Stimulants Bupropion+lisdexamfetamine

[blade69917]

So, its my first post so please excuse any newbie mistakes. Ive been prescribed 70mg lisdexamfetamine and 300mg bupropion XR and before that i was on 30mg Dexamphetamine with 300mg bupropion XR i had switched to the lisdexamfetamine because redosing was annoying and the constant comedowns and come ups made me unstable. Ever since i moved to lisdexamfetamine i feel like its made me fall into a mix of apathy and anger i wonder what the interaction is and pharmacodynamics is of these two, i noticed that the effect changed depending on which one i dosed first. If lets say i dose bupropion first i would do bupropion wait 1hr and then dose the lisdexamfetamine it would be a more smooth experience and if i were to dose the lisdexamfetamine wait 2 hours and then dose the bupropion i noticed it was more intense.

Im not trying to abuse these medications only understand them and their effects and side effects and such please do tell me what you think? Would the bupropion potentiate the lisdexamfetamine since its a potent cyp2d6 enzyme inhibitor or would it be blocking its effects partially? And the dosing times how is that affecting its effect? Or is it all in my head?

 

[plumbus-nine]

I got similar side effects from just bupropion and happen to think that it's a shitty compound because of first pass metabolism in men which converts it to hydroxynobupropion (I believe) which lacks any dopaminergic properties of the parent compound, it's falsely labelled a NDRI, it behaves like a pure NRI. Too much norepinephrine causes anger and apathy somehow. Did you ever recently try to take just 150mg or no bupropion? But I understand that the side effects occurred when you switched to lidexamph?

Btw, welcome to bluelight!

 

[blade69917]

I got similar side effects from just bupropion and happen to think that it's a shitty compound because of first pass metabolism in men which converts it to hydroxynobupropion (I believe) which lacks any dopaminergic properties of the parent compound, it's falsely labelled a NDRI, it behaves like a pure NRI. Too much norepinephrine causes anger and apathy somehow. Did you ever recently try to take just 150mg or no bupropion? But I understand that the side effects occurred when you switched to lidexamph?

Btw, welcome to bluelight!

Oke so i took bupropion for a year and a half or so before i started the dex/lisdex and i didn't have any of these side effects i actually became so much better mentally like 80% improvement in mood so idk maybe im a bit unique but this isnt because of the bupropion for me and id never stop taking bupropion cuz its a life saving medicine for me lol

 

[plumbus-nine]

Glad it works for you, then of course continue to use it! Did you try Concerta or Ritalin XR instead of the amphetamine? Maybe it would harmonize better with bupropion as it's a reuptake transporter agonist instead of a releaser.

 

[Dextro .45]

Yes, 300mg bupropion might be too much…..150mg XR Wellbutrin should be fine. You can dump Vyvanse 70mg capsule in bottle of water with juice, drink 3/4 of it in morning ……try lightening your current dose a touch

Adding natural supplements like Rodah Rosea (spell?) L-Theanine to balance mood…..Magnesium Bisglycinate 200mg after dinner before bed to relax, it actually works ….Valerian, etc

It’s not fun going through that rollercoaster of emotions…..try to balance and find a happy mediums

 

[plumbus-nine]

Adding natural supplements like Rodah Rosea (spell?) L-Theanine to balance mood…..Magnesium Bisglycinate 200mg after dinner before bed to relax, it actually works ….Valerian, etc

Rhodiola Rosea it worked exactly once for me but maybe it helps others. Magnesium is always a good supplement (but needs some time with daily dosing for to cumulate, it has a very long half life of more than a week) as is memantine, if you can get that (Indian online pharmacies are your friend). Memantine helps to smoothen both the effects and the after effects of stimulants. L-thenaine might be good as well if it works for you.

 

[Dextro .45]

Oh, ok...you're obviously no spring chicken lol

Sounds like you tested & tried
many alternative routes already

 

[blade69917]

Yes, 300mg bupropion might be too much…..150mg XR Wellbutrin should be fine. You can dump Vyvanse 70mg capsule in bottle of water with juice, drink 3/4 of it in morning ……try lightening your current dose a touch

Adding natural supplements like Rodah Rosea (spell?) L-Theanine to balance mood…..Magnesium Bisglycinate 200mg after dinner before bed to relax, it actually works ….Valerian, etc

It’s not fun going through that rollercoaster of emotions…..try to balance and find a happy mediums

300mg bupropion feels like too little and so does 70mg vyvanse, like i said on the other comment i had taken bupropion for a while on this dose before i started the lisdex and before the lisdex i was taking 30 to 40 mg dexedrine which was great but was too irregular because it was too short duration... 70mg lisdexamfetamine converts into 20-21mg Dexamphetamine, thing is the max prescribed dose of lisdexamfetamine is 70mg so i cant take more because i dont want to abuse my medications,


Sorry i might have worded this post wrong english isnt my first language what im trying to ask for is isnt necessarily advice on the dosing but more so the pharmacodynamics and interaction between these two and the effect of lisdexamfetamine/Dexamphetamine metabolism that bupropion has as a potent cyp2d6 enzyme inhibitor. Btw i did try ritalin and concerta in the past but never in combination with bupropion so idk abt all that but tbh im not rly willing to try it cuz i hated the abhorent comedowns

Do you have any advice on how i should reword the post idk if u can edit them but i seem to have made it seem as if i want dose advice im sorry

Ps. Ok i c u can edit them lol anyways also i take l theanine and magnesium as supplements yes helps a bit but idk abt rosah or whatever and valerian idk ive taken it in past but not in combo with these medications it made me mostly sleepy tired

 

[blade69917]

Glad it works for you, then of course continue to use it! Did you try Concerta or Ritalin XR instead of the amphetamine? Maybe it would harmonize better with bupropion as it's a reuptake transporter agonist instead of a releaser.

Ive not tried it in combo with bupropion but ive done it in past and found the comedown awful and the effect less than what i wanted but maybe i should try it idk in reluctant because of my past experiences with ritalin/concerta being negative

 

[Intel.imperitive]

Perscribed 70mg Lisdexamphetamine. Adding Bupropion in a month or two off-script.

 

[CFC]

For me bupropion has a mixed effect with lisdex, as in sometimes I believe I feel more stimulated and others less. Overall I found it a tolerable mix though (at 300mg + 70mg lisdex)

It's slightly different than mixing with, say, duloxetine (which occupies ~40% of NET), which clearly subjectively dulls the effect of lisdex, though moreso if taken about 1-2 hours before and noticeably less when taken after. So yeah, the time sequence in which you take them does appear to have an effect.

 

[d1nach]

I'm no doctor but if bupropion is a strong inhibitor of cyp2d6 p450 and amphetamine is metabolized by cyp2d6 and bupropion didn't cause aggression before it could be via cyp2d6 strong inhibition that Amhetamine could cause anger at lower then excepted results by changing things like it's peak levels and duration of effect and clearance ect

I have a family member who was hospitalized for psychosis , bizzare mood, thinking, anger, and self harm who was on among other things Vyvanse and bupropion (also prozac other strong inhibitor and strattera substrate) noone knows the cause that was just my idea
. It's possible but correlation doesn't equal causation and I just gave up trying to help cause people are gonna do what they want and it's not my life to live. If they want my opinion they can ask

 

[blade69917]

I'm no doctor but if bupropion is a strong inhibitor of cyp2d6 p450 and amphetamine is metabolized by cyp2d6 and bupropion didn't cause aggression before it could be via cyp2d6 strong inhibition that Amhetamine could cause anger at lower then excepted results by changing things like it's peak levels and duration of effect and clearance ect

I have a family member who was hospitalized for psychosis , bizzare mood, thinking, anger, and self harm who was on among other things Vyvanse and bupropion (also prozac other strong inhibitor and strattera substrate) noone knows the cause that was just my idea
. It's possible but correlation doesn't equal causation and I just gave up trying to help cause people are gonna do what they want and it's not my life to live. If they want my opinion they can ask

Hmm yes amphetamine has been known to increase anger and such by the way for me it is just like increased agitation i get ticked off more easily not like im punching or hurting anyone or anything its more like " NO UR WRONG CUZ OF THIS AND THAT AND THIS HOW CAN ANYONE BE SO STUPID" or like today i had someone who told me they would just abandon a person whos dying and asking for help just cuz they wouldn't wanna miss their train saying that its not their problem which made me angry more than it should have since its just a made up story and my response to them was "ur a fuckin sociopath im gonna tell myself ur trolling cuz i refuse to believe you would just abandon someone in need whos literally dying just cuz u dont wanna wait a extra hour for ur train when u dont even have anywhere to be" also the medication effect changes depending on the timing if i dose the amphetamine first and then wait 2 hrs and then dose bupropion i feel more euphoric sorta like i still feel focused and the same like snger issues come by but i feel a slight euphoria as if i was a bit in love or like excited for something idk anyways im just wondering what you think that would mean like is it because the enzyme is inhibited by the lisdexamfetamine/dexamphetamine through which the bupropion is potentiated?

 

[blade69917]

For me bupropion has a mixed effect with lisdex, as in sometimes I believe I feel more stimulated and others less. Overall I found it a tolerable mix though (at 300mg + 70mg lisdex)

It's slightly different than mixing with, say, duloxetine (which occupies ~40% of NET), which clearly subjectively dulls the effect of lisdex, though moreso if taken about 1-2 hours before and noticeably less when taken after. So yeah, the time sequence in which you take them does appear to have an effect.

Whenever i take the lisdex first i feel more euphoric/lovey dovey i take the lisdex and wait 2 hrs or so and then take the bupropion do you think that the cyp2d6 enzyme is being inhibited by the lisdex through which the bupropion is potentiated? And we are taking the same doses lol i just feel that the lisdex is too little before the lisdex i was taking 30-40mg dexedrine and 70mg lisdex is equal to 20-21mg dexedrine so its lower +more spread out but i cant really adjust the dose because i dont wanna abuse do you have any opinion on the pharmacodynamics and interaction between these two substances and the enzyme?

 

[d1nach]

In my experience intense love and intense anger feel very similar. Sweaty palms weak knees nauseous flushing intense focus.

Anyway I'm not a doctor but I am pretty sure it is kinda straightforward bupropion is the enzyme INHIBITOR amphetamine is metabolized by the enzyme bupropion inhibits.

Could bupropion be inhibiting itself then increasing the amount of bupropion. Maybe idk.

Could that lead to bupropion causing side effects maybe idk

Could amphetamine be a cyp2d6 inhibitor maybe idk. Then it depends on how strong.

I'd think of this like horse gambling

Bupropion I think has a enormous amount of info and is even is being investigated to be combined with dxm specifically for its ability to Inhibit cyp2d6 and that it's not only a inhibitor but a strong inhibitor.

Therefore, I would bet on mostly the Wellbutrin inhibiting cyp2d6 altering amphetamine metabolism.

 

[CFC]

i was taking 30-40mg dexedrine and 70mg lisdex is equal to 20-21mg dexedrine so its lower +more spread out

This is true, but bioavailability of lisdex is nearly 100% whereas dexedrine can vary wildly but probably averages 60% or so for most. So the effective dose is actually approximately similar.

As for enzyme inhibition, I don't personally think that'll play much of a role in modifying subjective effects at therapeutic doses as amphetamine isn't heavily reliant on enzymatic decomposition.

As for predicting or (reliably) scientifically explaining other effects, I don't honestly think anyone can do much more than speculate or make best guesses. There's not a huge amount of literature on the interaction (very little in humans, particularly), and stimulants are hella complex in their various effects individually (with very little understanding of how those measured effects actually impart subjective experiences to users). So mixing them inserts even more uncontrollable variables.

Edit: maybe have a read of this recent paper on the pharmacology of stimulants (it's free). Doesn't really talk about interactions, but you get an idea of the complexity, and that's just what we know (...as ever, half the picture probably hasn't even been identified yet)

https://accp1.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jcph.1918

 

[Intel.imperitive]

Indeed Bupropion in an inhibator of cyp2d6, and enzyme that metabolised lisdexamphetamine, making it more powerful since its in your blood for longer