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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Diphenhydramine Low Dose (100-200mg) How Much Should I Worry About Torsade de Pointes (QT-elongation) using low doses of DPH?

Mayo_Tree

Mayo_Tree

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Joined
Aug 4, 2022
Messages
103
So that's my question. I've found low doses of DPH (100-200mg) to be therapeutic, not altogether unenjoyable, and perhaps useful for its SSRI effects as a mood stabilizer.

Using a dose of, say 200mg twice a day (morning and evening) as needed (i.e., not daily, but every few days), how much do I have to worry about QT-Elongation of heart rhythm, leading to Torsades de Pointes and heart failure?

I researched DPH a lot before ever taking it, and I'm surprised to see this information about Torsades de Pointes, I had neer seen it before in my research.

I was under the impression that people use Benadryl every day sometimes, whether for allergies, or for its deleriant effects, sometimes several times a week/month, and that it was generally safe, albeit unpleasant most of the time.

People sometimes use it a lot, right? At different doses. So, how much does one really have to worry about heart failure by using therapeutic doses that are rather low, between 100-200mg?

Can anyone elaborate on this? I'd like to be able to use it safely, but how dangerous is it really at those lower dose ranges?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

EDIT: I know DXM is better, and that's usually my go-to, but where I live it has become scarce. DPH, however, is widely available.
 
It sounds like I tried using dph for similar reasons.

Go Google erowid experience vault diphenhydramine

I think your on the edge of anticholinergic delirium from a muscarinic acetylcholine receptor blockade
 
Snafu in the Void said:
The absolute maximum therapeutic dose is 100mg. You should not exceed that. You really shouldn't be self medicating with DPH for anything other than sleep or allergies, you're playing with fire.
Click to expand...
It's strange, I hear what you're saying, but still.... I know DPH has a bad reputation anyway, but people seem to take it often enough even in huge doses (being stupid) for the deleriant effects. It's strange that for so long the general feedback was just that it's a shitty drug and a dirty high (unpleasant), but now I'm hearing that it's actually dangerous af (seems to be what I'm hearing now).

So, it's absolutely dangerous at levels of 200-300mg? Even that is a generally low dose compared to what people take for delerium (600-800mg), which I agree is way too much.

I guess I'm just surprised that it's that dangerous at such low doses, and people sort of take it rather frequently. Even people who hate it tend to take it once in a while for this and that.

I'm amazed that it's that dangerous at low doses, if that's really true. What a shitty substance then. And no DXM in sight, it's a tragedy.

Why can't there just be a damn OTC med that is good for something? Can't use anything it seems, and doctors don't help. They don't want you "being high," they just want you functional enough to contribute to their bullshit society.

Excuse my language please, forgive me, there's a reason I'm seeking a drug to use therapeutically, and I'm sad that DPH can't be used, because it's so prevalent.

Only other med I have is Methocarbamol (Robax) w/ Ibuprofen, and I hear that's useless too.

Anyways, thanks for your replies guys. Much love. Sorry for the rant, but it pisses me off.
 
d1nach said:
It sounds like I tried using dph for similar reasons.

Go Google erowid experience vault diphenhydramine

I think your on the edge of anticholinergic delirium from a muscarinic acetylcholine receptor blockade
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've done extensive erowid research on DPH long before I ever tried it. So, I knew what to expect in terms of effects.

But all of this "you're risking your life by even taking it" sort of thing is new to me. I've never heard that type of thing about it before, and it seems that's what people are saying now. Like it's poison or something.

And yet.... I'm under the impression that people use it quite often (enough), and at much higher doses.

So.... I guess I'm confused, I'm not sure what to do or think. The crappy thing is, I have a LOT if it now.

Btw, I'm not on it today, I'm on Lyrica. And I'm hardly in delerium, nothing I've said sounds like I'm in a delerium, lol. :/
 
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Forever Changes said:
Why? What happens if you take too much DPH?
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High doses of DPH put you in straight-up delerium. It's unpleasant, and you'll feel like you weigh 500 pounds, with dry-mouth that never goes away.
You'll hallucinate random things, talk to chairs that disappear, friends that aren't there, spiderwebs, and spiders, and worms... things like that.

The general consensus is that it's a terrible trip, and yet..... people still tend to do it quite often, from what I hear.

I can't recommend taking it in high doses. It seems to synergize well with DXM. The combination takes away the unpleasant effects of the DPH, or counter them.

A few nights ago I was on DXM, and added 100mg DPH at night, and it was very pleasant. Very calming.

Unfortunately, good times are rare with DPH alone. It's elusive, but at lower doses it's not that bad.

I'm really surprised people are taking the stand that even lower doses are basically a death-sentence waiting to happen. Seems odd.
 
Mayo_Tree said:
The general consensus is that it's a terrible trip, and yet..... people still tend to do it quite often, from what I hear.
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No. This may be some "internet illusion". Just because it has become a meme doesn't mean it's an acceptable thing for you to experiment with.

Most people, like myself, try it once as a reckless and uninformed teenager, and then never do it again. I have almost never heard of any sane person who takes high doses and then willingly does it again.

You might be confusing the amount of available trip reports or it's modern meme status as viability of anything other than its intended prescribed use.

Again, you should NOT be venturing out using this drug as anything more than it's intended purpose in it's intended doses.

Please, do yourself a favor and explore some other drug or go see a shrink.

Forever Changes said:
Why? What happens if you take too much DPH?
Click to expand...
Google anticholinergic toxicity. It's pretty bad.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
No. This may be some "internet illusion".

Most people, like myself, try it once as a reckless and uninformed teenager, and then never do it again. I have almost never heard of any sane person who takes high doses and then willingly does it again.

You might be confusing the amount of available trip reports or it's modern meme status as viability of anything other than its intended prescribed use.

Again, you should NOT be venturing out using this drug as anything more than it's intended purpose in it's intended doses.

Please, do yourself a favor and explore some other drug or go see a shrink.


Google anticholinergic toxicity. It's pretty bad.
Click to expand...

It's possible, perhaps I'm misinterpreting what people say. But I've personally known people who used it quite often in high doses. One of my friends walked off a building and broke both his legs whilst on DPH. Obviously, it was stupid for him to be on a roof in the first place, I don't know what he was thinking.

Yes, perhaps I'm just confusing the many trip reports, but there are so many it leads one to believe that people keep doing it in spite of the fact that they don't like it, and know it's crappy.

The real problem is its availability. Since it actually DOES help at low doses, it's a real shame that it's apparently a time-bomb waiting to explode, from what you're saying.

I'm definitely open to trying other substances, but there are none available. I may have the opportunity to se a shrink, but I have zero hope that he's going to give me anything other than stupid antidepressants and antipsychotics (which, I may add, are also problematic in the area of anticholinergic toxicity, from what I've just read on the topic; they are included in the list of substances which can lead to such toxicity).

I'd really just like to try something like Memantine, or even Baclofen. But, I don't have any real hope of ever getting anything interesting that will actually help.

Honestly, this news depresses me. I've wasted money on DPH, and I can't even use it? Pff.... what a rip-off, seriously.

@Snafu in the Void are there any other OTC antihistamines which would be safer to explore? All I see are Reactine, Allegra, Claritin, Loratadine, etc. Are any of those any good at therapeutic doses? Are they worth trying?
 
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Mayo_Tree said:
@Snafu in the Void are there any other OTC antihistamines which would be safer to explore? All I see are Reactine, Allegra, Claritin, Loratadine, etc. Are any of those any good at therapeutic doses? Are they worth trying?
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No. You shouldn't do any OTC medications in the US. Antihistamines have zero psychiatric value.......

Go get some weed or alcohol. Go to a headshop. Buy some kratom. Do anything except DPH.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
No. You shouldn't do any OTC medications in the US. Antihistamines have zero psychiatric value.......

Go get some weed or alcohol. Go to a headshop. Buy some kratom. Do anything except DPH.
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See, that's the thing... I'm not in the US. All the other antihistamines are available, Cetrizine, Desloratadine, Fexofenadine, etc. But I'm not sure what any of those will do at doses of 100mg, per say.

And (aarrggh!) I hate it when people say "just do weed and/or alcohol," I always get that response, and I always have to go into the following spiel:

I can't take alcohol because it exacerbates my anxiety (and turns me into even more of an asshole than I am already), and I can't "just smoke weed" because it triggers panic attacks.

Believe me, if it were that simple, I would simply do that. I'm not a total idiot, I just can't use what everyone else uses normally with success.

Hence my predicament. Fvck. Everybody always says that. If it were that easy, I wouldn't be writing this.
 
Forever Changes said:
Damn that doesn't sound pleasant. I one took a little too much Quetiapine and got an unpleasant dissociative feeling
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Yeah, it's definitely a good idea to avoid toxicity (obviously), but I still can't believe DPH is useless at low doses.

Here's an article I just found seems to go along with my understanding that DPH use is much more common than people think:
melmagazine.com

The Delirious Cult of Recreational Benadryl Users

On a sunny spring day in 2019, 16-year-old Gabby returned home from the Chicago fast food restaurant where she worked to find her house empty...
melmagazine.com melmagazine.com
 
Forever Changes said:
Damn that doesn't sound pleasant. I one took a little too much Quetiapine and got an unpleasant dissociative feeling
Click to expand...
Yeah, I tolerate most APs well, quetiapine is the outlier, even low doses give me horrible side effects due to its propensity for anticholinergic effects at <=100mg doses.
 
Mayo_Tree said:
Yeah, I've done extensive erowid research on DPH long before I ever tried it. So, I knew what to expect in terms of effects.

But all of this "you're risking your life by even taking it" sort of thing is new to me. I've never heard that type of thing about it before, and it seems that's what people are saying now. Like it's poison or something.

And yet.... I'm under the impression that people use it quite often (enough), and at much higher doses.

So.... I guess I'm confused, I'm not sure what to do or think. The crappy thing is, I have a LOT if it now.

Btw, I'm not on it today, I'm on Lyrica. And I'm hardly in delerium, nothing I've said sounds like I'm in a delerium, lol. :/
Click to expand...

I actually like Lyrica/Pregabalin and find it recreational, although the tolerance is a bitch.

The majority of people seem to say that delerium is a bad experience... it's not something I would seek. What exactly are you after? Anything that's OTC is not going to have much, if any recreational value
 
Snafu in the Void said:
Yeah, I tolerate most APs well, quetiapine is the outlier, even low doses give me horrible side effects due to its propensity for anticholinergic effects at <=100mg doses.
Click to expand...
I actually have loads of Quetiapine, but I don't enjoy the feeling at all. I use it only once in a while, if I need to sleep, for example. Not much else.

Years ago, I was prescribed 300mgs Quetiapine. All it did was put me to sleep, and if I tried to stay awake, it was like a dysphoric body-buzz. So I usually just went to sleep on it.
It made me hallucinate though, a few times when I took 300mgs after being up for a day or two on Methylphenidate or Amphetamines. Saw weird swirly things like fireballs on the door, and ceiling fans that weren't there. Thought someone was always entering the room where I was laying down to sleep.

I'd say DPH is much more useful and recreational than Quetiapine.
 
Forever Changes said:
I actually like Lyrica/Pregabalin and find it recreational, although the tolerance is a bitch.

The majority of people seem to say that delerium is a bad experience... it's not something I would seek. What exactly are you after? Anything that's OTC is not going to have much, if any recreational value
Click to expand...
Myself, I'm after heavy sedation, a little bit of hallucinations are acceptable, and I'm after mood-stabilization. DXM has an SNRI effect which has been good for me, and since DPH has an SSRI effect, I thought I could perhaps use it to my advantage if I keep the dosage low.

I'm doing all this in the interim period, since I am going to see a psych doctor at some point, I'm using what I can in the meantime to remain stable. That's pretty much it.
 
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