(EPT/50 mg) - First Time - Total Clarity

[Kaleida]

This was my first experience with EPT, and it was the third in a progression of smoked base tryptamine experiences I had had over a short time period, starting with MET and then MALT before reaching this. I began this short experiment partially as a way of testing whether these tryptamines would produce only limited amounts of tolerance alike DMT, but also just because I have recently started to explore more with base tryptamines in general and have really been starting to fall in love with them, and thus I am looking for any excuse to take them on a more regular basis. It does appear to me so far with these experiments that they don't build tolerance too quickly, but I will say that my instinct was that there was just the slightest effect this time, so in the future I think I will intend to put at least a week between all of my smoked base tryptamine experiences.

But, as to the current experience.... I did not really have a whole lot of expectations going into this trip though I did have a lot of questions, as I have worked a good number of times with closely related molecules like 4-HO-EPT but not with the quite well-known DPT which I have not yet gotten to try myself, but have heard much about, especially with regards to its uniqueness. I felt a slight anxiety as usual when trying a new substance, but really wasn't too worried at this point as nothing I had read about this molecule suggested to me that it would be overly difficult to handle and I had already been on a roll with these base tryptamines and was finding them to be quite easy to handle overall honestly despite their quite powerful hallucinogenic effects, so deciding to go for something I was a bit more confident would give me strong effects based on my recent experiments I jumped in with 50 mg, layered into a bowl of cannabis and smoked through a bong.

My previous experience with psychedelics includes DMT, MET, MPT, MiPT, DiPT, MALT, DALT, Psilocybe cubensis, 4-HO-MET, 4-HO-DET, 4-HO-MPT, 4-HO-EPT, 4-HO-DPT, 4-HO-MiPT, 4-HO-DiPT, 4-HO-McPT, 4-AcO-DMT, 4-AcO-MET, 4-AcO-DET, 4-AcO-MALT, 4-AcO-DALT, 5-HO-DMT, 5-MeO-MiPT, 5-MeO-EiPT, 5-MeO-DALT, Ipomoea tricolor, Argyreia nervosa, LSD, ETH-LAD, AL-LAD, 2C-B, 2C-I, DOC, and MDMA. My most recent trip was three days before this on 50 mg of MALT.

T-0:45 - At this point I took 200 mg of magnesium glycinate and 1800 mg of Maeng Da Red kratom, enough to give me a mild analgesic effect but no high, in preparation for the trip. I had done this before my experience on MALT as well to take care of a headache, which I also had this time around, and it went pretty smoothly without seemingly altering the character of the trip or actually masking the bodily effects of the drug or anything. It's still not something I would intend to do regularly, but these couples times I felt it necessary because the decisions to trip were somewhat spontaneous and only came after I had been smoking some cannabis during the day, which I usually don't do before tripping as it does build up some head and neck tension for me.

T+0:00 - I leaned back in my recliner in my living room and smoked the bowl of cannabis and 50 mg of EPT over the course of three or four big hits. After my recent experiences on MET and MALT and just what I had experienced from smoking base tryptamines in general, my immediate reaction was to glance around looking for the wall of sensory visual overload to slam into me, but I quickly found that, entirely unlike with the others, I was able to finish smoking and place the bong down on the table before anything serious ever started to develop. The open eye visuals that did eventually come did have a typical base tryptamine sort of feel to them, especially alike the shadowy designs that I had gotten from MALT, but they were less present than they would be on most tryptamines of this class though not most psychedelics in general, and they were slower and significantly less overwhelming feeling. In fact, by far one of the most obvious things about this experience to me at this point was that there was absolutely no emotional vibe of coming up on a psychedelic at all, no anxious or excited feeling or confusion or anything of the sort, just total clarity and practically sobriety. It has been said in one of the few trip reports about EPT already in existence so far that this molecule can be significantly more lucid than other powerful psychedelics often considered to be such, such as 4-HO-MET and AL-LAD; in my experience I can now say this seems absolutely true, as this was really quite possibly the most lucid and grounded I've ever been during any psychedelic state that was clearly this powerful, even though I had only started to see it really develop so far.

After taking a moment to be fully amazed by the fact that this strong trip had just come up with absolutely no struggle or fanfare like it was nothing and the realization that there was never going to be any rush of dissociation that just pushed me into the peak or anything, I leaned back to close my eyes and allow the drug to take over myself. As with most base tryptamines I've tried, this is definitely where the real show was.... It is difficult to recall it all now in vivid detail unfortunately as usual, but what I can remember really stands out, especially involving highly detailed, large, and repeated erotic human images and massive, extremely intricate, spinning, rainbow geometric designs and such, hard to describe on a level that really does it justice with this short description but entirely on the level of detail and intensity that I would expected from any of these other molecules I've been working with like MET and MALT. Notably, however, the superficial style of hallucinations overall was quite different from those, as with the emotional vibe of the trip, and most heavily I would say it related to molecules like ETH-LAD and 4-HO-DPT in a visionary sense but to 4-HO-EPT and especially 4-HO-DPT particularly in terms of the more geometric hallucinations, though in my personal opinion at least based on my own experience it combined these properties in such a way and at such a level of intensity that it completely outdid all of my experiences on these other molecules so far, I really found EPT's hallucinogenic effects to incredibly hedonistic and satisfying, especially again with how clear and grounded I felt. It still wasn't completely on the level of anything totally mind-blowing this time around, but it sure seemed to have the potential to reach a breakthrough-style point like that just like any of these other molecules I've tried.

Anyway, once I had gotten my fill of the closed eye realm and began to accept that the absolutely stunning geometries filled with sacred meaning were finally starting to really fade, I opened my eyes and sat up slightly to gaze around the room again. The visuals still had a very shadowy and lacking in color style to them, and were certainly less intense or intricate still than those of DMT, MET, MPT, or MALT, but still more complex than I've gotten so far on MiPT, DiPT, or DALT, and definitely still comparable in strength to most psychedelics I've taken in general, again particularly at this point very much resembling 4-HO-DET though a bit more complex and a bit less colorful. I also began feeling a body vibration picking up at this point, though, fascinatingly, whereas I normally dislike the vibrating body feeling literally any time I have gotten it on any other tryptamine, I actually found the sensation incredibly enjoyable and almost erotic this time around like I have heard others describe on DPT before, and as I put on some Shpongle to really enjoy the vibe I was even purposefully letting my limbs spasm more as the energy would grow and shift around me body, and this spasming never at any point felt in any way threatening, just like an unusual instinct. As I allowed this sensation to occur I also noticed that there was a steadily growing body high presenting itself in general as well, and simultaneously began to realize that until that point I actually felt somewhat anesthetized, a genuine numb feeling that was particularly noticeable in my face, which was not unpleasant but I was definitely enjoying the growing body high more.

T+0:18 - This was the first time I looked at my phone again after smoking, noting that the anesthetic feeling was fading and the visuals were still strong but definitely starting to become less present now. Over the next few minutes I noted that I was starting to enter a state very much alike the post-peak stage of 4-HO-EPT where I felt simultaneously stimulated and sedated both in good ways, and over the next few minutes after that the latter had developed along with a peaceful buzzing body sensation to the point that I wrote down a note describing it as a narcotic bliss. However, despite that narcotic feeling I also felt increasingly compelled to get up and let out the energy inside me, so I began slowly and smoothly dancing to the music while enjoying the incredible contentment I was feeling, which notably still did not have any manic euphoria alike I would expect from something like 4-HO-MET, it was still totally grounded. I did this for about an hour, until most of these feelings had started to fade a bit more fully and the lingering sedation was winning out over the lingering stimulation again.

T+1:26 - At this point the remaining visuals have all but disappeared and there is not much remaining other than a little bit of a still tingly buzz and a slight increase in music appreciation. I felt good, and I could describe a little more of my day but there really wasn't much more exciting to say, this was pretty much the end of the experience other than that the lingering good feelings slowly tapered off before fully vanishing at some point throughout the day.

In conclusion, I must say that I was extremely impressed by my first experience with EPT, and I spent the whole rest of the day thinking back on it and appreciating it and really letting that conclusion sink in. The thing about my recent experimentation with base tryptamines is that one of the reasons I am particularly drawn to them is that as of late I have been feeling more of a desire to take psychedelics which are indeed extremely hallucinogenic despite being quite lucid and easy to handle as my most preferred form of psychedelic recreation, as opposed to going for the really heavily psychological and perspective-shattering experiences that I used to seek out more when I was younger and newer to tripping, and while certainly not an inflexible rule, it did seem to me that the base tryptamines in general seemed to be a bit better set up for this hard but smooth tripping than the 4-substituted tryptamines I had traditionally loved so much, which for me more often make great mental trips instead. I was already very much enjoying my experimentation with these tryptamines like MET and MALT for this reason because I do find them to be at least more lucid despite being very visual, but this really took it up to the next level.... At this point, based on how I've been slowing down with actually collecting new psychedelic molecules and just how extreme of an example of this this drug has been for me, I'm honestly not sure if I'll ever find a psychedelic now that will beat EPT for me in terms of being as clearheaded as possible for as strong of hallucinations as possible, so that's obviously quite meaningful for me and gives me a lot of appreciation for and excitement about exploring this molecule in the future....

For now though, that is pretty much all of the detail I will be able to give, so I shall end this here. I am definitely highly looking forward to contributing further to the general knowledge on EPT though, and will eagerly share more as soon as I have more to tell!

substancecode_ept
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exptype_glowing

 

[TheAppleCore]

It has been said in one of the few trip reports about EPT already in existence so far that this molecule can be significantly more lucid than other powerful psychedelics often considered to be such, such as 4-HO-MET and AL-LAD; in my experience I can now say this seems absolutely true, as this was really quite possibly the most lucid and grounded I've ever been during any psychedelic state that was clearly this powerful, even though I had only started to see it really develop so far.

I'd like to point out that EPT neatly lies on the same latitude in your tryptamine "bulk" scale as 4-HO-DET and 4-HO-MPT, which are two of the most lucid and grounded of the psilocin family. You know, I'm tempted to suggest that all of these substances manage to hit a level of dissociative/narcotic effect which perfectly synergizes with the psychedelic headspace such that that it's just enough to cancel out any of the overwhelming stimulation, without going so far as something like DPT or 4-HO-DPT, wherein the narcosis becomes so strong that it's a new high of its own rather than simply filing the rough edges off the psychedelia. Remember when you told me that you felt LSD more or less ranked on the level of 4-HO-DET and 4-HO-MPT on that scale? Well, in light of this theory, that makes a whole lot of sense to me, since I also feel that LSD has a remarkable quality of perfectly balancing out its own psychedelia with just enough counter-dissociation to make it feel very lucid and almost sober in certain ways, especially at the right dosage, despite being an incredibly powerful psychedelic. Damn, that's pretty interesting... it really puts EPT in a special category.

I was even purposefully letting my limbs spasm more as the energy would grow and shift around me body, and this spasming never at any point felt in any way threatening, just like an unusual instinct.

Haha, I love the description of the spasming as an "unusual instinct", and I know exactly what you mean.

Thanks for sharing this insightful report... I hope to join you in EPT-land soon!

 

[Kaleida]

I'd like to point out that EPT neatly lies on the same latitude in your tryptamine "bulk" scale as 4-HO-DET and 4-HO-MPT, which are two of the most lucid and grounded of the psilocin family. You know, I'm tempted to suggest that all of these substances manage to hit a level of dissociative/narcotic effect which perfectly synergizes with the psychedelic headspace such that that it's just enough to cancel out any of the overwhelming stimulation, without going so far as something like DPT or 4-HO-DPT, wherein the narcosis becomes so strong that it's a new high of its own rather than simply filing the rough edges off the psychedelia. Remember when you told me that you felt LSD more or less ranked on the level of 4-HO-DET and 4-HO-MPT on that scale? Well, in light of this theory, that makes a whole lot of sense to me, since I also feel that LSD has a remarkable quality of perfectly balancing out its own psychedelia with just enough counter-dissociation to make it feel very lucid and almost sober in certain ways, especially at the right dosage, despite being an incredibly powerful psychedelic. Damn, that's pretty interesting... it really puts EPT in a special category.

Yes indeed you are right, I do consider EPT to line up with 4-HO-MPT and 4-HO-DET. The overlaps were quite clear to me throughout the experience, at least as much as any other predicted pairs by that scale. However, while I do enjoy your enthusiasm, I must say that some of your descriptions here of these substances don't really match up with my own, in ways that are pretty crucial for your theory.

First of all, for me 4-HO-MPT is actually one of the most heavily mental of the 4-substituted tryptamines, perhaps the most of all even though the head trip can be more short-lived than some like 4-HO-MiPT. Similarly, LSD for me is so mental that I currently consider it to be my most disorienting psychedelic and purposefully avoid it but for really heavy trips for that reason, and this property is actually specifically one of the things that makes 4-HO-MPT so similar to LSD for me, their head trips are similar in both strength and style. 4-HO-DET I have not gotten quite so far out on in the exact same way, but I also haven't dosed as high with it as with 4-HO-MPT, and despite that I have notably already experienced moments of significant disorientation while peaking on lower doses of it, and did have all those completely absurd trippy thoughts and psychotic perceptions like entities watching me after smoking 4-AcO-DET. Compare all this to 4-HO-MET, which I took up to the same highest dose as 4-HO-MPT which was enough to get fully integrated eyes open living hallucinations from and still had absolutely no confusion or disorientation whatsoever, and I really don't consider those others particularly lucid at all, at least as far as psychedelics go.

Second, while I would agree that 4-HO-DET is indeed remarkably emotionally grounded for me, especially for the head trip it produces, 4-HO-MPT and LSD both readily have me bouncing off the walls similarly to things like 4-HO-MET and 4-HO-MiPT to varying extents, and especially at higher doses that would compare to this EPT trip hallucinogenically, and honestly I just don't really have that level of experience with 4-HO-DET to speak from yet, though it really does feel pretty neutral for me overall. 4-HO-MPT and LSD definitely do not though, there's nothing grounded or sober feeling about them for me at a full dose, they make me feel quite high.

And third, while I do find most indole psychedelics to produce some level of narcotic effect, the amount of I got from EPT has definitely never been present for me with LSD, 4-HO-MPT, or 4-HO-DET; to the contrary, I find these molecules to all be quite stimulating most of the time, and have gone so far as to describe 4-HO-MPT as the cocaine of psychedelics in the moment. I also feel the need to point out that I could feel some stimulation through the EPT narcosis, just like how I feel some narcotic effects through the stimulation of the other psychedelics, and in general I'm personally tempted to believe that these effects simply stack on top of each other, not canceling each other out.

Here are my own thoughts on the discrepancies.... Without going into the reasoning why, I suspect that EPT falls into a spectrum, completely separate from the bulk scale, of indole psychedelics that specifically have much higher 5-HT1A receptor activity than the rest of the typical indole psychedelics, which, based on what I suspect so far, I think would include any indoles whose tails are comprised exclusively of at least one propyl, allyl, or lysergamide backbone aside another propyl, another allyl, or an ethyl. So far, of the psychedelics I have personally used to significant effect, this would include EPT, 4-HO-EPT, 4-HO-DPT, 4-AcO-DALT, ETH-LAD, and AL-LAD, and, as of yet, all of these psychedelics have been specifically connected for me by varying levels of this strong narcotic effect, most easily recognizable by the enhanced sedation compared to stimulation and the significant reduction in or lack of the usual psychedelic comeup anxiety, whereas no other psychedelic I've taken so far have produced the exact same kind of feeling or trip style. 5-HT1A receptors are specifically known to produce things like analgesic and anxiolytic effects when strongly activated, so this activity would theoretically be the reason for both the narcotic effects and alteration of the cognitive and emotional experience of these psychedelics. On the other hand, I have some suspicion that the grounded nature of the EPT experience shared with 4-HO-DET but not so much 4-HO-MPT and LSD for me may simply come from the fact that EPT and 4-HO-DET both lack the methyl group the other two have, which in my experience tends to cause some reduction in both visual and manic emotional effects, and I would guess that the EPT might also just gain some extra clarity and lack of stimulation compared to the others overall simply because these are more typical base tryptamine qualities in my experience so far.

So, that all being said, again I do definitely think this sort of logic still holds up and that there was some overlap between EPT, 4-HO-MPT, and 4-HO-DET, but I'm definitely still in the process of really trying to grasp it all myself, as it all seems to be very complex.... From the amount of versatility I have seen from different molecules that would line up like that I've become pretty much convinced that most of these "contextual" effects of psychedelics like stimulation, narcosis, and emotionality are really easily modifiable by different structural relationships and really not rigidly bound to subgroups like this, and that it's mainly the directly psychedelic effects like the simplistic and complex hallucinations that pretty consistently fall into these structural patterns, but at the same time it's very clear that the overlap goes beyond "just" the hallucinations for me, it just starts getting into very abstract territory.... In my experience, similar types of psychedelic hallucinations, regardless of the substance they occur on, tend to provoke similar types of synesthetic, dissociative, delirious, and other unusual phenomena, which I think is quite fascinating especially now that we have research showing that the visuals of psychedelics, or at least LSD, produce a hyperconnected resting brain state with practically everything leading back to the primary visual cortex; I wonder, given that individual psychedelics do consistently produce generally the same sorts of visual effects when taken over and over again but different sorts from an entirely separate psychedelic, could that suggest that each psychedelic molecule produces its own unique pattern of activation in the visual cortex, and, theoretically, therefore also a unique pattern of increased communication to the entire rest of the brain? That could be a plausible explanation for why similar visuals are capable of similarly exciting remote parts of the brain in totally unusual ways, and these tryptamines operating on this scale could be largely connected via this mechanism....

In any case, those are my thoughts on the matter. The important point is, with regards to figuring out how to treat EPT in relation to all those contextual effects, I wouldn't really necessarily group it in with 4-HO-MPT, 4-HO-DET, and LSD personally, it's pretty distinct... but in terms of the more abstract, superficial but also deep nature of the truly psychedelic effects, I would definitely group them together, and that's certainly very strongly contributing to my appreciation of EPT at the moment.

Haha, I love the description of the spasming as an "unusual instinct", and I know exactly what you mean.

Thanks for sharing this insightful report... I hope to join you in EPT-land soon!

Hehe, I'm glad you can relate. And you're quite welcome, glad you enjoyed it! I'll be eagerly waiting for you to arrive. :D

 

[Xorkoth]

I can really see the appeal for a light, grounded, easy to handle strong tryptamine. I have to say though that for me, the mental aspect, where if I have visuals the visuals pull me into a unique or self-reflective or transcendental space, is very important when considering whether a psychedelic is among my favorites. As you were describing the effects but before you gave your feelings on how much you loved it, I was thinking you were gonna conclude that it was good and fun but not one of the best. So either we're coming from different places on what constitutes an amazing psychedelic, or I'm misinterpreting parts of your TR somewhat. But I guess there's only one way to find out, I've gotta go there myself. If only there weren't SO many and they weren't all quite expensive! Anyway though I've got DiPT, MiPT, MPT, and DPT in terms of base tryptamines to explore. Maybe next I'll try smoking MPT. I really enjoyed 4-HO-MPT.

Thanks, as always, for your valuable contributions.

 

[Kaleida]

Well, I definitely love a good mental trip, don't get me wrong. Probably my favorite thing of all about psychedelics is specifically their versatility.... My collection of favorite molecules isn't defined by a single spectrum of activity, it's simply a group of tools that I find to be the most superior for fulfilling different purposes in my life. Sometimes that could include psychedelics that are highly mental for me, sometimes it could include psychedelics that are lucid but highly emotional, sometimes it could include psychedelics that are completely grounded, and anything else you could possibly think of.... I'm not picky, I've got a lot of room in my heart for these wonderful molecules.

That being said... hallucinating is pretty much my recreational passion, and psychedelic hallucinations are my favorite kind by far; psychedelics are practically the only drugs I even care about anymore and a big part of that is their hallucinogenic effects. There are no kind I've found yet that don't fascinate and captivate me, from the most modest geometric designs to the most mind-blowing visionary masterpieces to the hallucinations that are so intense they become dissociating or delirious in their own right, and as a result of this having the ability to regularly and readily produce intense hallucinogenic effects has pretty much become the most key requirement for a psychedelic to be placed on my list of true favorites, so I suppose we may be coming from different places there after all. EPT was definitely fantastic at scratching that itch for me too.... There's no question at all about whether or not it's got that part down for me.

That ALSO being said... I wouldn't totally count out EPT yet for other purposes either. Being lucid and emotionally grounded doesn't mean that nothing else at all was going on.... It did still have that totally blissful and satisfied body feeling that certain psychedelics do combined with the general psychedelic clean CNS stimulant effect, both of which combined to encourage a good amount of introspective thoughts and just putting me in a better mood in general, and ever since the trip I have also felt a pretty noticeable antidepressant effect alike what I get with DMT and other base tryptamines, I feel very refreshed and positive and naturally energetic. So, it's not like there aren't still other good qualities to the experience, which combine with the great visuals and factors like a lack of meaningful body load to make me consider placing it high on my list of favorites overall, more than just the hallucinations alone would. Nonetheless, as of late as I said I am starting to feel more satisfied with the heavy mental tripping that I used to pursue more and am really beginning to love being able to hallucinate so wildly and have everything be so clear at the same time, things like 4-HO-MET and AL-LAD in particular have really been helping me come around to that mindset, so even though I do have plenty of very mental psychedelics I would call favorites, it is significant to me that EPT was very clear with respect to me potentially placing it even higher than any of them among my preferences.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on that! I can certainly relate though, there's always another great new drug to try, it's never enough haha. I'd say that's a pretty good selection to work with so far though, at least based on my low level of experience. I'm still very curious to know what you'll think of a better and fuller MiPT trip as that one definitely threatens to be one of my top favorites so far too, and MPT I'm definitely eager to hear your reaction to since you also seem to enjoy 4-HO-MPT like I do more so than some others here. It was really freaking intense for me my one time with it so far, still more clearheaded than many 4-substituted tryptamines but very dissociative and rushy in a DMT-like way, plus probably the best and strongest open eye visuals of all the synthetic base tryptamines I've used so far along with some really cool closed eye ones too, a lot of both DMT-like and LSD-like themes mixed in for me, and some of the uniquest extremely intense geometry I've seen.... Definitely let us know how it goes when you get around to it! :D

And once again you're very welcome, happy to share.

 

[Xorkoth]

Thanks for the clarification. I've got a night home alone, I am thinking I might try smoking MPT or MiPT. Probably MPT. I did take DOC yesterday, but I'm just looking to get my toes wet since I've only ever smoked DMT as far as base tryptamines go and not many times on that either.

 

[Kaleida]

Ooh, I can't wait to hear how that goes if you do! :D I would definitely go with the MPT personally if you're looking for a more truly DMT-like experience, though I suppose I can't really speak to what MiPT is like smoked yet.... MPT is definitely a whole lot like DMT for me, approaching the level that MET is at but being just below that mark a bit more unique in other ways as might be expected, but certainly rivaling it in intensity. To be fair, some people here have claimed to get weaker effects from it, but if you get the kinds of effects on it I do I'm sure you won't be disappointed.... For me it was very much basically how I would have expected the DMT analogue of 4-HO-MPT to feel.

Since you're used to things like DOC this might not be an issue anyway, but my suggestion is to make sure you've got some space to move around or be active in like you would for something like that. The peak of MPT for me was very smooth but the second phase with the still strong but fading visuals was more energetic and tense, in a way not unlike other base tryptamines but a bit more than the others for me so far. It was easy for me to pace it off though, I was so stimulated to the point that my heart was even beating a little faster, not common for me with tryptamines....

 

[Xorkoth]

Cool, thanks for the tips. I'm vascillating between MiPT and MPT. I also have DiPT and DPT but both are salts whereas the other two are freebases. MiPT is quite euphoric so I'm thinking about that too, but MPT seems a little more interesting. Do you get anxiety at all on smoked DMT? I do sometimes, just wondering how MPY compares to DMT in your experience, in terms of mental/emotional stuff, rather than visual.

 

[Kaleida]

Well, for what it's worth, not everything I've been smoking is a freebase.... I'm not at home right now but I'm pretty sure that at least the MET and EPT were fumarates. Personally, I've not had any problems yet; they're pretty much as intense as I would expect DMT analogues to be at the doses I use. Smoking DiPT would be interesting, I'm very curious to use it that way myself to reach full psychedelic effects with it, though at the moment I'm also far more interested in DPT.... That's definitely the one I'm going to do next, I'm fascinated to see how it will compare and contrast with EPT especially since it has a reputation for being so heavy.

I do get that adrenaline rush feeling from a full dose of DMT, and I have also gotten it on every other base tryptamine I have taken to significantly hallucinogenic effect as well except for EPT. So far it was easiest to handle by far on MiPT, but it was also slower and more drawn out with the oral dose, so that may be a biased view. As for MPT, that one definitely hit me pretty hard, more so than MET and much more so than MiPT, comparable to MALT but still a little less than DMT. In general, I am finding so far that the relationship of the synthetic base tryptamines to DMT is similar to that of the synthetic 4-substituted tryptamines to psilocin for me: compared to the naturals they tend to be a bit less crushingly overwhelming and deep feeling, but also more inviting and recreational.

MPT is still one of the heavier base tryptamines for me so far, definitely close to DMT, but nonetheless I do find it to be a bit more dissociating than DMT for the same visual overload which made it a bit easier to take and dampened some of the mental overload feeling, and also more hedonistic both in terms of the hallucinogenic content and the bodily feelings which can become orgasmic especially post-peak, plus it had more of the stimulation then, so overall I would say that I did find it to be smoother at the peak than DMT and more cognitive and emotional during the afterglow but with a particularly heavy focus on the former for me. However, this is all given that it is an incredibly powerful psychedelic for me nonetheless.... It may be easier than DMT, but I still wouldn't use it unless I was really wanting a DMT-like experience.

 

[TheAppleCore]

Yes indeed you are right, I do consider EPT to line up with 4-HO-MPT and 4-HO-DET. The overlaps were quite clear to me throughout the experience, at least as much as any other predicted pairs by that scale. However, while I do enjoy your enthusiasm, I must say that some of your descriptions here of these substances don't really match up with my own, in ways that are pretty crucial for your theory.

[...]

In any case, those are my thoughts on the matter. The important point is, with regards to figuring out how to treat EPT in relation to all those contextual effects, I wouldn't really necessarily group it in with 4-HO-MPT, 4-HO-DET, and LSD personally, it's pretty distinct... but in terms of the more abstract, superficial but also deep nature of the truly psychedelic effects, I would definitely group them together, and that's certainly very strongly contributing to my appreciation of EPT at the moment.

Ah, sucks that you can't entirely relate. Allow me to explain myself a little more clearly. Even if you don't necessarily find that your experience matches up with mine for the same molecules, I have no doubt that you will find something similar at some point along the progression of tryptamine tail extensions (perhaps with 4-HO-MET?), and if anyone is going to appreciate the significance of this insight, it's going to be you. This is actually an idea that has been brewing for a long time, but I only bring it up now because your EPT report seemed to fit very snugly into this framework, although perhaps I am mistaken.

So, let's focus on the 4-substituted tryptamines exclusively for a moment, since I have much more personal experience with this subclass. This may not necessarily apply to you or anyone else, but for myself, a fairly consistent effect of building out the nitrogen tail of the 4-subs is to intensify a certain aspect that I'm referring to as the "narcosis". The best way that I can describe the narcosis is to relate it to GABAergic drugs like alcohol or kava, and I wouldn't be surprised if it really is due to the natural GABA release which you have informed me psychedelics are capable of eliciting. Now, the style in which the narcosis is presented varies hugely between molecules with identical tail mass (like 4-HO-DET, 4-HO-MPT, and 4-HO-MiPT), due to the distinct individual characters of these drugs, but nonetheless, all of these structural isomers have generally similar overall levels of intensity when it comes to their GABAergic-type (dis)inhibition.

Importantly, this effect exists in mutual opposition with another property of psychedelics, which is a sort of disorienting mental overstimulation (which certainly jives with your suggestion that 5-HT2A agonism can somewhat cancel itself out by projecting GABA to cortical neurons). Of course, there are multiple ways to interpret the word "stimulation", and indeed I could even argue that 4-HO-DPT is highly stimulating in certain ways, which could lead to some confusion here, but I'm using the word to refer to something more specific. Regardless, at the right level, the narcosis and the stimulation cancel out, leading to what I'll describe as an "internal synergy". We've already discussed the internal synergy that can occur at the right level of tryptamine tail bulk with regards to visuals, but this is a new axis of synergy.

To me, this optimal synergy occurs on the level of 4-HO-DET/MPT/MiPT, wherein the trip neither feels overly stimulating nor overly narcotic, but rather balanced to the point of resembling my sober cognition in this respect. Heading downward through 4-HO-MET to psilocin, the trip becomes increasingly more disorientingly overstimulating, and hence less grounded; above, 4-HO-EPT and 4-HO-DPT become intoxicating in the opposite direction as they develop overtly sedative or dissociative highs. LSD also happens to strike the balance fairly well, and in fact it was on LSD that this theory first occurred to me. (It's interesting to note that my optimal internal synergy with regards to the mental effects occurs at the same bulk level as your previously stated optimal internal synergy for visual hallucinations -- I wonder if there's a connection?) Again, to be clear, I agree with you that drugs like 4-HO-MPT can be both intensely stimulating and dissociative in certain ways, but in others, they do feel remarkably lucid to me.

Enter the base tryptamines... I haven't yet conducted enough trials with them to have my own opinion on the matter, but the fact that EPT is revealing itself to be exceptionally grounded, and its status as a peer of 4-HO-DET on the old scale you gave me, makes me highly suspicious that it may partly derive its groundedness from internal synergy between the stimulation and narcosis, although I will agree that it probably also has other things going for it, like the inherent character of base tryptamines. It also makes me feel like your old ranking system might be even more powerful than you're giving it credit for. I'll have to see the effects of EPT for myself before I can be sure, however.

Regardless of how any of this relates to EPT, I do find this whole concept of the "internal synergy" between simultaneous effects of a single psychedelic to be fascinating, and largely fuels my appreciation for molecules that seem to pull it off exceptionally well for me, both visually and mentally, like 4-HO-MPT and LSD.

 

[Volsam]

Awesome timing with this one, thank you for your detailed experience report, Kaleida! :D

I just started experimenting with it too, only oral so far in low incrementing doses. I have had great times combining 4-HO-EPT with Harmaline and I feel like EPT would go great with MAOI too! As well as perhaps being a topper to something like Proscaline or MDA...8)

 

[skie]

Good read. If I’m allowed to ask you something a little bit off topic: you mentioned MET, how does it compare with this trip - and other psychedelics.
Having difficulty finding a lot of subjective experiences.