Gabapentinoids Gabapentin, Caffeine, and Seizures

[gabbypolar]

Hello, Bluelighters. For those of you who use gabapentin, I want to know more about your experiences and knowledge with and of high doses and caffeine, specifically, how this combination affects the probability of seizures. Scientific answers and personal experiences are both welcome.

As many of you may know, gabapentin and other gabapentinoids are anticonvulsants, which are drugs used in epilepsy to prevent seizures (obviously, and they also have many other uses too!), but you may have also heard of a paradoxical effect from overdosing on these drugs - they prevent seizures but also cause them in high doses. First of all, I am not entirely sure what the seizure-risk threshold is for gabapentin because everyone is different, some people take 3g and have a great time, while others take 1200mg and start twitching and getting brain zaps. Personally, I do not twitch until I have surpassed 2g, and I rarely ever take that much. I would like to take more and see what else the drug has to offer, as I haven't noticed much of a difference in how it feels between 1800mg and 2400mg, which is the most I've ever taken. There has been research that concluded that caffeine negates the anticonvulsant properties of gabapentin, and I am curious as to how this affects the likelihood of a seizure. Does negating the anticonvulsant properties increase the risk because there is less of that to protect you, or does it allow you to take higher doses with less risk of seizure because it is entirely paradoxical and there is nothing else about gabapentin that causes them?

Any personal experiences and pharmacology lessons are appreciated. Thank you.

 

[gabbypolar]

Update: After doing some more research, I calculated the seizure threshold for gabapentin to be ~1,440mg. This is based on the information provided by this article which stated that as an anticonvulsant, pregabalin is 2.4x stronger. Multiply this by the maximum dose prescribed due to seizure concerns (600mg) and you get 1,440mg for gabapentin. Today, I decided to test my hypothesis, but before reading, please take everything else I say with a grain of salt because I am only one person, this is my experience, gabapentin tends to be highly subjective between users in its effects, and results may vary greatly in this regard because of that. It is probably safer to disregard this if you have epilepsy, but I am not a doctor.

Anyways, I took one 300mg capsule after eating a meal rich in fats. 20 minutes later, I took another one. 21 minutes later, another. 22 minutes later, another. 21 minutes later, another. 23 minutes later, the final one. I was out walking around when I did this, so I am not sure how that may impact my metabolism. I got home, and after about 30 minutes, I had an energy drink, which I bought when I was out. This drink contained ~65mg of caffeine, which is a little less than a cup of coffee (I think) but I don't consume caffeine regularly. I drink water, only other things when I'm going out, and never finish sodas, coffee, energy drinks, etc. Today, I finished that drink I had when I got home, and I waited for the gabs to hit me. They hit hard. Really hard. This was approximately 3 hours after my final dose. Started feeling it a little at 2 hours after final dose, but 3 was when it really hit. I took 1500mg, but because gabapentin's bioavailability is so bad without taking steps to increase it, that even with all the extra steps I took to increase that, I am going to assume that at most, 250mg of each capsule was absorbed. That is the high end. It is more likely that even less was absorbed, but I did my best. With that in mind, roughly 1000mg - 1250mg of gabapentin made its way into my bloodstream, putting me just below the calculated seizure threshold. Usually, at doses like these, I begin to twitch a little bit, stiffen up, all that fun pre-seizure shit, but never actually seize. With the caffeine, which anecdotally is known to potentiate gabapentin's recreational effects, while also being clinically known to reduce anticonvulsant effectivity, has given me a strange result. I did not twitch, stiffen up, have random spasms, any of that today. It appears to me so far, that caffeine is effective at reducing seizure risk with high doses of gabapentin, but remember, I did not cross the seizure threshold, so more must be done to come to a solid conclusion. I would love to see others attempt something similar at a higher dose, but that is a risk that is entirely up to you to take, and I do not intend to be liable for anyone's risky decisions. Curiosity killed the cat, after all, but I think this cat has a good chance of survival so far. Will likely report again in a few days to document another experience. Hopefully I don't seize up and die.

 

[Robi]

welcome to BL, glad youre posting, you be careful, gaba doesnt seem to do anything for me, it seemed to the first 3 days prescribed, i hardly take them, dont know if i should be building them up in system or just gaining tolerance and addiction, the were prescribed for sleep, best wishes in all things

 

[gabbypolar]

welcome to BL, glad youre posting, you be careful, gaba doesnt seem to do anything for me, it seemed to the first 3 days prescribed, i hardly take them, dont know if i should be building them up in system or just gaining tolerance and addiction, the were prescribed for sleep, best wishes in all things

Thanks for the warm welcome. Tolerance with gabapentin builds up very quickly, especially if you take high doses, which would be more effective than lower doses for sleep. For most people, it is notably ineffective after a few days of consecutive use. Good luck to you too.

 

[nznity]

Gabapentin Is a very subtle drug, don't try to push doses. I know it has mood enhancing properties but it's not worth taking more than 1.5g. There's not much difference with low doses besides loss of coordination...

 

[Conky]

I've taken 15 grams of Pregabalin on empty stomach and didn't have a seizure

Not exactly sure what that means haha but I've always had a high threshold for abuse. I don't even get hangovers no matter how much cheap liquor I consume.

 

[gabbypolar]

Another update: two days later I have taken basically the same dose with the same dosing techinique, didn't effect me quite as much as last time, still strong though. May try again in three days with a higher dose to test my hypothesis again as tolerance seems to have built up a little bit. Similar results to last time, no twitching or any of that, but still below threshold. Will keep you guys posted.

 

[MassAveMayor]

Staggering lower dose w fatty foods ie dark chocolate, cheese, peanuts fucking whatever you can find, also people say caffeine but I’ve had so many experiences and never thought a cream soda would make my gabapentin boost that must. Interested in what peo0le have to say about gab/ caffeine

 

[gabbypolar]

Update 3: Waited three days before doing this again, same routine as usual, but with 1800mg, and the results were basically the same as the last two times. No indication of a seizure, no twitching at all, got pretty high too. 1800mg is the highest I take because I have experimented with higher doses in the past, but there was never any significant difference in the high between that dose and 2400mg, which is as high as I've gone. 1800mg is clinically significant because it is just above the seizure threshold for gabapentin. I've heard of people taking 3g of this stuff, but that is unnecessarily risky, and with such little difference in the effects after 1800mg, it also seems pointless. Caffeine greatly potentiated the gabapentin, far beyond what I had expected before creating this thread, and it seems to be a safer alternative to taking higher, riskier doses, but caffeine as an alternative was not what this thread was made for; it was made to find whether caffeine allows one to safely consume larger amounts of this substance. Some time in the future, I will push the dose up another 300mg and mix it with caffeine like before, and if there is no significant difference or I start getting those warning signs of an impending seizure, I will stop, document it, and that will be the end of this experiment for me. If I get the same results as every other time, I will increase the dose one more time and document that experience instead and finally come to a conclusion.

 

[gabbypolar]

Final update: Been meaning to post this for a while. I followed the same dosing schedule as before, but up to 2400mg, mixing it with caffeine and ibuprofen. At this dose, it reduced/eliminated tremors and twitching, however I would not recommend anyone take a dose that high because there are some serious consequences for doing so. In my experience, every single time I took a dose that high, it left me in an awful mood the next day. I did it more than I care to admit after my last post because it felt so good, but it gets old quickly. I feel it is also important to let everyone know NOT to mix ibuprofen or any other NSAID with gabapentin, especially at high doses, as this damaged my stomach lining, and no one else seems to mention this effect, even though it is significant. Turns out that gabapentin mixed with NSAIDs has the same effect as mixing SSRIs and other anti-inflammatory drugs with NSAIDs. Couple this with the general consensus that one should take gabapentin with fatty foods and caffeine, and you get a nasty combo that can seriously fuck you up because you are introducing extra stomach acid to a weakened stomach. If you are going to mix any substances with gabapentin in order to potentiate it, stick with caffeine only.

In conclusion, caffeine appears to reduce the risk of seizures with higher doses of gabapentin and potentiate its recreational effects. It was studied up to 2400mg in this "experiment" but leads to significant side effects at that high of a dose, especially when mixed with an NSAID. Try it, and you might get high as shit, but you'll also probably feel depressed the next day, and you may even damage your stomach lining.

 

[JTemperance]

The gabapentin doses are mentioned, but how much caffeine are we talking here?

 

[gabbypolar]

The gabapentin doses are mentioned, but how much caffeine are we talking here?

86mg

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

I've taken 15 grams of Pregabalin on empty stomach and didn't have a seizure

Please for whatever reason don't promote this dosage. It is ridiculously a high dose. Sorry had to get that out. Plz don't take it personal just a bit of HR.

Anyway OP obv may take some time to mull this over. A break would be optimal but skipping a dose here and there to get tolerance down a bit.
Over doing anything can and does cause issues... take surgar for example.
What is the main reason for posting? I mean are ya trying to get off gabapentin and are there other substances that are also taken?
peace

 

[gabbypolar]

Anyway OP obv may take some time to mull this over. A break would be optimal but skipping a dose here and there to get tolerance down a bit.
Over doing anything can and does cause issues... take surgar for example.
What is the main reason for posting? I mean are ya trying to get off gabapentin and are there other substances that are also taken?
peace

Main reason for posting was to give a personal report on caffeine's effects on gabapentin's safety profile and build a hypothesis from there. At the time of this experiment, caffeine was the only other substance involved, and breaks of several days to weeks were taken to improve accuracy of the results. I believe that finding ways to use substances more safely can be very valuable, especially for new users. I have also mixed other substances with gabapentin in the past, such as ibuprofen, lorazepam, hydroxyzine, and valerian root, however those experiences were not accounted for in this experiment except for one in the final post, where I wanted to maximize absorption by taking ibuprofen, and that was the only other drug used. Besides that, I strictly only used gabapentin and caffeine in the experiences I posted in this thread. One notable thing I learned during this whole experience was the harmful effects of using NSAIDs with gabapentin, and that was pretty clear, but the data on caffeine reducing the risk of seizures is still murky and to go any further, would require others to do this experiment on themselves, which I cannot encourage or condone as there is great risk involved. If someone else out there did decide to do what I did, I would be interested in the results, but it is ultimately their decision and I will not claim responsibility for any adverse reactions.
I want everyone to be safe and smart about their use.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

this experiment

i have one going on myself getting close to two months and havent found a need to raise dose. i will dose a little more (maybe .2mg) before i lay down no sleep worried about shady all night.

harmful effects of using NSAIDs

what? i was under the impression and possibly spreading anti HR content.
please explain?
thx

did, I would be interested in the results

i have some who are trying my freedom. waiting on results and i give full disclosure before dosing.
they are back paitients mostly vets ive met kickin it onda cona.

peace man when i was on gabap it seemed to enhance the effects of any drug i happened across.
now on pregabalin and use it at a minimum.
nice chattin with ya for a minute we will see round the cona, homie.
one love