I feel this thread is needed for two reasons, the last one is fairly dated and in my opinion in need of some updates, as well I now can link any members to this thread when need be instead of rehashing the same info time and again.
A bit about me, I absolutely Loove MDMA. My first experience ever was life changing, the single strongest experience of my life beyond any other psychedelic or drug in general. The only true ++++ Ive had. In that moment I could have died and my life would have been complete, that was the peak moment of existence for me.
After I knew I wanted to savor and cherish this for years to come, and at this point was already aware of the anecdotally reported “loss of magic” that comes from overuse. I began what became years of research into MDMA/MDA neurotoxicity, often just kind of for fun in my leisure time. My brains fairly good at remembering small details and making connections later.
Since my first experience I’ve been using MDMA more or less steadily since, and feel my life experience and those around me solidify in my mind that the rules I’ll list below work. 16years of MDMA use, if I was going to lose the magic I think it would have happened by now. Instead my experiences are breathtaking and still give my life depth and richness that I can’t begin to explain how much I appreciate..
So with that let’s get into it..
1. Don’t take more than 200mg in a night. This applies to almost everyone unless your a big dude with a naturally high tolerance, then you MIGHT need more like 250 maybe 300mg tops. Those individuals are extremely rare.
With pure MDMA 100-120mg plus a 30-60mg booster 1-3hrs later is ideal and often more than enough. Any more than that and you can assume it’s impure.
Dosage should not need to be increased over the years, I still need the same amount I always did as do the people I know.
2. One large dose plus maybe a booster is much safer than taking multiple doses over the night even if they are smaller. Research shows both an increase in neurotoxicity as well as a decrease in positive effects when taken in this manner. This is because after the first dose enzymes and metabolism becomes altered and subsequent doses are metabolized differently than the first.
From my own experience this also seems to be the case, the couple of times I tried the small repetitive dosing regimen I had a weaker experience and strong negative after effects.
It should also be noted that neurotoxicity research always uses multi dose regimens. I’ve never found an article that shows lasting toxicity with a single dose at any dosage.
www.sciencedirect.com
www.nature.com
3. Always test your product, preferably with as many reagents as possible. The list of drugs being sold in place of MDMA only grows year after year. With the APB class of RC’s some reagents will test nearly identical to MDxx substances, so the more you use the safer you’ll be.
Always ask the dealer to test before you buy. If they say no or get weird about it in any way you can assume 99% of the time they’re selling bunk. I’ve done this countless times and have never had a dealer refuse to let me test. You are the customer with the money remember that.
4. Stay cool! This ones really important yet often ignored. Ambient temperature around you must be kept to a reasonable temp or there will be a major increase in neurotoxicity. They’ve found just minor increases in temperature can mean the difference between toxicity or no toxicity.
I highly recommend against rolling during the day in hot environments, I would never eat MDMA at something like EDC or the Burning Man playa during the day where your cooking in 100+F temps. Wait until night where things are cool before ingesting any. Or aim to roll in cooler parts of the year.
Cannabis also helps to lower body temperature and subsequently reduce or eliminate toxicity, just only use it if your not one who easily gets panic attacks from THC.
www.sciencedirect.com
www.jneurosci.org
5. Consume antioxidants after you’ve come down from the roll. Antioxidants are another big way to reduce and/or eliminate neurotoxicity. The way in which MDMA’s neurotoxic metabolites cause damage is by taxing the antioxidant system and eventually causing free radicals to run amuck causing oxidative damage.
Many folks consume these antioxidants before and during the experience, and while this is good to do from a neurotoxicity perspective it also tends to negate some of the positive effects of the MDMA depending which antioxidants you take.
If one consumes the antioxidants at the end of the experience one can still protect themselves from oxidative damage while not interfering with the roll itself. This is because it takes time beyond the initial feel good effects before the metabolites form and the damage is done.
https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/why-it’s-ok-to-supp-after-your-roll.900865/
I often consume a chewable Airborne tablet full of Vit C, and other vitamins and minerals, right before bed after I’ve comedown. This seems to be doing the trick for protection over the years. No need to buy 20 bottles of supplements, a decent multiple that’s got way over the RDA is good.
It’s also wise to eat healthy in the week before and the week after an experience. You help to prepare your bodies antioxidants and stock up on monoamines to be released, and then replenish afterwards.
6. Keep your rolls to 4-6 times a year. Now this has been misinterpreted by many to mean, “only roll once every 3mos.” I have a thread which I’ll link that goes over why this isn’t correct and why it’s generally OK to schedule those rolls whenever you’d like. Even 2 days in a row is alright and may actually protect one from toxicity compared to spacing it out. Again all this info in the link provided.
https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/research-regarding-redosing-and-“3-month-rule”.877313/
The main thing is you want to maintain this frequency so that you don’t get into an addictive pattern or cycle with it. For this reason and this reason only I recommend newer users to space out their rolls by 3mos, because it gives you time to make sure your someone that can use this drug responsibly.
Ive heard countless times “I’m gonna go hard for these events and then I’ll stop for awhile I swear!” Only to then break that not long after.
Based on both the scientific literature and the anecdotal reports I’ve scoured, it appears newer users are more susceptible to toxicity than people that have been using MDMA for awhile (at reasonable dosages, that’s the qualifier) so one really wants to tread lightly in the first few years of use.
When we look at the MDMA preconditioning research we see that over time if given non-neurotoxic doses of MDMA (aka reasonable doses taken in a safe cool setting with antioxidants in ones system) these individuals (rats) can then be given neurotoxic doses and be afforded neuroprotection. With this and my own experience it seems 4 rolls a year is best in the beginning but one can add in 1-2 more as time goes on.
I would recommend against 7+ experiences in a year, both myself and others have noticed this is where serotonin depletion starts to become noticeable.
And the last one is one no list has I’m sure..
7. Try to induce neurogenesis after your roll. This is how I’m able to recover so quickly after I think, or at least one reason. Neurogenesis helps obliterate depression and generally repair any damage.
Low dose psychedelics either during or after the roll is good. I like to often finish my night with a small bump of K and hit of DMT. The K brings new neurons to a mature stage where they can help immediately, the DMT induces neurogenesis and modulates serotonin functioning.
I also try to work out soon as I can, and if I gotta work soon after my work is physically active. Can’t stress enough how important this physical activity is after. Both me and my brother agree nothing gets you back to normal again like movement after a roll.
A good hike is perfect the day after as it’s the cardio our brains need while also putting one in an enriched environment which also induces neurogenesis.
I’ll add more later as I can,
-GC
A bit about me, I absolutely Loove MDMA. My first experience ever was life changing, the single strongest experience of my life beyond any other psychedelic or drug in general. The only true ++++ Ive had. In that moment I could have died and my life would have been complete, that was the peak moment of existence for me.
After I knew I wanted to savor and cherish this for years to come, and at this point was already aware of the anecdotally reported “loss of magic” that comes from overuse. I began what became years of research into MDMA/MDA neurotoxicity, often just kind of for fun in my leisure time. My brains fairly good at remembering small details and making connections later.
Since my first experience I’ve been using MDMA more or less steadily since, and feel my life experience and those around me solidify in my mind that the rules I’ll list below work. 16years of MDMA use, if I was going to lose the magic I think it would have happened by now. Instead my experiences are breathtaking and still give my life depth and richness that I can’t begin to explain how much I appreciate..
So with that let’s get into it..
1. Don’t take more than 200mg in a night. This applies to almost everyone unless your a big dude with a naturally high tolerance, then you MIGHT need more like 250 maybe 300mg tops. Those individuals are extremely rare.
With pure MDMA 100-120mg plus a 30-60mg booster 1-3hrs later is ideal and often more than enough. Any more than that and you can assume it’s impure.
Dosage should not need to be increased over the years, I still need the same amount I always did as do the people I know.
2. One large dose plus maybe a booster is much safer than taking multiple doses over the night even if they are smaller. Research shows both an increase in neurotoxicity as well as a decrease in positive effects when taken in this manner. This is because after the first dose enzymes and metabolism becomes altered and subsequent doses are metabolized differently than the first.
From my own experience this also seems to be the case, the couple of times I tried the small repetitive dosing regimen I had a weaker experience and strong negative after effects.
It should also be noted that neurotoxicity research always uses multi dose regimens. I’ve never found an article that shows lasting toxicity with a single dose at any dosage.
Differences between rats and mice in MDMA (methylenedioxymethylamphetamine) neurotoxicity
In both rats and mice a single large dose of methylenedioxymethylamphetamine (MDMA; 25 mg/kg i.p.) caused a fall 3 h after injection in the content of…
Is A Single Dose of MDMA Harmless - Neuropsychopharmacology
www.nature.com
3. Always test your product, preferably with as many reagents as possible. The list of drugs being sold in place of MDMA only grows year after year. With the APB class of RC’s some reagents will test nearly identical to MDxx substances, so the more you use the safer you’ll be.
Always ask the dealer to test before you buy. If they say no or get weird about it in any way you can assume 99% of the time they’re selling bunk. I’ve done this countless times and have never had a dealer refuse to let me test. You are the customer with the money remember that.
4. Stay cool! This ones really important yet often ignored. Ambient temperature around you must be kept to a reasonable temp or there will be a major increase in neurotoxicity. They’ve found just minor increases in temperature can mean the difference between toxicity or no toxicity.
I highly recommend against rolling during the day in hot environments, I would never eat MDMA at something like EDC or the Burning Man playa during the day where your cooking in 100+F temps. Wait until night where things are cool before ingesting any. Or aim to roll in cooler parts of the year.
Cannabis also helps to lower body temperature and subsequently reduce or eliminate toxicity, just only use it if your not one who easily gets panic attacks from THC.
A review of the mechanisms involved in the acute MDMA (ecstasy)-induced hyperthermic response
The predominant severe acute adverse effect following ingestion of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, ecstasy) by recreational users is hyperthe…
Small Changes in Ambient Temperature Cause Large Changes in 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)-Induced Serotonin Neurotoxicity and Core Body Temperature in the Rat
The amphetamine derivative 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) is a drug of abuse and has been shown to be neurotoxic to 5-HT terminals in many species. MDMA-engendered neurotoxicity has been shown to be affected by both ambient temperature and core body temperature. We now report that...
5. Consume antioxidants after you’ve come down from the roll. Antioxidants are another big way to reduce and/or eliminate neurotoxicity. The way in which MDMA’s neurotoxic metabolites cause damage is by taxing the antioxidant system and eventually causing free radicals to run amuck causing oxidative damage.
Many folks consume these antioxidants before and during the experience, and while this is good to do from a neurotoxicity perspective it also tends to negate some of the positive effects of the MDMA depending which antioxidants you take.
If one consumes the antioxidants at the end of the experience one can still protect themselves from oxidative damage while not interfering with the roll itself. This is because it takes time beyond the initial feel good effects before the metabolites form and the damage is done.
https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/why-it’s-ok-to-supp-after-your-roll.900865/
I often consume a chewable Airborne tablet full of Vit C, and other vitamins and minerals, right before bed after I’ve comedown. This seems to be doing the trick for protection over the years. No need to buy 20 bottles of supplements, a decent multiple that’s got way over the RDA is good.
It’s also wise to eat healthy in the week before and the week after an experience. You help to prepare your bodies antioxidants and stock up on monoamines to be released, and then replenish afterwards.
6. Keep your rolls to 4-6 times a year. Now this has been misinterpreted by many to mean, “only roll once every 3mos.” I have a thread which I’ll link that goes over why this isn’t correct and why it’s generally OK to schedule those rolls whenever you’d like. Even 2 days in a row is alright and may actually protect one from toxicity compared to spacing it out. Again all this info in the link provided.
https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/research-regarding-redosing-and-“3-month-rule”.877313/
The main thing is you want to maintain this frequency so that you don’t get into an addictive pattern or cycle with it. For this reason and this reason only I recommend newer users to space out their rolls by 3mos, because it gives you time to make sure your someone that can use this drug responsibly.
Ive heard countless times “I’m gonna go hard for these events and then I’ll stop for awhile I swear!” Only to then break that not long after.
Based on both the scientific literature and the anecdotal reports I’ve scoured, it appears newer users are more susceptible to toxicity than people that have been using MDMA for awhile (at reasonable dosages, that’s the qualifier) so one really wants to tread lightly in the first few years of use.
When we look at the MDMA preconditioning research we see that over time if given non-neurotoxic doses of MDMA (aka reasonable doses taken in a safe cool setting with antioxidants in ones system) these individuals (rats) can then be given neurotoxic doses and be afforded neuroprotection. With this and my own experience it seems 4 rolls a year is best in the beginning but one can add in 1-2 more as time goes on.
I would recommend against 7+ experiences in a year, both myself and others have noticed this is where serotonin depletion starts to become noticeable.
And the last one is one no list has I’m sure..
7. Try to induce neurogenesis after your roll. This is how I’m able to recover so quickly after I think, or at least one reason. Neurogenesis helps obliterate depression and generally repair any damage.
Low dose psychedelics either during or after the roll is good. I like to often finish my night with a small bump of K and hit of DMT. The K brings new neurons to a mature stage where they can help immediately, the DMT induces neurogenesis and modulates serotonin functioning.
I also try to work out soon as I can, and if I gotta work soon after my work is physically active. Can’t stress enough how important this physical activity is after. Both me and my brother agree nothing gets you back to normal again like movement after a roll.
A good hike is perfect the day after as it’s the cardio our brains need while also putting one in an enriched environment which also induces neurogenesis.
I’ll add more later as I can,
-GC
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The more healthy habits piled on top of each other the better.
