Bupe Hard time lowering dosage.

[EnhancedChimp]

Hi everyone I've been lurking on BL for a while but just decided to create my own account.

Basically I've been on maintenance for 2+ years and at a 6 mg dose for over a year. 2 weeks ago I reduced my dosage to 4 mg. I'm going through w/d and I have very bad cravings and bought 8 Dilaudid 4 MG's didn't use them yet. I've been "sober" since I've been on maintenance.

I remember 4 years ago going from 8 mg to 2 mg in a couple of months without any withdrawal whatsoever. Even the jump from 2mg to none was fairly easy coming from a 30-50 mg Dilaudid habit insulflated.


What makes it so hard this time to lower the dosage? I know I've been at 6mg for a longer duration then my first time on bupe. My doctor wanted me stabilized due to the fact it was my second try with maintenance. Could that be the reason?

Thank you for any advice it's really appreciated.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

I know I've been at 6mg for a longer duration then my first time on bupe.

I'd say this is your answer. Bupe is fucking strong, and the withdrawals are way longer than say Oxy or heroin, but people doesn't seem to think about this.

The last time I got off bupe, I had to switch to a shorter acting opioid and combining with either Lyrica, Gabapentin or some benzo.

The only advice I have is to tread slowly. Don't stress it unles you really have to.
Shit takes time, unfortunately.

I don't have sources on it, but I believe that just like GABA-drugs such as benzos, kindling occurs and each withdrawal gets worse.

I hope you got something from this mess of words.

Take care man

 

[EnhancedChimp]

Yes this makes sense. I'm also on Klonopin 0.5 mg a day which I wasn't the first time I kicked bupe. Hopefully the craving gets under control within the next week or so. Thank you for your reply.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Buprenorphine being a partial agonist metabolizes into a full agonist called norbuprenorphine. There is debate and speculation on whether or not norbupe contributes to buprenorphine or not. I do personally believe it is some what active. I've read that buprenorphine itself doesn't cause any respiratory depression, yet it is still possible (they warn of it when using other CNS depressants) and I have noticed it myself at certain times, depending on whether or not I had a tolerance to full agonists at the time. This leads me to believe norbupe or some other of buprenorphine's metabolites might contribute to it's effects, especially in lower doses. Higher doses of buprenorphine (usually 4mg+ up for most people) will block other opioids, including it's own metabolite. Some people have to get down to .5mg and less before jumping because bupe is that potent.

This, along with with the fact that your blood level raises & drops more at these lower doses rather than staying above the ceiling level is why I think bupe is harder to come off of, even after you've tapered to a lower dose.

Duration, as the other user pointed out can also play a role.

Good luck OP! Have patience, take as long as you need and don't get yourself down about it! Cheers!

 

[G_Chem]

Buprenorphine being a partial agonist metabolizes into a full agonist called norbuprenorphine. There is debate and speculation on whether or not norbupe contributes to buprenorphine or not. I do personally believe it is some what active. I've read that buprenorphine itself doesn't cause any respiratory depression, yet it is still possible (they warn of it when using other CNS depressants) and I have noticed it myself at certain times, depending on whether or not I had a tolerance to full agonists at the time. This leads me to believe norbupe or some other of buprenorphine's metabolites might contribute to it's effects, especially in lower doses. Higher doses of buprenorphine (usually 4mg+ up for most people) will block other opioids, including it's own metabolite. Some people have to get down to .5mg and less before jumping because bupe is that potent.

This, along with with the fact that your blood level raises & drops more at these lower doses rather than staying above the ceiling level is why I think bupe is harder to come off of, even after you've tapered to a lower dose.

Duration, as the other user pointed out can also play a role.

Good luck OP! Have patience, take as long as you need and don't get yourself down about it! Cheers!

I’ve been experimenting with grapefruit or capsaicin before taking my dose as I know that these two either inhibit or induce cyp3a4 (respectively). There is definitely a difference, and when I have more time I plan to write a thread on it.

My theory is that the buprenorphine is more a stimulant/anti-depressant effect with little in the way of mu but the norbupe gives the classic opiate effects. Not sure which I like better, but I find the capsaicin before my night time dose is the way to go.

-GC

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I’ve been experimenting with grapefruit or capsaicin before taking my dose as I know that these two either inhibit or induce cyp3a4 (respectively). There is definitely a difference, and when I have more time I plan to write a thread on it.

My theory is that the buprenorphine is more a stimulant/anti-depressant effect with little in the way of mu but the norbupe gives the classic opiate effects. Not sure which I like better, but I find the capsaicin before my night time dose is the way to go.

-GC

Interesting!

You may be onto something. Some times I'll take a couple day break from my bupe to lower tolerance. I did this once a few years back. And when I got back on, I took a very small dose (about 1-2mg) thinking it might be euphoric. There was definitely a "buzz", but there wasn't much euphoria or mood lift. It was all nodding & sedation. After a few hours and getting tired of not being able to keep my eyes open, I took another 4mg. (Both doses were intranasal btw) and suddenly my mood become really bright, the sedation went away and I felt like I had energy & even a little euphoria.

Why this happened, I have no idea. But it makes me curious now which is actually better, bupe or norbupe or a combo of both. Unfortunately I haven't found a dose for myself yet that is a perfect mix of both.

 

[Skippwiggins]

I can drop from 8mg a day to 4mg with zero withdrawal, and to 2mg with slight withdrawal between doses. This is after being on it for years long. 4 years.


I have 2 hours of insanely intense exercise every single day. I attribute lower tolerance and ability to adapt faster to this. 1 hour cardio. 1 hour weights.

 

[Skippwiggins]

I also feel sub is unpredictable. Some days I'm tired af on it, some days it feels like an opiate, some days im jacked and going 100mph and only need to sleep 4 hours. It always hits me different.

Low doses make me tired and noddy. High doses give me that sweet energy so I prefer high doses.

I prefer methadone, but sub to me is a great drug and one of my favorite drugs there is for that matter.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I also feel sub is unpredictable. Some days I'm tired af on it, some days it feels like an opiate, some days im jacked and going 100mph and only need to sleep 4 hours. It always hits me different.

Low doses make me tired and noddy. High doses give me that sweet energy so I prefer high doses.

I prefer methadone, but sub to me is a great drug and one of my favorite drugs there is for that matter.

Interesting feedback!

I removed my other comment and decided to make it into an entire thread. It's strange that you also say you get energy from the higher doses of bupe. High dose bupe has also been used for cocaine addiction. But studies I'm finding show that bupe only releases dopamine in low doses, which is very interesting, since I associate dopamine release with an increase in wakefulness, energy, alertness, etc... But these studies seem to contradict that experience.

 

[CruelBri]

I’ve had very good luck with lowering bupe dose. I boof it. Make a water mix of 30 mg water. And 2 mg subs. And boof first thing in the morning.

boofing allows for more absorption of the bupe.

 

[EnhancedChimp]

Thanks for the help everyone I'm now at 2 mg and feel great.

 

[docdocassrammerjammer]

Hi everyone I've been lurking on BL for a while but just decided to create my own account.

Basically I've been on maintenance for 2+ years and at a 6 mg dose for over a year. 2 weeks ago I reduced my dosage to 4 mg. I'm going through w/d and I have very bad cravings and bought 8 Dilaudid 4 MG's didn't use them yet. I've been "sober" since I've been on maintenance.

I remember 4 years ago going from 8 mg to 2 mg in a couple of months without any withdrawal whatsoever. Even the jump from 2mg to none was fairly easy coming from a 30-50 mg Dilaudid habit insulflated.


What makes it so hard this time to lower the dosage? I know I've been at 6mg for a longer duration then my first time on bupe. My doctor wanted me stabilized due to the fact it was my second try with maintenance. Could that be the reason?

Thank you for any advice it's really appreciated.

I’m doing the same thing right now down to two MG a day this is my third time now. Exercise diet are what’s got me through without issue first time was very hard I was in mild withdrawals for about three weeks. I find it’s not even half as bad as fent withdrawals and keeping reminding myself of that made it easier but sweating it out made it much easier. First time laying around was awful.