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HDMP-28 or methylnaphthidate

thanks for the laughs that resulted from this thread. im counting down the days till this pops up.
 
So wutz the Cancer deal?
Or are you guys just confusing everybody with unfounded enthusiasm?

Was interested until the 'C' word popped up, so what'll it be?
Cancer for $500.00 Pat (good answer!? )
 
I'm really close to begin the acquisition process, but, this mutagenic thing is puttin' on the brakes.

Is this substance safe, or what!?!?

Has the jury come to a conclusion?
 
So how dangerous is it? (Maybe no-one knows - as sekio said, there are some widely used drugs which have the napthyl group in them - but there are also others like agomelatine, which is hepatotoxic- do not know if it is due to the napthyl group but since its derived from melatonin, I guess its likely to be so)

Have done initial tests and it is awesome stuff - better than any of the -phenidates so far. Maybe really a legal coke this time.

Would a 3,4-dichloro variant of this be possible (analog to 3,4-CTMP), for a longer duration? Do not know, but could be a real winner then.
Also how about ethylnaphtidate?
 
I'm bumping this thread, just ordered some of this from a vendor, it sounds promising, does anyone have any advice or experiences they could relay?
 
I'd say it is a bit less potent than (m)ethylphenidate - don't know if this is due to isomers or a lower potency. Also on some occasion I had the feeling that its NDRI action is longer lasting than the SRI action - leaving one with a bit of jittery, tired-wired feeling after the initial smoothness wears off ... but overall it feels pretty clean, not really like coke (but don't have too much experience with that either)... I stay at the point that it is superior to the other phenidates.

But until more is known about its potential harmfulness (which could take a long time.. at least until some animal studies are done, and I have serious doubts in the value of many animal studies) I will not order more.

Carcinogenity is even (much) nastier than latent hepatotoxicity. No way to test for, and the damaged DNA remains in your body when you stop taking the chemical.. sleeping and ticking..
 
I worry less about carcinogenic possibilities than immediate kidney/liver interactions, as a smoker living in the United States of processed food and poison, cancer is even more inevitable than the erosion of personal freedom, and generally with some exceptions carcinogenic mutations require some amount of consistency to flourish, your body eventually replaces those cancer cells, it's the repetitive exposure that gets you, ya know..
 
There is a big range from "could eventually be harmful to the DNA" to "will be mutagenic and develop cancer in any animal which is exposed to this stuff repeatedly" ... I have no clue where light - heavy smoking fits in and where to put this methylnaphtidate. Is it comparable to smoke one cig a day? Much less? Much worse?
 
Is it comparable to smoke one cig a day? Much less? Much worse?
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I'm nearly certain that the research necessary to answer this question has not been conducted.

ebola
 
I just included this in an order from a vendor I trust.

I look forward to reporting my results. From what I can tell it looks to be a good one--though of course unproven in terms of safety.

It would be useful if someone gets some lab work done to determine urinary metabolites, liver enzyme levels, etc. Not that I'm volunteering.
 
I have to say, I LOVE THIS STUFF!!!!! Probably too much. There is virtually no burn, although a definitely unpleasant taste in your throat when you get a drip(I think mixing it w/ a tropane deriv or anesthetic would be ideal). But a very small amount produces a euphoric high similar to 10-20x the equivalent dose of cocaine. It's slightly moreish, but less so than cocaine for sure. 1g lasted me with regular use for a week and a half. I wish you could get this in higher quantities than are currently available from US vendors, but maybe it's best that I can't.. Because my god is it satisfying.

There is some serious residual stimulation that comes along with it, be warned, and it's easy to do too many bumps in a row and suddenly be much higher than expected, so take it slow.

Also, point of fact.. It is not soluble in saline. I broke two snoot sprayers trying to make it into a saline solution, and then had to evaporate it back to reclaim the wasted material
 
Don't know what the obsession with replacing a phenyl group with a naphthyl
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I thought it was a drug designer's brute force trick for increasing binding affinity to some/many protiens: if it don't bind with a phenyl then just make it greasier in the hope that those pi stacking interactions get you somewhere you want to be.

Unfortunately it has a tendency to make unmetabolizable, undissolvable bricks of molecules if overused..
 
I received my sample today and, after an initial allergy test, have started trialling the compound. Bear in mind that I got a little bit less sleep than is preferable last night (about 4-5 hours), and that I had a coffee and ~20mg vyvanse this morning to wake me up for the day. I'm normally prescribed 50mg vyvanse/daily, however it's been about 5-6 weeks since I've last used any stimulants besides caffeine.

I dosed as follows:

(t+0h) 2:00: 8mg insufflated
As noted earlier in the thread, there was no burn and no significant taste upon insufflation. However a dull ache began to manifest in the sinus after some time. I would compare it to the "bruised" sensation you can get in muscle tissue after a tetanus shot (Or after any other fairly irritating IM shot, I would guess, though I have no experience with needles except medically). Overall, it went up the nose more pleasantly than any other compound I've tried except possibly MXE. It doesn't burn like fluorinated amps, EPH, etc., and it doesn't have a vile drip like tryptamines or APBs.

Within just a couple minutes I began to feel a sort of "fuzz" that I've come to associate with serotonergic drugs (not just SRAs, also SSRIs, DXM, and MXE--despite it's supposed lack of affinity for SERT). However I don't notice any entactogenesis. I also don't feel any stimulation, though about 15 minutes after dosing I remember noticing that I no longer feel my sleep debt.

(t+0.5h) 2:30: 13 mg insufflated
The effects stopped growing about 15 minutes after dosing, so I waited another 15 minutes to be sure, and then measured out and insufflated a 13mg line. The same dull ache in the sinus returned--though it had never completely gone away from the last dose. I again noticed the serotonin-y buzz first, with the wakefulness emerging gradually over a few more minutes. The character of the drug becomes more apparent--I begin to suspect that it's dopaminergic push is too weak in comparison to it's serotonergic effects. However I decide that I'm enjoying the mild buzz I've developed, and ride it out for a while. I notice some tactile enhancement when I get up and walk around--the air feels good against my skin.

After about an hour, it starts to taper a bit. There's no comedown or urge to redose at all--at least at this point--just a gentle fading towards sobriety. However I decide to dose again in order to see where this compound can take me.

(t+1.5h) 3:30: 20mg insufflated
I take a 10mg line in each nostril. The ache in my sinuses isn't any stronger than previously, but the drip tastes a little more strongly with the greater quantity. I get the serotonergic fuzz again and start to feel a bit warm. I become a little concerned about the possibility of elevated body temperature and/or serotonin syndrome. However, this effect didn't grow any more obvious after the first couple of minutes.

A calm alertness begins to develop in me over the next 10-15 minutes, and I notice an inflation of ego--I feel generally well. I first thought to describe this as a sensation of being on top of the world. However, I don't think that's really appropriate given the subtlety of the feeling. Nevertheless I am enjoying myself at this dosage. It doesn't have the fiendish reward of EPH, or the bowl-you-over euphoria of 4-FA, or the warm glow of 5-APB, but it leaves me content and in the moment.

I do think to check my pulse, and am surprised to find it sitting comfortably at ~85bpm--EPH and MPH often set it racing, fluorinated amps seem to push it to 100+, and even my vyvanse tends to elevate it significantly. This drug certainly doesn't feel "tweaky" at all.

(t+2h) 4:00: 10mg EPH insufflated
The buzz is enjoyable but still mild, and I want to see how it develops. Thinking about my earlier conclusion that this compound is too serotonergic, and slightly wary from my earlier impressions, I decide to see if a more selectively dopaminergic stimulant can give it some legs. Though I start conservatively, in case of unexpected synergy, I quickly conclude that HDMP-28 does not hide EPH's physical side effects, andworry about spoiling the calm buzz by taking too much of a tweaky stim like EPH.

(t+2.3h) 4:20: 15mg HDMP-28 + 12mg EPH insufflated
I top off with a bit more of each, though by this time the effects had begun to wane--my earliest doses were probably well on their way to fading--so I mostly manage to extend the buzz rather than boost it. I definitely notice a greater degree of physical stimulation now than earlier, but I'm not uncomfortable.

I generally dislike taking stimulants via ROAs other than oral because of the abrupt comedown, and I find MPH and EPH comedowns especially hellish. Because of this I also added 10mg EPH and 10mg HDMP-28 to a bottle of gatorade, to sip on the rest of the night. The effects endured for another hour or two before starting to gradually fade away. As I write this at 8:00 (t+5.5h) the buzz is gone, but I'm still very awake. It's also obviously motivating this wall of text, though I feel significantly less of a desire to write now than I did upon starting this post half an hour ago.

Overall, I like this one's unique feel, though I didn't take it far enough to discover whether it can amount to more than a mild experience. However, the general lack of typical stimulant side effects bodes well for the scaleability of the high with increasing dose. I think next time I'll start off with two lines of 20mg, separated by 15-20 minutes. I also still think there's some merit in combining this with a more selective stimulant, though EPH isn't necessarily the right one.

Some notes:

I did not measure my temperature. I only came to a subjective conclusion that I felt hot and just slightly ill. However, given the total absence of stimulant anxiety, I'm pretty confident that I didn't imagine the sensation. Obviously, any serotonergic can be expected to affect body temperature to some degree, but serotonin syndrome is painfully unpleasant to experience (MXE and allylescaline... yuck!) besides being potentially fatal. It's worth noting that I did take tramadol two days ago, so it's possible that this was a minor interaction with any lingering metabolites. However, that doesn't bode well for this drug's interaction profile at all. Assume the worst: it might be as dirty as DXM. It should stay far far away from any SRAs, of course... but I would also be very cautious of interactions with regular amphetamine or SSRIs.

My product is a very finely ground, white, crystalline, powder. It doesn't clump or stick at all. I faintly detect a naphtha-like smell--possibly due to some remaining precursor or side product in the synth? However, I'm familiar with just how much naphthalene stenches, so I'm pretty confident that any impurities which may be present constitute a very small percentage of the material.

I also have a few thoughts to add on the potential for carcinogenicity or kindey/liver toxicity with this one. Here is a MSDS for naphthalene. It has different toxicity and carcinogenicity characteristics depending on species and sex, however no direct evidence of carcinogenicity in humans has been observed. Rats and female mice were more likely to develop certain types of cancers after inhaling naphthalene vapor at 10-60ppm for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, for two years. This regimen doesn't cause cancer in male mice, probably due to differences in metabolism. Another experiment concluded that naphthalene's carcinogenicity could be explainable by it's partial metabolism into 1,4-naphthoquinone, which appears to suppress programmed cell death. This and other metabolites of naphthalene seem to be excreted rapidly into urine, with a biological half-life of just a couple of hours. I think the key here is consistency of exposure: While a worker in an unsafe plant might face daily environmental exposure to naphthalene--and therefore maintain a steady level of apoptosis-inhibition due to consistent blood plasma levels of its metabolites--intermittent exposure doesn't carry nearly the same set of risks, even if we assume that naphthalene or related compounds are significant impurities or metabolites of HDMP-28.

The larger issue IMO is the potential for organ toxicity, because we know that naphthalene can damage liver and kidney tissue, cause anemia, and promote the formation of cataracts. However, the LD50 for acute exposure is 2250mg/kg in rats, while the NOAEL (no observable adverse effect level) for chronic exposure is 100mg/kg/day in rats. Obviously, rats and humans are very different, but the FDA approximates dose equivalency between species in order to estimate "safe" exposure levels in humans. And the FDA claims that you could consume up to 0.1mg/kg/day of naphthalene every day for the rest of your life, or up to 0.4mg/kg in an acute exposure, and not experience any observable adverse effects. I weigh around 150lbs, so that means that I could eat 6.85mg of naphthalene every day, or 27.4mg of naphthalene on special occasions, and be "fine." Naphthalene weighs 128g/mol, while HDMP-28 weighs 283g/mol. This means that, if we are to assume the doomsday scenario that 100% of all HDMP-28 consumed is cleaved at the ring to form naphthalene, I should hypothetically still be able to consume 15.2mg of HDMP-28 every day, or 60.8mg on rare occasions, without suffering any ill effects.

Lastly, there are symptoms of naphthalene poisoning which you can check out in the MSDS I linked. So at the very least, I doubt anyone is going to hurt themselves without realizing what's happening--that is, as long as they're sensible bluelight-reading, HR-practicing folk who research their vices and practice them in moderation. 0.0

EDIT: I'd forgotten that this thread was locating in NPD rather than OD. Sorry if any of this appears needlessly recursive, I was trying to spell out acronyms and explain terms as I used them.
 
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Lastly, there are symptoms of naphthalene poisoning which you can check out in the MSDS I linked. So at the very least, I doubt anyone is going to hurt themselves without realizing what's happening--that is, as long as they're sensible bluelight-reading, HR-practicing folk who research their vices and practice them in moderation. 0.0
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except none of this really translates to methylnapthidate toxicity... otherwise amphetamine would have similar toxicokinetics to benzene.

and napthalene is not going to be a synthesis impurity at appreciable levels either.
 
sekio said:
except none of this really translates to methylnapthidate toxicity... otherwise amphetamine would have similar toxicokinetics to benzene.

and napthalene is not going to be a synthesis impurity at appreciable levels either.
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Hmm. You're right of course. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that methylnapthidate isn't toxic. Rather, I was trying to suggest that the presence of the naphthyl group doesn't confer naphthalene's risks--because it seems to me that a few people are running scared from this one for precisely that reason.

Of course, this doesn't mean it's anywhere close to safe, but I'm not seeing any more cause for concern here than with any other unresearched compound. Or at least, I don't see how a naphthyl substitution is inherently more concerning than any of the other groups we see tacked on to increase binding promiscuity.
 
HDMP-28 is a great stimulant for treating ADHD. Hardly any side effects, shadow people show up late, not anxiogenic. Much better than 3-4 CTMP and EPH. Duration 2-4 hrs, dose 10mg+ intranasal. Great clean focus and energy. This one is a winner.
 
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