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Recovery How To Repair Your Body, Mind, Soul - A Guide

oldhead

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 12, 2006
Messages
308
Real quick, age 14 first joint, been drug user since and I am 61. Been addict for 15 years, finally weened down to 1-2 mg of sub a day. Hard time putting one foot in front of the other and very down. tried 5-HTP and all I can say is WOW. Aside from stomach issue it's a wonder herb. Instant energy and mood lifter.
 

JBrandon

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
1,021
Breathe - just wanted to say thanks again for this guide.

Your guide to mental and emotional hygiene has been absolutely wonderful for me. Thank you.
 

Birdy-Num-Num

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
23
Hi guys , and Beathe, excellent stuff. However one important reservation . Too much reliance on certain supplements especially aminos like tyrosine and dlpa is that they down-regulate production of dopamine and serotonin and other neurotransmitters . This means that your own brain and body is relying on these supplements and not naturally which is absolutely key.

think of it like a walking stick needed after recovering from a broken leg. You need it for the recovery but rely on it for prolonged period and the muscles and bones do not grow and get stronger on their own and when the stick ( supplement ) is removed, you're weaker and worse off and need further period of recovery.

this particularly applies to Kratom. With respect, this is the biggest mistake a recovering opiate addict can make even in minute amounts since you are relearning the opiate experience and habit - Kratom does exactly what opiates do to the brain but in lesser degree. Again it will stop your brain and natural hormones recovering and resetting. Hats off to you for maintaining a strict 2 g in the morning habit and same again in the pm. I did that a while back and as is the case with Kratom leaf, tolerance sky rocketed and I was soon on 30 to 40 g, 5 times a day.

I would not want someone to follow your diet thinking you've nailed it, and it's their panacea to better health and recovery, to then find themselves addicted to Kratom ,a substance that they had previously never heard of before or even needed

This is also a nod to guy above who said that relying on supplements is often a replacement to another addictive substance, reinforcing the addictive behaviour.,

in short, you made some good points but you need to balance it with reality and impact of reliance of these "au naturale" substances.

Best wishes Birdy
 
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Mysterie

Bluelight Crew
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
4,342
Location
s̀p҉ace̛
do you notice a shift in your consciousness through taking kratom twice a day? or is it just maintenance which helps you to overcome cravings for opiates? do you ever plan on stopping?

i don't really consider kratom to be a supplement because of the reports of people who have taken it daily for months, then they try stop and go through a difficult withdrawal period.
 

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
Messages
55,026
Location
Looking-Glass Land
Kratom most definitely not accurately termed a supplement. That is mere advertising.

Kratom’s active alkaloids, such as 7-HO, are most definitely opioids, much like buprenorphine presenting with a partial agonism. This stuff isn’t as potent or powerful as buprenorphine, with a lower affinity for opioid receptors (although its affinity is higher than morphine), mg for my 7-HO is basically equapotent and has very similar effects to oxycodone IME. Due to its partial agonism it seems to have a ceiling dose whereas oxycodone dose not, but at or below 20mg they’re essentially the same in many respects.

Thank you for pointing that out Myst. Kratom certainly can be helpful, but it should not be though of as anything other than an opioid. It would be most accurately classified as such. It can be an effective form of ORT to help with cravings and get away from illegal drugs, but at a certain point, especially with daily long term and/or high dose use, the dependency and withdrawal is fairly indistinguishable (I mean it is different, just not essentially so) from opioid acute withdrawal syndrome.

That is basically what you’re refering to, no?

I think it is worth mentioning that just because there is the potential for dependency and withdrawal syndrome doesn’t mean it isn’t useful, just that it shouldn’t be characterized as anything but an opioid.
 
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Birdy-Num-Num

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
23
Toothpaste dog, thanks for further insight that reinforced my post above.

My main point is that if we are trying to properly reset brain and behaviour to pre-addictive state and hence also repair Opiode receptors, Kratom is the last thing you want to be touching, both on a neurological and psychological perspective..
 

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
Messages
55,026
Location
Looking-Glass Land
Well, I think it depends on ones goals and the character of their habit. For many maintenance actually moves them more toward homeostasis, even if it isn’t as “complete” as that of someone who is even further removed from opioid use.

I have to ask, is your username a reference to the French djs? Love love love their stuff :)
 

simco

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Aug 20, 2014
Messages
2,247
Location
with the dead crow god
Toothpaste dog, thanks for further insight that reinforced my post above.

My main point is that if we are trying to properly reset brain and behaviour to pre-addictive state and hence also repair Opiode receptors, Kratom is the last thing you want to be touching, both on a neurological and psychological perspective..

I would not call kratom the last thing a person in recovery should touch. For some people, kratom gives an important hedge against cravings and relapse. Yes it brings its own problems. But compared to the problems of illegal opioids kratom's risks are not major. If kratom helps you get off or stay off more damaging drugs, I say godspeed.
 

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
Messages
55,026
Location
Looking-Glass Land
Precisely. It isn’t benign or risk free, but frankly I don’t know if anything that is really helpful when it comes to opioids withdrawal.
 

Birdy-Num-Num

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
23
Toothpaste and Simco, point taken but perhaps slight cross wires. I was coming from perspective of someone who has completely recovered from physical w/d of opiates and well into recovery but not cleared PAWS. On the one hand, if it's the "thing" that will stop you relapsing, then fine. My point was that it could , on the other hand, act as a trigger, interfere with new habit formations and set intentions, and tampering with Neuron recovery. . But everyone is different and horses for courses.
 

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
Messages
55,026
Location
Looking-Glass Land
I think we’d definitely agree with you on that. Kratom is not a particularly viable or sustainable solution for something like PAWS. Opioids are opioids are opioids kinda thing, which I think is essentially your point.

I still wanna know if your username is a reference to Birdy Nam Nam =D but of course you’re under no obligations in that regard. I’m just a curious bastard. And love their music.
 

Birdy-Num-Num

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
23
[QUOTE=toothpastedog;14154197]I

I still wanna know if your username is a reference to Birdy Nam Nam =D but of course you’re under no obligations in that regard. I’m just a curious bastard. And love their music.[/QUOTE
]

Toothpaste

Ha, ha. No, it's a reference to the one of the best Peter Sellers films called Party where, at the beginning he starts a conversation with a caged parrot, saying ( in brilliant Asian / Indian accent) - "Birdy num num, Birdy num num" Much to everyone else's annoyance who are having quiet high society conversations.

Jeezus, now you've got me thinking ... Did the parrot reply the same or not ....gonna YouTube and see...

update.......

here it is https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=91EzjG5O6j4

just laughed out quietly rewatching it after many years....so thank you for reminder
 
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Jekyl Anhydride

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
5,408
Location
In a xenon pit
Breathe, I'm not sure if you're still around or maybe you touched on this already, but do you have any opinions on 'Pro Biotics' ? Or the problems with AntiBiotics for GI tract health? Or anybody else still reading this? Just curious, Thanks!
 

KraziKat

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 30, 2013
Messages
458
Location
Exit 165
Kratom is not a particularly viable or sustainable solution for something like PAWS. Opioids are opioids are opioids kinda thing, which I think is essentially your point.

c.

Which is precisely why, after all of my many "quits," I've never really quit anything. Just jumped from oxy to kratom, or subs to kratom, or alcohol to kratom, or kratom to alcohol, and so on.
 

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
Messages
55,026
Location
Looking-Glass Land
Which is precisely why, after all of my many "quits," I've never really quit anything. Just jumped from oxy to kratom, or subs to kratom, or alcohol to kratom, or kratom to alcohol, and so on.

Which affects your health worst out of all of those? Least worst?
 
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