Bupe I'm terrified of taking Subox for maintenance. Please tell me what it's really like.

[AddictedAndHatingIt]

Hello BL crew.
First off, let me say thank you for this forum and to its users for their truthful and insightful information. I believe this place is a true treasure and many people have been helped through some crazy shit by this community.

I've been lurking for a while. Reading a lot about all kinds of different things.

The time has come for me to make some changes in life. And I need some insight from people who have been there. Not a doctor who has no actual life experience.

So about me: I have had a hydrocodone addiction since after surgery in 2016, but it never got bad, maybe 75 to 80 mg a day and that was very infrequent. In 2022 a friend gave me a 30 mg oxy and from there things have snowballed into a 300mg - 400mg a day habit.

I find myself extremely depressed if I do not take oxy and even taking hydro acts more like a withdrawal helper and I do not get high from it. My liver would shut down if I were to take enough hydrocodone to actually feel something.

I've successfully stopped taking oxy and I am down to about 100 mg a day of hydro occasionally I will touch 120mg. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want oxy every day though but I just can't keep it up because I can see where this is going and I will die from it.

I don't shoot or anything like that. I just chew things up and swallow them.

I reached out to my doctor and he sent me to an addiction specialist who then prescribed bupe, and since it is so easy to get I have a crazy amount of it. I have 2 mg without narcan in it. I have 8 mg with 2 mg narcan tabs and strips as well.

What is this going to really do to me? I saw the FDA recently put something out that said you're going to lose your teeth from this drug so I'm terrified. Any experiences that you guys have or advice or anything on how to be normal and stabilize and then hopefully get off of bupe too would be greatly appreciated.

 

[E.Boyer]

I had taken it without proper knowledge and became hooked on it for about 2 years.

The withdrawal from this is extremely hellish and last a very, very long time. And it is true. My mother takes the strips and her dental health has been degrading rather quickly to the point where she believes she may need dentures.

There are other pill forms that may be available to you and if they are I would suggest that route, however I am not a medical professional. I am only speaking on personal experience.

I believe they're called subtex. If you can manage to get those that will be better for your dental from what I've researched. But please be aware that a slow taper will be needed to discontinue.

I managed to taper myself long ago because the doctor at the time was pushing this stuff. I never needed it in the first place but for reasons Iwish not to talk about I found myself dependent on them and let me tell you, it's better than being hooked on pills but you will pay in the end.

Be strong, believe in yourself and that there are brighter days that you deserve. No gain without pain and sacrifice

 

[AddictedAndHatingIt]

I had taken it without proper knowledge and became hooked on it for about 2 years.

The withdrawal from this is extremely hellish and last a very, very long time. And it is true. My mother takes the strips and her dental health has been degrading rather quickly to the point where she believes she may need dentures.

There are other pill forms that may be available to you and if they are I would suggest that route, however I am not a medical professional. I am only speaking on personal experience.

I believe they're called subtex. If you can manage to get those that will be better for your dental from what I've researched. But please be aware that a slow taper will be needed to discontinue.

I managed to taper myself long ago because the doctor at the time was pushing this stuff. I never needed it in the first place but for reasons Iwish not to talk about I found myself dependent on them and let me tell you, it's better than being hooked on pills but you will pay in the end.

Be strong, believe in yourself and that there are brighter days that you deserve. No gain without pain and sacrifice

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience and a hopeful note with me. It really means a lot.

I have good insurance, if there's a safer option I would certainly be able to get it. I've also looked into the shot, Sublocade, but don't know anyone who's actually done it.

People think my life is perfect, but I am also dealing with a deep dark addiction that makes me fear that one day I just won't wake up and it's been only very recently (December) that I've told anyone I'm dealing with this. Everyone I told was in disbelief, and it just goes to prove that nobody really knows what anyone else is going through on any given day.

My wife never even knew. I've managed to keep up all appearances and be the perfect husband, brother, uncle, employee, whatever. I said to myself that if I don't tell my wife of 17 years what I'm struggling with, she's going to find me unresponsive one day, and I don't want that to happen to her, or me, for that matter.

I respect you not wanting in to elaborate and completely understand, and if this is too close of a question please do forgive me and feel free not to answer, but, would you think continuing to taper with hydrocodone is a better option than taking bupe?

Oxy and hydro have always helped my mental health and pain from my surgery that caused nerve damage, and while I've read that bupe does help with the mental aspect to a degree, it is hit or miss for pain. I've been having pretty good success tapering over the months since telling my family, but nobody has any real experience trying to stop something like this in my family or friends. Doctors haven't been very forthcoming with information on bupe either, but they've been handling this stuff out like candy. Even telehealth gives it out.

I'm terrified of being stuck on bupe. I'm scared of the dental sabotage. I'm scared of myself when my anxiety and depression from withdrawals grab me and put me in a hole. Most of all, I want to be "normal" again. Addiction is exhausting.

 

[E.Boyer]

Honestly, let me give you a little information about myself that may help you.

I was heavily addicted to alcohol since I was a young teenager. I've tried almost any pill under the sun. My biggest issue was alcohol.

I was the type of person who did not believe or want to believe that I needed help until one day I realized I needed it.

Then, I gave in and went seeking professional help. It was the very best thing I did. I met so many like minded people that I could actually relate to deeply. It was one of the best things I've ever done. It was the first time I was surrounded by people who I knew could understand exactly how I felt and been through and I felt deep compassion and purpose helping and understanding them because we are stronger in numbers.

I'm not a medical professional so my advice is strictly personal. My non medical professional advice would be that you should be completely honest with your doctor. I know it may suck to admit this but it's the first step in the right direction and you'll feel great about getting started to getting your life back.

For some this route of subtex would be okay.
I would suggest working together with a doctor and finding a good clinical psychologist to work with. I was always against it but found out it was the best thing I could have done. Finding a group of like minded individuals who have gone through situations alike, you'll meet people that you'll relate to on a whole different level, I found purpose this way.

It's normal to feel anxious and nervous or even terrified like I was. But once you accept that it's an issue, this is the first step. Accepting help, is a awesome second step to getting your life back.

You do not have to be stuck on Suboxone.
You can make that clear to the doctors and a good doctor will work with you and not against you.

This, in my opinion would be a great step.
I've been there... I went through it...
I came out the other side much better and hardly ashamed. I felt like I fought through and achieved something most couldn't understand and that gives you a sense of achievementyou can get your life back.

The first step may seem daunting but you will get your life back and those who love you will be proud of you.

There will be pain and discomfort but it will be nothing compared to the joy you feel when you have your life back. The next step? You have the experience to help and teach people about what you've been through and to help people like ourselves through it

 

[AddictedAndHatingIt]

Honestly, let me give you a little information about myself that may help you.

I was heavily addicted to alcohol since I was a young teenager. I've tried almost any pill under the sun. My biggest issue was alcohol.

I was the type of person who did not believe or want to believe that I needed help until one day I realized I needed it.

Then, I gave in and went seeking professional help. It was the very best thing I did. I met so many like minded people that I could actually relate to deeply. It was one of the best things I've ever done. It was the first time I was surrounded by people who I knew could understand exactly how I felt and been through and I felt deep compassion and purpose helping and understanding them because we are stronger in numbers.

I'm not a medical professional so my advice is strictly personal. My non medical professional advice would be that you should be completely honest with your doctor. I know it may suck to admit this but it's the first step in the right direction and you'll feel great about getting started to getting your life back.

For some this route of subtex would be okay.
I would suggest working together with a doctor and finding a good clinical psychologist to work with. I was always against it but found out it was the best thing I could have done. Finding a group of like minded individuals who have gone through situations alike, you'll meet people that you'll relate to on a whole different level, I found purpose this way.

It's normal to feel anxious and nervous or even terrified like I was. But once you accept that it's an issue, this is the first step. Accepting help, is a awesome second step to getting your life back.

You do not have to be stuck on Suboxone.
You can make that clear to the doctors and a good doctor will work with you and not against you.

This, in my opinion would be a great step.
I've been there... I went through it...
I came out the other side much better and hardly ashamed. I felt like I fought through and achieved something most couldn't understand and that gives you a sense of achievementyou can get your life back.

The first step may seem daunting but you will get your life back and those who love you will be proud of you.

There will be pain and discomfort but it will be nothing compared to the joy you feel when you have your life back. The next step? You have the experience to help and teach people about what you've been through and to help people like ourselves through it

Again, thank you for the insight, advice, and real opinions, I appreciate your willingness to share.

I do have a good psychiatrist, and a therapist, but haven't found a "good" doctor like that yet. Most doctors spend 10 minutes and send a prescription and you're out the door, don't answer questions or even look up from their clipboard - and I'm lucky enough to have a the means a lot of people do not, and they still treat me like shit.

I'm also exploring group therapy, in addition to opening up my circle of support to include my family and close friends - I feel very supported, all things considered, and not pressured at all, aside from the pressure im putting on myself more than anything. Which definitely stems from feeling shameful that I got to the point in general.

If I could get a doctor to work with me on a taper of hydro that would be the optimal choice for me. Kicking oxy was awful, even with hydrocodone, and if bupe/sub is as bad as I've read it seems like it would be worse than kicking oxy cold turkey, which literally would be impossible for me to attempt.

While it isn't as bad as some people have it, like Fentanyl users, oxy was so bad for me to stop that I just refuse to go back to it. I went from about 350mg oxy (real ones) a day, to 100mg hydrocodone in 1 day and suffered hard for a solid week, knowing that I should experience as much discomfort as I could take to be able to remind myself later that this isn't what I want anymore. I was sweating, RLS, searing pain, no sleep, vomit, diarrhea, severe anxiety and Depression, it was hell.

I guess I'm leaning towards a continued taper because I fear the unknown of bupe and there are just so many people that are stuck on it and miserable, it seems like for every 1 success story there are 7 people trapped and wishing they never started it.

I just want to get off the hamster wheel.

 

[Nas47]

chains

 

[AddictedAndHatingIt]

chains

This sums up my fears in 1 word.

 

[LivingOnValium]

I've been about 1,5 years on buvidal 32mg weekly injection. I like it. I rarely even remember that I'm on an opioid maintenance treatment. Generally, buprenorphine has more of a positive effect on my mental health than any of the anti-depressants I've tried this far (Nearly everything available on the market).

It works well but i usually feel a little low in energy on the last day before receiving my injection. On the day of injection after ca. 2h, I can feel my energy levels return and keep feeling even slightly euphoric a few hours later. On the next morning i still feel better than usual but after that, it works really steadily throughout the week (a little less prior to the next dose).

But yeah, chains. I can't deny that even feeling positive about being on it.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @AddictedAndHatingIt

300mg-400mg per day Oxycodone (Percocet; Oxycontin) is pretty hefty. Buprenorphine is, among other things, an Opioid agonist. It's going to do what Oxycodone does. There are nuances to the pharmacology of Buprenorphine, but for our purposes, Buprenorphine is just another Opioid, like Hydrocodone (Vicodin; Lortab) or Oxycodone.

In short, B uprenorphine is significantly more mild/less potent than the aforementioned two Opioids. Buprenorphine is generally more successful for those with a comparatively smaller habit than some others. Don't get me wrong, I've known some of the most-dependent junkies ever going on Buprenorphine with success. However, most serious junkies I've ever known will say that Methadone was the only thing that cut it.

It can work great, but I feel you might need Methadone to actually be successful. Regardless of the option chosen, it's always best to bring everything to the table. Work a program, stay away from triggers and find something you love doing to replace what you've lost from your dependence. Don't ever make it just about the medicine or it will be a failure.

 

[AddictedAndHatingIt]

Hey @AddictedAndHatingIt

300mg-400mg per day Oxycodone (Percocet; Oxycontin) is pretty hefty. Buprenorphine is, among other things, an Opioid agonist. It's going to do what Oxycodone does. There are nuances to the pharmacology of Buprenorphine, but for our purposes, Buprenorphine is just another Opioid, like Hydrocodone (Vicodin; Lortab) or Oxycodone.

In short, B uprenorphine is significantly more mild/less potent than the aforementioned two Opioids. Buprenorphine is generally more successful for those with a comparatively smaller habit than some others. Don't get me wrong, I've known some of the most-dependent junkies ever going on Buprenorphine with success. However, most serious junkies I've ever known will say that Methadone was the only thing that cut it.

It can work great, but I feel you might need Methadone to actually be successful. Regardless of the option chosen, it's always best to bring everything to the table. Work a program, stay away from triggers and find something you love doing to replace what you've lost from your dependence. Don't ever make it just about the medicine or it will be a failure.

Thanks for the good advice. I've managed to cut down to about 120mg a day of Hydrocodone, and I still feel mild withdrawals at that level. I just can't keep doing this to myself or my family, I know I will die if I don't stop.

I am doing therapy in addition to the MAT option, but methadone isn't an option for me with the rules of having to go to a clinic every day.

I want OFF this stuff. I want to do the Sublicade shot and do the 3 month taper and be done. I just don't know if I can deal with the uncertainty or the depression.. I feel so hopeless and desperate that I'm out of options.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Being on bupe eliminates all the stress of "running out" of opiates…which to me is the worst thing about being hooked on opiates.

They prescribe easily 5 to 10x more than even the heaviest addict needs to stay well so you never run out

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

If you really want completely off everything I'd say a slow taper is the way to go. Once the stuff is out of your system physically however you're still going to be dealing with depressive symptoms, and you might require some medication for that.

 

[AddictedAndHatingIt]

Being on bupe eliminates all the stress of "running out" of opiates…which to me is the worst thing about being hooked on opiates.

They prescribe easily 5 to 10x more than even the heaviest addict needs to stay well so you never run out

This is very true. The Re-up anxiety is such a pain.

It's also true that doctors hand Bupe out like Halloween candy. Even telehealth gives it out with a 10 minute phone call.

What do you guys think my transition does should be, either broken up throughout the day or a single daily dose?

I've heard such conflicting info on that. One doctor said 2mg 3x a day, another said 8mg 2x a day, so I'm curious of the real world knowledge from the community here.

Thanks to all who've replied. So happy I joined this place. I think you guys have saved lives.

 

[AddictedAndHatingIt]

If you really want completely off everything I'd say a slow taper is the way to go. Once the stuff is out of your system physically however you're still going to be dealing with depressive symptoms, and you might require some medication for that.

I do have Lexapro, Remeron and Xanax (I know it's not an antidepressant, I have a panic disorder) for my post-bupe phase.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

This is very true. The Re-up anxiety is such a pain.

It's also true that doctors hand Bupe out like Halloween candy. Even telehealth gives it out with a 10 minute phone call.

What do you guys think my transition does should be, either broken up throughout the day or a single daily dose?

I've heard such conflicting info on that. One doctor said 2mg 3x a day, another said 8mg 2x a day, so I'm curious of the real world knowledge from the community here.

Thanks to all who've replied. So happy I joined this place. I think you guys have saved lives.

Any dose over 4 mg is pretty pointless and a waste.

There’s belief that based on the ratio of the metabolite norbupe (much stronger opioid than bupe) 2 mg doses give the strongest high because you have less bupe around to block the norbupe

Drs prescribing this have no fucking idea what they are talking about for the most part. Listen to other addicts more than the doctor I would say

 

[AddictedAndHatingIt]

Any dose over 4 mg is pretty pointless and a waste.

There’s belief that based on the ratio of the metabolite norbupe (much stronger opioid than bupe) 2 mg doses give the strongest high because you have less bupe around to block the norbupe

Drs prescribing this have no fucking idea what they are talking about for the most part. Listen to other addicts more than the doctor I would say

I'm not really looking to get high off it, I just want to live my life and not have withdrawals.

When you say 2mg, do you mean per day or per dose and multiple doses per day?

Sorry, just trying to understand.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Being on bupe eliminates all the stress of "running out" of opiates…which to me is the worst thing about being hooked on opiates.

They prescribe easily 5 to 10x more than even the heaviest addict needs to stay well so you never run out

This is definitely true. It's a phenomenon that I really love to discuss. We have all of these people out here doing Opioids for their entire lives, hustling, stealing, worrying... the majority of these people will never experience the feeling of being free from the worry of their next hit.

I was in Asia teaching and that was my first experience with having ready access to as much drugs as I wanted with money left over to live comfortably. It's only when you're in that position that you can begin to unravel you're true, objective relationship with the drug, outside of other influences like money, the law, family and so on.

I remember using like 5g per day of Morphine/Heroin for 2-3 months while I was there. The Heroin was doing nothing for me. I was just numb. I would wake up from a stupor, do another shot, go back to sleep and it was an endless cycle of that. I remember feeling panicked when I realized I felt shitty inside and out and that there was no amount of Heroin that could take these feelings away. It's an experience a lot of people in the United States will never have.

I discuss the idea of Heroin prescription programs with people and most laugh at the idea that a person on Heroin would decide on their own to stop using Heroin, but it happens. This sort of self-searching is something that is impossible to do when you're doing the full-time job of hustling to stay afloat.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Bupe is best dosed only once per day or even better every two days but it’s often prescribed even in 2 or 3 doses daily (at least in my country). I think that practice is alive only because it’s given out as candy. And I believe only reason it’s given in doses up to 24 or even 32mg is that taking it in such heavy doses (and multiple times a day) to eliminate chance that person will feel effects of other opiates and to keep people hooked up on bupe (as that’s still considered HR as it turns people away from street and dangers it brings).

 

[Juicewrldfan]

Suboxone can be helpful. I was an IV user and it helped me, BUT I don’t believe in maintenance or long term treatment. A few months maybe…but really I think that a couple weeks is good enough to get you some stability and off to a good start.

Suboxone can be helpful. Nothing really to be afraid of except long term treatment.

 

[AddictedAndHatingIt]

This is definitely true. It's a phenomenon that I really love to discuss. We have all of these people out here doing Opioids for their entire lives, hustling, stealing, worrying... the majority of these people will never experience the feeling of being free from the worry of their next hit.

I was in Asia teaching and that was my first experience with having ready access to as much drugs as I wanted with money left over to live comfortably. It's only when you're in that position that you can begin to unravel you're true, objective relationship with the drug, outside of other influences like money, the law, family and so on.

I remember using like 5g per day of Morphine/Heroin for 2-3 months while I was there. The Heroin was doing nothing for me. I was just numb. I would wake up from a stupor, do another shot, go back to sleep and it was an endless cycle of that. I remember feeling panicked when I realized I felt shitty inside and out and that there was no amount of Heroin that could take these feelings away. It's an experience a lot of people in the United States will never have.

I discuss the idea of Heroin prescription programs with people and most laugh at the idea that a person on Heroin would decide on their own to stop using Heroin, but it happens. This sort of self-searching is something that is impossible to do when you're doing the full-time job of hustling to stay afloat.

I can actually see this point, because I myself am there, but with Oxy/Hydro.

I am fortunate to have a great career and it affords me a level of expendable income that has allowed access to real (not fake fentanyl) pills that most people can't attain. But with this access came the realization that I don't like what it's done to me, I don't enjoy the experience any longer, and I'm only taking it because I fear withdrawals and the mental anguish that comes with it.

If withdrawal was just physical I could easily do this but it's the mental side of things that really scares me. I become very depressed and even start questioning the worth of my own existence when I am in withdrawal. I've never made it past 36 hours going cold turkey.

The other side of having a career like I do is that I can't take 30 days off and go to rehab so I have to take these other options and do the best I can to get to a place where withdrawals or manageable. Suboxone or Sublicade are the best options for me at the moment.

Bupe is best dosed only once per day or even better every two days but it’s often prescribed even in 2 or 3 doses daily (at least in my country). I think that practice is alive only because it’s given out as candy. And I believe only reason it’s given in doses up to 24 or even 32mg is that taking it in such heavy doses (and multiple times a day) to eliminate chance that person will feel effects of other opiates and to keep people hooked up on bupe (as that’s still considered HR as it turns people away from street and dangers it brings).

I'm in California so they do hand this out like candy and I probably have a 3-month supply of this stuff just sitting around that I've never touched. And I say 3 month supply based off of 2 mg three times a day for 3 months.

Suboxone can be helpful. I was an IV user and it helped me, BUT I don’t believe in maintenance or long term treatment. A few months maybe…but really I think that a couple weeks is good enough to get you some stability and off to a good start.

Suboxone can be helpful. Nothing really to be afraid of except long term treatment.

My goal would be to be on this medication for no more than 4 months and I'm being realistic because the actual treatment is supposed to be 3 months and one week. One week of Suboxone pills to stabilize and then 3 months getting one injection per month of Sublicade.

My issue is that the dosages doctors recommend are all over the board, so I don't really know what would be effective and if it's 2 mg a day that would be great. But if it's 6 mg a day that's a different story.

I would love to hear what dosages actually work for people on here and if there's a schedule that also is helpful I would love to hear about that too.

Thank you to everyone for their input and replies. You all have been immensely helpful.