Mental Health Is daily benzo use at therapeutic doses dangerous?

[cdin]

Over a month so i know.
Why do some people assume that everyone taking a benzo is addicted or abusing them? Not everyone gets addicted and they are useful for anxiety . Not everyone abuses them either. I don't even see how they can be fun, no high just relaxed and sleepy. I also am taking 2mg less a day then i was 10 years ago by MY choice. i never did that with opiates.

there's definitely a genetic component. And some people can drink a half gallon of whiskey a day and quit with no problem. the reason people get so up tight is not because everyone assumes a benzo user is an addict -- it's because the VAST majority of people that do use them regularly become dependent and incur damage to their GABA system. This wouldn't be such a problem if the GABA system wasn't such a big deal, but as anyone who has experienced them can attest - benzo wds are a whole other beast to ope wds etc. they last months, are entirely crippling and often leave you permanently changed afterwards (was the case for me for sure). I don't think (at least for me) that i jump to saying "maybe don't do that" because i assume or gaf that someone is addicted/abusing -- i say that because if someone had for me, and if i can prevent anyone from experiencing the hell i went through, then it's worth it to drop a note to make sure they understand.

 

[Jen X]

also really depends on the benzo -- a lot of people skip days on clonazepam for example and think "oh, I'm good" .... the half life of diazepam and clonazepam 140 and 40 hours respectively - so unless you make it significantly past the half life, you really don't know if you are good or not.

I spent 45 days in jail a few years ago with zero withdrawal from clonzepam so i know i'm good

 

[Xorkoth]

Wow, that's great that you're able to avoid withdrawals from it. I think there must be a genetic component that causes some people to avoid withdrawals, because I have talked to many, many people on here who have a hell of a time coming off a daily prescribed benzo prescription that they don't abuse. I have had very light withdrawals from benzos once, it might even have just been intense rebound anxiety coupled with a stimulant comedown. I definitely have insomnia when I have taken them 2 days in a row or more, and stop.

 

[cdin]

Wow, that's great that you're able to avoid withdrawals from it. I think there must be a genetic component that causes some people to avoid withdrawals, because I have talked to many, many people on here who have a hell of a time coming off a daily prescribed benzo prescription that they don't abuse. I have had very light withdrawals from benzos once, it might even have just been intense rebound anxiety coupled with a stimulant comedown. I definitely have insomnia when I have taken them 2 days in a row or more, and stop.

given the variability genetics play in experiencing severe alcohol withdrawal symptoms, and considering that benzos operate on along the same lines, I think this is very strongly the case. My entire family just stops drinking by age 30 or so, because our GABA systems are so naturally defective/we're so anxiety prone and the systems degrade so quickly that we just stop. we all get AWS super easily/get shaky after just a couple drinks --- vs some people ive known ( a lot of eastern european descent) that can just house a handle of vodka a day for months, have a great time, stop, also be just fine. so there's a huge spectrum of how humans can do with this.

The thing is, we don't have a diagnostic test or anything to tell who is or is not susceptible. given the absolutely debilitating nature of bzd withdrawal, i just dont think it's worth it to roll the dice. Also worth noting - for two decades i could take benzos off and on no problem, not even a hint of WD... until it GOT me. BAD. so i think genetics and length of use/patterns of use all play a roll here.

 

[Xorkoth]

That sucks, yeah I know people who get alcohol withdrawals any time they drink more than one night. For me, I used to drink every night, heavily, with few breaks, for long periods of time. Never had anything resembling a withdrawal other than shit hangovers with a bit of trembling in the morning, but it never went beyond that. I had a little rebound from using clonazolam for 5 days in a row once though, it was pretty bad. Scared me quite a bit and I took a break from GABAergics for a while. Etizolam has never done that to me but I am careful. I tend to use it more at times like now when I'm trying to come off opiates, but I have rules. I don't find it recreational, it's just for sleep. I am worried that I might cross that line though. it's just so hard when you can't sleep, so tempting to dose 1mg of etizolam and sleep like a baby.

I'll keep your words in mind.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

you also don't want to take one that lasts too long either

this puzzles me.
why is it that diazepam is recommended for the end of tapering benzos?
thanks i am a bit confused with the information

 

[plumbus-nine]

My first real med was lorazepam, in an inpatient setting, they gave me 3x 1mg as needed and of course I was often in need (knew nothing about drugs back then but you don't need to know nothing to want more). Three months past, I was transferred to another ward where the doctor was some major in military and drove Porsche, stated that 'I was dependent' and put me cold turkey. What followed was easily the worst time I've ever had, panic attacks out of the blue for several months, couldn't sleep without television etc..

Opposing to that, I was again three months on 7.5mg zopiclone per night for sleep, also stopped suddenly and had no withdrawal/rebound at all.

What do we learn from that? Time is relevant. If your benzo of choice has a short half life of a few hours, you can do it daily for maybe long amounts of time but when it begins to occupy the majority or all time then things go downwards.

 

[Xorkoth]

this puzzles me.
why is it that diazepam is recommended for the end of tapering benzos?
thanks i am a bit confused with the information

The longer the half life is, the more time your receptors are filled from a single dose. So if you're trying to avoid developing dependence, short half life benzos are your friend, assuming you're not going to be dosing every time it wears off (like if you're trying to dose once per day, for sleep, or maybe to combat anxiety at work or something like that), because instead of being affected almost all the time, you're spending 2/3 of all of your time not on a benzo (since it wears off quickly and you're only dosing once a day).

However, if you're already dependent, long half life benzos make it easier to taper because there are less ups and downs. It makes it easier to stick to one daily dosage when the drug lasts a whole day and gradually wears off, and it also makes it easier to wean yourself off of constantly dosing something multiple times a day.

 

[Nas47]

Doses not exceeding 10-15mg daily for me are not dangerous.Cannot overdosed,but this is true,if you dont use opies or alcohol.Not good for people with severe depression.Not good,if you have severe liver disease at all

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

It makes it easier to stick to one daily dosage when the drug lasts a whole day and gradually wears off, and it also makes it easier to wean yourself off of constantly dosing something multiple times a day.

I think it may be here. A lot of my "addictions" are at least half a habit. The meetups, movements, the ritual, the action, man! If this is taken away and replaced with something else (optimally healthy) the pulls of what is left behind is a lot less.
Good shit, X. Thanks

 

[Xorkoth]

Doses not exceeding 10-15mg daily for me are not dangerous.Cannot overdosed,but this is true,if you dont use opies or alcohol.Not good for people with severe depression.Not good,if you have severe liver disease at all

Depends on the benzo, with Valium/diazepam, 10mg is a low dose, but with Xanax/alprazolam, it is a very high dose, and taking 10-15mg a day will produce horrific withdrawals and even possibly seizures when stopping.

I would say that from what I have seen, most people develop dependence at any dose of benzos when they take them every day, even a very low dose. if you develop dependence, you will produce long-term changes to your GABA system which will make it a lot harder to not feel anxious without benzos for a long time.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

Daily benzo use over a month or two will definitively leave one in the lurch to be crushed beneath the wheel. The level of "discomfort" will depend on dosage.
My experience.
Peace

 

[Nas47]

Depends on the benzo, with Valium/diazepam, 10mg is a low dose, but with Xanax/alprazolam, it is a very high dose, and taking 10-15mg a day will produce horrific withdrawals and even possibly seizures when stopping.

I would say that from what I have seen, most people develop dependence at any dose of benzos when they take them every day, even a very low dose. if you develop dependence, you will produce long-term changes to your GABA system which will make it a lot harder to not feel anxious without benzos for a long time.

Yeah talking about Valium.10mg valium is about 0.5 mg alprazolam.Xanax is potent.In big books is written that daily use of any benzo lead to addiction after 3 months.Once quit valium after years of use on low dose.As i remembered just changed it with lyrica at 150 mg daily for a while.Did not feel any withdrawl.At this time quitting as well and kratom at big doses cold turkey....so its hard to say is there some withdrawl from benzo or all was from kratom...but it last long.

 

[Xorkoth]

kratom withdrawal doesn't last real long, just 5-7 days. You probably had some withdrawal from both, honestly.

 

[Deborahb]

I have been on clonzepam for 15ish years and never got high just releif so I wouldn't say I'm addicted. Definitely dependant though.
It's all that works for my symptoms of ptsd so I don't even think of stopping.
Diazapam or clonzepam would last longer so you wouldn't wake in a couple hours. I get 8hrs sleep a night.

I have been on clonazepam for over 35 years. I was tried on many others before getting this one and have stayed on it but I do have days where I admit I abuse it then have to lower dose on other days. I asked if I could switch to something else due to severe stress in my life and so much tolerance now and was told no so here I am and here I go on....

 

[Deborahb]

Can anyone on here suggest a replacement for clonazepam 8 mg. a day? I used to be on 16 mg but went to addiction treatment. The problem is after 35 years it is not giving me what help I need during a stressful time now I am facing a very serious surgery and am terrified that the clonazepam that they said should replace the medication they give you before surgery to calm your nerves will not do anything for me as they said it would be .50 of a mg. Yes I could take more of my own stash beforehand but will it kill me when they add the anesthetic to the mix?

 

[Dextro .45]

I have generalised anxiety disorder, social anxiety, fibromyalgia and insomnia and take around 40mg valium a day mostly at night, sometimes an extra 10mg here and there in the day too, and co codamol, because my doctor won't prescribe what people need, benzos are for anxiety and insomina I have both, but not allowed benzos, I have a chronic pain condition untreated by doctors to scared to prescribe me meds as I have a bad reaction to everything they've tried me on, antidepressants and pregabalin, only thing I don't get side effects from are vallies and opioids which they won't give me so self medicate like do many people have to do

Alot of people will get withdrawl yes, but some, a few don't seem to but its rare

So frustrating and such a b@tch….yes, I get it….it’s a liability for the prescribing physician, but once your stable on a dose of Methadone 80mg daily for 7+ years ….you’re a very low risk patient, I’ve been using low therapeutic doses of benzodiazepines for the same amount of time…still alive, safe & responsible

Methadone 80mg taken at 8am in morning prior to work…..home at 5/6pm, prior to dinner I’ll take Methadone 10mg, Valium 10mg, Alprazolam 0.5mg, Gabapentin 300mg, Cannabis Indica 10mg ….and I’m GOLDEN LOL

Enjoy my healthy, hardy meal with my gf as the cocktail onset is being felt lol….after dinner enjoy a chocolate coconut treat with a Premium cold coffee espresso with a fresh premium Belmont cigarette and my CNS has been melted with pleasurable relaxation and mild euphoric bliss, all cozy on the couch with my girl, crackling fireplace, good documentary on the 65” 4K smart tv with Google & Netflix to keep us entertained

Sometimes taking out my fully registered & legal Beretta M9 or Colt M1911-A1 .45 (unloaded) to clean and oil on the coffee table as we watch Netflix lol. It’s like a therapeutic session for me

 

[OCD2DOC]

There have been studies tentatively showing a rise in alzheimers risk relative to amount of benzo use. It hasn’t been proven that benzos cause dementia, but that would definitely alarm me on long term use.

The mom of a very close friend of mine had to go to a nursing home full-time after her Alzheimer's worsened last year. I was around her a lot when she was home. It was heartbreaking to watch her decline. I know correlation does not imply causation, but I know for a fact she was on xanax for like 30 years or more.
That's not necessarily the reason I recently quit, but I would be lying if I said it wasn't in the back of my mind.
I had enough mysterious side effects pop up during the time I used xanax that it was enough for me to know my body had had enough.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Yes.

 

[deficiT]

OD -----> MH per MH mod request