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LSA vs. LSD effects

CupcakeRave

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Mar 20, 2011
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About a year ago I had an encounter with LSA, I consumed eight hawaiian baby woodrose seeds with alchohal and was sent to the hospital after my consumpion. I was talking to myself, and had a weird and horrible hangovery feeling for two days and felt feverish and panicky.

My question is I want to try LSD this week and I don't want a relapse of that to happen, because the LSA trip made me feel horrible and I don't know if it'd be the same experience sensation wise with LSD

My experience with drugs are morphine, vicodin, weed, lsa, adderall, lexapro, spice, and alchohal
 

SpecialK_

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Mar 11, 2010
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LSA = Nausea + Psychedelic headspace
LSD = Visual trip + Psychedelic headspace

You'll find LSA just really puts you in that dream like state with a slightly introspective mindset. LSD completely blows that open in my opinion, LSA is comparable to a real low dose of acid with nausea. After trying LSD you are unlikely to find a real usage of LSA again unless there is a drought of psychedelics and you're looking for something new.
It's possible someone might disagree and find LSA more rewarding. Also, there are numerous extraction methods to make the nausea not as noticeable. But if you have a steady supply of LSD the side effects of LSA really just rule it out.
 

Solipsis

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Welcome to Bluelight and PD!!

If you had effect of those seeds I take it you werent on Lexapro at the time right?

Yeah LSA is indeed dreamy in my opinion, I find it very different from LSD. With LSA's I feel like having a strong body high and it can be pretty weird but not all that interesting as a trip.
LSD on the other hand is epic. But don't take psychedelics if you are still on Lexapro.

Extractions might reduce part of the nausea but another part of it is just from the LSA's themselves it seems.

There is already a thread on this, I am quite positive so expect them to be merged (combined) in a few days. There will remain a link
for a little while so you can find it. :)

As said in my signature below: be sure to start at the Beginners FAQ - there might be nice information for you there about some basics.
 

Survived Abortion

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LSA is amazing. Very visual, very beautiful, very dreamy. I'm not really sure about optimum dosages with HBWR. I've heard people mention anywhere from 8-25 seeds for a good trip. You need a couple or three hundred Morning Glory Seeds; my sweet spot is around 360 seeds.

If you're getting ill you need to review exactly what you're taking, as HBWR or MG shouldn't affect you that way by themselves. Combining alcohol may make you feel worse. Also bear in mind that some seeds are treated with pesticides etc. You need to find organic seeds or ones that haven't been treated. The ones I buy from Wilkinson's or B&Q are just fine, and consistently result in a very strong trip easily rivalling the intensity of LSD.
 

CupcakeRave

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Mar 20, 2011
Messages
6
Welcome to Bluelight and PD!!

If you had effect of those seeds I take it you werent on Lexapro at the time right?

Yeah LSA is indeed dreamy in my opinion, I find it very different from LSD. With LSA's I feel like having a strong body high and it can be pretty weird but not all that interesting as a trip.
LSD on the other hand is epic. But don't take psychedelics if you are still on Lexapro.

Extractions might reduce part of the nausea but another part of it is just from the LSA's themselves it seems.

There is already a thread on this, I am quite positive so expect them to be merged (combined) in a few days. There will remain a link
for a little while so you can find it. :)

As said in my signature below: be sure to start at the Beginners FAQ - there might be nice information for you there about some basics.

i wasn't on lexapro but i was feverish and hangovery from the LSA, no visuals, just basically a sickly feeling.i did mix it with alchohal though
 

dougebfresh

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Jan 18, 2011
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the comparison of lsd and lsa is silly.. they are nothing alike.. it would be wise if you are mentally unstable on such a weak psychedelic to stay very far away from a powerful substance such as lsd..
 

CupcakeRave

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Mar 20, 2011
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the comparison of lsd and lsa is silly.. they are nothing alike.. it would be wise if you are mentally unstable on such a weak psychedelic to stay very far away from a powerful substance such as lsd..

i realize this, i'm talking about bad side effect wise though (physically, like fever and painful nausea, heart palitations, etc)
 
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Survived Abortion

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It's not a silly comparison at all - these are very similar ergot compounds with a similar pharmacology. It's a legitimate question, especially if you are feeling ill effects from something that should feel pleasant.
 

MetanoiaMan

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Took LSA once after making an alcohol extraction. It was very slow and lugubrious. Made me want to lie down. Not very psychedelic. Felt like I could leave my body through the top of my head. Really nothing like any other psychedelic I ever did. Not visual, not imaginative. Made me breathe super slowly....
 

Chemical Wizard

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Nov 15, 2008
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When I did hbwr it was nausea for 3 hours, and then I vomited quite a huge satisfying barf. After that I lied on an air mattress in a forest, enjoyed a sedating body buzz and a mild psychedelic headspace with visual and aural enhancement but visuals weren't really that prominent. It was pretty euphoric after the nausea stage, but I don't know if I'm ever going to repeat the experience because the nausea was pretty intense.

Quite a different animal from lsd
 

Fetus Fetish

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Lsa is very dreamy but has pretty mild visuals and a lot less euphoria. I don't take it anymore because for a day after I feel like complete SHIT. Most awful hangover ever.
 

CrypticArc

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If you're talking about morning glory seeds or HBWR, they often contain a whole bunch of ergoloids, not just LSA. This means that two people can think they're taking the same thing, but have the composition be drastically different based on genetics and environmental factors. That's why a lot of people have different experiences with what they call "LSA", some people find it to be a lot more visual or euphoric while others don't get much out of it besides nausea. When I did it, my stuff was very visual and very dreamy, with some of the deepest euphoria I've ever experienced, much like a "bumpier ride" version of LSD.
 

Speed King

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Anyone that is interested in LSA from Morning Glories or HBWS, should read all the faqs, and do some research on Erowid. You will find out most everything you need to know. I have used Heavenly Blue MGS and have had nice, lightweight acid trips from it. I don't know it of hand, but there is an extraction where you grind up your seeds in a coffee grinder, soak them in grain alcohol, or something close to it, let it soak for a certain amount of time( I forgot that part) and filter all the solids out via a few coffee filters. What you are left with are all the active ingredients absorbed into the alcohol.
When finished, a sip equals a trip. I don't know the exact dosage, but I know it's not very large. I hope I helped contribute.

BTW, this stuff would go great at a a Primus concert.
 

yessa

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Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Messages
43
Lsa is very dreamy but has pretty mild visuals and a lot less euphoria. I don't take it anymore because for a day after I feel like complete SHIT. Most awful hangover ever.
If you're talking about morning glory seeds or HBWR, they often contain a whole bunch of ergoloids, not just LSA. This means that two people can think they're taking the same thing, but have the composition be drastically different based on genetics and environmental factors. That's why a lot of people have different experiences with what they call "LSA", some people find it to be a lot more visual or euphoric while others don't get much out of it besides nausea. When I did it, my stuff was very visual and very dreamy, with some of the deepest euphoria I've ever experienced, much like a "bumpier ride" version of LSD.

I think most people make the big mistake, that they assume these psychedelic vine seeds and LSA are basically the same. But as CrypticArc indicated there are also other ergolines in the seeds.

According to Hofmann's "later" opinion the effects stem mainly from LSA, LSH and ergometrine. And e.g. in fresher seeds there's mainly LSH (in relation to LSA). Only in old seeds, the LSA is dominant. This is because the fungi on the plant can only biosynthesize LSH (not LSA), and LSA is then a decomposition product of LSH over time. Ergometrine is the precursor/intermediate in the biosynthesis of LSH and is so always also present. But the amount of ergometrine can strongly vary (depending on its production rate and how quickly it gets further converted to LSH). And yes, it is often not in amounts in the seeds to be considered a strong contributor of effects. So here I could at least a bit understand neglecting it's effects in naming.
I got the impression many people are wrongly assuming that LSA is the only active ingredient in the seeds responsible for the effects.
I don't really know how this myth settled so solid.
Maybe because Hofmann wrongly assumed in his very first publication that LSA is the main component, but there were so many other publications following, where he corrected his mistake, that it's hard to believe this never got any attention at all.
So I'm really wondering why people are using these terms basically synonymous.
Hmm...Maybe because many people seem to wrongly assume that these extraction teks only deliver LSA? But these deliver at most (e.g. Kash's a/b extraction) a total alkaloid extraction. Although depending on PH and duration during the base step, it will convert a substantial amount of the LSH into LSA (which was likely also a reason why Hofmann came to the wrong conclusion in his first publication).

To get "pure LSA" there's no way around a more sophisticated procedure (e.g. like column chromatography), as their chemical properties are too similar.
Regarding the effects the different contributors have on their own (as derived from studies/experiments):
  • LSA: Is mainly a sedativum and rather dysphoric (although stimulating and euphoric in very low doses), non visual (even in high doses), putting you in a dreamy, mentally kinda disconnected, self-reflective state. Severe bodily sideeffects on higher dosages (salivation, vomiting, giddiness, diarrhea).
  • Ergometrine: Is visual in higher dosages, where also severe bodily side effects occur. Also headspace is typical "psychedelic" in these high dosages. Has been widely used in medicine in low doses due to its uterotonic effects (nowadays a chemical derivation of it gets used).
  • LSH: Has never been tested by humans. Animal tests showed behavioral effects very similar to LSD. As the molecule is very similar to LAE-32, one might assume it is also visual and "psychedelic" similar to LSD (although less potent), but with a narcotic component (not as strong as LSA).
Quite some people have at least heard of LSH, but have the wrong impression LSH would immediately be converted to LSA "in vivo". You can read this claim in a lot of articles on the net and in books, always claiming that Hofmann stated this. But it seems Hofmann never said this. All reference always Ott, in relation to this statement (which seems already fishy, as noone references Hofmann), as Ott claims this in his book, with a reference to a publication from Hofmann, but in this publication Hofmann nowhere makes this claim. Also in every other publication I could find from him, he never states anything like that, on the contrary he points out specifically also LSH (in every related work since 1971).
I have only one explanation, why Ott came to this conclusion: The translator for the english version of "Die Mutterkornalkaloide" ("the ergot alkaloids") made a huge translation mistake (actually also many more...) and so it read in the english version wrongly that LSH would easily decompose in acidic environments. Maybe Ott concluded from this, this would mean it wouldn't survive the digestive system, and so from Ott's POV Hofmann basically said in this publication, it would immediately decompose. And this would honestly be a correct conclusion, but as said, this was just a translation error, as LSH is quite stable in acidic environments (actually more stable than in neutral conditions!). What LSH cannot stand is alkaline environments and high temps (boiling water will convert it to LSA very quickly, while quite some time at around 56°C don't seem to induce any large conversion yet, as this was part of Gröger's extraction process, boiling the acetone away, where at the end LSH was still dominant), but this isn't a problem "in vivo", as blood is only very slightly alkaline, and the body never gets >56°C temp. Also an analysis after a fatal accident showed LSH in blood and urine after the ingestion of HBWR seeds. So much about the myth LSH gets immediately decomposed "in-vivo".


But back on topic:

Solms made a nice visual comparison chart between LSD, LAE-32, and LSA (LA in the pic), about their differences:
xe08ddst9op21.jpg
 

awesome31311

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Dec 4, 2018
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377
People that say LSA is not visual are wrong. On 20 seeds I have definitely had visual experiences.

LSA is chemically very similar to LSD, in that it can also be absorbed sublingually, deteriorates under light, chlorinated water, causes vasoconstriction, nausea, etc.

However, on LSD, the vasoconstrictive effects and the nausea are not as intense, and the experience is vastly different from LSA. LSA is harder on your mindset from personal experience, it is more "psychotic" than LSD. However, LSD produces more open eyed visuals.
 

yessa

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Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Messages
43
People that say LSA is not visual are wrong. On 20 seeds I have definitely had visual experiences.

Lol, it is pretty obvious you didn't even read what I wrote. I even intentionally bolded the text for a TLDR.

The seeds are visual, but LSA is not. There have been various human studies on pure LSA, and they all concluded that it is non-visual even in very high dosages, where the bodily sideffects were so strong that they had to be treated medically.

But the seeds can be very visual, but this stems from other ergolines in the seeds. IMHO most likely mainly from LSH, as usually there's not much ergometrine in the seeds (of which one does know it's visual in higher dosages).
 

awesome31311

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Dec 4, 2018
Messages
377
Lol, it is pretty obvious you didn't even read what I wrote. I even intentionally bolded the text for a TLDR.

The seeds are visual, but LSA is not. There have been various human studies on pure LSA, and they all concluded that it is non-visual even in very high dosages, where the bodily sideffects were so strong that they had to be treated medically.

But the seeds can be very visual, but this stems from other ergolines in the seeds. IMHO most likely mainly from LSH, as usually there's not much ergometrine in the seeds (of which one does know it's visual in higher dosages).
I must have not done a very pure extraction then because pure lsa has induced visuals in me before

Btw I didn't read your post i wasn't talking about it either
 
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yessa

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Oct 14, 2016
Messages
43
I must have not done a very pure extraction then because pure lsa has induced visuals in me before

The simple explanation is: All the extraction teks you read on the net, do not deliver just pure LSA, although they (wrongly) claim that. Even Kash's tek is just a total alkaloid extraction, and does deliver all ergolines in the seeds. not just LSA. To get pure LSA you need a much more sophisticated tek to separate them, like e.g. column chromatography. The few chemists on the DMT Nexus, who indeed did this, came to exactly the same conclusion as all the scientific human studies: Pure LSA is non-visual.

Btw I didn't read your post i wasn't talking about it either

Well you should at least have looked at the bolded part for your current answer, as it would have explained this to you already from the beginning.
 
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