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- Thread starter HarrytheHead
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I noticed a pattern here. Most people on bluelight that have long term comedowns have a fear of taking medication. Hypochondriacs to the max! You won't fully recover until you fully get over your fears.
I too had that fear. 1 second after I swallowed my first Lexapro I had a panic attack. Then 1 month later after taking the Lexapro all I can say is that I never made a better decision. I would NEVER go the natural route ever again. FUCK THAT. I've seen the craziest shit here that even I got sucked into. People avoiding all the usual SSRI meds, but then trying to find weird unproven SSRE Stablon meds out in France or something thinking it is good for you "unlike SSRIs" haha. Craziest shit ever. Just take the normal meds people.
Also, most people here have the fear of trying caffeine. I too had that fear. I started by eating chocolate. Then one day I went to starbucks got a decaf coffee (which still has some caffeine) and felt nothing afterwards. I been drinking caffeine since whenever I feel like it and have felt no difference whatsoever.
It's all in your head.
I'm just lucky that meds like Lexapro exist. My psychiatrist assured me she will NEVER run out of meds for me and that I have nothing to worry about. There are dozens if not hundreds of different meds to treat anxiety, and she said at the end she can even combine meds if needed making endless possibilities. She treated countless of anxiety patients and never ran out of a formula for treating anxiety.
I can't stress enough how much better it is with meds like Lexapro. So far I've had 0 side effects and it's my 3rd month on it. Let me repeat that, ZERO SIDE EFFECTS.
You know the show Jersey Shore? Stupid show. But one of the guys there has had 4 years of experience being on anti depressants and he eventually treated his issues. You should Google it. There's people that take it for years. Fact is, why go 5 years suffering naturally when you can use meds to temporarily get rid of your issue while working on your self?
Meds won't fix your issue overnight but they will let you run a normal life while you work on getting over your fears. Some people take months, others years. You won't mess up your brain. What you will do is be constantly complaining for months or years going the natural route, which is stupid IMO. I used to believe otherwise but now I've changed my perception on things.
I used to have massive anxiety and I'm on a medium dosage of Lexapro and it's working almost 100%.
Also one pointer - do not take benzos like Xanax. They make things worse. If you are taking them then take my advice - start taking anti depressants like Lexapro while at the same time tappering off the benzos. You'll thank me later.
Now if you guys will excuse me, I have to go whoop some ass in Call of Duty Ghosts.
I too had that fear. 1 second after I swallowed my first Lexapro I had a panic attack. Then 1 month later after taking the Lexapro all I can say is that I never made a better decision. I would NEVER go the natural route ever again. FUCK THAT. I've seen the craziest shit here that even I got sucked into. People avoiding all the usual SSRI meds, but then trying to find weird unproven SSRE Stablon meds out in France or something thinking it is good for you "unlike SSRIs" haha. Craziest shit ever. Just take the normal meds people.
Also, most people here have the fear of trying caffeine. I too had that fear. I started by eating chocolate. Then one day I went to starbucks got a decaf coffee (which still has some caffeine) and felt nothing afterwards. I been drinking caffeine since whenever I feel like it and have felt no difference whatsoever.
It's all in your head.
I'm just lucky that meds like Lexapro exist. My psychiatrist assured me she will NEVER run out of meds for me and that I have nothing to worry about. There are dozens if not hundreds of different meds to treat anxiety, and she said at the end she can even combine meds if needed making endless possibilities. She treated countless of anxiety patients and never ran out of a formula for treating anxiety.
I can't stress enough how much better it is with meds like Lexapro. So far I've had 0 side effects and it's my 3rd month on it. Let me repeat that, ZERO SIDE EFFECTS.
You know the show Jersey Shore? Stupid show. But one of the guys there has had 4 years of experience being on anti depressants and he eventually treated his issues. You should Google it. There's people that take it for years. Fact is, why go 5 years suffering naturally when you can use meds to temporarily get rid of your issue while working on your self?
Meds won't fix your issue overnight but they will let you run a normal life while you work on getting over your fears. Some people take months, others years. You won't mess up your brain. What you will do is be constantly complaining for months or years going the natural route, which is stupid IMO. I used to believe otherwise but now I've changed my perception on things.
I used to have massive anxiety and I'm on a medium dosage of Lexapro and it's working almost 100%.
Also one pointer - do not take benzos like Xanax. They make things worse. If you are taking them then take my advice - start taking anti depressants like Lexapro while at the same time tappering off the benzos. You'll thank me later.
Now if you guys will excuse me, I have to go whoop some ass in Call of Duty Ghosts.
Last edited:
Badroll7
Bluelighter
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pretty interesting. I guess a lot of people are paranoid including myself. I didn't wanna take anything else unnatural in my body after my bad comedown. I've gotten better and still improving daily but I agree that life could have been much easier had I taken Lexapro or an ssri. This website, eating better, and prayer is what has been working for me. I also didn't wanna get hooked on anything. It was hard enough to quit smoking bud. Been taking vitamins and who knows if its playing the placebo effect on me. Maybe it's just time that heals all like everyone says. I also have caffeine lol. You described me pretty much. I'll know when its time. You gotta realize that having a bad roll will make majority of people not wanna take anything man made or unnatural. dude you were on of the people who spoke encouraging words to me. thanks.
This is very true. I believe hypocondria had a large role in my comedown. At the end of the day, you are in charge of your recovery. You can scare yourself by trying to diagnose yourself on the internet or you can find ways to enjoy life.
First Bad Comedown
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- Nov 26, 2010
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My visual alterations never included much 'snow', although there were a few times I saw it.
I think snow might be more common for those who were exposed to bright lights while rolling, which I never was.
However, my changes in vision were quite persistent.
It took about a year before I really accepted the fact that my vision may never go back to 100%.
But it was 90% and that was enough for me.
By a year and a half I was certain I could live with what I had.
But after three years, I can say that my vision still changes a little bit.
It is not completely static. There are days when suddenly I realize my vision is much sharper than I'm used to.
My primary complaint would be that my distant vision and night vision are not acute like they used to be.
I just feel like my eyes are those of an older man.
But there is no snow, and my sharpness has improved a LOT compared to the first year.
It amazes me how my bran continues to change its visual reality.
And even for those with more profound change - it is the easiest persistent symptom to live with.
There are many other possible persistent issues to worry about, vision is not nearly the most concerning.
As far as SSRIs go, I will agree that there is a hypochondriac type response on my part and many others in this forum.
After all, MDMA and SSRIs both target serotonin in the prefrontal cortex and cause a prolactin response in the pituitary gland.
They also both reduce frontal and prefrontal SERT density over time.
There is no doubt in my mind that Lexapro is helping you a lot.
It must feel amazing.
But the medium dose you now take will eventually escalate.
And Lexapro is a damned strong SSRI.
You could have opted for celexa or mirtazipene, to name a few less activating meds.
There is a new one called Vybrid that is supposed to avoid some of the sexual side effects seen with most SSRIs, which may indicate a less damaging effect upon the SERT.
In any event, the fact that an SSRI really made a difference for you only proves that it works for now.
If your doctor is prefacing this journey with the statement "I will never run out of other meds to try" - you should really be asking yourself WHY that statement is being made.
You are being told, in essence, that you may never come off the medication.
First the dosage escalates, then the sexual problems set in.
Then the drug stops working.
Time to switch.
Pray the switch turns out well, because some people have severe reactions.
They can always add lithium to the SSRI to make it start working again.
And some doctors believe it should be used from the beginning to prevent resistance in the first place.
I must admit, the depression and insanity of MDMA induced brain damage is so severe that some people simply cannot follow the path I have.
At times, I can't even believe I survived it. At other times, I still fear it will kill me.
Perhaps for some, a life-long relationship with medications is in fact justified.
There have been patients that lived on Prozac for 20+ years, so at least we know its possible.
Everyone has to make their own decisions.
I would have chosen ECT.
I think snow might be more common for those who were exposed to bright lights while rolling, which I never was.
However, my changes in vision were quite persistent.
It took about a year before I really accepted the fact that my vision may never go back to 100%.
But it was 90% and that was enough for me.
By a year and a half I was certain I could live with what I had.
But after three years, I can say that my vision still changes a little bit.
It is not completely static. There are days when suddenly I realize my vision is much sharper than I'm used to.
My primary complaint would be that my distant vision and night vision are not acute like they used to be.
I just feel like my eyes are those of an older man.
But there is no snow, and my sharpness has improved a LOT compared to the first year.
It amazes me how my bran continues to change its visual reality.
And even for those with more profound change - it is the easiest persistent symptom to live with.
There are many other possible persistent issues to worry about, vision is not nearly the most concerning.
As far as SSRIs go, I will agree that there is a hypochondriac type response on my part and many others in this forum.
After all, MDMA and SSRIs both target serotonin in the prefrontal cortex and cause a prolactin response in the pituitary gland.
They also both reduce frontal and prefrontal SERT density over time.
There is no doubt in my mind that Lexapro is helping you a lot.
It must feel amazing.
But the medium dose you now take will eventually escalate.
And Lexapro is a damned strong SSRI.
You could have opted for celexa or mirtazipene, to name a few less activating meds.
There is a new one called Vybrid that is supposed to avoid some of the sexual side effects seen with most SSRIs, which may indicate a less damaging effect upon the SERT.
In any event, the fact that an SSRI really made a difference for you only proves that it works for now.
If your doctor is prefacing this journey with the statement "I will never run out of other meds to try" - you should really be asking yourself WHY that statement is being made.
You are being told, in essence, that you may never come off the medication.
First the dosage escalates, then the sexual problems set in.
Then the drug stops working.
Time to switch.
Pray the switch turns out well, because some people have severe reactions.
They can always add lithium to the SSRI to make it start working again.
And some doctors believe it should be used from the beginning to prevent resistance in the first place.
I must admit, the depression and insanity of MDMA induced brain damage is so severe that some people simply cannot follow the path I have.
At times, I can't even believe I survived it. At other times, I still fear it will kill me.
Perhaps for some, a life-long relationship with medications is in fact justified.
There have been patients that lived on Prozac for 20+ years, so at least we know its possible.
Everyone has to make their own decisions.
I would have chosen ECT.
MagickalKat777
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^ Lexapro is the more active isomer of citalopram (Celexa). Celexa and Lexapro are pretty similar. Most sources will tell you that the R isomer of citalopram isn't even active, making citalopram pills 50% inactive and 50% escitalopram (Lexapro).
Vilazodone (Viibryd) is another piperazine anti-depressant like trazodone that hasn't been on the market for long. I wouldn't recommend it. I mean phase III clinical trials were completed in 2009. That's just not enough time to establish safety given the fact that other piperazines have some pretty nasty side effects like nefazodone (Serzone) causing liver failure.
Realistically when you have damaged your serotonin system, the LAST thing you should be doing is throwing more serotonergic drugs into the mix.
Vilazodone (Viibryd) is another piperazine anti-depressant like trazodone that hasn't been on the market for long. I wouldn't recommend it. I mean phase III clinical trials were completed in 2009. That's just not enough time to establish safety given the fact that other piperazines have some pretty nasty side effects like nefazodone (Serzone) causing liver failure.
Realistically when you have damaged your serotonin system, the LAST thing you should be doing is throwing more serotonergic drugs into the mix.
You researched so much that you have scared yourselves straight. I read half of your sentence and have NO CLUE what 80% of the words actually mean.
No one knows what really happened, but you are arriving at conclusions that the serotonin system was damaged.
Yet there are people here that have successfully treated themselves with SSRIs in a pretty short time span (3-6 months).
Furthermore, I admit I was one of the people that was getting worse naturally. At first things got better (first few weeks), but then I was getting worse. Partially because I kept researching things and every time I'd research a new theory I'd trigger lots of anxiety. Didn't feel like something was physically damaged like you say. Simply felt like my mind was stuck in a negative loop. Few days after I started Lexapro things already felt better. And in a month I was basically myself.
We'll see..
No one knows what really happened, but you are arriving at conclusions that the serotonin system was damaged.
Yet there are people here that have successfully treated themselves with SSRIs in a pretty short time span (3-6 months).
Furthermore, I admit I was one of the people that was getting worse naturally. At first things got better (first few weeks), but then I was getting worse. Partially because I kept researching things and every time I'd research a new theory I'd trigger lots of anxiety. Didn't feel like something was physically damaged like you say. Simply felt like my mind was stuck in a negative loop. Few days after I started Lexapro things already felt better. And in a month I was basically myself.
We'll see..
MagickalKat777
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SSRIs hurt more than they help.
A number of members have gotten on SSRIs just to find it next to impossible to come off. You find most of them staying in "The Dark Side" forum now (if they post at all) because they don't want to talk about the wonders of MDMA or other drugs anymore and are more focused on trying to get off of the prescription train.
If I had known back when I started with antidepressants what I know now (like the fact that none of them besides the old and dangerous tricyclic antidepressants are significantly more effective than placebo but have a much higher rate of side effects than placebo and have a nice lovely withdrawal as icing on the cake), I would have told my doctor to take a long walk off of a short cliff. The same thing goes for benzodiazepines.
We have all associated a worsening of symptoms with our condition getting worse when the truth is that symptoms worsening is part of the healing process and medicating the symptoms away just means you'll have to deal with it longer or end up kicking it to a different level entirely. This goes for things like a fever as well. Taking a pain reliever for a low-grade fever actually weakens the body even more as a fever is a sign the body is sick and is trying to heal itself. Obviously if your fever is dangerous, you should take measures to reduce it and the same thing applies to actual dangerous symptoms after drug abuse but taking an SSRI because you overdid it with serotonergics is like taking 800mg of ibuprofen because you have a temperature of 99 degrees. It is something that goes away on its own with proper diet, exercise, etc.
A number of members have gotten on SSRIs just to find it next to impossible to come off. You find most of them staying in "The Dark Side" forum now (if they post at all) because they don't want to talk about the wonders of MDMA or other drugs anymore and are more focused on trying to get off of the prescription train.
If I had known back when I started with antidepressants what I know now (like the fact that none of them besides the old and dangerous tricyclic antidepressants are significantly more effective than placebo but have a much higher rate of side effects than placebo and have a nice lovely withdrawal as icing on the cake), I would have told my doctor to take a long walk off of a short cliff. The same thing goes for benzodiazepines.
We have all associated a worsening of symptoms with our condition getting worse when the truth is that symptoms worsening is part of the healing process and medicating the symptoms away just means you'll have to deal with it longer or end up kicking it to a different level entirely. This goes for things like a fever as well. Taking a pain reliever for a low-grade fever actually weakens the body even more as a fever is a sign the body is sick and is trying to heal itself. Obviously if your fever is dangerous, you should take measures to reduce it and the same thing applies to actual dangerous symptoms after drug abuse but taking an SSRI because you overdid it with serotonergics is like taking 800mg of ibuprofen because you have a temperature of 99 degrees. It is something that goes away on its own with proper diet, exercise, etc.
dpd_mnk92
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I think SSRIs can be helpful to people, like you, for whom symptoms are/ were psychological. SSRIs will make things worse if some damage has occurred, though.
This isn't useful information though as it is VERY HARD to know whether or not your experience is ONLY psychological. The long term comedown experience is just as "real" for hypochondriacs. If someone tells you that you are creating all your life-altering problems out of thin air, you'd probably tell them to fuck off. So how do you single out those that are suitable for SSRI treatment? In other words, there is also no way of knowing whether SSRIs are a good call until you've taken them for a few months - a risk which played out well for you, but won't for most imo.
Wow are you guys some expert scientists!
There is not a single evidence that MDMA causes any physical damage, let alone damage from a few uses or even a single use. Magicalkalkat is a fear monger. I am wondering, do any of you get your news and information from Infowars.com by any chance?
Also as far as the dark side forum is concerned. There's people that can't ween off of alcohol their entire life. That's nothing new. You can be addicted and dependant to anything in life, not just SSRIs. Just so you know I decided to go the SSRI route when a user here mentioned how he treated his symtoms which were almost identical to mine after 3 months of SSRI use. He is SSRI free now.
Most people that have recovered or nearly fully recovered always say that part of their recovery was staying off of bluelight...hmm...I wonder why.
PS
To Zebrafish: I am trying to PM you but your inbox is full. :/
There is not a single evidence that MDMA causes any physical damage, let alone damage from a few uses or even a single use. Magicalkalkat is a fear monger. I am wondering, do any of you get your news and information from Infowars.com by any chance?
Also as far as the dark side forum is concerned. There's people that can't ween off of alcohol their entire life. That's nothing new. You can be addicted and dependant to anything in life, not just SSRIs. Just so you know I decided to go the SSRI route when a user here mentioned how he treated his symtoms which were almost identical to mine after 3 months of SSRI use. He is SSRI free now.
Most people that have recovered or nearly fully recovered always say that part of their recovery was staying off of bluelight...hmm...I wonder why.
PS
To Zebrafish: I am trying to PM you but your inbox is full. :/
dpd_mnk92
Bluelighter
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Okay, you got us - we are all delusional hypochondriacs.. ShytK is right about everything, everyone else is wrong. Except:
1) There are AS MANY (or probably MORE studies) which show that MDMA is Neurotoxic as there are studies showing the contrary. The ones which show that there is no damage are typically conducted in laboratory settings with low doses of pure pharma-grade MDMA. For every one study you link showing how safe MDMA is, I'll show you show you several which suggest the opposite to be true.
2) MDMA is DEFINITELY neurotoxic when mixed with some other drugs, which is responsible for a lot of the problems seen on this board. Are these people imagining their problems too?
3) Why are there so many fucked up people on the Ecstasy Discussion board, not the others? Does this show anything? (answer:... yes, it does!)
4) How do you explain physical symptoms such as HPPD, deafening tinnitus, Bruxism (Symptoms that somehow began before I even had a bluelight account)
5) Why does a harm reduction board exist for MDMA? (bonus question: why are you a member of this board? If you truly believe MDMA is harmless, you're clearly just gonna spend a whole lot of time on bluelight arguing. What is the point? Maybe that is the point....)
This problem is partly psychological for everyone, fully psychological for some (like you), therefore staying off bluelight is useful for almost everyone as it addresses this one aspect of the problem. I have taken a few extended bluelight breaks, trying to live my life etc, and guess what? I did not magically recover! So i decided to come back and help others who are struggling with similar issues.
I think you should ask yourself why you dislike negative opinions about MDMA, even though you are taking medication to address the problems it has caused you. There are obviously reasons, and the reasons are probably obvious.
I have no qualms with your decision to take SSRIs. If you think they work, and it does appear to work well for you, then I'm happy you have found a solution. Just don't go around a harm reduction board arguing about how ecstasy is harmless to people whose lives have been harmed by it. Even if you are right, what is the god damn point? Your won't win.
Amazing that these things have to be pointed out... Lol
Well I never said it was harmless. I said it was never proven to cause physical damage after a few uses. There is a difference. Obviously all of us with a long term comedown are "harmed". It obviously created some sort of trauma otherwise I wouldn't even be here or on SSRIs in the first place. It is you and MagicKat that are jumping to conclusions that there is a physical damage done and that SSRIs will increase the damage.
You say you've taken breaks off BL and still have problems. I got an idea, how about trying an SSRI?
You've taken great steps to try to fend off your symptoms. Basically you're taking the complex route to try to find a solution when the answer is right in front of you.
dpd_mnk92
Bluelighter
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- 181
Well I never said it was harmless. I said it was never proven to cause physical damage after a few uses. There is a difference. Obviously all of us with a long term comedown are "harmed". It obviously created some sort of trauma otherwise I wouldn't even be here or on SSRIs in the first place. It is you and MagicKat that are jumping to conclusions that there is a physical damage done and that SSRIs will increase the damage.
You say you've taken breaks off BL and still have problems. I got an idea, how about trying an SSRI?
You're twisting your own words now and have ignored most of my post due to apparent reading difficulties. You said: "There is not a single evidence that MDMA causes any physical damage, let alone damage from a few uses or even a single use."
Now reread my points 1-5 and notice that they are ALL are arguments that physical damage, not general harm, can and does occur. Ill copy and paste them for convenience:
1) There are AS MANY (or probably MORE studies) which show that MDMA is Neurotoxic as there are studies showing the contrary. The ones which show that there is no damage are typically conducted in laboratory settings with low doses of pure pharma-grade MDMA. For every one study you link showing how safe MDMA is, I'll show you show you several which suggest the opposite to be true.
2) MDMA is DEFINITELY neurotoxic when mixed with some other drugs, which is responsible for a lot of the problems seen on this board. Are these people imagining their problems too?
3) Why are there so many fucked up people on the Ecstasy Discussion board, not the others? Does this show anything? (answer:... yes, it does!)
4) How do you explain physical symptoms such as HPPD, deafening tinnitus, Bruxism (Symptoms that somehow began before I even had a bluelight account)
5) Why does a harm reduction board exist for MDMA? (bonus question: why are you a member of this board? If you truly believe MDMA is harmless, you're clearly just gonna spend a whole lot of time on bluelight arguing. What is the point? Maybe that is the point....)
I am not jumping to any conclusions. Any drugs will hinder recovery if some physical damage has been done. Plenty of studies to confirm this. Alcohol, caffeine etc all have a big impact on recovery for TBI, which is often just damage localised to one area. Now imagine the effect SSRIs, a drug which specifically affects serotonin, would have on someone with a slightly damaged serotonin network.
Just because your issues were because of anxiety, and anxiety only, doesn't mean EVERYONES issues are. I will not take SSRIs as I have spoken to a lot of people who got worse after taking them. I haven't spoken to anyone who has gotten worse being sober (after mdma abuse). When you view it in this way, the smart thing to do is obvious.
Most people that got worse from SSRIs are because they took it for 2 days. The first few days and weeks are obviously worse. I spoken to a lot too and the conclusion was that none of them went for over a few weeks. (The ones that reported feeling like "shit" from SSRIs).
I'm just saying. I followed the advice of the BL people like you for first few months and my condition was not getting better. Then I did the opposite of what you said and all of a sudden I am way better. I am also here to tell people to not always listen to what is posted here because it may do them more harm than good - which is what happened to me. We'll see how it all plays out, but my new way of life is to not listen to the bullshit posted on forums because apparently that hasn't worked out for me in the past.
I was also taking advice to take Magnesium Citrate and Valerian Root to help me sleep. Apparently I was getting crazy nightmares every night, even if I had a normal good day. I thought OMG what haoppened to my brain. As it turns out the Magnesium Citrate is known to create nightmares, thus it was doing more harm - yet there was so many people recommending Magnesium and a few that recommended the Citrate. At one point I was taking 600-800mg of Valerian at night. Then I said I will go cold turkey, thought I had a heart attack that night when I stopped taking it. Had to rethink my strategy and ween off it / convince myself slowly that it wasn't doing anything good. And now I am Magnesium free / Valerian free / insane vitamins/supplements free. All I take is the SSRI and that's all I need and when time comes I'll eventually figure out a way to ween off that too.
There's alot experience teaches. When you get on an SSRI and stay there steadily for a few months then let me know.
I'm just saying. I followed the advice of the BL people like you for first few months and my condition was not getting better. Then I did the opposite of what you said and all of a sudden I am way better. I am also here to tell people to not always listen to what is posted here because it may do them more harm than good - which is what happened to me. We'll see how it all plays out, but my new way of life is to not listen to the bullshit posted on forums because apparently that hasn't worked out for me in the past.
I was also taking advice to take Magnesium Citrate and Valerian Root to help me sleep. Apparently I was getting crazy nightmares every night, even if I had a normal good day. I thought OMG what haoppened to my brain. As it turns out the Magnesium Citrate is known to create nightmares, thus it was doing more harm - yet there was so many people recommending Magnesium and a few that recommended the Citrate. At one point I was taking 600-800mg of Valerian at night. Then I said I will go cold turkey, thought I had a heart attack that night when I stopped taking it. Had to rethink my strategy and ween off it / convince myself slowly that it wasn't doing anything good. And now I am Magnesium free / Valerian free / insane vitamins/supplements free. All I take is the SSRI and that's all I need and when time comes I'll eventually figure out a way to ween off that too.
There's alot experience teaches. When you get on an SSRI and stay there steadily for a few months then let me know.
MagickalKat777
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I've been on SSRIs. At the 2 month mark, I was taken off of Celexa cold turkey because it pushed me into constant hypomania and I'm not bipolar.
I've been on every antidepressant class except for TCAs and SNRIs. I might as well be drinking water.
Since you like to talk about studies, go fetch some articles about SSRIs versus placebo.
Don't talk about experience to most of us here as we have a lot more of it than you give us credit for. I've been on and off meds since I was 10 years old and I've been on pretty much everything that can be used for depression, anxiety, mood swings, etc., and I've researched all of them too.
Valerian is what most likely gave you the nightmares and it doesn't surprise me that coming off of it at such a high dose gave you withdrawal since it is GABAergic. As for the magnesium, its a somewhat common side effect to have vivid dreams when you start it (which, among other reasons like loose stools is why you are supposed to start low) but goes away as you adjust to it.
I think its funny that you admit that SSRIs have an adjustment period but you sit there and act surprised that powerful supplements and herbs that actually are better than placebo would. 8)
How am I a fear monger by the way? I've posted nothing but positive things in this thread about recovery. I don't believe that you should be messing with SERT when you've already jacked it up with MDMA and I advocate the natural approach to healing but I don't see how that is fear mongering. I guess a lot of us who don't believe adding drugs are the answer are all fear mongers.
I've been on every antidepressant class except for TCAs and SNRIs. I might as well be drinking water.
Since you like to talk about studies, go fetch some articles about SSRIs versus placebo.
Don't talk about experience to most of us here as we have a lot more of it than you give us credit for. I've been on and off meds since I was 10 years old and I've been on pretty much everything that can be used for depression, anxiety, mood swings, etc., and I've researched all of them too.
Valerian is what most likely gave you the nightmares and it doesn't surprise me that coming off of it at such a high dose gave you withdrawal since it is GABAergic. As for the magnesium, its a somewhat common side effect to have vivid dreams when you start it (which, among other reasons like loose stools is why you are supposed to start low) but goes away as you adjust to it.
I think its funny that you admit that SSRIs have an adjustment period but you sit there and act surprised that powerful supplements and herbs that actually are better than placebo would. 8)
How am I a fear monger by the way? I've posted nothing but positive things in this thread about recovery. I don't believe that you should be messing with SERT when you've already jacked it up with MDMA and I advocate the natural approach to healing but I don't see how that is fear mongering. I guess a lot of us who don't believe adding drugs are the answer are all fear mongers.
dpd_mnk92
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My entire post was directed at your claim that MDMA doesn't cause physical damage. Instead of replying to the points I made, you now want to talk about SSRIs, which I didn't even mention (I did say I was happy they worked for you, though!). But we can talk about SSRIs if you really want ....
You are clearly being defensive about SSRIs because you are currently taking them and you want to believe you have taken the best course of action possible. This is normal. For this reason, you don't like hearing evidence about SSRIs not working or not being a good choice. This is also quite normal - people do this about everything. As a result, when you feel your views are being threatened, you resort to calling bullshit when people have different views, even if they're correct (e.g. that mdma can cause physical damage) and calling people names like "fear monger".
IMO, you should be happy that SSRIs work for you, but realise that just because they work for you doesn't mean they'll work for most. Just because your MDMA problems were purely psychological, doesn't mean this is the case for others etc. If you hadn't caused any damage, then sure anti-depressants may make you less depressed - no surprise there.
PS. Are you still taking SSRIs? You won't really know how effective they are until cessation (unless you intend to be on them for life).
Folley
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hmm this is interesting I never thought about it this way. I was using some OTC supplements to help the anxiety but from what you've said I gather that I'm just prolonging the problem. It does make sense that using drugs/supplements is a band aid solution
I don't know if this is scientifically accurate but if you are altering neurotransmitters with an external source, will the body continue to make it's own?
My reasoning comes from the fact that body builders use exogenous testosterone and after a while the body ceases to make it's own. I'm not sure if the same principle will apply.
Either way I have noticed a MUCH greater improvement after I have started using CBT and REBT techniques combined with mindfulness and meditation. It seems to me that theres no physical damage done. My blood work came back excellent. So really it's just my thoughts prolonging this negative downward spiral. Once I realized that and saw that the anxious thoughts weren't true I have steadily improved to around 80% of my old mental state. I hope in the months to come I'll return back to 100%.
I'm going to drop all supplements, embrace the lingering issues and see my progress in the coming months.
Ok well you guys have fun with that! I'll continue on with life as I have been lately because that is better than sitting here and arguing with people that have a few thousand posts on a forum like this. You're right, there is no medication that will work for someone that has 11,000 fear mongering posts.
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