[MEGA] Cannabis Addiction & Withdrawal

[FnX]

Oh man, we should just drop these useless terms "physical" and "mental" addiction. There are studies that 'prove' marijuana physically addictive and there are studies that 'prove' the other way around. Here we just throw around our opinions without even knowing what exactly is the difference between the terms physical and psychological addiction "psychological addiction means it's all in your head" is pretty damn vague.

I think there's a psychological and physical component to every addiction. You simply CAN'T separate the two. It's like saying that the need to take a piss/dump is all in your head. Not only is there a physical and psychological component to every addiction, the way they work together is intertwined: physical symptoms can cause psychological symptoms and vice-versa. I don't think there's much sense either trying to argue who came first, chicken or the egg.

 

[Egzoset]

Euh...

Sorry, i just plain-fail to see which part i could reply to.



Except, supposedly, it would seem correct to point out that non-decarboxylated cannabic salad isn't psycho-active and hence there can't be withdrawal symptoms caused by some form of sinful dependancy whatsoever... Ha! Ha! Euh... In my initial intervention the only addiction possible should be to get healthier, which i thought was a basic goal in life, hopefully protected under all constitutions, treaties and charts, IMHO!...

Yet i can't but notice the fact that to want to get healthier by eating raw cannabis salad happens to be a topic you'd rather ignore.

Too bad.

 

[Jibult]

I think there's a psychological and physical component to every addiction. You simply CAN'T separate the two.

Aaaaaand it looks like we've got a winner.

Yet i can't but notice the fact that to want to get healthier by eating raw cannabis salad happens a topic you'd rather ignore.

I only have a "raw cannibic salad" when I'm pulled over by the po-lice. It's doubtful I'd ever willingly eat raw nugs.... It's just not a pleasant experience for me.

 

[Treefa]

of couse ANYTHING can be psychologically addictive.

Your psychological or subconscious desire for marijuana can manifest in physical ways etc. insomnia, headaches, anxiety, sadness etc.
Basically whatever weed helps you forget about you will have to deal with when it vacates your system.

Physically addiction tho? No lol..just no.

 

[xx001]

Oh man, we should just drop these useless terms "physical" and "mental" addiction. There are studies that 'prove' marijuana physically addictive and there are studies that 'prove' the other way around. Here we just throw around our opinions without even knowing what exactly is the difference between the terms physical and psychological addiction "psychological addiction means it's all in your head" is pretty damn vague.

I think there's a psychological and physical component to every addiction. You simply CAN'T separate the two. It's like saying that the need to take a piss/dump is all in your head. Not only is there a physical and psychological component to every addiction, the way they work together is intertwined: physical symptoms can cause psychological symptoms and vice-versa. I don't think there's much sense either trying to argue who came first, chicken or the egg.

The terms that are best are "addiction" for the mental(compulsive use/ cravings, abusive patterns, using despite harm), and "dependence" for the physical(withdrawal symptoms, requiring the drug in order to function normally).

Being addicted(psychological) to a drug does not necessarily mean that someone is dependent(physiological) on the drug, and being dependent(physiological) on a drug does not necessarily mean that someone is addicted(psychological) to the drug.

Is a diabetic "addicted" to insulin simply because they are dependent on it?

Addiction can lead to long-term regular use, which, in turn, can produce dependence. Dependence can also reinforce addiction, because the user knows that getting high another time will stop the withdrawal symptoms. However they are not the same and they do not always go together.

Something you didn't mention but is still worth noting is that tolerance does not equal either addiction or dependence. Another big drug myth.

 

[Egzoset]

Hi,

It's doubtful I'd ever willingly eat raw nugs...

Me neither: i wouldn't since i'd cut the plant before its vegetative cycle has ended. For high-CBD salad receipes i suppose its the leaves which are most desirable... Nugs are good for vaporization though, but that's another type of "addiction" altogether!...

 

[Jibult]

Hi,



Me neither: i wouldn't since i'd cut the plant before its vegetative cycle has ended. For high-CBD salad receipes i suppose its the leaves which are most desirable... Nugs are good for vaporization though, but that's another type of "addiction" altogether!...

Oh! You meant a literal salad with leaves and stuff. I thought you were just trying to coin a new way of saying you just ate a raw bud, lol.

 

[WeedIndeed]

Yeah man, Unless I inject AT LEAST three marijuanas or hasishes in the morning I start craving the drug. It involves shaking, feeling cold and nauseous, loss of energy, seizures and rectal disfunction.
Marijuana - not even once.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Jibult,

Oh! You meant a literal salad with leaves and stuff.

Sure am, the vegetative phase doesn't require as much light energy as the flowering one i think, and since i know CFLs can suffice for that purpose (although that may not be cost efficient) then what i'm saying is that cannabis as a dietary complement could be grown just like salad provided one has the opportunity to garden. Fresh non-decarboxylised cannabis leaves shouldn't be a target and yet it is because when one is a "stoner" the poor sod is presumed guilty until proven innocent, right? And what guilt should a cannabic consumer feel anyway, especially in juxtaposition with all sorts of real harmful aberrations that didn't get legally demonized in times of economic depression between two wars?...

I'd be surprized i'd be a naughty bad little boy simply by appreciating the benefits of a revigorating salad!

 

[A2Z&NBETWEEN]

personally im addicted to altering my mind. i have bad anxiety untill i do so. chemical dependance i dont believe in, i dont even have withdrawls from opiates, not to say you wont feel shitty if you dont get some. so i would summize a chronic, detrimental, addiction as mostly selfishness

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations A2Z&NBETWEEN,

...addicted to altering my mind...

I myself wouldn't wish to alter my own mind since it pleases me the way it is (for the most part - at least as much as i'd be willing to experience altered moods featured with cannabic virtues), still cannabis is no good to me when i don't feel like it but that's me.



As a matter of fact my personal testimony would refer to vaporism in revelation terms: essencially, Goddess Vapo appeared to me and commented that vaporization practically doubles the amount of noble molecules available as a result of significantly less cannabis being burned (as combustible) and/or destroyed (204 °C max. recommendable) to be substituted to charcoal in a combustion oven, whatever, euh... Anyway, i decided to acquire a good table vaporizer and now cannabis can be a falicitator to me again - years after i had quit all smoking definitely.

The vaporizing tools put many old rituals to vacancy: i no longer carry paper acound, for example. Capsules need no tool at all.

%)

About alterated mood, for me it depends on how i choose to spend my time. Watching the national news telecast is depressing most of the time, that's one thing "stoners" should always avoid, IMHO. Music is what gets me on the tip of my toes, ready to spread my wings and fly - don't worry, i keep away from windows!... Ah! Ah! Yet, i'm going to argue this makes me think of what one would call auto-hypnose or else, i suppose. The mix of sensations and emotions evoked my music keeps me happy in any case, so if it's time to go sleep because the magic wears off as it always does, euh... Which makes me think of something else, about magic... The VaporGenie! I like it and i hate it all togeter!! It's similar to some spicy feeling that hurts the lips, my HerbalAire modded to use glass and water seem to belong in quite another category. From the looks of it my appreciation of that device so far would be that i'll have a lot of green residue yet to be correctly depleted in my HA 2.1 after just a few tokes. It would seem i'll enjoy my veranda even better, trying to learn & master the necessary skills to vape efficiently and economically. Things would have differed greatly a few decades ago.

 

[Jibult]

personally im addicted to altering my mind. i have bad anxiety untill i do so. chemical dependance i dont believe in, i dont even have withdrawls from opiates, not to say you wont feel shitty if you dont get some. so i would summize a chronic, detrimental, addiction as mostly selfishness

I would "summize" this post as mostly ignorance but that's just me.

 

[Magickduck]

personally im addicted to altering my mind. i have bad anxiety untill i do so. chemical dependance i dont believe in, i dont even have withdrawls from opiates, not to say you wont feel shitty if you dont get some. so i would summize a chronic, detrimental, addiction as mostly selfishness

Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Choosing to "not believe" in chemical dependance is so stupid I cannot even believe I just heard you say that.
Sorry, do not mean to flame you too hard, but jeez man - Get a grip. You have simply not been using opiates for long enough to produce physical widthdrawl.


On another subject, I definitly find marijuana addictive. For example, about two weeks ago I decided I wanted to go 30 days completely sober (have not done this since I was 15 years old), from everything, including marijuana. I ate some mushrooms and this helped kickstart me into this 30 days.

I had a chart, with each day of the 30 days having a box, split into 3 seconds, Morning, Afternoon, and Night. After about a week, I decided I would smoke pot once, at night. Put an X instead of a check in the night of that box. The next day I did not have any more. Then the next day, I had another at night. Put an X in the night. Then the next day, I had one in the afternoon, and night. Put an X in afternoon and an X in night. The next day had these same things. Then the next day, I had 3 X's - morning, afternoon, and night. And the next, and so on, until I was high all the time again. These trends would definitly lead me to believe this plant is psychologically addicting. I am trying again, today is day 1 of no pot :D

 

[Jibult]

On another subject, I definitly find marijuana addictive. For example, about two weeks ago I decided I wanted to go 30 days completely sober (have not done this since I was 15 years old), from everything, including marijuana. I ate some mushrooms and this helped kickstart me into this 30 days.

I had a chart, with each day of the 30 days having a box, split into 3 seconds, Morning, Afternoon, and Night. After about a week, I decided I would smoke pot once, at night. Put an X instead of a check in the night of that box. The next day I did not have any more. Then the next day, I had another at night. Put an X in the night. Then the next day, I had one in the afternoon, and night. Put an X in afternoon and an X in night. The next day had these same things. Then the next day, I had 3 X's - morning, afternoon, and night. And the next, and so on, until I was high all the time again. These trends would definitly lead me to believe this plant is psychologically addicting. I am trying again, today is day 1 of no pot :D

I'm interested in the mushrooms kicking off your temporary abstinence. How did they help? Like, do you think the trip satiated your desire to use any other mind-altering substances or something? I know I normally feel completely drained after a trip or a roll (moreso with rolling than tripping, and LSD moreso than mushrooms) and don't have the energy to go about obtaining more substances. Hell, I'm normally so exhausted that I don't even think of getting more drugs which is kind of a big reason why I stopped with the heavier mainstream psychedelics, but that's a story for a different thread.


Also, I've done the same thing with charts/keeping a record of not smoking. At first it's always worked for me, then it started becoming my main trigger to want to smoke. I'd get the thought completely out of my head, then remember I gotta record the day and *BOOM* I've got weedz on teh brain again.

 

[Magickduck]

I'm interested in the mushrooms kicking off your temporary abstinence. How did they help? Like, do you think the trip satiated your desire to use any other mind-altering substances or something? I know I normally feel completely drained after a trip or a roll (moreso with rolling than tripping, and LSD moreso than mushrooms) and don't have the energy to go about obtaining more substances. Hell, I'm normally so exhausted that I don't even think of getting more drugs which is kind of a big reason why I stopped with the heavier mainstream psychedelics, but that's a story for a different thread.


Also, I've done the same thing with charts/keeping a record of not smoking. At first it's always worked for me, then it started becoming my main trigger to want to smoke. I'd get the thought completely out of my head, then remember I gotta record the day and *BOOM* I've got weedz on teh brain again.

Well, you ever heard that quote using psychedelics for fun is like buying a ferrari, souping up the engine, and using it to drive circles in a parking lot. As compared to their true theurpeutic benifit. Among hundreds of other ways, I think one of the most benificial effects of these tools is the "next page" phenonemom... one of the reasons many people feel "reborn" after an experiance. I used LSD to quit smoking tobacco one, and this was the only time I was successful. I switched to oral tobacco for about 2-3 weeks to lower my dependance mg per mg as well as to reassociate my addiction away from the act of smoking. ... after I did this for a few weeks, I stopped this. I still experianced the normal intense widthdrawls I used to get from nicotine... the problem is i used to make it past day 3 and then cave in a week or two in and "NEED" to smoke. Anyway on this try on day 3 of the widtdralws, I took some very storong L. I had a beauitiful experiance and it completely ended its widthdrawls and I no longer had any cravings. Never had another craving again. I left the old me who was a cigarette addict behind. I quit for two years and then made the decision to start smoking again. I am now a smoker again and going to quit again soon. My fiance quit with me at that same time using the l and succceeded as well (she was VERY addicted would FREAK without nicotine) and she was able to never smoke again (still a nonsmoker).


Now back on topic to the mushrooms and the pot. When I cease use of cannabis I experiance some physical "wiudthdrawls"/cessation symptpooms. I will get in a state of intense mania - talking super fast as if cracked out on stimulants - with tons of excess physical and mental energy. While certain aspects of my anxiety may be exasperated - such as physical restlessness and excess energy - my actual mind is better and 50x less paranoid and such. everthe less this physical sensation and mania can be very overstimulating and uncomfortable which usually leads me back into smoking weed thinking I need it as my "medicine".

Now, that last time, on day 2 or 3, I ate a small ammount of mushrooms, and it did almost the same thing as when I attempted to quit smoking cigarettes. It gave me the boost I needed to nto feel so weird in my sober state and made it very eay to not smoke. Until I purposfully mad ethe decision to smoke again.

 

[Jibult]

Man, I would never have thought to use a hallucinogen to help quit a habit. It makes sense, though. Like you're implying in your post, a good trip can be a paradigm-shifting experience. It makes sense that it could help someone get out of an unhealthy routine that they've created/fallen into.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations,

I'm one of those who like to get a good potent experience once in a while, still today, and yet i don't consider myself addicted although like many others before me i myself did consider seriously seeking advice from a professional after being suggested this avenue by other people, in days when i was a young hashish smoker. Decades later a 2 years-old HerbalAire (still alive & kicking!) safely helps to provide my favourite sort of cannabic session through elimination of by-products previously generated during combustion - but an important problem remains: this machine works like a heavy last-century train which is hard to stop once set in motion!! Which in fact reminds me that a smoked joint is usually burned without little time to pause, etc.

So please allow me to present my Plan-B alternative as this will make the rest easier to write:

That's a slightly modded VaporGenie vaporizer. Its HA teflon mouthpiece/extender joint and PVC aquarium tubing were all there was to add in order to pass from a difficult-to-learn ritual to easy fun (at least as far as i'm concerned)! Taking care to capture only the burning-hot air around an ordinary butane flame (without its combustibles & residues) i obtained some decent sessions at a budget cost but there's more... Essentially speaking this is a 1 hit device and this can prove to be really economic, especially when compared to a table vaporizer such as the HerbalAire!... Water vapor produced during butane combustion renders the cannabic vapour somewhat less irritating because of the usual cannabic vapour dryness while i find my herb has some spicy touch added to it - but noting as repulsive as burning cauldron, whatever!

What i'm trying to explain is that using a tool as illustrated above it should be possible to regain control over tolerance in the long run and hence avoid the so-called "dark side" of cannabis, i believe. But that's only me!

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Does stopping disrupt sleep length? Does stopping disrupt appetite? Can some people not sleep without marijauna? Can some people not eat without marijuana? Yes and Yes. The answer is it is physically addicting.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Ho-Chi-Minh,

...it is physically addicting.

Is that meant as 100 % inclusive?

 

[deldone]

Some people experience mild physical withdrawal symptoms(insomnia, loss of appetite) after heavy or long-term usage. Usually the symptoms last a week or so. It's certainly not physically addictive in the sense that something like heroin or alcohol are physically addictive.

Psychological addiction is a much more complicated issue. Marijuana isn't particularly addictive in the traditional sense, like cocaine, for instance. A better term might be "habit-forming", like how people are "addicted" to sex, eating, television, gambling, sugar, etc. There is no standard criteria for psychological addiction, but at this point it becomes somewhat of a semantic debate. My impression is that by thinking of cannabis as addictive we are downplaying the significance of seriously addictive substances like tobacco, heroin, methamphetamine, etc. It seems like there needs to be a distinction based on pharmacology and the direct effects on the reward pathway. We may find that marijuana "addiction" is based more on liking than wanting.

^This.

Exactly what I wanted to say. Plus I prefer looking at it as a habitual thing instead of calling it an addiction.