Heroin Minimum days between uses to not get physically dependent?

[yubacity]

It should fill you with dread because it's how things are once you've tasted the forbidden fruit. It's hard to go back to life without them and it will be months, perhaps years, before your brain returns to normal. By using opioids you've trained your mind and body to stop producing their natural feel good chemicals. This means that you feel pain more acutely now and your brain is no longer releasing those natural chemicals that give you joy when you do things that are supposed to make you feel good (like eating a large meal or being around your girl). You've effectively shut off your natural supply of everything that makes you happy and your bodies ability to mask pain.

Things do not return to normal once you're through acute withdrawals. The fight is just getting started and it will take all of your will power to get through the months that follow. In time, for me it takes about 8 months to a year, your natural endorphins will start being produced again. The problem is you've also tickled the receptors they attach to with stronger chemicals constantly. So now the endorphins your body naturally produces aren't as effective. It's like you're attempting to catch a nod with codeine after years of using IV heroin. No matter how much codeine you chug you're going to run into a ceiling you can't break through. At best you'll just feel some mild effect that might take the edge off but it's never going to feel as strong as you know it should.

If you stay off longer maybe it improves. I don't know. After my period of heavy abuse I attempted to quit/taper many times. I stabilized on methadone, quit that CT, suffered for weeks, made it to the year mark, but something went wrong in my life and I found myself coming right back. Before long I was months into taking kratom 3-4 times daily and not even feeling much from it. I quit that CT but the pain was too much for me to deal with. So now I'm stabilized on 0.5mg-2mg of bupe everyday. I cut a piece off an 8mg strip in the morning and another about 6-12 hours later. I wake up everyday in mild opioid withdrawal. But it's better (and cheaper) than using the opioids I like. Plus, it keeps me honest because any opioids I might come by would be a waste. I know I could probably bust through but I also know 20mg of oxy or something would be a total waste so I don't even bother getting started.

Wish I had better news for you but this is how it is. Don't feel too bad. Lots of us fell into this trap without realizing it. I still remember the first time I went into opioid W/D. My source of free pills went to jail and I didn't put two and two together. I just assumed I caught the flu and that I felt better when I took an oxycodone pill because it was masking my sickness. It wasn't until a year or two later I realized how fucked I really was. I wish my friend would have never traded me that first Oxycontin ER for a joint. I can't remember what mg it was but it was one of 30+mg ERs at least. Guy told me to snort half of it and that I would enjoy it. I was drooling on myself within 15 minutes. I didn't know what was in that pill but I knew I liked it better than any drug I'd tried up until that point.

If I had a time machine I'd be a very rich man. I wouldn't have lost my mountain of bitcoins and I would have saved all those free pills back then. I'm not kidding when I say back then pills weren't even worth money. You could trade a joint of brick weed for a handful of oxy or hydros. I had a friend that would give me sandwich baggies full of percocet and hydrocodone 10mg tablets because they were worthless. I would walk around with them at high school and give handfuls of them away to anyone that wanted some. All of my friend's parents had bottles of the things laying around. Oxycontin ERs were so common people would drop handfuls of them and wouldn't even bother to pick them up. It was a wild time to be a freshman.

I wish I had a time machine go back 30 years and say no thanks to a line of rosebud crank get my head into schoolwork and be one of these nerds I thought were missing out on a good time. I went a year and a half clean and one bad moment thought I just smoke a little as you said it's downhill from there.

After that long off the gear, I started having natural laughter enjoyed moments with family, and thought I was out the woods but if you want the truth I was still bored. I missed the fun with pals it's like you have to change your whole circle you plant yourself back with a few old friends that never got into the shit but I was bored. Every time I relapse now after I know I have gone past the point of stoipping without wd which let's be honest once it's bitten you is only days before wd happens I just go all out like a fucking whirlwind

I'm clean again now apart from 300mg pregabalin which is down from a high point of grams and grams of the stuff but I know the last drops are the hardest and I fear pregabalin wd more than the heroin . I'll get off it again but for how long I have thought of methadone but I hate the thought of still needing something to function still a slave but either way you can cut of the chains but you are never free from this fucking drug

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

I missed the fun with pals

That's the worse part about it. After using for years your circle becomes people using the same substances as you. So when it comes time to quit you're forced to stop seeing them to avoid the drug. If you try to drop in or hang out with them after you're clean it just becomes a big problem. You can't ask an entire room to stop using just on your account. You either end up being bitter about the fact that you can't partake or you join in just one time then next thing you know you've been there a week and are considering spending your last $20 on a pill that's not even going to get the group high.

I miss all my old friends that are still living but I don't miss all the drama that comes along with them. Once you're out of the rat race of scoring and the drama that comes with it you really don't want to go back. I'd be more than happy to buy my drug of choice at a fair price from someone that is reliable, not interested in screwing me over, and understands that I don't want to sit up all night doing the drugs I just bought with them. I know this will never happen so I don't bother. Every time I try to let these old friends back in they just end up bringing problems with them. You know the type I mean. The girl with the ex-boyfriend stalker. The guy that's having trouble at home and with the law constantly. The kid that is constantly strung out and a liability to everyone around him. I just can't deal with the day-to-day shit that comes along with buying drugs anymore.

If they sold legal morphine at the store I would just stay on it for the rest of my life. I'd even trade my cigarette habit for it and be willing to pay a comparable amount of taxes. I'd even be willing to compromise with crudely extracted opium as long as I knew the source was clean. I feel like this would solve a lot of problems. Opioids aren't really that harmful if you're responsible with them. The main issue with them has always been running out of them or things being labeled something they aren't.

 

[Iceman1216]

" If they sold legal morphine at the store I would just stay on it for the rest of my life. I'd even trade my cigarette habit for it and be willing to pay a comparable amount of taxes. I'd even be willing to compromise with crudely extracted opium as long as I knew the source was clean. I feel like this would solve a lot of problems. Opioids aren't really that harmful if you're responsible with them. The main issue with them has always been running out of them or things being labeled something they aren't."

Very well said! I will be using this from now on to express how and why I feel !!
I feel that all drugs should be legal .
we can use all the $$ for treatment of people who want it ( will Never have enough room for who NEED IT"
just look at alcohol or cigarettes??
I know it sucks to say, but clean Pharmaceutical drugs available like alcohol and ciggs, will cure many of our current ills, and allow us to work on some very large ones!!
World hunger
Education
Peace
climate
energy
Diseases
I am not sure it will happen in my life time, but I know after 50 years, we are in a worst place than ever.
Lets change and try, we can not do any worst!!
The War on Drugs does not have One Win!!

The Hypocrisy of the whole War with Leaving Out
Alcohol and ciggerets, is sadly laughable , if millions have not been killed by the whole miss advebture

 

[Nas47]

Is it possible to use 5 days on 2 days off without getting physically dependent in the long term?

If you have been dependant in the past even once is a lot.Even after remission snorting a line of H gives me bad feelings a day or two after that.Smoking a bit of crystal gives me a real bad sensations almost a week

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

" If they sold legal morphine at the store I would just stay on it for the rest of my life. I'd even trade my cigarette habit for it and be willing to pay a comparable amount of taxes. I'd even be willing to compromise with crudely extracted opium as long as I knew the source was clean. I feel like this would solve a lot of problems. Opioids aren't really that harmful if you're responsible with them. The main issue with them has always been running out of them or things being labeled something they aren't."

A German drug researcher and author, Henning Schmidt-Semisch, years ago proposed the most sensible legalization option I've ever come across :

- There should be a state - regulated monopoly on production and sale.
- The same quality guarantees would apply for recreational drugs as for any pharmaceutical drugs.
- There should be no advertising (neither should alcohol be advertised. All these substances should be legally available but nobody should be actively encouraged to buy).
- Sale would be via specialist drug shops, where the staff have the same training as a pharmacist, and could accurately inform the user about potential adverse effects, dosage and what drugs not to combine with each other or with certain medications.
- You would also get general advice about which health conditions might make some drugs risky for you (heart problems or seizure disorders and stimulants, for instance).
- Substances which can be ingested in different ways would be available in different preparations accordingly.
- The packaging would give as a single dose such as would be safe for somebody who had never used the drug. More experienced / tolerant users of course are free to take additional doses.
- As with alcohol and cigarettes, age restrictions would apply.

PS Even full addiction doesn't have to equal social degeneration. Back in the day there used to be a lot of doctors and pharmacists with a massive morphine habit. Yet they were still perfectly able to function in their profession. The difference was the stuff was pure, could be accurately dosed, and the consumption of it was neither pathologized nor criminalized.

 

[December Flower]

A German drug researcher and author, Henning Schmidt-Semisch, years ago proposed the most sensible legalization option I've ever come across :

He's actually a Professor of Sociology, and a degreed criminologist.
This was all as part of the Schildower Kreis (a network of mostly Academics that are pro-legalisation)

Sorry to butt in like this, but he's a pretty renowned Professor at the Univesity Bremen. Researcher just made him sound like some random dude

 

[White knight]

Five days a week will become seven days a week in no time and usimg multiple times a day. I can garuntee this. If you've not got a habbit please dont do this. Heroin addiction is no joke nor is it fun. Ots hell on earth

 

[yubacity]

That's the worse part about it. After using for years your circle becomes people using the same substances as you. So when it comes time to quit you're forced to stop seeing them to avoid the drug. If you try to drop in or hang out with them after you're clean it just becomes a big problem. You can't ask an entire room to stop using just on your account. You either end up being bitter about the fact that you can't partake or you join in just one time then next thing you know you've been there a week and are considering spending your last $20 on a pill that's not even going to get the group high.

I miss all my old friends that are still living but I don't miss all the drama that comes along with them. Once you're out of the rat race of scoring and the drama that comes with it you really don't want to go back. I'd be more than happy to buy my drug of choice at a fair price from someone that is reliable, not interested in screwing me over, and understands that I don't want to sit up all night doing the drugs I just bought with them. I know this will never happen so I don't bother. Every time I try to let these old friends back in they just end up bringing problems with them. You know the type I mean. The girl with the ex-boyfriend stalker. The guy that's having trouble at home and with the law constantly. The kid that is constantly strung out and a liability to everyone around him. I just can't deal with the day-to-day shit that comes along with buying drugs anymore.

If they sold legal morphine at the store I would just stay on it for the rest of my life. I'd even trade my cigarette habit for it and be willing to pay a comparable amount of taxes. I'd even be willing to compromise with crudely extracted opium as long as I knew the source was clean. I feel like this would solve a lot of problems. Opioids aren't really that harmful if you're responsible with them. The main issue with them has always been running out of them or things being labeled something they aren't.

It is the worse thing dont get me wrong i dont miss the clock we run to when addicted waking up feeling like shit until you use . But it tyhe total life we have to change including friends they good people most of them and to blank them feels like your being a cunt . But blank them we must no other way to stay clean today at my pals house this girl and her boyfriend come round good friends old friends but as soon as the gear comes out i make my excuse and leave

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

He's actually a Professor of Sociology, and a degreed criminologist.
This was all as part of the Schildower Kreis (a network of mostly Academics that are pro-legalisation)

Sorry to butt in like this, but he's a pretty renowned Professor at the Univesity Bremen. Researcher just made him sound like some random dude

I'm actually aware of his qualifications (I'm German myself btw), I was simply using a generic term with 'researcher'.
'Forscher' is used for any and all types of academic or scientific research, and is respected.

I forgot a lot of English speakers use that term to mean 'I read some random articles on Facebook'. Xd

And yes I know of the Schildow Circle.
Too bad they never managed to get themselves organized enough to push for any major reform in the current nonsensical and wholly counter - productive prohibitionist drug legislation.
They would have had the clout and the credentials. Just not the political will it seems.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

It is the worse thing dont get me wrong i dont miss the clock we run to when addicted waking up feeling like shit until you use . But it tyhe total life we have to change including friends they good people most of them and to blank them feels like your being a cunt . But blank them we must no other way to stay clean today at my pals house this girl and her boyfriend come round good friends old friends but as soon as the gear comes out i make my excuse and leave

To be honest I find this, in principle, wholly unnecessary. I mean ok it depends. If you still feel constantly tempted at the merest reminder then yes, it makes sense for you to steer clear of acquaintances who are still using.

.. But then again the ONE thing that really drives your use, is your own DESIRE to use. So then you need to ask yourself why you want it so bloody much, and why indeed you DO feel tempted at that merest reminder ; and go figure shit out from there.
Like, I'm a pretty heavy drinker (maybe not full - on alkie but certainly what would be termed
'risk - drinking' or 'problematic'), but you know I can absolutely be in a room full of people getting sloshed and not particularly feel like I have to join them in that state. And the same goes for the heroin these days.

... Don't blame your friends for 'making' you use.
At the end of the day there's only YOU makes you use.
If you seriously feel you gotta keep away from others or else you'll go back to the races, then I say you got stuff to sort out that's nothing DIRECTLY to do with either them or the drug in question.

My very best friend of all time is a total junkie and what's more has made it clear on numerous occasions that he has neither the intent nor desire to change. He and I still hang out because I wouldn't miss his company for the world, and he simply does his thing while I do mine (ie a lot less Xd).

 

[yubacity]

To be honest I find this, in principle, wholly unnecessary. I mean ok it depends. If you still feel constantly tempted at the merest reminder then yes, it makes sense for you to steer clear of acquaintances who are still using.

.. But then again the ONE thing that really drives your use, is your own DESIRE to use. So then you need to ask yourself why you want it so bloody much, and why indeed you DO feel tempted at that merest reminder ; and go figure shit out from there.
Like, I'm a pretty heavy drinker (maybe not full - on alkie but certainly what would be termed
'risk - drinking' or 'problematic'), but you know I can absolutely be in a room full of people getting sloshed and not particularly feel like I have to join them in that state. And the same goes for the heroin these days.

... Don't blame your friends for 'making' you use.
At the end of the day there's only YOU makes you use.
If you seriously feel you gotta keep away from others or else you'll go back to the races, then I say you got stuff to sort out that's nothing DIRECTLY to do with either them or the drug in question.

My very best friend of all time is a total junkie and what's more has made it clear on numerous occasions that he has neither the intent nor desire to change. He and I still hang out because I wouldn't miss his company for the world, and he simply does his thing while I do mine (ie a lot less Xd).

I agree my pals dont make me use thats down to me . My problem is i cant resist and when i do resist my mind is thinking about using the mental gymnastics of me trying to justify to use it becomes all i think about and ill only be a shit mate at that moment. So I get up and leave and try to make it home without going to dealers.

My best mate he a middle-rank dealer has real good gear used to buy it from him before he stamped on it and I get it at the price he paid. Once I told him I done with it he stopped serving up to me I can kick it with him because he my best mate and we have a brotherhood first gear way down the list. And i tried a few times to get some off him it just aw straight no so that way i know it not going to happen and takes the stress out of it

 

[Frostklinge]

there is something different about heroin than most opiates that makes seldom use even create withdrawals that are stronger--psychologically with depression especially--to kick in with even rare usage.

I can confirm that and that's why I switched back to Tilidine after 10 months of Heroin use. I used only twice a week but from the 8th month onwards I started to get withdrawals the next day after using. I always woke up sweaty, with light anxiety, back pain, rls and terrible nightmares (those wd nightmares are truly terrifying for some reason). Since I switched back to Tilidine I had none of it again.

and the heroin quality suddenly being high with a certain batch will take over the mind and soul.

Higher purity doesn't lead to more euphoria, it simply means that you need to take less to get the same effect. It's also not Heroin that takes over your mind and soul, it's opioids in general. It doesn't matter if you're addicted to Heroin, Oxy, Hydro, Fent, etc. since the spectrum of effects is the same with all opioids. The difference is merely in what effect predominates in which opioid and depending on what you're specifically looking for you might end up becoming more addicted to an opioid that is generally considered "harmless". I for example never liked the morphine high and always preferred the more euphoric, less sedating effect of Tilidine, which is why I take these pills even more frequently than I ever took Heroin. Heroin simply has this enigmatic image and subculture surrounding it, making it appear more addictive when it isn't (not talking about IV use since I never tried it and never will).

 

[yubacity]

You will find it impossible to stick to any schedule. Everyone thinks they can do this but you always end up cheating "just one time". Then soon it's an everyday thing and you aren't really getting high anymore. You're just starving off the withdrawals.

No matter how often this advice gets repeated no one follows it. I didn't and you probably won't. The good news is opioids aren't really that bad for your health long term if you have a steady supply of them from a good source (excluding some of the strange ones and these new RCs). The bad news is this is starting to become very hard to have. The supply of cheap opioids from known sources dried up years ago. The days of pharmaceuticals being plentiful is long gone.

I urge you to consider stopping use of opioids before it becomes a lot harder. You will eventually reach a point with them where there is no going back to life before them.

Just went through this thread again your last sentence is just the truth

 

[floatingaround]

Followed this thread about a month or 2 ago.

Can completely back up what many others have said already.

First time I used opiates was 10 years ago, ended up shooting heroin for about a 6 month period once a week. Then my good mate overdosed and I couldn't get it anymore.

Fast forward 10 years.. its popped back up again, seems as decent as it used to be.

I can't do needles anymore, their too hard-core and after years of pre use anxiety vomiting everytime i would go to get on, I couldn't tolerate it anymore. So I snort it instead now.

I started using .05 of #4. I would snort it in 1 go, and would never redose the same day (generally didn't want to be spending much on H)

It's funny, I know the risks of regular opiate use, read everyone's comments about stopping before your ahead, I knew this within myself even.. but it was too late.

For about the last 4 weeks I've been now using .1 of a gram, basically whenever I can afford it. It would be everyday definatly if I had the money, at the moment once every second or third day is what I can seem to afford. Maybe 2 days in a row after pay day. If I use more then 3 times in a week then I experience minor wd symptoms day 2 without, the restless legs and arms during bed time.. absolute worst.

Psychologically, I am so hooked its not a great outlook currently. The cravings are the worst I've had for any drug. I'm considering buying a bottle of codeine from the chemist to ease the craving tonight as my guy is still out and its currently day 4 without.

Bit of a rant..



The effect I get is good, it is usually enough to put me on a light nod(though deep enough that when my dog scratches I believe its actually someone walking around) although if I need to be awake and social, I can do that to.

I completely justify using it on work nights, even if I can't afford it, will put myself into further debt by drawing loans. I choose to use it over going and seeing my kids in the afternoon.

When people say heroin will become your life. No truer words have been spoken.

Bit of a rant so far..

To answer the question of this thread though, in my personal experience with heroin, I'd be waiting minimum 3 days between use to avoid physical dependency. Also consider my doses are light and I never redose. Also consider that as time goes on the more I use the shorter the gaps become between wd symptoms.