[Mushrooms Subthread] Extraction

[Bagseed]

to be honest, if you already have crystals falling out of the solution, I think you should strain them through some filter paper. that way you get nicer, purer crystals than if you evaporate the whole thing off... I remember a similar thing (maybe I read it on erowid) where somebody did something similar and then contacted Dr. Shulgin to inquire about the nature of these crystals, and Shulgin thought that they're probably psilocybin. don't quote me on that though

 

[Solipsis]

I know that cognitive liberty response, with all due respect to Shulgin, there is just as big a chance that they are sugars or a mix, depending on solubility. Especially if your yield is unreasonably large if you first calculate the probably alkaloid content involved and estimate what you see falling out of solution... you should distrust it being psilocybin.

So it will be hard to tell if you are not leaving a lot of alkaloid behind and/or having a lot of impurities involved trying to achieve a solid product.

Keeping it as cooled ethanol solution ('magic tincture') will avoid confusion trying to isolate psilocybin, which is apparently a lot harder than you might think or compared to LSA extraction for example, due to the nature of the gunk present in mushroom tissue that you extract along.
For long term storage, take a part that you are not consuming soon - filter particulate matter out of solution and evap the whole thing. It will probably be a honey/resin like gunk - been there - which is hard to dry out well, that should keep longer as it is not in solution - but again: put it in the freezer away from oxygen and moisture.

I guess if you do proceed as you planned, sugars may make the mess sticky which would be a warning sign to watch out for.

I've unfortunately not seen efforts by people at home successfully doing a simple and straightforward extraction to yield relatively pure alkaloids... It took Hofmann some chromatography to get the job done.

But if you do what Bagseed says and have every reason to believe (correct potency, non-sticky etc properties) that its relatively 'pure crystals' please let us know here as it would be marvellous!

 

[Bagseed]

^ yeah my post was rather speculative (hence the "don't quote me on this" ), but I think that he should strain the crystals anyway and then maybe evaporate the alcohol seperately. even if the preciptate is not psilocybin, it will be just some inactive stuff at worst.

 

[Solipsis]

Sure if you want... of course it's not a lace or anything, but just realize that it may very well affect the consistency of your product, the potency will have to be recalculated or even titrated, but to be fair that is true for an ethanol tincture as well.

What would be worse is ditching the mother liquor that holds your alkaloids if you think you have what you came for isolating something turning out to be (mostly) inactive.

If you can lose the sugars by crashing them out first, and recrystallizing the psilocybin after that then separation is a success through that method - but problem seems to be that they may be hard to separate in general.

 

[benevolentbeastie]

Thanks Bagseed and Solipsis! Very appreciative of the help and suggestions.

I hadn't even considered that there might be sugars in the crystals, which might be likely given the amount of them. I also was wondering whether there may still be alkaloids present in the liquor itself, and for that reason would be hesitant to discard it. I think that what I'll do is to strain the crystals, and then evaporate the liquor to see what's left after (if anything), and then try both separate, and then together. I might even keep half of the liquor as is, and try that too, separately and together with crystals. As for dosage, I figured I'd start with 1/8th of whatever product remains (equivalent to 1 gram of dried mushrooms) and go from there.

That said, since I poured the remaining filtered liquor back in the ethanol bottle (the only storage vessel I had available at the the time... not ideal I realize now) I may have no option but to reheat the liquor in the bottle to reabsorb the crystals so I can poor them out and recrystalize/evaporate from there (depending on how stuck they are...)

It might be a few days before I can get back to this, but will definitively keep you posted!

 

[Mescaline Man]

/\ Would freebase psilocybin/cin and/or baeocystin be smokeable? That could be interesting. I doubt it, else wouldn't someone else have tried it?

I have tried freebasing psilocybin resin extract and I wasted 1.5 grams for nothing. Don't waste the goodies

 

[Mescaline Man]

Hello -

Having read a bit about various extraction teks, the other day I decided to give it a go.

• Took 8 grams dried mushrooms
• pulverized
• put in double boiler with 196 proof ethanol
• let it do its thing for about 2 hours
• vacuum filter
• re-steep leftover slurry for another hour
• extract again
• put in container, let cool, stick in fridge

And lo and behold, two days later, a beautiful layer of crystals had formed.

But...

I cooked the ethanol to speed up the evaporation, and can't seem to find a conclusive answer whether or not that wasn't the best thing to do. I intend to evaporate and be left with just the crystals, stick them in gel caps and go, but had these three questions:

1. Did I degrade all the good stuff by boiling the ethanol?
2. What do you think the crystals consist of?
3. Can you think of any reason not to try the crystals (i.e. on the off chance that somehow during the cooking other less than pleasant compounds would have been synthesized? Don't even know if this a possibility, but figured I'd ask before I go ahead and ingest them...)

Many thanks in advance!

​Edit: Added image

Don't evaporate!!! Oxygen exposure degrades psilocybin! Leave it as liquor and the potency will remain much longer! I always make my mushies into liquor the exact same method as you have done. Leaving it as a liquid in the freezer is the best way to go.

Also, as long as you didn't get the alcohol hotter than 180F, I doubt any degradation was caused, since many people steep mushrooms to make tea at hotter temps than that.

 

[mescaphysicality94]

Don't evaporate!!! Oxygen exposure degrades psilocybin! Leave it as liquor and the potency will remain much longer! I always make my mushies into liquor the exact same method as you have done. Leaving it as a liquid in the freezer is the best way to go.

Also, as long as you didn't get the alcohol hotter than 180F, I doubt any degradation was caused, since many people steep mushrooms to make tea at hotter temps than that.

Is this REALLY true though? I know 4-aco-dmt,4-ho-met ect. Degrade much more rapidly in solution than as dry crystals. Why would psiloc(yb)in be any different?

 

[Solipsis]

It kinda depends on how well you protect the dry crystals / matter from oxygen - it is not THAT hard vacuum-sealing and/or double bagging it and/or putting it in a container with oxygen scavenger packets. But during evaporation there would be exposure to oxygen - so putting a slight vacuum / underpressure on it helps and storing it immediately after you dry it, as well.

In solution there is a bit of oxygen dissolved, too - but what's more: in solution molecules - especially some like these - can get ionized which puts them in a more vulnerable position towards degradation.

Solutions are not great in general for compounds that are sensitive, but exposure to air with oxygen (and especially with some trace water residu and perhaps salty stuff idk) is also harmful environment. A bit hard to compare cause it depends on how well you can remove the bad environmental factors.

In this case the biggest problem might be massive oxygen exposure when the last solution evaporates.

Will have to think about a possible way around that... like removing the oxygen by washing the air in a container / adding an inert gas when starting evap and then arranging some way to evaporate in a container with valve set for very light overpressure (a bubbler?).. too bad heating the solution isn't healthy either.

 

[mescaphysicality94]

Yeah, I could see the evaporation process causing issues. Either way it sounds like you may run into some loses, depending on how quick you use it. I just felt like these solutions might quickly go through the same process as a lot folks saw thier 4-aco-dmt go though if not kept in optimal conditions after trying to volumetrically dose it. I just wonder how extreme the oxidization would be in the evaporation process in comparassion to in the solution. I have seen some people say they kept 4-aco-dmt solution for some time but many ward against it as some have said thier solutions went to the point of inactivity VERY quickly, is it possible to negate the oxidization process in the solution by keeping it in optimal conditions? I am just wondering if the oxidization of the evaporation process could be minimalized to the point where it slow oxidization of the solution is less viable for keeping for longer periods of time.

 

[magik_mann]

So I know this is an old thread but I figured I might as well put in my two cents and lay some knowledge on ya lol
AFOAF had copius amounts of psilocybe cubensis and decided to do some experiments with said material and ever clear grain alcohol. One experiment left 7 grams worth of mushroom(dry) extracted into an x amount of Everclear reduced to about say 10ish ml and stored in freezer for a little over 2 years before consumed with no noticeable loss of potency just a noticable color change in tincture over the years. Was not stored in opaque container. AFOAF used a small Mason jar. Another experiment took 14 grams of mushroom(dry) and made tincture in same manner except this time all alcohol was evaporated off using fan and what was left over was a brownish sludge which eventually turned hard-ish and was left in freezer for almost 3 years not an opaque container or Mason jar. Cheap little container from dollar store not too terribly airtight. A friend who was helping AFOAF move found it and inquired as to what it was so someone told him and he wanted to try it. I figured it would be very degraded and not have much of an affect. He ate the ball of goo and within 10 mins AFOAF could tell he was starting to feel it and so did he. Within 15 mins he was tripping his man nuggets off and was a little uneasy lol. He said it definitely felt like a half oz worth but it only lasted about two hours. So to conclude I will say that the alcohol extraction works great and the shelf life is years not months unlike tea. AFOAF still has 3 oz worth of extract in different jars and containers none of which are opaque. Most are nearing the 4 year mark in storage but one is nearing 5 and one is nearing 6. They are labeled as to when they should be opened and consumed. The last jar is labeled at the 10 year mark. AFOAF is no scientist but doesn't believe in the whole it has to be opaque and airtight to stay viable for long periods of time. Anyone else have anything to add to shelf life of extract or dried material???

 

[Xorkoth]

bump for prune