My Experience with SARS-CoV-2

[JessFR]

Yeah it's pretty interesting tbh Jess. Considering I rarely ever get regular colds or flus, this one was quite a surprise.

I rarely get cold or flus either. So much for hoping that that might mean we'd be one of the lucky asymptomatic ones.

Something I find a bit annoying lately is how so many sources seem to be saying that the covid19 is a "trivial" or "mild" disease for most people.

And what they seem to actually mean by that in practice, is that it won't kill you or put you on a ventilator. Anything less than nearly killing you is mild or trivial it seems.

I'm glad you're getting better though.

 

[Genetic Freak]

Whats your thoughts on this:

Covid 19 and the elephant in the room

Obesity and chronic metabolic disease is killing COVID -19 patients: now is the time to eat real food, protect the NHS and save lives. A healthcare system issue Last week I inquired as to how a close friend of mine, a director of research and a senior clinical doctor in one of New York’s’...

www.europeanscientist.com

 

[Serotonin101]

I rarely get cold or flus either. So much for hoping that that might mean we'd be one of the lucky asymptomatic ones.

Something I find a bit annoying lately is how so many sources seem to be saying that the covid19 is a "trivial" or "mild" disease for most people.

And what they seem to actually mean by that in practice, is that it won't kill you or put you on a ventilator. Anything less than nearly killing you is mild or trivial it seems.

I'm glad you're getting better though.

It is a trivial virus. With the new antibody seroanalysis testing, the mortality rate is pretty damn low compared to the numbers the media is hyping.

Antibody tests suggest that coronavirus infections vastly exceed official counts

Study estimates a more than 50-fold increase in coronavirus infections compared to official cases, but experts have raised concerns about the reliability of antibody kits.

www.nature.com

For reference the h1n1 flu had a 1-4% and covid is less than 1% and we didn't panic with h1n1.

 

[JessFR]

It is a trivial virus. With the new antibody seroanalysis testing, the mortality rate is pretty damn low compared to the numbers the media is hyping.

Antibody tests suggest that coronavirus infections vastly exceed official counts

Study estimates a more than 50-fold increase in coronavirus infections compared to official cases, but experts have raised concerns about the reliability of antibody kits.

www.nature.com

For reference the h1n1 flu had a 1-4% and covid is less than 1% and we didn't panic with h1n1.

Bullshit.

Doing a few minutes of googling, using various different estimates for death count, puts the fatality rate for swine flu at about 0.01-0.02%

The total confirmed swine flu deaths in the first year appears to be about 12,000-18,000 by the sources I'm seeing, we are already then 8-16 times that number in a few months.

You only need look at how it's wiping out nursing homes well above the average fatality rates to see how much worse this is than normal.

 

[Serotonin101]

Bullshit.

Doing a few minutes of googling, using various different estimates for death count, puts the fatality rate for swine flu at about 0.01-0.02%

The total confirmed swine flu deaths in the first year appears to be about 12,000-18,000 by the sources I'm seeing, we are already then 8-16 times that number in a few months.

You only need look at how it's wiping out nursing homes well above the average fatality rates to see how much worse this is than normal.

H1N1 Influenza (Swine Flu): Practice Essentials, Background, Epidemiology

Swine flu is a highly contagious respiratory disease in pigs caused by one of several swine influenza A viruses (see the image below). Transmission of swine influenza viruses to humans is uncommon.

www.medscape.com

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-

resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

You're looking at a different outbreak of it I'm assuming. The 1918 flu (Spanish flu) was h1n1 which is what I was referring to.

 

[Serotonin101]

Bullshit.

Doing a few minutes of googling, using various different estimates for death count, puts the fatality rate for swine flu at about 0.01-0.02%

The total confirmed swine flu deaths in the first year appears to be about 12,000-18,000 by the sources I'm seeing, we are already then 8-16 times that number in a few months.

You only need look at how it's wiping out nursing homes well above the average fatality rates to see how much worse this is than normal.

Also comparing flu to this is apples to oranges considering how infectious this disease is compared to the flu. If you read what I posted, it's reasonable to infer we're getting close to a quarter of the population in big cities being infected, likely more.

 

[JessFR]

No I was looking at swine flu, which is what I assume you were talking about cause I assume you're not saying Spanish flu was nothing.

Also something doesn't make sense here.

CDC numbers were one of the ones I relied on in forming my original reply.

I dunno what to tell you about your specific link, but I recommend you look into the number of people swine flu potentially infected and how many died.

Particularly how many died because by that measure alone we can already easily see that covid19 is significantly worse.

I have found a couple different numbers, one appears to be based on total confirmed cases and deaths, the other is an estimated actual cases and deaths resulting from a CDC study.

Using the numbers from either results in a fatality rate well under 1%. The numbers in the enclosed link from the CDC do, so God knows why another CDC link says something else.

One thing is for sure though, it's been a couple months and at least 150,000 are dead, probably more because of how much of the reporting is limited to hospital cases.

And that is way way more than there were in similar recent pandemics in similar time frames.

2009 H1N1 Pandemic

A summary of key events of the 2009 H1N1 pandemic and the CDC's response activities between April 2009 and April 2010.

www.cdc.gov

And it being more infectious isn't really here nor there. Sure more infected with the same death count means lower case fatality ratio. But it's still waaay more people dying than normal.

 

[Serotonin101]

No I was looking at swine flu, which is what I assume you were talking about cause I assume you're not saying Spanish flu was nothing.

Also something doesn't make sense here.

CDC numbers were one of the ones I relied on in forming my original reply.

I dunno what to tell you about your specific link, but I recommend you look into the number of people swine flu potentially infected and how many died.

Particularly how many died because by that measure alone we can already easily see that covid19 is significantly worse.

I have found a couple different numbers, one appears to be based on total confirmed cases and deaths, the other is an estimated actual cases and deaths resulting from a CDC study.

Using the numbers from either results in a fatality rate well under 1%. The numbers in the enclosed link from the CDC do, so God knows why another CDC link says something else.

One thing is for sure though, it's been a couple months and at least 150,000 are dead, probably more because of how much of the reporting is limited to hospital cases.

And that is way way more than there were in similar recent pandemics in similar time frames.

2009 H1N1 Pandemic

A summary of key events of the 2009 H1N1 pandemic and the CDC's response activities between April 2009 and April 2010.

www.cdc.gov

And it being more infectious isn't really here nor there. Sure more infected with the same death count means lower case fatality ratio. But it's still waaay more people dying than normal.

I most definitely agree with the last paragraph. A lot of people are dying but, I'm not sure where you're from, but here in the states the effects of the shutdown will ripple put way into the future and severely impact the lives of many more than even the million or two who would die. I guess my definition of trivial may be different from yours or the way I'm using it, but I don't see this as anything major enough to justify the ramifications of the solution we're implementing here. Our numbers are going to make the great depression look like a joke when it comes to unemployment, and with everything being globalized economically it'll ripple out to affect the rest of the world too. We were definitely under prepared for this, but I feel we need to just move on instead of fighting the process. Otherwise we're on track for a pyrrhic victory, standing on top of the rubble of this country saying that "we won" which I feel isn't worth it.

 

[JessFR]

Well I just don't agree.

Is it possible to so damage the system that it's worth a million lives to prevent it? Maybe. But I don't think that's inevitable at all.

The US is one of the wealthiest countries on the planet. With good leadership, I believe the economic cost, while still severe, would still be well worth saving all those lives.

The problem is that the leadership is terrible, and the result will probably be severe economic harm AND many thousands dead.

I think in the long run what we will see is several countries that managed to save many lives with well and truly acceptable economic damage. Australia, NZ, some of the Asian countries, and a couple others.

The US won't be one of them though, between mismanagement and fucked priorities, the US will have many dead AND a badly damaged economy.

 

[jose ribas da silva]

so @CFC I am wondering whether at this point you are still able to transmit the virus and other good question is about your immunity levels.

 

[jose ribas da silva]

If you have mild symptoms this means that the virus is replicating? or some viral particles were not totally eliminated? that's interesting questions

 

[Genetic Freak]

Bullshit.

Doing a few minutes of googling, using various different estimates for death count, puts the fatality rate for swine flu at about 0.01-0.02%

The total confirmed swine flu deaths in the first year appears to be about 12,000-18,000 by the sources I'm seeing, we are already then 8-16 times that number in a few months.

You only need look at how it's wiping out nursing homes well above the average fatality rates to see how much worse this is than normal.

I might suggest the underlying rate of mortality from COVID-19 might be linked to overwhelming rates of poor metabolic health in countries presenting high death toll..
Having chronic metabolic disease is a major risk on mortality, what is particularly disturbing is only 1:8 of people in USA are described as metabolically healthy 7:8 are at risk.
Less than 1:3 over 20's with normal BMI are actually metabolically healthy.
Recent data from USA shows 65% of over 45's are either diabetic or pre-diabetic in the figures, if insulin is used as a marker results could be as high as 75-80%..
The tragedy is, markers of metabolic syndrome can be reversed in as little as a few weeks with good dietary intervention..

 

[JessFR]

Ehh, I doubt it.

Australia's mortality rate is substantially lower than the US, despite highly similar levels of health.

My guess is that the real mortality rate is close to 0.4% (still way higher than the regular flu), but that we are seeing higher ones due to bad reporting. The countries with the lowest mortality also seem likely to have a much more accurate determination of the total number of cases.

It might also be that the health system becoming overwhelmed contributes to much higher mortality.

 

[Genetic Freak]

Ehh, I doubt it.

Australia's mortality rate is substantially lower than the US, despite highly similar levels of health.

My guess is that the real mortality rate is close to 0.4% (still way higher than the regular flu), but that we are seeing higher ones due to bad reporting. The countries with the lowest mortality also seem likely to have a much more accurate determination of the total number of cases.

It might also be that the health system becoming overwhelmed contributes to much higher mortality.

You would doubt wrong, Dr's promoting strict keto type dietary interventions have shown quick reversal in metabolic markers, what research data there is, is quite clear also...
I have seen it with my own patients, lowered BP, lowered triglycerides, increased HDL, reduced waist circumference, and lowered HbA1C..

There is debate actual contraction numbers could be much higher than reported, as more testing is done this argument should be clarified one way or another, without conducting premature discourse at this time.. Currently here in NZ we have a transmission rate of 0.48% as of today's figures, I expect more precise data when this pandemic is over and everything can be evaluated..

There seems little the health service can do in most cases but to let natural immunity take its course, that's why those with compromised immune function seem to take up the vast majority of deaths...

 

[copium7777]

Yeah not sure mate, could be. I usually hate being hot and get hot/sweaty fairly easily, but didn't really notice it so much, possibly because I was in a lot of constant pain throughout the fever phase and that distracted me.

***

Into day 27 now, and the virus has had a bit of a resurgence over the last two days: heart rate back up to about 90 with a noticeable increase in arrhythmic events (SVEs) this time, more 'head cold' type symptoms in the upper respiratory tract, a complete loss of smell again (it had probably recovered to about 10% of normal, and I could just about sense some odours and flavour in food, but it's gone again), a return of the GI discomfort, and now a persistent UTI as well (presumably because my immune system is generally busted). Overall, feels like another downward swing

The only positive I've noticed is increased sleep. Not 8 hours, but with a few hours at night and then snoozing several times during the day, I do feel better rested than before.

Were u on ARB for BP? Did the virus increase ur BP? I have craniocervical instability which is common in hEDS, causing POTS in my case, and the virus wrecked me

 

[nznity]

@CFC how u feelin' now mate?

 

[CFC]

Sorry, missed all these - didn't get any notifications...

It is a trivial virus

Maybe for you young'uns, but gatdamn it was hell for me Also, every one keeps referring to mortality rates as if it's the only relevant factor here, but it clearly isn't. Many infections that don't kill can nevertheless be qualitatively hellish to live through compared to others with similar mortality rates. Covid does considerably more harm to organs like the liver and kidneys and even the brain than most coronaviruses seem to, and that can leave survivors with a very long recovery period and potentially long-term side effects. I've never been out of action from any other illness for more than a few weeks at most before, but this virus plus recovery has been going on for nearly 2 months now.

so @CFC I am wondering whether at this point you are still able to transmit the virus and other good question is about your immunity levels.

In terms of immunity, they still haven't decided yet whether we'll be able to catch it again, but I would tend to assume in the absence of confirmation that I'm immune for a least a few months now.

If you have mild symptoms this means that the virus is replicating? or some viral particles were not totally eliminated? that's interesting questions

No, I think my immune system had probably mostly eradicated the virus by the end of March, give or take. What I've been experiencing since then is the long-assed recovery phase, plus a likely opportunistic bacterial infection of my prostate, bladder and kidneys in my weakened state that took around 3 weeks to finally clear up. I developed an auto-immune reaction to the first lot of antibiotics I was prescribed as well (never had any allergy to a drug before), which again may point to my immune system still being a tad fucked up after dealing with the virus.

Were u on ARB for BP? Did the virus increase ur BP? I have craniocervical instability which is common in hEDS, causing POTS in my case, and the virus wrecked me

Yes mate, I was on Losaran 100mg/day. The virus significantly increased my heart rate (despite also being on nebivolol) but to a lesser extent BP.

Generally speaking I'm extremely healthy, well fed, fit/lean, and rarely catch colds or flus and when I do they're trivial. So for me this virus has been such an outlier I feel the ARB may well have been an aggravating factor. I feel my somewhat unusual dominant symptoms (extreme myalgias, headaches, head spinning/dizziness, sleeping sickness etc, rather than coughing) may have been a result of the ARB's massive upregulation of ACE2 sites in other parts of the body, which would include the brain/CNS and joints. So I would personally recommend switching off of ARBs to something else until they know for sure how it impacts the virus.

@CFC how u feelin' now mate?

I'm feeling 100% normal physically and energy-wise now thanks mate. I had a series of blood tests, urine tests and a few ultrasound scans of organs over the weekend in hospital and all the results were perfect. I just have a lingering sleeping sickness, inflammation of my lung pleura (apparently fairly common after covid-19) and the ongoing anosmia (inability to smell, or taste), which has barely resolved, so I still can't really scent things or enjoy the flavour of food.

 

[Serotonin101]

Not THE sleeping sickness right?

 

[CFC]

and the virus wrecked me

Sorry mate, I didn't interpret this properly first time around - you're saying you've already had the virus and recovered? Were you taking an ARB when you caught the virus? Have you considered writing up a little report of your own experiences? It could help give a broader perspective for others.

 

[copium7777]

Sorry mate, I didn't interpret this properly first time around - you're saying you've already had the virus and recovered? Were you taking an ARB when you caught the virus? Have you considered writing up a little report of your own experiences? It could help give a broader perspective for others.

I had the virus only probably, not confirmed, but im almost sure i did based on contedt although i didnt get a test. Not on ARBs. I "recovered " in terms of being stabilized and the acute illness but over a month later still way sicker than i was beforehand