Mental Health No benzos for me

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Benzodiazepines definitely do not "damage" anything. This is Benzobuddies/Ashton craziness.

They are the safest and most effective psychiatric drug ever developed. While it is true they lose their effectiveness over time, this is true for all drugs.

For many people, benzodiazepines are the difference between keeping your job, your house, and your life and ending up on the street. Most posters on benzobuddies don't have jobs, live with family/SOs, are on disability, and spend their lives on the internet.

I know at least 5 girls, 3 of whom were raped, who took Ativan or whatever for years and are today fine. What are we supposed to do for such people? Give them weed? Antipsychotics? We already know SSRIs don't work. Have them drink a bottle of wine a night?

There really isn't much literature on possible CNS damage by benzos, but you can probably relate that the dependency is pretty gnarly.

I don't think there's evidence for them being the safest. The withdrawal itself kind of speaks to how hard they can be. They certainly make their impact. It takes a really long time to return to baseline after use of several months or longer. FOr most, not all.

They are kind of known for losing efficacy in the long-term, but not entirely. They have their place, I wager, if need be. A lot of people seem to think that they do lose their efficacy, and to an extent this is probably true. Maybe the placebo effect has a role to play in the long-run continued use--for that, there is science. But I think GABAergics are particularly known for losing their luster. Not entirely, again, but to a large degree.

I totally think that some people do need them, and that they should be left alone about this importance and not have to justfy themselves. But antipsychotics don't really lose efficacy over time. SSRIs are truly a better long-term option than benzos for a large part of the given population, as studies suggest. But yeah if someone is drinking to self-medicate, then that should be explored in the context of medicine.

 

[Just a little pinprick]

I've had some occasional anxiety issues for a long time. I take Lyrica for it but it doesn't always work.

The following drugs has been tried to be taken as needed: chlorprothixene, levomepromazine, flupenthixol, olanzapine, aripiprazole, oxazepam and quetiapine.

These drugs haven't helped so far, and I was asking for something else to try. The psychiatrist said that that's it, there's nothing else that he could prescribe and he won't prescribe benzos.

I think this is a bit shitty situation. I have to suffer from this anxiety condition.

Isn't it even againts medical doctor's ethic to leave the patient suffering?

Should I go to another doctor or what would be a solution for this problem?

And oh, I've tried psychotherapy - it helped for a while, but after a while I was back at where I am currently. And I can't even get any more therapy.

I went the benzo route for a few yrs but the little anxiety you experience now will be magnified 1000x if you mess with benzos,try hydroxyzine I’m over 18 months benzo free and my anxiety been back to normal about a year now and 100 mg of hydroxyzine works as good as 2 mg Valium for me now,it’s non addictive and easy to get from your regular doc
It’s just something to take the edge off

 

[cdin]

e

I went the benzo route for a few yrs but the little anxiety you experience now will be magnified 1000x if you mess with benzos,try hydroxyzine I’m over 18 months benzo free and my anxiety been back to normal about a year not and 100 mg of hydroxyzine works as good as 2 mg Valium for me now,it’s non addictive and easy to get from your regular doc
It’s just something to take the edge off

xactly my experience. they damage the same systems they are "treating" but also important to note - both 1st gen antihistamines (like hydrox) and benzos carry risk of long term cognitive impairment/dementia.

 

[Just a little pinprick]

e

xactly my experience. they damage the same systems they are "treating" but also important to note - both 1st gen antihistamines (like hydrox) and benzos carry risk of long term cognitive impairment/dementia.

Even at low doses , 100 mg a day?

I take them with melatonin at night

My fathrrs got dementia, i dont wanna go out like that…

 

[cdin]

Even at low doses , 100 mg a day?

I take them with melatonin at night

My fathrrs got dementia, i dont wanna go out like that…

whoooaaa! 100mg a day is NOT a low dose. i would get the eff off that.

 

[Just a little pinprick]

whoooaaa! 100mg a day is NOT a low dose. i would get the eff off that.

Mayo Clinic says 50-100 mg 4 times a day ,I’m taking 100 once a day at night,that’s a 1/4 of max recommended dose..

Hydroxyzine (Oral Route) Proper Use - Mayo Clinic

www.mayoclinic.org

 

[cdin]

Mayo Clinic says 50-100 mg 4 times a day ,I’m taking 100 once a day at night,that’s a 1/4 of max recommended dose..

Hydroxyzine (Oral Route) Proper Use - Mayo Clinic

www.mayoclinic.org

that is intense. I was RXd 50mg a day and after about 8 months in the kaiser pharmacist called me to be like "you really should get yourself off this 1st gen antihistamine" .. I found the over anticholinergic effects so intense there im shocked af they are recommending 400mg a day max. seems like your short term memory would be annihilated. I'd feel very uncomfortable at that dose for an extended period, but by all means do you.

Cumulative Use of Strong Anticholinergic Medications and Incident Dementia

Many medications have anticholinergic effects. The general view is that anticholinergic-induced cognitive impairment is reversible upon medication discontinuation. However, a few studies suggest that anticholinergic medications may be associated with ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

the results section of that is pretty interesting. I wish i had the full article.

RESULTS​

The most common anticholinergic drug classes used were tricyclic antidepressants, first generation antihistamines and bladder antimuscarinics. Over a mean follow-up of 7.3 years, 797 participants (23%) developed dementia (637 developed Alzheimer’s). A 10-year cumulative dose-response relationship was observed for both dementia and Alzheimer’s disease (test for trend, p<0.001). For dementia, adjusted hazard ratios (HRs) and 95% confidence interval (CI) for cumulative anticholinergic use was 0.92 (95% CI, 0.74-1.16) for 1-90 TSDD; 1.19 (CI, 0.94-1.51) for 91-365 TSDD; 1.23 (CI, 0.94-1.62) for 366-1095 TSDD; and 1.54 (95% CI, 1.21-1.96) for >1095 TSDD, compared to non-use. A similar pattern of results was noted for Alzheimer’s disease. Results were robust to secondary, sensitivity and post-hoc analyses.


which is why the pharmacist was calling me, i assume, because she knew that it depended on total cumulative standard daily doses. that freaks me out now that im lookng at it and calculating the amount of benadryl, hydroxizine and doxylmine ive eaten over decades ://

 

[Eryximachus]

The effects of benzodiazepines on cognition - PubMed

Initially thought to be virtually free of negative effects, benzodiazepines are now known to carry risks of dependence, withdrawal, and negative side effects. Among the most controversial of these side effects are cognitive effects. Long-term treatment with benzodiazepines has been described as...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'm still experiencing the effects 2.5 years out, so i have to respectfully disagree with your position. my seizure thresshold/glutamate issues are way exacerbated, as is are my PTSD symptoms, all after benzos.I can compare it easily to damage i have experienced from other gaba agents that are known to have long term negative effects. I'm open to info that shows me something else, but my experience and research has not turned that up.

All drugs have potentially long-term issues. And I personally wish I had never touched them. At the same time, studies done on effectively all psychiatric medications are never long enough to truly give you the information you desire.

There is a bias towards older medication simply because there is more data. Every new psychiatric drug is proclaimed as being better than the last, but decades go by and that isn't so evident.

 

[Eric1987]

I am currently in a situation where I'm looking for advice and help because I was on benzodiazepines back in 2015 for about 4 months, and for those 4 months I was able to actually function in the world and since then I have been struggling to find a doctor that is willing to put me back on them and listen to what I'm saying I am currently in and out of er's in and out of doctor's offices and all of them just treat me like drug addicts and that's not what I am I have used drugs in the past but I haven't probably now for over 10 years and the only thing that's ever helped my anxiety was benzos and I tried Centerstone for the second time today when I had my appointment with the psychiatrist he asked me what worked and I told him that in 2015 I was on clonazepam and celexa and trazodone and medication for blood pressure and it all worked fine but just a brief history about myself since 2015 I haven't been able to hold down the steady job due to my anxiety I only sleep about 3 or 4 hours a night and that's broken up suffer from insomnia panic attacks social anxiety I'm afraid to go to work because of my anxiety and it almost feels like it's crippling me and basically I explained all that and I was meeting with the psychiatrist today and basically he told me that he does have people that he prescribed them for but he doesn't want to prescribe them for me and I don't know what it is I don't know how people are getting them I don't know how they get prescribed but whenever I was getting prescribed benzos in 2015 I took them like I was supposed to I never abused them I didn't drink on them I didn't do anything and I lost my insurance and so ultimately I couldn't go back to the doctor anymore and it's just been a living hell since then and I've reached out for help multiple times and it just seems like when you reach out for help you don't get it and it's not a medication that I want to stay on for a long time but considering how my past has been all throughout the years I know I need a medication like that and I just can't find it I thought Centerstone was a place to go but evidently it's not so please help with any advice or recommendations on how to approach a Dr about this.

 

[Eric1987]

I've had some occasional anxiety issues for a long time. I take Lyrica for it but it doesn't always work.

The following drugs has been tried to be taken as needed: chlorprothixene, levomepromazine, flupenthixol, olanzapine, aripiprazole, oxazepam and quetiapine.

These drugs haven't helped so far, and I was asking for something else to try. The psychiatrist said that that's it, there's nothing else that he could prescribe and he won't prescribe benzos.

I think this is a bit shitty situation. I have to suffer from this anxiety condition.

Isn't it even againts medical doctor's ethic to leave the patient suffering?

Should I go to another doctor or what would be a solution for this problem?

And oh, I've tried psychotherapy - it helped for a while, but after a while I was back at where I am currently. And I can't even get any more therapy.

I'm in the same boat, it's unfortunate that we have to suffer like this. I was in a appointment today at Centerstone and I basically got shot down whenever I went in there and just laid everything out for him and told him how I've been suffering for years and in and out of emergency rooms and doctor's appointments and basically feeling crippled because of my anxiety I don't hold steady jobs because of it I've lost so many jobs in the past and go to so many interviews but never do the work because my anxiety is so bad and I don't have an answer but I went to the Centerstone today and just beg for help and just got shot down willing to prescribe everything except what works for me and the Man actually asked me what has worked for me and I told him and when I told him he didn't want to I don't know why they asked that question if they're not going to help you I mean I don't know I'm looking for advice and anything about how to approach a doctor pertaining that subject I even told the psychiatrist earlier that I'm willing to come up with a plan to meet certain goals and I'll do pill counts and I'll do anything I just would like to have something as a backup for extreme moments and he wasn't even willing to do that so I don't know what the answer is but I would love some advice as well.

 

[Bleaney]

If you feel that you want or need benzos but can't obtain them via a Dr or other professional service that basically leaves 2 options.

Do without them, or obtain them through other means.

Some people would not consider breaking the law, other people may feel that they are forced into a corner by a system that refuses to help them.

 

[paranoid android]

Im prescribed clonazepam for anxiety and zopiclone for sleep and at the moment im addicted to neither. I was addicted to clonazepam but came off it cold turkey in the psych ward. So you don't .always have to get addicted to it and even if you do it's only really a problem if you run out with for me didnt happen until i was locked up

Really if everything else has failed it would be worth it to find a shrink thats more openminded perhaps.

 

[Bleaney]

In order to try to reduce benzo tolerance/dependence/addiction issues I have tried to have days off from taking them.

I have found that the days aren't too much of a problem (as long as I don't have to be around people too much). But the nights have proved more tricky, as the rebound insomnia that presents when abstaining from benzos following their usage on previous day(s) is problematic and difficult to deal with. It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't work, as obviously it's more difficult to go to work and try to be pleasant to people if you've slept very badly, if at all.

CBD capsules worked great for sleep for a short while, but unfortunately I have seem to have built a tolerance very quickly (within 2 weeks) and so they are no longer effective. I have seen / heard other people say similar things. And this was with only taking them a couple of days a week, so that has been disappointing. I don't see much point in going down the ever increasing dosage route as the tolerance has been so quick to build this will quickly be futile.

A fairly desperate and last resort type measure that does work is to combine increasing amounts of whisky with Mirtazapine in order to be able to sleep. But the whole thing is starting to get messy and difficult now.

 

[paranoid android]

^ Using alcohol for sleep is a horrible idea. It messes with your sleep really badly. I found remeron on it's own knocked me right the hell out at 15mg's i think

 

[Bleaney]

^ Using alcohol for sleep is a horrible idea. It messes with your sleep really badly. I found remeron on it's own knocked me right the hell out at 15mg's i think

Yeah I've been taking Mirtazapine for quite a few years now, at steadily increasing doses due to tolerance.

I've been using it for sleep although I'm prescribed it for anxiety/depression - on which it had no noticeable effect.

It has lost it's sleep inducing effect now though and I need to figure out what my next move is going to be.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Did you ever try a NMDA receptor antagonist (aka dissociative), and if, how did you react? These compounds can be quite strong anxiolytics and with memantine we have one around which isn't as psychotomimetic as the usual dissociative is. It has been evaluated in a bunch of papers, and I tolerate it pretty well, only side effect is insomnia with higher dosages. For me personally low-dose (75-150mg) dextromethorphan worked wonders as well and more reliably than pregabalin but at some point it stopped working (I did abuse it and other dissociatives and built heavy tolerance, which is probably why).

Memantine as an augmentation therapy for anxiety disorders - PubMed

Objective. Glutamate, an excitatory neurotransmitter in the central nervous system (CNS), may play a role in the development of anxiety. Memantine partially blocks N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptors' glutamate channels located in the CNS. This paper evaluates memantine as an augmentation...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Memantine and Stress and anxiety - a study of FDA data | eHealthMe

There are 8,995 people reported to have side effects when taking Memantine. Among them, 175 (1.95%) have stress and anxiety. These people tend to be female, 60+ old, have been taking the drug for < 1 month, also take medication Nuplazid, and have Parkinson's disease

www.ehealthme.com

Yeah, don't drink yourself to sleep. If you're in a situation where only GABAergics help (I am somebody who can take 15 or 90[!}mg mirtazapine without any effects, same with other antihistamines) then I'd recommend zopiclone. I've been using it for like 3 months in a row and had no withdrawal - this isn't recommended, it should not be used on a daily basis for longer, but gives you an impression about its safety,

 

[Bleaney]

I've tried MXE several times at recreational doses and enjoyed it on some of those occasions. I've never thought of using any of these things as functional tools against anxiety, I don't think I have access to anything in this class of drugs at the moment anyway.

Can they be helpful for anxiety at low doses?

Benzos work great for me for that, plus they help me mask my Autism.

The Z drugs are basically the same thing as Benzos in my opinion, only they are tweaked more for their sleep inducing effects rather than their anti-anxiety properties. So I don't think that would help me keep my tolerance/dependence and potential addiction to this class of drugs at bay for as long as possible.

I'm gonna start a new thread for this I think, as it is taking the OPs thread slightly off course.

 

[plumbus-nine]

I've tried MXE several times at recreational doses and enjoyed it on some of those occasions. I've never thought of using any of these things as functional tools against anxiety, I don't think I have access to anything in this class of drugs at the moment anyway.

Can they be helpful for anxiety at low doses?

Dissociatives in low dose are great anxiolytics. The only ones which aren't sedating (in fact, dissos are more stims than sedatives). Not without side effects and risks but great. I am speaking about 5-10mg MXE (without tolerance).

 

[paranoid android]

Dissociatives in low dose are great anxiolytics. The only ones which aren't sedating (in fact, dissos are more stims than sedatives). Not without side effects and risks but great. I am speaking about 5-10mg MXE (without tolerance).

I found ketamine to be great for anxiety. There is no anxiety in the k hole lol

 

[plumbus-nine]

I found ketamine to be great for anxiety. There is no anxiety in the k hole lol

Yeah, ket works as well but it's too short lasting for to be practical to use. MXE et. al. last maybe 3x as long and can be used with 2-3 daily doses. But you don't need to hole to get anxiolysis!