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Nobody has freewill.

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
Messages
84,998
Nobody has free will. People say it exists because they can't stand the thought of them not being in control of their self. They have no more control than that of a rock, tree, bird or insect. Everything ever done had to be done. Nothing else could've happened. Nobody could've done anything other than what they did.
 
How can somebody say that they could've done something other than what they did? They could not possibly know that.
 
I don't think it's an illusion. I think people know it doesn't exist but they pretend like they believe in it so they don't sound and look crazy. They think they'd sound crazy for believing that they don't have control of their body. But deep down they know they have no control.
 
As in I think people know that they don't have free will and that they know that they don't have control of their body and actions, but they tell other people that they do have control of their body so that people don't think that they're crazy and are being control.
 
ok but in what way according to your idea they would not have such controls? Are you implying our lives are all "pre-programmed"? That I don't get....
 
Yes, I don't understand how or why that is so but I do believe it to be true. I don't see how we could possibly do something different in the future other than what we do. But like I said I don't understand why its true. Like what's the point.
 
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ok got you then, honestly it's a theory you can't absolutely deny, I find it rather simplistic and childish though, a theory I explored when I was a young teen, don't put much "seriousness" on it now even though I myself several times think I'm just predestined to live the life I've been living without power to change it now or in the future.
 
We use history as information to make informed decisions ( a branch of free will).

What would you do if you had free will? If you say something like I "I would become Spider-Man" or " I would start to fly" and then you realize you can't do that.. then your freewill has failed..

So if you could do anything you wanted.. including the miraculous then freewill would be true..

The question is: Can we attain freewill?

I think so.. all the prophets and Messiahs didn't work for nothing..

One ^ of the reasons to take up The Great Work..

Or do Magick and Alchemy..!?

But subjective points of view are always welcome in The Name of The Lord.
 
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Nobody has free will. People say it exists because they can't stand the thought of them not being in control of their self. They have no more control than that of a rock, tree, bird or insect. Everything ever done had to be done. Nothing else could've happened. Nobody could've done anything other than what they did.
I would argue that it is usually the ones who don’t believe in free will are the ones who are trying to uphold their 3 dimensional pretenses. They think that science and secularism and materialism rules over all and they adopt the elitist mentality that says that crazy people should be punished for their actions and put in mental hospitals. That mentality was given to us by the modern Western/European structure. You base your beliefs on the findings that are attributed to that particular structure or frame of thought and I can assure you it is not a very reliable structure/frame of thought when it comes to the totality of reality. And I hope that even if you don’t understand any of the words that are in this post, you can at least absorb that one out of all of them. Seeing as how it is an important thing to acknowledge about the reality of our current civilization situation or the conglomeration of various establishments that are linked together in some form another in order to maintain some kind of economic order. More so than trying to come up with new and creative ideas to resolve our current social dilemmas or to form long lasting solutions that actually benefit mankind in the long run.

Instead we chose to be dependent upon the economic and the political and governmental branches of our society and blindly follow its agenda to create world government and consolidation of consciousness to the point of total surveillance and no freedom/free will. They have brainwashed people to believe that they don’t have a will of their own and that they need to rely on these particular structures and paradigms and establishments because they supposedly know what’s best for us. Because if people were to recognize the power of their free will, they wouldn’t be subjected to the influences of these various establishments and instead would be able to expand their awareness and increase their logic and reasoning skills to the point where they can see the flaws in the methodologies of modern science. They would, in fact, be able to perceive the more objective reality that lies beyond its grasp. If free will was activated and realized in society, many people would be able to create their own reality a lot easier and inevitably end up disrupting the current paradigm.

The current socioeconomic and government structures does not value authentic living or will of the individual. They are designed to keep us locked in a domain of suffering and constant illusion and determinism. It is designed to gradually diminish the soul aspect of us which is constantly trying to flow through us at all times. It is our constant resistance and our unresolved emotional traumas that keep our soul energy from flowing through our body in a healthy way as it should. And these various structures that dominate our society are designed to perpetuate the trauma that society has within them instead of providing actual genuine healing for them or providing different avenues of thought to help people think differently and give them better solutions for their life problems.

Instead it is all pretense and trying to uphold social moral standards that one does not authentically feel but rather they feel pressured by society to behave in a certain way so that they don’t seem evil or bad or as you say, crazy. These are the people i feel tend to lean more towards the secular physical explanation of things and the idea that free will doesnt exist. For example, the psychology aspect of our society is warped beyond belief. It will tell you that medication for children is a good thing and that it can help you get your life back together as an adult. But those medications have been known to increase risk of suicide and cause a lot of other effects that are harmful to both the physical and the spiritual or metaphysical body. Why is it that the only solution that we have to mental illness in our society is to refer drugs to those whose minds are already warped?? Many things about this world that don’t make sense and really give off an energy of just laziness and unconsciousness and lack of creativity and only following a strict rigid set of rules and regulations that you are not allowed to deviate from. And if you deviate from them then you are seen as alternative or even worse they see your ideas as harmful

I mean do you honestly believe that if someone were to just decide to do a whole bunch of fucked up shit for no reason then it was predetermined to be like that?? We have thoughts and we have dreams and we have inner impulses and desires that contradict the things that we ultimately end up doing outwardly with our behavior and reactions to things. We can choose to indulge those impulses any time we want and fuck up our lives and disrupt other peoples lives around us but we don’t, why? Because we have free will and we have love and focus and desire and intention and a desire to sustain our society instead of destroy it. If we didn’t have those things to keep us on the path of survival, then we actually would just do a whole bunch of fucked up shit for no reason until our society eventually collapse like I’ve explained a couple times at least. I wish people could understand that concept better. Your lack in belief of free will is a result of you not understanding that basic concept of determinism being the destroyer and free will being the creator. As long as we have life flowing through us we are able to create new ways of thought and new avenues of evolution. And when we do that we are acting in accordance with free will. We are not predetermined to just follow one single outcome. It would be impossible to evolve and even contradict science interestingly enough. I feel like if you can fully understand the words I’m speaking to you, you would see the absurdity of that notion that there is just one reality.

So by your logic everyone who is homeless and a drug addict is just like that because the universe predetermined them to be like that and they can’t really do anything about it until the predetermined point comes in their life when they can finally overcome. By your logic if society falls then we couldn’t really do much about right? Do you see the passivity and the compliance to corporate systems and the laziness of that attitude and how that can give you a false sense of reality that prevents you from exerting yourself and making it so that you create a better and better life for yourself and gain more enlightenment?? What if someone in your family dies? Was that predetermined? If you decided to let someone drown instead of saving them was that predetermined? We have all had moments where we do something different than what we originally think. We change our minds constantly. Just because you actually decided on what you’re going to do and follow through with it doesn’t mean that’s the only reality you could have ever experienced. You say “how can you possibly know that we can go in other directions”. Well I would ask the reversal to you and ask you how could you possibly know that there is only one single way things could happen if you can’t go back in time and scientifically perform an experiment on and find out if you could have went in another direction?? Both of the ideas are subjected to that dilemma. Not just my position or any other person who believes free will.

In my opinion it is the people who believe in free will who usually tend to be the innovators of society. Because they are aware of the greater potential of man’s capabilities. And they usually tend to be seen as outcasts or outsiders or black sheep anyways. And so they actually don’t mind being seen as crazy or out of control or something like that. They might even take pride in it a little because they understand that it is just judgements from insecure people that hate themselves and project that hatred onto others. That is why I feel like your logic is flawed and you have been mislead by corporate entities who benefit off of your unwillingness to exert your will in any significant or authentic way and create actual change in society which would render those systems useless.
 
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Nobody has free will. People say it exists because they can't stand the thought of them not being in control of their self. They have no more control than that of a rock, tree, bird or insect. Everything ever done had to be done. Nothing else could've happened. Nobody could've done anything other than what they did.
In some ways, you are correct. In other ways, you are demonstrably wrong.

I like to say we have a limited free will. That limit being nature and physics.

I cannot will to fly and expect to do so. At least not intelligently.

I have a little test that demonstrates to you that you have a free will, should you care to take it.

All you need do is give up your free will to mine.

It askes that, --- if you choose to, --- to reply to this post starting with the letter "I".

If you can give up your will as I ask, it demonstrates that you have one.

If you choose to begin your reply some other way, you will note that it is still you demonstrating your free will.

The test is a proof of concept of a limited free will, --- either way.

Regards
DL
 
They think that science and secularism and materialism rules over all and they adopt the elitist mentality that says that crazy people should be punished for their actions and put in mental hospitals.

What is your solution for/to the criminally insane problem?

Freedom is too dangerous for the public, including you and I.

Regards
DL
 
A simplistic dead end that does not explain what it is or how it works.

Regards
DL
For life is like a movie, we are just spectators and there's only one way things could've been. How it is now is the only possibility, if we thought things could've been different...that's wrong. It's just an illusion, the only thing that is real is NOW.
 
In my opinion there is no consensual anything. Does that make sense? Everybody is forced to everything that they experience. Whether it be that they experience this or that. They can go to heaven or hell. Or purgatory. In either of the ways they have to be where they are. At all times. Whether good, bad, or okay. They must be exactly how they are. No matter the experience.
 
In my opinion there is no consensual anything. Does that make sense? Everybody is forced to everything that they experience. Whether it be that they experience this or that. They can go to heaven or hell. Or purgatory. In either of the ways they have to be where they are. At all times. Whether good, bad, or okay. They must be exactly how they are. No matter the experience.
Wherever they end up they must be.
 
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So I think we exist in this eternal moment in a middle point between determinism and freewill..

Could determinism be what we determine to do?
 
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