On the Demonisation of Methamphetamine on Bluelight

[thegreenhand]

^I agree.

In WWII the axis used meth and the allies used amp sulfate. The allies had the advantage cause they could take it, get in six hours of combat, then sleep.

The sleep is one of the biggest factors for sure

Tbh I’m not entirely convinced amphetamine psychosis isn’t driven almost entirely by sleep deprivation.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

If I read that right, then yeah. That and lack of nourishment (bathing, eating, etc.)

 

[thegreenhand]

I was trying to say I think amph psychosis is a result of sleep deprivation, not a result of the pharmacology of the drug. If that makes sense

And yep nutrition is a big one too

 

[acklac7]

Put simply, it's just too strong of a drug.

And you don’t know what’s in it.

 

[Nas47]

^I agree.

In WWII the axis used meth and the allies used amp sulfate. The allies had the advantage cause they could take it, get in six hours of combat, then sleep.

Yes axis use pervitine and other tablet form-combo meth+eucodal(oxy).After special mission ss combat units must relax a few days to refresh.Years ago known of mine have a bunch of pills from military reserve.We call em "soldiers".They contain about 300mg aspirin + 15mg amph.sulfate

 

[dalpat077]

Although I hadn't actually seen the calculated targeting of meth-users on Bluelight, I figured it must be an issue here due to the essay written about it in the OP. Then I remembered "oh yeah, meth! Exacerbating non-issues since 1893".

^ This cracks me up every single time I see it or think about it!

 

[Jabberwocky]

^ This cracks me up every single time I see it or think about it!

It’s funny cause it’s true. But to be fair, when things are quiet it is the responsibility of the Mods, of which OP was one back then, to think up and post conversation starters. In the League Tables OP ranks quite high in doing this as measured by subsequent thread lengths. Though you yourself may indeed rank higher without even being a mod.

 

[unodelacosa]

I hate & love meth

I think people tend to go a bit overboard with this substance, either demonizing it or greatly overrating it. It's just another stimulant with its own pros and cons.

I've made choices while on this drug that will affect me for the rest of my life, yet that hasn't stopped me from using it for some reason. Not sure why and probably never will be.

Sometimes I guess we all take the good with the bad. Also, most of us are good at lying to ourselves, and likely so were our ancestors and perhaps this sort of selective memory is an evolutionary advantage, who knows?

Also has anyone noticed what happens when they rub a shard between their index finger and thumb? Small bits of skin peel off!

Hmmm. If it's reasonably pure gear, it just rolls between my fingers, no peeling skin. Either you're seeing bits of cut crumbling off, or something else is giving you dry skin on your fingers, and the shard is sort exfoliating… or it's also possible I just don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, and you've got some particularly gnarly tina ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yeah. I pretty much came to the conclusion years ago that is not only caustic, it's sharp.

Methamphetamine hydrochloride is technically not caustic in the strict sense of the word. When dissolved in water, it tends to be slightly acidic. Conversely sodium hydroxide—aka “caustic soda”—is basic/alkaline and will raise pH. It will neutralize acids. There are acid burns, but there are also caustic burns that can be caused by, for instance, a hot lye solution (NaOH, again). To be fair, from a descriptivist standpoint, the words corrosive, acidic, and caustic are all commonly used interchangeably, so it's nothing to sweat. I just mean to point out there's a reason why lye is called “caustic soda” and it's relevant that it neutralizes acids. Meanwhile damage done to any dermal layer from methamphetamine seems more likely to be caused by excess hydrochloride used by the manufacturer, which is not uncommon.

Would it be ok to mix a pinch of baking soda with it in the syringe? I want to make it less caustic

It's not advised to do this. With heat and agitation, the NaHCO₃ would go into solution and preferentially bond its Na to the Cl molecule from Meth.HCl. This would result in the freeing up of alkaline meth, which is an oil and insoluble in water. As an oil, meth would need to be vaporized or swallowed, and if the latter method, meth will bond to the hydrochloric acid in the stomach to form the water-soluble salt methamphetamine.hcl once more. In other words, it's likely to lower the bioavailability if you add NaHCO₃ to a solution of crystal methamphetamine.

 

[simstim]

I think people tend to go a bit overboard with this substance, either demonizing it or greatly overrating it. It's just another stimulant with its own pros and cons.

Sometimes I guess we all take the good with the bad. Also, most of us are good at lying to ourselves, and likely so were our ancestors and perhaps this sort of selective memory is an evolutionary advantage, who knows?

Hmmm. If it's reasonably pure gear, it just rolls between my fingers, no peeling skin. Either you're seeing bits of cut crumbling off, or something else is giving you dry skin on your fingers, and the shard is sort exfoliating… or it's also possible I just don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, and you've got some particularly gnarly tina ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Methamphetamine hydrochloride is technically not caustic in the strict sense of the word. When dissolved in water, it tends to be slightly acidic. Conversely sodium hydroxide—aka “caustic soda”—is basic/alkaline and will raise pH. It will neutralize acids. There are acid burns, but there are also caustic burns that can be caused by, for instance, a hot lye solution (NaOH, again). To be fair, from a descriptivist standpoint, the words corrosive, acidic, and caustic are all commonly used interchangeably, so it's nothing to sweat. I just mean to point out there's a reason why lye is called “caustic soda” and it's relevant that it neutralizes acids. Meanwhile damage done to any dermal layer from methamphetamine seems more likely to be caused by excess hydrochloride used by the manufacturer, which is not uncommon.

It's not advised to do this. With heat and agitation, the NaHCO₃ would go into solution and preferentially bond its Na to the Cl molecule from Meth.HCl. This would result in the freeing up of alkaline meth, which is an oil and insoluble in water. As an oil, meth would need to be vaporized or swallowed, and if the latter method, meth will bond to the hydrochloric acid in the stomach to form the water-soluble salt methamphetamine.hcl once more. In other words, it's likely to lower the bioavailability if you add NaHCO₃ to a solution of crystal methamphetamine.

Yeah, corrosive is the word I was looking for.

@polarthedog i think that's what you meant, too. Meth burns when injected no matter how you slice it.

That's nothing compared to IV propofol. That shit REALLY burns!!! It's dissolved in soybean oil because it doesn't dissolve well in water. It's also designed to be given with an IV drip. Shit burns worse than any other drug I've IV'd when you shoot straight propofol solution. Like bring you to tears kind of pain.

 

[acklac7]

I was trying to say I think amph psychosis is a result of sleep deprivation, not a result of the pharmacology of the drug. If that makes sense

And yep nutrition is a big one too

I got sleep. I got exercise. I ate healthy. I ingested miniscule amounts. But still, it now causes me to go into psychosis within a week of taking it every day straight, every.last.time. Granted, I've been through some weird, wild shit while on it, and I'm bi-polar as well, but still.

 

[acklac7]

@unodelacosa

Oh it was gnarly tina for sure. It was purchased from a real pro that sold like 8 different drugs to customers all over the world. They were just raking in bitcoins 24 hours a day.

I snorted 1 match sized line and cursed out loud because it was my first time feeling that burning

I felt amazing for 6 hours

Not super stimulated, but just right. Very energetic, happy, social, and relaxed. It was almost like I had done a small amount of MDMA.

I've had Meth like that. It's real crisp, real "clear". It's like you're on it but you're not. Very similar to @negrogesic experience with Desoxyn.

 

[thegreenhand]

I got sleep. I got exercise. I ate healthy. I ingested miniscule amounts. But still, it now causes me to go into psychosis within a week of taking it every day straight, every.last.time. Granted, I've been through some weird, wild shit while on it, and I'm bi-polar as well, but still.

you may simply be an individual who is prone to psychosis. having a first episode of psychosis is decent predictor of having future psychotic episodes

the things that work for typical people might just not be enough for you, no shame in that. if you have discovered that regular low doses of meth cause you to enter psychosis, it's probably best you avoid using the drug with such regularity.

 

[acklac7]

you may simply be an individual who is prone to psychosis. having a first episode of psychosis is decent predictor of having future psychotic episodes

the things that work for typical people might just not be enough for you, no shame in that. if you have discovered that regular low doses of meth cause you to enter psychosis, it's probably best you avoid using the drug with such regularity.

Oh, I'm never using it again, at least not the street form, it's just not fun anymore? It's in absolutley no-way pleasurable? It's in absolutely no-way beneficial? All it does is drive me nuts anymore. It's not fun. I'd just assume use adderall or the later prescription-based ADHD Medication.

That said, It would be interesting to see if Desoxyn caused the same problem(s).

 

[thegreenhand]

Oh, I'm never using it again, at least not the street form, it's just not fun anymore? It's in absolutley no-way pleasurable? All it does is drive me nuts anymore. It's not fun. I'd just assume use adderall or the later prescription-based ADHD Medication.

That said, It would be interesting to see if Desoxyn caused the same problem(s).

i definitely get the desire to try pharma grade stuff. that said, street meth in the US (i think you're based there?) is generally of high quality. but ya never know for sure

other amphetamines still might cause you to enter psychosis too though, so just be careful

 

[simstim]

I got sleep. I got exercise. I ate healthy. I ingested miniscule amounts. But still, it now causes me to go into psychosis within a week of taking it every day straight, every.last.time. Granted, I've been through some weird, wild shit while on it, and I'm bi-polar as well, but still.

Experiencing psychosis and 'going through some shit' are both likely to cause this to resurface IME. Same thing happened to me with MDPV years ago. I've avoided all of the analogs for years because of this.

 

[Lysosomalstorage]

Oh, I'm never using it again, at least not the street form, it's just not fun anymore? It's in absolutley no-way pleasurable? It's in absolutely no-way beneficial? All it does is drive me nuts anymore. It's not fun. I'd just assume use adderall or the later prescription-based ADHD Medication.

That said, It would be interesting to see if Desoxyn caused the same problem(s).

Really glad to see you're better now

 

[acklac7]

Really glad to see you're better now

Thanks man, doing much better, I bounce-out of psychosis pretty quick (once I stop using Meth)

That said, man, some of the things that are/were going on in my life? Like what.the.fuck. You simply would not believe. Not all of what was going on was psychosis-induced delusions, I can tell you that much.

 

[Jabberwocky]

you may simply be an individual who is prone to psychosis. having a first episode of psychosis is decent predictor of having future psychotic episodes

the things that work for typical people might just not be enough for you, no shame in that. if you have discovered that regular low doses of meth cause you to enter psychosis, it's probably best you avoid using the drug with such regularity.

Oh, I'm never using it again, at least not the street form, it's just not fun anymore? It's in absolutley no-way pleasurable? It's in absolutely no-way beneficial? All it does is drive me nuts anymore. It's not fun. I'd just assume use adderall or the later prescription-based ADHD Medication.

That said, It would be interesting to see if Desoxyn caused the same problem(s).

I don’t think anyone should feel any shame from substance-induced psychosis. And it’s a pretty diverse range of substances that can induce it including prescription medications.

For example I had some very bizarre experiences when I was prescribed SSRI’s years ago for Depression (when I actually had something more like ADHD + BPD). They induced the most extreme mania that most observers probably would have described as ‘psychotic behaviour’.

I was very lucky not to get arrested or sectioned just for taking what my doctor prescribed me.

Yet I was able to inject up to a gram a day of super-pure d-meth for six months at the rate of using an average of 3-4 days out of every 7 without ever seeming to have a stray thought, delusion of grandeur, or violent impulse and only a very brief visit by some noisy shadow people at the end and I rationally comprehended what they actually represented.

But I also had two bouts of psychosis seemingly brought on by nothing but extreme psychological stress and maybe drinking too much alcohol too often. And I’ve actually seen more psychotic drinkers tearing places up then I have tweakers.

In fact more of the tweakers in psychosis I’ve seen were locked in an obsessive/compulsive type mental loop (usually involving some kind of monitoring by a mysterious third party) than violent rage. The rage/violence associated with tweakers seems to me possibly more to do with withdrawal/comedown than psychosis when high.

When I first started using I felt extreme emotional swings, including towards anger, about 2 days after the last dose of a binge. Never during.

 

[thegreenhand]

yep i've gone psychotic from lsd and weed before. things just happen like that sometimes.

alcohol is actually one of the few drugs that can (sort of) be a predictor of violence.

my delusions during the lsd and weed psychosis were mainly that i had died and gone to the afterlife. i never thought about hurting anyone. although i did almost hurt myself by running into the road. i thought since i was in the afterlife i couldn't die twice... gotta love degeneracy huh?

psychosis is poorly defined thing and it's an especially stigmatized mental health problem. the media sensationalizes psychosis by sharing stories of serial killers and things like that. even though people with schizophrenia, for example, are less likely to commit a violent act.

psychosis happens to a lot more people than most think (about 3% of the population). sometimes reality just gets a bit too tricky to decipher and one becomes detached. i dont see it as different than an anxiety attack or an acute onslaught of suicidal/depressive thoughts. the symptoms are often transient and resolve on their own. just my 2 cents...

 

[unodelacosa]

Yes axis use pervitine and other tablet form-combo meth+eucodal(oxy)

So it was called “Pervitin” and I believe the etymology goes something like: “for vitality / vigor“, though I admit this is just my own speculation. I believe the accent falls on the second syllable of the word, so like “per-VIT-in” whereas the spelling “pervitine” implies an earlier stress, like “PERV-eh-teen”. I mean, I know meth is an aphrodisiac and all, but… lol. Calling it PERVitine is fuckin’ hilarious to me right now (but that’s probs bc I’m tripping ️ ).

That said, It would be interesting to see if Desoxyn caused the same problem(s).

My best guess is: yes, it would eventually cause you the same trouble, though it probably depends on the dose and your general health and rest when using it. Idk, maybe @negrogesic can back me up here, but I believe the drug-induced psychosis state that resembles schizotypal personality disorder replete with delusions of persecution, paranoia, and so & so forth? … I believe this is the result of someone prone to over-expressing dopamine taking a heavy dopamine-releasor. This seems particularly true if the person in question has neglected to take in proper nutrition and/or neglected to get adequate sleep, but make no mistake about it – dopaminergic/serotonergic stimulants are what cause this state. I’ve seen it triggered from methamphetamine, MDA, and MDMA, separately.

The thing with Desoxyn is that you’d be taking a relatively small dose via oral ingestion. This is a lot different experientially compared to other routes of administration, particularly those that lend themselves to large doses and continual re-dosing without much regard for being reasonable and sensible. When taken orally, small doses of Desoxyn (say, 20 - 60 mg) is almost indistinguishable from instant release Adderall to most people. The increased serotonin affinity does make a difference though, and in large doses, it makes all the difference, rendering a dose like 250 mg of methamphetamine as being pretty highly euphoric and inebriating. A dose of 250 mg Adderall would feel like skin-crawly, senselessly nervous and riddled with anxiety… and a desire to come down stat…