PCP and bladder damage

[cdin]

hey, I was wondering if anyone had encountered anything in literature about PCP and bladder damage. We all know that ket and it's analogues produce fibrotic bladder scarring, but what about dust? Ketamine is an anologue of PCP to begin with, so I would expect the problem to bear out to it as well. Is there a master list of bladder damaging/safe NMDA antagonists?

safe:
ibogaine
memantine
DXM
agmatine

not:
ketamine
MXE
x-MEO-PCP
?PCP

what about the new ones? id love it if anyone could add to this list.

 

[WSH]

tell me the new ones

 

[cdin]

oh man, there's a whole slew. DPx, 2-Ocx series, there's whole bunches of new RC dissociatives out right now, although from what I understand most are ketamine anologues - im not that well versed, that's why I was asking

 

[cdin]

hey - this is more pertinent now, because I scored some dust - and my bladder is damaged from ketamine. So, does anyone know if the cystitic effects carry back to PCP itself? help greatly appreciated, don't want to end up catheterized for life.

 

[Solipsis]

How do you know x-MeO-PCP compounds do that to the bladder?

 

[cdin]

http://shadowdb.net/blog/view/17781/3-meo-pcmo , https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/PCP . which are not sourced as thoroughly as i would like.

 

[sekio]

AFAIK, only ketamine and MXE are solidly documented in the medical literature as causing bladder damage, and both only at high doses in particularly predisposed individuals it seems. PCP I have never read of as causing bladder/urinary issues. I do recall that it's re-absorbed through the bladder wall from alkaline/neutral urine, but whether or not this damages it, I don't know. The presence of bladder/PCP studies and lack of any obvious warning against urinary tract damage leads me to suggest that no, PCP doesn't exacerbate or cause bladder damage in the same way that ket does.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I had some 3meo pcp which made me have to piss every 20 minutes and made it hard to piss and strange pains in the bladder. threw it away.

3meo also burns like fuck when snorted...wonder if thats any indication of what it does to the bladder.

never had problems with mxe and used it way more

 

[Solipsis]

@ cdin and links: Disregarding the anecdotal nature of the evidence - I do still appreciate it - even if something like 3-MeO-PCMo is comparable in this sense to 3-MeO-PCP, the dosage of nearly two orders of magnitude higher of the morpholine may be the key here. Again anecdotal, evidence from a physician described the trend of bladder toxicity to be dose-dependent. There is for ketamine a safe range, a symptom reinforcing range and a symtom causing range apparently. Which if true should be a principle universal to all the ACHA caused bladder toxicity.

I have had bladder issues from chronic ketamine use, MXE probably wasn't too different, but with 3-MeO-PCP never noticed anything in that department.

 

[cdin]

no no, i have some ACTUAL pcp. i need to know about the risks of that for bladder harm, not 3-meo

 

[sekio]

3-MeO-PCP is quite similar in terms of binding/potency/effects to "real" PCP.

 

[cdin]

ah, gotcha. Well. having sampled that I certainly felt the effects of it in my bladder. I guess I have to accept the sad fact that all the fun dissociatives but DXM are off limits. I still have to get up 1 - 3 times a night to pee and consider myself lucky I stopped when I did and that my life hasn't been more heavily impacted than it was. Thanks for the replies, I would have smoked that dipstick and might have ended up in ICU getting a brand new catheter this weekend. harm reduction in action - feel free to close thread. (unless you know about fun new DXM analogues ;0)

 

[d1nach]

Don't ask me how I know this but if you hypothetically press on the nerves that are on the roof of the anal canal. You can cause involuntary emptying of your bladder.

 

[Solipsis]

The main problem with 'sherming' seems that you're just basically eyeballing the dose by trial and error, so I wouldn't do that regardless of any bladder. But with measured dosing, esp led up from titration, I don't see why a limited dose such as under 10 mg 3-MeO-PCP equivalent would land you in the ICU or cathetered. Under normal circumstances at least. If you already have a condition, then yeah maybe it's better to just call it a day. I know I can't afford to get hooked on K anymore or anything like that, but more generally (though the physical side in general is important). Fortunately I can use 3-MeO-PCP with quite good restraint so I feel I can afford to fine, it's very different though, not so anaesthetic.
I'm not too keen on even slightly lingering cognitive impairment these days though, really makes it not quite so worth it.

 

[cdin]

i did a gram of k semi-daily for almost a decade. I have to piss 1 - 4 times a night, bladder often fills at 2 - 3 hour mark. No elasticity, immediately have to void upon being filled... all this points strongly to scar tissue in my bladder. I never paid it much mind until I spent four months after my last (15mg) dose of mxe getting up 4 times a night. I almost lost my mind, I understand now why old people are so fucking grumpy. Never getting REM sleep ruins you. I was a die hard dissociative addict, and have managed not to touch em for the last year. Not willing to go catheter route (obviously if avoidable).. Man I wish pcp got a clear health bill. it's my favorite by far and I never noticed the "bladder infection" feeling i get from k/mxe abuse. but the power/fat solubility make me particularly hesitant, because if it DOES have negative effects it will stick around for a while, and last a long time initially. If anyone has any first hand experience, do chime in.

 

[Solipsis]

Depends on which negative effects you're talking about, if it's the bladder then it's a blessing if it takes a loong time to clear the body as the concentrations in your bladder will be even lower, if you can get below critical thresholds then the longer time shouldn't change anything about that. But understand that I'm not suggesting you take either PCP or 3-MeO-PCP. Actually an ex K-addict / disso head should probably stay away from dissociatives. I know it's difficult to stay away (had issues with various things myself, but have been able to come off them reasonably quickly - although after becoming well dependent though), but you've managed for a year now which is a great thing.

Go for things instead that may not be what you really fantasize most about, but that are doable in terms of cost/risk etc. In my case, that helps me avoid the heavier stuff.

I've worried about the bladder thing before and was surprised that they don't implant artificial ones regularly. [Oh hey i see they do that]

 

[cdin]

yeah, it hasn't really been tough. I love LOVE dissos, but surgery etc is too steep a price to pay for living in a philip k dick novel. Plus, my relationships have gained greatly from not being a drooling ktard

was laughing to myself the other day when I saw a friend in portland has started a new band he calls "regretamine" I also have a nice huge forehead scar from taking a face plant into a thick highball glass. thx k )