Treatment Questions about Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone

[Mycophile]

Mods: I hope it's ok that I reposted this thread again from other drugs because I thought I might get more responses here since I'm not getting many and maybe on the treatment end of things people will know more about this, so I hope it's not a problem.

It's a long post, but I would really like any answers if anyone has them.

So, my favorite drugs are Kratom and booze, and to a lesser extent I sometimes like Dexadrine when it doesn't make me too anxious (generally only with Kratom, but I think I should probably quit it) and like many addicts I'm the kind of guy who wants to have my cake and eat it too, cause I certainly don't want to quit drugs forever, especially not Kratom, but I know that I need to have a good long period of sobriety at least to figure some shit out and that I can't be as productive in life as I want when I am using as many drugs and drinking as much as I am.

So I'm working with a really cool drug counselor/social worker, and he's really the type of guy who would probably post on this forum: former drug user and isn't trying to shove sobriety down anyone's throat, and he knows a psychopharmacologist who prescribes Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone, and I'm kind of interested in it from some different things I've heard, mainly that it can stop you from drinking or using opioids the next day and help you resist urges if you take it at night, and that POSSIBLY unlike regular higher dose Naltrexone SOME PEOPLE say it can work as an antidepressant and increases production of endorphins and can kind of give you a runner's high.

So I'm kind of interested in trying it cause I have bad self control, and lots of times I want to NOT want to use drugs/drink, but I still do want to, so I do, and I kind of like the idea of something that can either make you not want to use a drug at best, or at the very worst it just stops you if you swallow the pill cause it blocks those mechanisms somehow, BUT...it's not something permanent and if you stop taking it you can still enjoy drugs and booze again.

So, here are my questions:

I am pretty sure with alcohol I have heard that you can just skip a day and then drink the next, but that if you don't you get sick, so I wouldn't try to drink after taking it, but:

1) does anyone know if it's true it would block Kratom from working just like it blocks other opioids from working?

I know Kratom is atypical, but it's still an opioid, so supposedly it would block it.

BUT...

2) Then if I skip a day, can I take Kratom again and will I still get high off of it without it being blocked, just like you can still drink the next day if you don't take it, or would I have to wait more days without taking the Naltrexone before I could take Kratom again?


I know that you can't start taking Naltrexone until you are DEFINITELY no longer physically dependent on an opioid or it will put you into immediate withdrawals, and so I'm gonna work on not being physically dependent on Kratom anymore (usually I can get over all the withdrawals within 3-5 days)....but probably the biggest question of all that I have is:

3) Lets say I'm off Kratom and taking Naltrexone, but then I skip a day or two of Naltrexone to use Kratom, how many days after I use Kratom do I have to wait to use Naltrexone again before it's safe, assuming that I was NOT dependent on the Kratom when I took it, and it was just one day of use?

I mean, using Kratom for only 1 day, even if I dose 3 times will not cause me to get withdrawals, so I'd kind of think that if you aren't in withdrawal from an opioid then you could safely take Naltrexone, but I could be wrong.

4) When I looked this up all I could find was someone on here saying that when taking typical opioids like Heroin and Oxy that you have to wait 7-10 days after using before you can safely use Naltrexone again, but is this also true for Kratom, and do you think even a good psychopharamacologist would know the answer to this question, considering how little most people know about Kratom (I bet she's never heard of it) and how many different alkaloids it has?

5) And if no one knows the answer, does anyone have any guess as to how long you might have to go without Kratom (assuming of course you are NOT in withdrawal or dependent in any way that is noticeable) before you can take Naltrexone again?


6) I have heard people say that Naltrexone can lower one's tolerance to opioids, and I wouldn't mind that at all, as my Kratom tolerance is too high. Does anyone know if this is true, and do you guys think it would make Kratom more or less effective if I used Naltrexone for a while and then used Kratom?

Like, I don't want Naltrexone messing with my receptors in some way that it is like NEVER possible to effectively get a buzz off Kratom again, but I have actually heard the opposite, that when NOT using Naltrexone to block opioids, it usually does lower tolerance to the drug, so is this true?

7) Has anyone here ever used Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone, and if so, did it reduce your urges to use opioids and drink?

And finally: 8 Does anyone know if it's really true that when using LOW DOSE Naltrexone as opposed to high doses, that it can work as an antidepressant and increase endorphins?

I read a whole article which says that it can do that, but that higher dose naltrexone does not.


Sorry for typing so much.

I guess it's weird I want to try it to get sober for a while but still want to know it won't 100% stop me if I stop using it and ever want to use Kratom again.

I guess it would just be a great tool to have in my toolbox if I could use it to reduce my use of drugs and drinking, but then still stop for a while if I want to enjoy myself again, before going back to it.


Thanks

 

[Mycophile]

Well, I just found this post on Reddit where a guy actually uses ULDN WITH his Kratom and it seems to intensify the high and lower tolerance while preventing dependence which all sounds incredible.

The only thing that seems odd is that it wouldn't BLOCK the effects of Kratom, and if it doesn't then I don't know if it wouldn't entirely serve the purposes I want, is sometimes Kratom use can be a problem for me, which is PART of the reason I'm interested in it, but then again, if it actually prevents withdrawal and lowers tolerance and negative symptoms then there almost might be no reason not to use it with Kratom instead of to prevent me from using Kratom, though that almost sounds too good to be true.

 

[Mycophile]

More interesting info.

Seems it could be good to mix with Kratom, though people are probably confused about why I would want to use it, being on the fence between not wanting to totally quit Kratom and have help with my drinking and reduce my dependence on Kratom are all reasons.

I'm surprised more people don't use it if it works so well:

 

[Meth novice 79]

Kratom has a half life of 4 to 8 hours depending on the strain I just read.
And everyone reported that they went right into withdrawal if they tried to use both within 24 hours.

I used naxeltrone to kick a drinking problem and mistakenly took it before fully allowing the effects of the alcohol to wear off.
Oh. My. God.
I’ve never vomited so much in my life, it was like an 18 hour hang over that just seemed to get worse and worse.

I wouldn’t touch anything else on Naxeltrone.

 

[Mycophile]

Kratom has a half life of 4 to 8 hours depending on the strain I just read.
And everyone reported that they went right into withdrawal if they tried to use both within 24 hours.

I used naxeltrone to kick a drinking problem and mistakenly took it before fully allowing the effects of the alcohol to wear off.
Oh. My. God.
I’ve never vomited so much in my life, it was like an 18 hour hang over that just seemed to get worse and worse.

I wouldn’t touch anything else on Naxeltrone.

Ok, but are you talking about REGULAR dose, (which is the same as HIGH dose) Naltrexone, or low or ultra low dose?

I STRONGLY assume you are talking about high dose because it is what most doctors prescribe and it was what is more well known, but it behaves VERY differently from Ultra Low dose, almost like 2 different drugs.

Who is ''everyone that you talked to'' regarding going into kratom wd if they used it within 24 hours''?

I'm just wondering if these are people on here or whatever, and whether or not they have ever tried Kratom w/ ULDN.

Of course that makes sense as HIGH dose Naltrexone does typically do that with all opioids and alcohol, and while Kratom is a bit atypical it is still an opioid.

I'm actually glad that that is true for REGULAR dose Naltrexone cause I am interested in both high and lose dose for different reasons; I'm interested in high dose to COMPLETELY stop me from using both Kratom and alcohol like you mentioned, but I'm interested in ultra low dose both because i have heard it has anti depressant effects which high dose does NOT have, and also because of what I have just heard is SUPPOSEDLY true according to some people on Reddit, who actually claim they not only CAN use Kratom while on Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone, but that it both potentiates it AND lowers tolerance and gets rid of the majority of side effects and, according to a few people, even makes it LESS addictive.

I had never heard that before, but according to these people on reddit they take ULDN with their kratom and that it lowers their tolerance by like 4 times and makes it so that they actually get VERY few withdrawal effects from Kratom even if they totally stop taking their Kratom but continue to take the naltrexone.

I find that almost too good to be true, but according to those people it has been true for them.

I mean, it kind of does make some sense to an extent seeing as from what i have read Naltrexone in general SIGNIFICANTLY lowers one's opioid tolerance with most opoids, and of course with lower doses comes fewer side effects and lower level of dependency, but i find it hard to believe that if really addicted that one could just skip their kratom doses and take ULDN and get few if any WD symptoms, but at least according to the few reports i have read it's true.

So i would want to take regular dose Naltrexone at first just to help me achieve COMPLETE sobriety from alcohol, Kratom and everything else (the only other drug i use regularly now is Dexadrine) for AT LEAST a full month is my plan...really hopefully a few months....and then if those reports are really true I'd be interested in using ultra low dose only on occasion WITH kratom and seeing if it really can keep me from being dependent and potentiate it and SOMEHOW allow me to have my cake and eat it too, which sounds a bit too good to be true, but who knows.

Just the reports of ULDN supposedly working in SOME cases as an antidepressant by raising endorphins sounds promising, but it seems to me that most people really don't know much about low dose vs high dose and that it isn't prescribed as often.

Yet one thing which IS apparently true is that sometime around 2009 a drug company was actually manufacturing pills that were a combination of ultra low dose naltrexone with some kind of opiate, I think oxycodone or hydrocodone, for pain patients.

According to what i read, the combo was very effective for lowering tolerance for pain patients who's medication had become less effective due to tolerance increase, and really worked to get their meds to be effective again, so if that worked for other opiates it should work for kratom.

I don't understand why it seems to be less understood than high dose naltrexone, but i am very interested in trying it.

I just made a call to a psychopharmacologist who my drug counselor suggested who he thinks MIGHT be willing to prescribe it, so hopefully i can try it out. If it works I'll let people here know.

 

[Meth novice 79]

I wouldn’t have a clue what dose I was on, a doctor gave it to me when my boss dragged me into a local clinic to get help as I’d turned up to work (at 9am) still blind drunk from the night before lol

I don’t even have the box around now to refer to sorry. It was 3 years ago, I used it for 3 months and stayed sober the longest I ever have before. 2.5 years.

I just did a quick google search on the Kratom/naxalone and I think most my info came from the product review section of a medication site re naxalone use.

 

[Mycophile]

I wouldn’t have a clue what dose I was on, a doctor gave it to me when my boss dragged me into a local clinic to get help as I’d turned up to work (at 9am) still blind drunk from the night before lol

I don’t even have the box around now to refer to sorry. It was 3 years ago, I used it for 3 months and stayed sober the longest I ever have before. 2.5 years.

I just did a quick google search on the Kratom/naxalone and I think most my info came from the product review section of a medication site re naxalone use.

First off, naloxone and naltrexone are 2 entirely different drugs.

Naloxone is Narcan which is used to revive people from opiate overdoses and is entirely different.

But I can almost guarantee you were on high dose naltrexone because that is what is normally prescribed and ultra low dose naltrexone usually does not do that.

 

[copium7777]

So much misinformation about uLDN and ldn in this post.

1) does anyone know if it's true it would block Kratom from working just like it blocks other opioids from working?

It doesn't block kratom or other opioids from working. Regular doses of naltrexone do. It's possible but still unlikely that Low Dose Naltrexone would. But ultra low dose naltrexone almost certainly wouldn't.

Both from the literature and my own experience, I can tell you that if anything , ultra low dose naltrexone enhances opioid analgesia and reduces side effects , without anywhere close to taking away all of the effects. I have posted about this with references in my post history but I have also taken both ultra low dose and low dose naltrexone along with opioids many, many times. In theory the slightly higher dose range of LDN as opposed to ULDN could block effects of opioids, or precipitate withdrawals, but I have taken up to 1 mg of naltrexone alongside opioids without blocking the effects--slmetimes it takes a slight edge off the euphoria but nothing close to blocking all the effects.

2) Then if I skip a day, can I take Kratom again and will I still get high off of it without it being blocked, just like you can still drink the next day if you don't take it, or would I have to wait more days without taking the Naltrexone before I could take Kratom again?

Lol. This isn't even a consideration with uldn bc u can take it at the same exact time you take your opioid/kratom dose! In fact there was a pill supposed to come on the market called oxytrex that had a combo of uldn and oxy in one pill. Again, it will enhance analgesia , not block all the effects like full dose naltrexone would.

I know that you can't start taking Naltrexone until you are DEFINITELY no longer physically dependent on an opioid or it will put you into immediate withdrawals, and so I'm gonna work on not being physically dependent on Kratom anymore (usually I can get over all the withdrawals within 3-5 days)....but probably the biggest question of all that I have is:

Again, this doesn't apply to ultra low dose naltrexone, both based on literature and my experience and others anecdotes, I haven't heard of it precipitating withdrawal ever ! Not once. People start with ultra low dose naltrexone and work their way up to low dose naltrexone while on opioids all the time, or on kratom.