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Quitting high dose Kratom habit via taper

Jshock1313

Greenlighter
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Louisville, KY
I also meant to mention I've been vaping CBD. It's legal here in KY not sure about where you are. Cannabis really helped but I've got a really good sales job that does randoms so I decided I couldn't do it. I'm a big believer in it though. I should be able to pass a test with CBD. I have some shoulder pain before kratom and withdrawals just made it worse. I feel like the CBD helped with it. Took about 3 days to notice it though. A big problem for me is the habit of actually taking the kratom. So I've been replacing times where I would normally dose kratom with CBD vape. It's kind of relaxing and helps me not focus on counting the minutes lol the vitamin c has kind of been doing it too. It may sound crazy but having something small to eat (vitamin C) kind of satisfies me where I would normally toss and wash my kratom.
 

Scrillion

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
So glad to hear your so close and the Vit c is helping!! I took 10 grams of c after I got up today and I feel a lot better than when I first woke up. A lot better. I live in CO and am very familiar with CBD. It?s great for anxiety. Keep up the good work!! I?ll post again soon. ??
 

Jshock1313

Greenlighter
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Louisville, KY
I wish I lived in CO haha! Yesterday was my first day down to 8g total for the day. Today I'm on track to hit it again. 3g in the morning when I wake up at 5am from sweats, 2g at 2:30pm, and 3g at 6:30pm. I felt a little off when I woke up, but I'm used to that by now lol I was sweating by my 2:30pm dose, but anxiety was very mild. Day two after lowering is always the worse for me, but by day 3 I'm usually much better. Even on second day it's not as bad as when I was above 14g a day. Glad to hear the vitamin C has been working for you. I've been taking 4-5 grams of it every two or three hours. Do you think I should take vitamin C up to 10g on doses? Or maybe even just on 1st dose of vitamin C in the morning and then keep it at 3-5 grams every two or three hours? I'm wondering if kratom will cause PAWS. I've read some people say it's unlikely, but there have been some cases. I'm hoping it doesn't happen to me, and if it does maybe vitamin C will help with that too. I've been researching some PAWS supplements. Any thoughts on this?
 

Scrillion

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
I take a large dose of c in the morning when I get up (~10g) then do smaller 4-5g doses every couple hours. Seems to work well. Apparently Vit c does not build up in the body and excess is eliminated via urine fairly quick so by the time you get up in the morning it?s pretty much gone from your system. That?s why I take a large dose in the morning. I?ve noticed that if I start the day off with a smaller dose around 4 or 5 grams I don?t get the relief until I redose another 4-5 grams. As far as PAWS, my experience has been that they do exist with Kratom but they?re very mild. It was mild enough that I was able to function just fine. I?m sure the severity of PAWS does have a little to do with how long you?ve been taking it and how much. I do expect to feel the PAWS for at least a week or two, but I don?t expect it to be too terrible.
 
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Jshock1313

Greenlighter
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Louisville, KY
I've read that about vitamin C leaving the system pretty quickly too. I think I'll start with the large dose like that in the morning and see how it goes. I've been using kratom for a little over 2 years and the majority of the time I was taking at least 28g a day. I'm hoping my break at the end of last year will help it not be so bad if I do get PAWS. Also hoping that the vitamin C helps with it. Thankfully I didn't have any mental conditions such as depression or anxiety before kratom, so I'm hoping that will help too. How have things been going for you? Have you been able to hold up at the house?
 

Duggins

Greenlighter
Joined
Feb 2, 2018
Messages
2
I actually put the Kratom through the coffee maker with maybe 10 or more filters, it is easier to piss it out than crap it out.
 

Scrillion

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
Yeah, been holing up for the most part. I had to take my wife to the airport today and spent some time with her yesterday, not at my families home. But I have no money as my family has my wallet, and I?m broke anyway. So I don?t have the means to acquire more without stealing, which I?ve never really done and don?t think it?s something I would do. But I don?t trust this disease so I do consider it a possibility if I?m not vigilant. Last couple days have been a little rough with the withdrawals, but overall it?s been much less painful than in the past. I think part of that is the vitamin c and part is that I haven?t been using consistently for as long as previous attempts. So feeling very encouraged. Hardest part is physically just not much appetite and some restlessness. Mentally I?ve had some depression and anxiety, but nothing I can?t handle. I?d say overall it?s going really well. Not nearly as painful as I anticipated. I?m sure I was building it up in my head as something so much more terrible than it has actually been so far. I?m hoping I?m through the acutes for the most part by Tuesday, when my wife gets back in town. Keep up the good work everyone!!! We have a good little group here and sounds like there?s progress being made. If you?re struggling just try to remember that feeling good is just on the other side and bouts of cravings and depression and anxiety often dissipate at least somewhat in 30 min - 1 hour. Then they get a little better for a while. At least that?s been my experience. Stay strong and keep posting!! I?ll do the same.
 

LopLover

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
Messages
165
Location
the beautiful Pacific NW
But I need a comfort med to get off the comfort med. lol.

Sometimes that's the case. I tried using kratom to finish off a suboxone taper. I was down to a super-low dose of sub, about 1/2 mg a week broken up into every other day, when I hit a wall. Went into severe w/d that never seemed to end. I went cold-turkey for about 3 weeks and the withdrawals hadn't eased up at all, so I ordered some kratom, since it's short-acting, unlike Sub, to try to finish. What happened was that the kratom did a great job on some symptoms and nothing for others, and eventually I went back on Sub, but still at a low dose, this time 1mg weekly divided up into every other day. But the kratom had potentiated my habit, I think, and now I can't go the full two days without needing something in the meantime. So I have a double habit, albeit at a very low dose of both. Since my doctor, who has retired, said he'd keep me on for longer as a private pay, and I can stay on the Sub, I'm trying to stop taking the kratom altogether, but I'm still taking a little on that second day. I don't know the dosage of the caps I get, but I usually take two when I get symptoms, which lasts 8-12 hours, then I take another two the second night as well, and the next day I got back to Sub. One thing I've really noticed is that the Sub gives me some energy and gets me out of bed and functioning, where the kratom doesn't. It makes my legs stop shaking, makes me stop yawning and my nose stop running, but I could lie in bed all day and do nothing. Part of my issue may be that I've been on one opiate or another for virtually all of my adult life, and the Suboxone for about the last ten years. On top of that I have many other life-challenging health problems that are affected when I go into w/d: end-stage cirrhosis, severe COPD with oxygen dependency 24/7, and a spinal deformity that keeps me from standing up straight that I'd have surgery on if my lungs could tolerate the anesthesia. I think that's why doctors aren't that concerned about whether I remain on Sub indefinitely; it's probably only going to be a few years at the most. That's what I told them, that with the limited amount of "quality time" I had left, I didn't want to spend months suffering from withdrawal symptoms. If it were only a dependency on something short-term, where I could kick and be done with it in a few days, I'd be all for it, but not when it just goes on and on and on...
 

Jshock1313

Greenlighter
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Louisville, KY
That's awesome you've been doing so well Scrillion! I'm excited for you!! I know what you mean by not trusting the disease. I've done a lot of stuff I'm not proud of because of it. I'm glad to hear going cold turkey hasn't been too terribly difficult! Now that I'm down to 8g a day I've been considering making the jump to 0, but I'm really worrying myself over the withdrawals. Last time they got pretty bad for me. I wasn't doing the vitamin C though. How many grams of vitamin C are you taking and how often? I'd really like to make the jump and just be done with it now that I'm so low. I'd hope that would keep me from any potential slip ups. But I think if I did that and the withdrawals we're really bad, I'd be pretty likely to relapse and possibly do more than what I'm doing now. I definitely don't want that to happen. Are you taking any other supplements? I'm really interested to see how well this goes for you! It may give me just enough strength and hope to make the jump! How many days are you kratom free now? From the sounds of it you've already came pretty far! Just hang in there and you'll have this thing beat before you know it!!!
 

Totbot

Greenlighter
Joined
Jan 4, 2018
Messages
18
Go scrillion! Keep it up! So so happy for you. I knew you could do it. Its too late to turn back now! Please do something good for yourself... You deserve rewards. When you jumped how many grams were you taking a day?
 

Jshock1313

Greenlighter
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Louisville, KY
Just wanted to give an update. I've been running low on vitamin C the last two days and have been taking less. I believe I'm starting to realize how much it was helping me. My anxiety has increased a little over the last two days. This could also be because the percentage of my 1g lowering on kratom is increasing as my daily total amount consumed is less. Today is my first day at 6 total grams for the day. 2g in the morning, 1g at 4:30pm, and 3g at 6:30pm. I'm not sure what has caused the increase in anxiety, but I believe it's probably a mixture of both things and the majority of it being the lower dose of vitamin C. The anxiety is still tolerable and nothing major, but is worse. I'm still on track though!! Hope all is well your way Scrillion!
 

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
Messages
55,026
Location
Looking-Glass Land
Do you guys have any comfort meds to help you with this process? The right dose of gabapentin makes a huge fucking difference coming off kratom, though the mental instability can be a bit rough.
 

Jshock1313

Greenlighter
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Louisville, KY
I'm not using any at the moment. I'm very reluctant to take any comfort meds due to my addictive personality. I seriously get addicted and take everything waaaaay over recommended amounts. However, I had considered taking Phenibut towards the end of my taper to help since I'm expecting withdrawals to be worse closer to day 0 grams. But after much research I'm pretty sure I'm not going to. It seems to be addictive on its own and be accompanied by it's own terrible withdrawals. My biggest concern is trading one addiction for another, as this is what I have done EVERYTIME in the past. I'm really motivated to be sober for the first time in over a decade lol
 

Jabberwocky

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Messages
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Looking-Glass Land
You sound like you'd be better off finding a doctor/psychiatrist to give you gabapentin and sleep meds to help you off the kratom than going the phenibut route. I mean, it would be better than nothing, but it sounds like you'd benefit by having some clinically oriented support.

Have you ever had issues with alcohol, benzos, GHB/L, or other gabaergic stuff?

If you haven't you shouldn't have to worry to much about using something like phenibut (gabapentin has even less issues), although it's still good to be aware of the possibility of dependency and structuring your dosing accordingly. If you have struggled with gabaergic dependence in the past, you'll want to be especially careful with phenibut.
 

Jshock1313

Greenlighter
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Louisville, KY
Yea I've definitely had problems with alcohol. To the tune of 8-15 drinks a day and drinking everyday. I was prescribed gabapentin at one point and slightly abused it. I say sightly because thankfully it didn't turn into a habit that lasted for longer than a few weeks because I swear at one point while using it caused my brain to glitch up. I'm not sure how to describe it lol but ironically it also didn't become a habit for too long because I allowed myself to go down the road of cocaine abuse... again... Thankfully kratom was able to help me break a lot of my other addictions, but of course turned into it's own addiction that quickly spiraled out of control. Needless to say, I literally get addicted to any mood alerting drug and am trying to avoid them now. The only thing the I have seriously considered is the Phenibut to help with withdrawals. I'm leaning towards the side of not doing it, but depending on how bad it gets may consider it as an option. What are your thoughts on it for my situation?
 

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
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Messages
55,026
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Looking-Glass Land
Well, the safest bet would be having someone else help you dose, so you can’t take it whenever you want or at whatever dose you want. Enlisting the help of a supportive and trusted friend is definitely worth considering.

How long do you imagine you’d be planning to use phenibut?

Frankly I still think you’d be better off working with a doctor, but hey gotta work with what you got.
 

Jshock1313

Greenlighter
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Louisville, KY
Yea, having a support person would definitely help. My wife would be perfect for that. If I decide to use the Phenibut, I would probably use daily for at least a week to ensure all/most withdrawals symptoms were gone. At least the bad ones anyway lol
 

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
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Nov 3, 1999
Messages
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Looking-Glass Land
That should be fine, although you might want to plan on taking it for more like 2 weeks (kratom withdrawal is weird, but with your taper it shouldn't be too bad at all). And having your wife hold on to it and dose you, after working out a schedule for her to do so prior to beginning the kick, is a very wise idea.

I wish I could have done that when I was getting ready to get off kratom (tapering the kratom with someone else helping I mean). That kind of thing always makes it a lot easier for me. Yay for supportive loved ones!
 

Jshock1313

Greenlighter
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Louisville, KY
Yea she's definitely helped me a ton. Major props to her, for real. Especially being the saint she is lol she's never even smoked a cig. I got her to try weed one time, but other than that she's been smart enough to stay away from everything. I don't think she really has an addiction issue though. I wonder if I'd get withdrawals from the Phenibut for two weeks of use? I've read some posts that say even three days in a row can cause them and others say they've never had them even after prolonged use. I guess it's up to each person's body. My luck I'd get them lol I'm hoping since this taper will be something that will have taken about two months to do, my jump to 0g won't be bad. But coming from a 2+yr habit of at least 28g a day, I am a little worried. It has been a little tougher now that the doses are getting so low. I'm proud of how well I've been doing with keeping to the schedule, but it's crazy how I can still experience withdrawals only 12 hours after my last dose even though I'm only doing 6g a day now. I suppose I should be happy though, it used to only take 2-3 hours before they kicked in and they were much worse. I'm seriously considering the Phenibut now, but REALLY don't want to trade one addiction for another... I've never tried it. If there isn't much of a high from it, I think I'll be okay. But I've read some posts that say it can be pretty euphoric which could cause some issues. I know myself well enough to know that if I like the high, I'll find a way to abuse it lol
 
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