• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

Quitting high dose Kratom habit via taper

Second day at 5g total for the day. Currently doing 2g at 5:00am, 1g at 4:30pm, and 2g at 6:30pm. It's been a little rough over the last 4-5 days, but nothing terrible. Finally got some more vitamin C and started back on it today, hoping that continues to work great. I'm also considering getting some Kava and possibly agmatine. I've heard Kava can be great for the anxiety and relaxation with low potential for abuse and dependance. I've read the agmatine would be good to help the kratom last longer between doses. Not sure on if I'll get it though. Has anyone had any luck or have any thoughts on these two?
Update, the vitamin C is already starting to help again! Definitely recommend! I'm at about 30 grams a day for the vitamin C. Second day at 5g total on kratom was actually better than the 1st day at this dose and I think it's because the vitamin C. I'd love to hear from you Scrillion. I hope everything has been going good your way and you've been able to stick to your plan. You got this!!
Scrillion i hooe you are well. I know how ugly the disease of addiction is. Its mostly uncontrollable. There is often a ton of shame that goes hand in hand with it but no one need be ashamed if they cannot quit an addiction single handedly. We could litterally go the rest of our lives in this cycle of trying to quit. The point of surrender comes at different times for each of us if it comes at all. My point is if anyone cannot quit i pray that you can fight the shame and get to a detox facility and or treatment center or some other highly controlled environment. There is an overwhelming flood of hope and relief when you go this route. There is always more help out there so please don't feel alone or hopeless. Everyone who is struggling please keep reaching out for help!
Hey everyone, sorry I was MIA for a while there. Shit got really really painful. To answer a question from a post a few back I was taking ~80 grams on most days, and that had been going on for the better part of 9 months. The C kinda stopped working very well and the withdrawals became fucking brutal. However I was determined to not go back on the shit or drink alcohol, which just makes the withdrawals a million times more painful for me. So I?ve made 2 trips to the ER in the last week, where they gave 1 dose of Ativan while I was at the ER (which was helpful) and some clonidine (which just seems to make me dizzy) and a few tablets of Tranxene which is a weak benzo that didn?t really do much. Finally on day 8 I was still in horrible withdrawal pain and made it into see a opiate detox Dr. I reluctantly started taking low dose Suboxone yesterday with a small 1 mg dose of Klonopin. I told the Dr I didn?t want to take the Suboxone for months or years and he assured me that we can start a taper right away and I?ll be off of it and done with the Kratom withdrawals at the end of 30 days. I know it sounds crazy to use Suboxone to get off of Kratom but I?ve tried over and over and over and over again for 6+ months to get through these withdrawals and have failed every time. This is my last hope. I?ve lost my marriage, my business, my home, and all I?m left with is damaged relationships with my family, who luckily still want to be helpful and are encouraging. Anyway, today is day 8 with no Kratom and day 2 on Suboxone. I feel fine. Not sick but not high. Just normal. My Dr is in recovery too (11 years) and used Suboxone to kick his opiate habit and I feel very comfortable working with him on this. Today was the first day in 9+ months that I didn?t wake up in withdrawal hell. I?m incredibky grateful for the relief. I see my new Sub Dr once a week for about a month and should be tapered down to zero in 28 days. I?m definiteky concerned and scared but it?s my last chance/option. I?m also very encouraged. I?m not high, I?m not in withdrawals, I just feel normal and like I can finally get back to my life. Thank god!!! My mom and I both cried tears of joys this morning when I told her it was the first morning in 9 months that I didn?t wake up in withdrawals. I believe in this because Kratom has s very short half life it?s notoriously hard to taper. Suboxone has a much longer half life which makes the taper easier. Plus it blocks the majority of the opiate receptor so even if I did fuck up and take Kratom it wouldn?t have any effects due to the blocking mechanism. This is exactly what I need!!! So if things go as planned I will not feel withdrawals ever again and I?ll be totally off everything in 28 days. What a crazy fucking nightmare!!! So grateful it?s finally winding up after 18 months of misery. ????????

Thanks to all of you for your tips, thoughts, encouragement, and experiences. Please keep us posted. I?ll do the same.
Scrillion! Yay! I once got off an 80 mg a day opiate habbit with one single dose of 8 mg sub but eventually got back on. Be very careful with that stuff as it is also an endorphin blocker so tapering will be emotionally painful. I was on a program for a year and got off but right back on opiates because i had no program of recovery. Stay in as many meetings and social get togethers as possible. I still have so much hope for you. There are infinate possibilities in this universe... Always. And always remember that. I have chanced strains and cut out a whole 9 gs the past couple days and have been pretty sick. Its not as bad as opiate wd but still bad enough to where i dont want to get out of bed. Which is crazy bad because im a mover and a shaker.... a working mother of three with a crawling 7 month old and a lazy unsupportive husband and two step kids so shit around the house goes downhill very fast when im going thru. Ive thought about getting a sub but i have vowed never to take that stuff again. Im still waiting on my order of sodium ascorbate and am hopeful that will help. As ive only been on kratom for about 4 months but 30+ grams a day. Im ready. I want so much more for my life and have lots of work to do. First things first... Get off drugs. I have black seed oil so when i cut my two doses down to 5 g each ill be using that until tuesday when i jump with vit . Idk if this is allowed here but theres a lot of really awesome info on meditation and quantum physics and a book about us being the placebo.. Just Google search it and youll get the title. I dont want to break any rules here. This book and others by the same author have changed my outlook on life. I highly recommend. Anyway Scrillion... I am proud of you. Just stay extra close to the real solution. Im so happy you updated ive been thinking of you and praying each time you've crossed my mind.
Sounds like you have a solid plan!! That is definitely key!! Stick with it. You got this and I?ve got your back 1,000%!!! Yes, the Suboxone was something I avoided for a long time but I?ve come to terms that what I was doing just wasn?t working. I was taking 80+ grams of Kratom a day for the better part of 9 months and my physical dependency was very very severe and serious. The FDA finally issued a statement about a week ago declaring that Kratom is indeed an opiate and should be treated like one. I?m already beginning to taper down the Suboxone per the schedule my Dr and I put together. Only been on it 2 days so far. The last thing I want is to be on Suboxone for months or years, so this 4 week taper is the plan. As I assume it?s the standard with most Sub Drs, he prescribes me just enough to follow my taper schedule for 7 days, then I see him once a week where he gives me the script for just the next 7 days of the taper schedule. He says he?s had several patients have great success doing it this way for Kratom. So far it?s only been 2 1/2 days but I feel great. Not high at all, not in withdrawals at all. So I?m very very encouraged and hopeful. Yesterday and today I got out of bed after a good 8 hour sleep from the previous night and I actually felt good and WANTED to get up. That?s the first time in 9 months I?ve felt decent enough in the morning that I was looking forward to getting out of bed. Meeting with my sponsor this weekend, going to meetings everyday, seeing my psych Dr and my therapist next week. All around doing my best to tackle this fucking disease and get my life back. For the first time in a year or more I feel like it?s working. I?ve got some serious momentum and I?m running with it. Excersize and meditation are on the agenda as well. Keep getting after it Totbot!!! You?ve got a good plan and I fully believe it will work for you. Happy for you and for what the future holds for you!! It?s gonna be great and you deserve it!! ??????????
Jshock1313 and Totbot and anyone else struggling to get clean, I just wanted to offer you guys some words of encouragement. You both seem to have solid plans for your individual situations and I?m proud of ya for taking the time, effort, and thought to work so hard on your recovery and getting well. I commend you for your efforts. Staying in daily contact with my recovery buddies lately has been incredibly helpful and inspiring. I highly recommend being in touch with other recovering addicts and/or alcoholics every day. Going to daily 12 step meetings has been HUGE for me as well. I honestly don?t know if I?d have made it this far (10 days) without being involved in my recovery program. My new friends in the program have given me soooo much encouragement and support during these last few months, and especially the last few weeks. I?m meeting with my sponsor to work on step work tomorrow morning. The Suboxone is doing the trick too. I?m already tapering down the Sub daily dosage and see my Sub Dr on Thursday. As I mentioned in my previous post my Sub Dr is in recovery himself (11+ years) and is the first Dr I?ve ever asked for help with this disease that didn?t treat me like a degenerate criminal. It?s sooo great to be understood by someone who has the means and intent to help me get healthy. My spirits are the best they?ve been in at least 18 months. I?m still dealing with some very sad, stressful, and hard shit but my hope for the future has been restored almost entirely. For anyone out there hurting and/or loosing hope don?t give up!! Things can get better and I will do anything I can to be helpful to others struggling. I still have a ways to go but I know I?m well on my way to health and happiness now. I also know that I didn?t get here without a lot of help from a lot of very kind people and I?d love the opportunity to start giving back by helping others in any way I can. Please let me know how I can help, answer questions, share my experiences, or whatever else I can do to be helpful. It?s the least I can do after all the support, encouragement, advice, tips, etc that I?ve received from all you wonderful people. Much love and respect to all struggling or trying to help others. Stay strong and positive everyone. Health, sobriety, and happiness can happen for all of us with hard work, willingness, and open mindedness. ?????????
Good to hear from you Scrillion! I'm happy that you've gotten yourself in a program that seems to be working for you! I know that you can beat this! Obviously you're a strong person willing to do whatever it takes to get clean, and I know with certainty, that if you continue to put in the hardwork like you have been, you'll be there in no time! Today is day three on my taper schedule at 2g total for the day. Tomorrow I'll drop to 1g total. I'm currently taking two 1g doses. One in the morning and one and night. Tomorrow I'm not sure if I'll move down to one 1g dose at night, or if I'll have two .5g doses. I guess I'll play it by ear and see how I feel when I wake up. I've ordered some high quality Kava that should be here just in time for my jump to 0. I still haven't made it a day without using any kratom like you have, but I feel like I'm really close! From my research online it seems as if Kava will be a great tool for my first day with no kratom. Everything seems to point towards it being non-addictive, so I'm hoping that's the case. I'm going to make sure to be really careful with it regardless. It definitely seems safer than going the Phenibut route from my research. Does anyone have any experience with Kava, or have any advice about it? I'm both nervous and excited for day 0 to get here. I'm so close to sobriety I can taste it! I'm hoping my strict taper plan will keep me from having any real serious issues when I go without it. The total taper plan will have lasted a little over a month, with 1g drops every four day (3 days at same dose then drop), and lowering my amount of time dosing throughout the day from 5 down to what is 2 now. Good luck to everyone! I know my prayers are with all of you! God has brought me this far, I'm sure that he will make sure I complete this! I know we all can do it with some hardwork and determination! You got this guys and girls!!! Keep fighting!
Great work on your taper!! If you?re not already having withdrawal symptoms at your current low daily doses I think your jump will be pretty easy. Maybe a couple days of some moderate uncomfortableness but I don?t think it will be much worse than that, if you even get that. I?ll be thinking about you. Please keep us posted. I wish I would have had the discipline to taper the way you have. I?ve messed with Kava quite a bit in the past. I personally hate the stuff. It affects gaba receptors but for me it wasn?t a very pleasant effect. It made me sick to my stomach too. My advice would be to just not take too much. At low doses it can give some anxiety relief, but higher doses is when it starts causing nausea. I don?t think it?s really addictive, though I?m sure anything is possible. I have a super addictive personality and it never caused me any sort of addictive behavior around it. Id absolutely stay very far away from Phenibut. That stuff causes physical dependency extremely fast and the withdrawals are hell on earth. They make Kratom withdrawals feel like a light headache comparably. Phenibut withdrawals are on par with benzo withdrawals. Extremely painful, dangerous, and scary. You?ve managed to taper to such a low dose of Kratom that I?d be willing to bet some vitamin c, maybe some amino acids (gaba, glutamine, tryptophan, glycine, DLPA), a couple alive or aspirin, and an over the counter sleep aid like doxylamine (not diphenhydramine), would be enough to get you through your withdrawal with very minimal pain. I think you?re in pretty damn good shape to get completely off and free from the crap with a great chance of success. Just be aware of cravings. They can be tough to get through, but there are things you can do to make it easier. First thing to do when a craving comes on string is to eat something. A little boost in blood sugar and a full stomach can really help ease cravings. Also, keep in mind that a lot of the time cravings will dissapate in about 20 minutes so if you can just ride it out for 30-30 minutes it could pass. I?d akso do something to distract yourself from it like reading a book, going for a walk, doing some house cleaning, watching a TV show, etc. Great work and best of luck! I?m rooting for you in a big way. You?re soooo close! You got this!!
Thanks for the support Scrillion! I'm honestly surprised I've been able to stick to the taper too lol I've never been able to do that before. The cravings are definitely going to be an obstacle, but I'm hoping I can handle them. I'm having some minor anxiety and just a general off feeling, but nothing too bad in the day. At night I have sweats and wake up off and on. Shoulder pains, and negative emotions in the morning are probably the worst of my withdrawals though. They are tolerable to though. And I have been sweating more throughout the day. For the most part, I believe my bad withdrawals are over though! Thanks for the advice on Phenibut, I've been told that several times, so I'll for sure be avoiding it. I'm hoping the Kava helps with cravings and sleep. I have very addictive tendencies as well. So I'm really hoping I'm not going to end up addicted to it. Everyone seems to say it's safe though. I think I'm going to be very careful with it in case though lol I really am glad to hear from you buddy! Please keep us posted. You've got this!!!
Great work Jshock! You?re doin it! Stay strong for this final push and you?ll be out of the woods. I highly suggest some sort of recovery program going forward. Once you?re off the shit you gotta stay vigilant against relapse. It?s a super sneaky thing. I?ve been through it more times than I can count when I was totally sober and feeling strong and it still got me over and over and over again. There?s AA, NA, therapy with a CAC 3 certified therapist, etc. At least one of those would be wise to get going ASAP. Thanks for your encouragement. I?ve been 100% Kratom free for 14 days, which is by far the longest I?ve gone in over 9 months. I see my Dr again tomorrow. Doing this 28 day Suboxone taper, which so far is working great. I?m terrified of trading Kratom for Suboxone, but I think this rapid taper is a good plan for me. One thing I really like about this method is that, unlike Kratom, I can?t just go out and buy Suboxone without a script. My Dr won?t give me more than my taper calls for and that makes me very very encouraged that I can?t fuck it up as easily as the straight Kratom. The Suboxone has a long half life so it?s been a million times easier to taper than the Kratom for me. Kratom has such a short half life. It made it really difficult for me to taper, especially since I could just go out and buy as much as I wanted. The Suboxone takes the cravings completely away and it blocks Kratom or other opiates from working too, so even if I did loose my cool and try to take Kratom it wouldn?t get me high. I feel totally normal on the Suboxone so far. Not high. No withdrawals. No cravings. It?s given me tremendous hope and I?m unbelievably grateful for this help. Anyway, keep it up and please keep us posted. I?ll do the same. You got this! We got this! ??
Yea I'm definitely looking for a local group! I just moved to a new city a few months ago and haven't had the chance to find one. I was going to a Celebrate Recovery group which I found was amazing. I think I'll be looking for another one of those for sure now. Yesterday was my first day at 1g total for the day. I did .5 in the morning and .5 at night. I tried some Kava for the first time yesterday, and I have to say, it definitely helped me feel better. It only lasted for a couple of hours, but that's all I needed to push through to my final dose. Believe it or not, it's still been a little difficult even at such low doses. But this morning I woke up feeling fine, and actually think today will go even better than yesterday! I've decided to push off my first .5g for as long as I can. Hopefully I'll make it until tonight, or maybe I won't take any again. Who knows lol I'm pretty excited about being this low. I'm very happy to hear the subs are working for you!! Thanks for the advice on groups. I think that was just the push I needed to really start looking. Keep up the good work friends!!!
Guys,Kava from Kalmwithkava.com has been absolutely amazing. First day really using it (I used a little yesterday) but it's been the best thing so far. I got a strain that says it's mostly for daytime use, and some say it can cause anxiety, but honestly it's been nothing but great. Too much and I get naeusuas (spelling?), which I like. But it's definitely helped with any withdrawal I was feeling. I feel like I want to push it, but definitely can't because of the nausea, which is a great thing. I naturally want to push everything, but this stuff won't let me! So far it gets a 10/10 for help with anxiety and any other withdrawals. I can see why it's non-addictive. I literally get addicted to anything, seriously, anything I do and it would be ridiculously hard for me to do that with this. Plus research seems to say it's not physically addictive. I'm pretty impressed to say the least. So far I'd recommend for sure. It is a little pricey, but definitely worth it. If you overdo it, you definitely get more nauseas with it than with kratom, it actually tastes worse if you could imagine. I'm hoping reverse tolerance is true, and also that I can get the great sleep everyone seems to say it brings. If so, this will be the first night of "great" sleep I've had in a while. Needless to say, so far, on my first real day, I'm really excited about the effects and would definitely recommend. Great natural herb! Kava has helped me so much today that I straight up skipped my first dose, meaning it will be a full 24 hours before I dose again tonight. If I feel this fine by then, I may just skip that dose too. I am still sweating, but that's been the only symptom so far, which I can deal with. Annoying, but tolerable compared to the rest. Let me know what you guys think. Too good to be true? I'd rather know now than after using this stuff for two weeks. Again, thanks for everyone's help! Stick to it guys, you've got this!!!
Great work on your taper!! Your progress is truly amazing. Taper of any drug is notoriously more difficult at the very end, but it sounds like your doing great comparably! Keep that shit going! You?re just about there!!??

As far as the Kava, I say if it?s helping then go for it!! That shit won?t hurt you unless you overdo it. One time I took wayyyyyy to much over the course of a night and ended up sick as hell for a couple days. Just be sure to stay hydrated, eat plenty of food, and keep your doses moderate (maybe 2-3 shells at a time MAXIMUM) to avoid the illness and nausea. If you do that and you like the effects and it helps with the Kratom withdrawals, then fuck it. Go for it!!! So glad it?s helping you!!!

I do AA just because it?s so convenient and there are literally thousands of meetings a week in my city. I totally get why some people don?t like it and we don?t have to get into that here. Do whatever works for you! I don?t know much about Celebrate Recovery, but if you dig it then do it up! I?ve heard good things about a group called Smart Recovery. Might be worth checking out too. Best of luck JShock!! I?m so glad to hear about your great progress and your willingness to find a group or some sort of outside long term help!! You?re doing all the things to give yourself the best chance at sobriety, health, and a sober healthy future.

Keep it up and keep us posted!! Much respect friend. ??????????????
Another thought about Kava, like I said before I really don?t think there?s much risk for developing physical dependency for Kava, but a mental obsession/addiction can develop for pretty much anything if your genetics and personality are prone to addiction. I think it?s pretty safe though. Like you said, you can only take so much before you get that powerful nausea. And it tastes horrible. Absolutely horrible. I?ve read a lot about the reverse tolerance theory of Kava, though I didn?t experience that when I was drinking it daily for a week or two. However I also didn?t experience regular tolerance either. It seemed to have the same effect per dose consistently when I drank it daily. I personally don?t really enjoy the effects and it does make me extremely nauseous, even at moderate doses. I believe my gaba receptors are super sensitive, which is probably due to years of heaving drinking when I was younger and then a couple bouts with benzo dependency and withdrawals. I also went through the ringer, to a much lesser extent, with phenibut, which also hits gaba receptors. Kava also effects gaba receptors, so I think my receptors being somewhat fried just don?t like the Kava. But I don?t understand the neurochemistry around it well enough to truly know what?s going on there. Anyways, I?m so glad to hear it?s been so helpful. The fact that you were able to skip your Kratom dose is amazing!! Holy shit you are so close! Don?t let the Kava make you put your guard down though. I?ve never really experienced lowered inhibitions with Kava, but considering it is a gaba drug it could possibly do that. Sounds like you?re about at the jumping point with Kratom!! Stay strong friend! You?re just about there and I?m here for you!! I?ll be helpful in any way I can as you continue your journey to freedom. Keep us posted. much love and respect. You?ve definitely got this!! ????
Was just thinking about what you said about if you got a good nights sleep it?d be the first time in a long time. Curious, how did you sleep that night? Was it better? I hope so. If not I wanted to suggest melatonin. I tried melatonin a few times years ago, before I got on Lexapro, and the results were mixed. Back then it didn?t seem to improve my sleep a lot, though I do think it helped a little. The thing I did not like about it back then was that it seemed to have a bit of a hangover effect and made me a little depressed for part of the next day. Fast forward 3 or 4 years to today and I now love melatonin. I tried it again about 6 weeks ago after not touching it for 3 or 4 years and it works like a charm now. It not only gives me really good deep sleep, but it seems to reduce my anxiety considerably when I take it, and though I do feel a bit groggy some mornings, it?s actually kind of a pleasant grogginess, if that makes any sense. It doesn?t feel bad and I don?t get the depressed feeling anymore. I just feel kinda sleepy for a half hour or so after I get up, kinda like it just takes me a few minutes to wake up and be fully alert. No big deal, and my anxiety seems to be fairly low during that period, which is a great thing for me as my anxiety is usually very bad in the mornings. I know serotonin is involved in melatonin in some way I don?t fully understand and I think that being on Lexapro now, which affects serotonin, some how altered the way it affects me a little. I was quite concerned about developing a tolerance and perhaps throwing my natural sleep cycle out of whack and all that stuff, but after doing some research online it seems that tolerance and rebound insomnia and things of that nature aren?t too much of a concern with melatonin. Like anything, I?m sure it?s not good to take every day for long periods of time, but it seems like in the short term it?s pretty harmless. Here is a good article about melatonin and the tolerance concerns etc...


One other thing, my mom and I went to a 30 minute guided meditation class a few days ago and we were both literally blown away by how effective it was at relieving our stress, depression, and anxiety. My family has had one of the toughest years of our lives for various reasons, including health problems, business catastrophy, and other things and my mom and I have found some relief in meditation. For whatever reason the person guiding and teaching the 30 minute meditation on Friday had us both feeling like thousand pound weights had been lifted from our chests by the time we got done with the meditation. My mom was moved to tears and I was damn close. It was an incredible experience for us. I?ve been meditating semi-regularly for the past couple years, but this was by far the most powerful session I?ve ever had. Interesting that it was the same for my mom. We obviously needed it. Anyway, if you or anyone out there is looking for a healthy coping skill to add to your tool box I highly recommend meditation. It can be very difficult to do when you first start out, especially if you?re doing it alone, but having a guided meditation makes it much much easier and in my experience just as effective. Good stuff. Very good.
Thanks for all the advice Scrillion! I was able to make the jump to 0 grams the day I got the Kava! I haven't taken any kratom since! I'm now out of Kava with no plans to get more. It did make me a little sick for a few days, but I definitely think it did its job of keeping me away from the kratom. I'm now on day 5 with no kratom and actually feel pretty good! A little off, but definitely good! Sleep has been hit or miss, but I think it's getting better. I'm excited to see how much better life gets now! I'm glad to hear you've got a lot going good for you as well! The meditation and group therapy are great ideas! It looks like things might be at a turning point for us! Keep up the great work and we'll have a great life!!
Congratulations Jshock!!! That?s the best news I?ve heard in a while. Great job and keep it up. I?m genuinely very very happy for you! Enjoy your newfound sobriety and hold on to it with everything you?ve got. As you know, life is a lot better and a lot easier to deal with when you?re sober. Keep us in the loop as to how everything goes. With some dedication to your new sober life I?m confident you have some great things to look forward to. Much love and respect friend!
I?m 19 days off of Kratom and my Suboxone taper is going very well. I?ve actually been able to decrease faster than my original plan. So that?s encouraging, but I?m being careful not to go too fast and end up screwing it up. I see the Dr again on Thursday. After that I have 2 weeks left on my taper plan. Getting pretty excited. Looking forward to complete freedom from all substances (other than Lexapro, haha). I?ll keep updating.
Yeah, get some magnesium, vitamin e 100 IU and turmeric and maybe some N-A-C. Those are solid supplements that will ease your body and mind. ALSO, DRINK A LOT OF WATER. You could also taking 1/2 tablespoon of baking soda. Some might not agree but that is good to heal and cleanse the kidneys.

I have about 3kgs of kratom. I haven't taken any in about 5 months. It is fun and all (hence my username) but it loses its magic after a while. It also made me not want to do jack crap because I took the more sedating strains.

Best of luck to you brother. %)