Quitting high dose Kratom habit via taper

[Scrillion]

Thanks! I appreciate the tips and encouragement. Be careful with your stash. If you take breaks every couple days you can avoid trouble, but if you get really hooked (like I did, ugh) and take large doses for a long time the withdrawals can end up being extremely brutal. I was taking 60-80 grams a day for the better part of 9 months and before that binge I had gone on and off for a good 6 months. The withdrawals got more painful and longer lasting each consecutive time I withdrew. Some people can handle it and control their use, but those who struggle with chemical dependency can end up in a world of hurt. I wouldn?t wish it on my worst enemy. It ruined my life and took everything from me including my marriage, my home, my money, my job, and ruined or severely damaged many important relationships. Most the info out there underestimates the possible risks and level of addiction and physical dependency that can occur. I hope by sharing my nightmare with others that I can increase awareness about these things a little. Best of luck to you. Please be careful. Take care. I appreciate the post.

 

[KraziKat]

Scrillion, way to go.

Can you please describe your suboxone dosage amounts and taper schedule you have been using? I too am using subs to try and quit oxy and kratom. I've used both interchangeably for quite awhile. TIA

 

[Scrillion]

Sure KraziKat. I?m doing a 28 day taper with the Subs. Started at 16 mg/day, which was kind of high but I was only on that dose for 2 days. Then I went to 12 mg and have been decreasing by 2 mg every 2-3 days, until I got to 8 mg. At 8 mg my taper schedule says to take 8 mg for 6 days then go to 6 mg. I?m at 6 mg right now. So far it?s been pretty easy. Once I got down to under 12 mg I started to feel the decrease for a day or two, but it?s not that bad and a hell of a lot less painful than the hell I was going through with the Kratom. Today is the 2 week mark. I see my Dr again tomorrow to get my script for the next week. The Dr also gave me five 1mg klonopin to help on those days I decrease my dose, which has been super helpful. If all goes as planned I should take my final dose of subs two weeks from today. Fingers crossed. I feel not quite 100%, but immensely better than I?ve felt in 6+ months. Been going to 12 step meetings everyday, meeting with my sponsor every week, and staying in touch with friends I?ve made in recovery on a daily basis. All that has been super helpful also, and for me is the ticket to long term sobriety once I get off all this crap. Best of luck to you. Thanks for posting.

 

[Jshock1313]

Just wanted to give an update. One week and one day sober after my kratom taper! I still have some night sweats, very mild anxiety on some days. The worst thing has been the craving for alcohol and other drugs that has come back. The cravings haven't been that bad though and I've been able to easily fight then off so far. Other than that I've been feeling great lately! I have my motivation back, I'm starting to sleep through the whole night unless the sweats wake me up, and just a general good feeling about finally being clean for the first time in over a decade! I think I'll learn to overcome the cravings even easier with the more time I spend sober. It's possible guys and girls! You can do this and be happy without being a slave to any substance! You got this! So glad to hear you've been sticking to your taper Scrillion! Keep killing it!!!

 

[Scrillion]

Thanks for the update Jshock! Great news!! The worst is definitely behind ya. Everyday that passes will get a little better and you?ll be at 100% in no time. Very very happy for you. Thanks again for sharing. Your story has been very inspirational and has provided me (and others I?m sure) with a lot of hope. Saw my Sub Dr again on Thursday and the taper is moving along right in pace. The dose deceases are getting a little tough, as I?m down to 4 mg/day from 16 mg/day just 17 days ago. But my body seems to even out after a couple days. I?ll be on 4 mg/day for 5 more days, then it?s down to 2 for 6 days and then I?m done. Freedom is close!! Getting very excited to be wrapping up this 9 month nightmare. I?m a little nervous about going to 2 mg and then jumping. I?m sure I?ll feel some discomfort especially at the jump, but I think it?ll be much more manageable than the hell I dealt with before when I was trying to taper and then cold turkey Kratom. The long half life of the subs has almost certainly made it much easier. I don?t see the Dr for 2 weeks after my Thursday appointment that I had a few days ago, and that also has me a little nervous, but he?s given me a small supply of klonopin to help get through those tough dose decrease days, which has been very helpful so far. I expressed to him that I was nervous about these lower doses and the corresponding dose decreases, but he assured me that if things got to tough to handle without the risk if relapsing on booze or Kratom or whatever other self medicating nonsense I might consider if I?m in to much pain, that I could email him and he?d promptly call in a small order of subs to help me even out. That really made me feel more relaxed and confident knowing that was an option. He said he was going to push me to get through the taper as scheduled but that if we absolutely have to we can add a day or two here and there if it means my acchieving success on getting through it ASAP without a relapse. I think/hope and am crossing my fingers that I?ll get it done on schedule. But I?ve akso accepted the fact that there is no shame in extending it a few days in order to do it successfully. Anyway, thanks again for sharing and all those that have shared as well. This blog combined with my 12 step program, sponsor, staying in touch with my little squad of recovery friends, excersizeing, meditation, and doing my best to be otherwise productive has all been incredibly helpful and the key to my recovery and healing process. Stay strong all! ????

 

[inittowinit]

Hi all. I'll start my own new thread with details but just wanted to say how inspiring all of you are. And Scrillion, I am rooting so hard for you!!! You got this! And know if for nothing else, your experience is helping others. I'm betting there are tons like me who read but have never posted. Thanks for openly sharing your struggles and victories. Makes me feel like this really is possible!

Opening a new thread to share my battle with the leafy green lady. Today is day one of a taper and I don't think I'd be saying that without this thread. Thanks all!

 

[Scrillion]

Thanks for sharing inittowinit. Best of luck. You can do this! Vitamin c and some other supplements I?ve discussed in previous posts can be helpful. Some sort of recovery program such as AA, NA, therapy, Smart Recovery, etc. is also highly recommend. I don?t think I?d have made the progress I have without AA and NA. There?s several types of programs out there so if you don?t like AA or whatever, find one that you can get down with. It?s essential for long term sobriety. Wishing you the best!! Stay Strong!!! ??????

 

[Totbot]

I am vey proud of everyone here. Its been impossible for me to taper kratom but i found one suboxone... Actually just 6 mgs and i stopped kratom on friday.. Sat i had 1 mg in the am and 1 mg in the pm and vit c 1 g every few hours throughout the day and today and i had 1.5 mg sub this morning with 2.5 g vit c every 2 hours today. Ive not felt great but haven't been sick. Tomorrow i am doing 1 mg sub plus 5 g vit c every few hours and only vit c on tuesday. I am determined to get clean no matter what. I have to be free. I Hate suboxone but i am desperate. I was on a sub program for a year and i stayed morbidly depressed. This time im only getting over the hardest part with it and using natural supplements to maintain sobriety. I am very grateful for the info on sodium ascorbate. Thanks again Scrillion!

 

[inittowinit]

Scrillion, thank you! I'll have to find your posts on supplements and go get some today. There's a great health food store near where I shop counseling.

Yesterday did not play out great, but I'll learn as I go. I get too convinced I can just barrel through, even though deep down I know better. I'm praying this process isn't as harsh as Tramadol Das, but I'm beginning to think they are similar beasts. ?

I'm going to look into recovery resources today too. I have a great counselor who works with me on trauma through EMDR and I'll start integrating recovery into that as well.

How many days left until this last bit is behind you? It's got to be such an amazing feeling!

 

[Totbot]

Inittowinit you are in my prayers! I know you can do this. All you need is a desire to get clean. Vitamin c... Sodium ascorbate is a God send and so is a 12 step program. You'll def need both and im so glad to hear you already have outside help! None of the stores around me had the sodium acorbate tho... I had to order online. I tried to cold turkey and i lasted one day after tapering down to 20 g kratom and couldnt get out of bed. Then i went right back up to where i was before. Theres no doing this alone. But good this is... You arent alone!!!

 

[Scrillion]

Keep up the good fight everyone! I agree that it?s almost impossible to do without some sort of help. My sub taper is going well, though I had to slow it down a little as the drops were getting a little more painful than I felt I could handle without doing something stupid. Luckily my Dr is very understanding, especially since we?re doing such a fast taper. I was basically dropping my sub dose by 2 mg/day every 3-4 days. Once I got down to about 8 mg the drops started getting pretty tough. I know I?m going to have to endure at least some pain to get this done, but I?m going to go a little slower in an attempt to minimize the pain as much as possible and hopefully therefore eliminate the chance I do something dumb like drink booze or something. So for the rest of my taper I?m going to drop 1mg out of my daily dose once every 3-4 days. I feel much better about this. I?m currently on 6 mg/day and feeling ok. Not 100%, but it?s very tolerable and a bazillion times better than when I was trying to cold turkey or taper Kratom. My original sub taper plan was a 28 day regimen, but with the alterations my Dr and I made it?ll end up taking an extra week or two. I?m totally fine with that. I?ve learned that for me it?s better to go slow and eliminate as much pain as possible than to try to push myself too hard. After 9 months of physical and mental hell I am physically, mentally, and emotionally wiped out and I need to go easy and be good to myself. So glad this thread has been helpful to so many of us. I guess I can?t speak for the rest of you guys, but for me this has been unbelievably helpful and encouraging. I just want to stress one more time the importance of a long term recovery program. I go to AA, but there are several other programs out there that can be utilized too if you don?t prefer AA. Find one that works for you and make recovery your top priority. I know that sounds like a huge commitment, but please learn from my mistakes and take my word that that is what it takes. I had 4 years of sobriety through working the AA program and when life got really really good, as it often does in true sobriety, I got complacent with my recovery program, put it on the back burner, and ended up struggling with it all again when life threw me a few curveballs. Curveballs are just a part of life. They will always happen and if you are not working a strong recovery program when they come your way you can end up back in drug and alcohol hell very quickly and easily. For me my recovery program is and has to be more important than anything else in my life; including my relationship with my wife and family, my business, all my goals and dreams etc. Because without a strong recovery program there is no relationship with my wife. There is no successful business. And my goals and dreams are impossible to achieve. Recovery is number 1. Always and forever. That allows me to live out all the great things, relationships, and dreams. I have to admit and accept that I cannot drink or take drugs safely ever again. By admitting defeat by drugs and alcohol...I win the battle. That?s the paradox of recovery. It?s essential. Love and light to everyone out there struggling. I will do anything I can to be helpful to those fighting this terrible disease. Partially because I genuinely care about all of you, but also because I know that in order to keep my sobriety and my recovery I have to give it away. Give it back. By helping each other, we help ourselves. Take care everyone and please keep posting. I?ll continue to do the same.

 

[Totbot]

Thank you for posting that. I had a plan to get over the worst of the withdrawl with a sub and its working at 1.5 mg a day but i think im just putting it off. I had the same thought last night that this cannot continue. I must put getting clean above everything because its the most important thing in my life that i must do.. Right now. I have reached out for more help. I want so much more in my life and when the withdrawl hits my disease tells me all my desires are going away never to return. It lies so hard to me. I am going without this weekend and however long into next week. I will keep the glory of my days clean in the forefront of my mind and the prayer that it come back to fruition in my life.

 

[KraziKat]

Great, inspiring post, Scrillion. Let's keep fighting the good fight.

 

[Scrillion]

I hear ya Totbot. When the pain of withdrawals hit my disease becomes very very powerful and tells me I have to do anything, no matter how destructive, to self medicate and feel better. It?s true insanity. You can do it though!! Stay aware that the disease is lying to you. There are healthy things you can do to help ease the discomfort. Excersize, supplements, aleve, sleep, etc. Keep reminding yourself that it will absolutely get better. It will pass. And on the other side of that discomfort is true freedom and truly feeling great. Clean. Sober. Healthy. Happy. And you can do all the things your disease has prevented you from doing. You?ll also have the ability to repair damage and fix relationships and finances etc. But we gotta do this one day at a time. If I start worrying about tomorrow or next week or next month it gets overwhelming. But if I just do my best today, make a little progress, stay sober, etc., then I can do it again tomorrow and the next day and the next week. One day at a time though. Those days add up pretty quick when we get in the groove of sobriety. Keep up the good work everyone. I appreciate all of you very much. Thank you for my sobriety. We?re gettin there. I certainly can?t do it on my own and you all have been incredibly helpful in my recent progress. I was pretty much hopeless a month ago. Now I?m 30 days Kratom free. In a couple more weeks I?ll be sub free too. One day at a time. ??????

 

[Scrillion]

Was just thinking about how this disease lies to us and it reminded me about an excellent documentary that explains the brain injury and resulting series of brain malfunctions that happen which are the cause of addiction and also the reason why it is truly a disease and not some sort of weakness in will power or moral issue or any other lame explanation. It?s called Pleasure Unwoven. You can find it on Amazon. I highly highly recommend anyone battling this disease give it a watch. It?s really good to have family members and loved ones watch too, so they can better understand what the hell is going on with us. I bought a copy and have watched it with several of my family members. It?s been incredibly helpful to me, as someone struggling with this affliction to better understand it, and for my relationships with my family. Once they see the disease and the behavior that accompanies it is something we have almost no control over, and why, family members and loved ones can better understand how to be helpful and also forgive us easier for some of the insanity that is a result of this disease. I have no connection in any way to the creator or distributor of Pleasure Unwoven. It was shown to us at my Intensive Outpatient Program last year. Good stuff. Very good. Get it and watch it. Show it to your loved ones. I promise it?ll help you and them tremendously. Onward and upward!! ????

 

[Scrillion]

Just thought I?d check in. How?s everybody doing? KraziKat? Totbot? Inittowinit? JShock1313? Hope you guys are doing well. My Sub taper got a little tough and I got stuck at 6mg/day for a week or so, but I?m down to 4/mg day now. Hoping I?ll be totally off in a couple weeks max. Best of luck to everyone. I?ll keep updating. ??

 

[OnNoff4years]

I know this is an old thread but did you ever taper down?

 

[Scrillion]

Thread actually isnt old. I started it about 6 months ago but we?ve been posting with progress, struggles, successes, etc consistently. I?m currentky tapering Suboxone, as the Kratom taper and cold turkey I failed at repeatedly. Started at 16/mg day on Siboxone about a month ago and am down to 4/mg/day currently. If you read some of the recent posts you?ll be able to get the deatails of the struggles and progress I?ve and others have had. Right now I?m very encouraged and hoping to be done with the Sub taper in a few weeks. Please feel free to post with detailed of your situation, and successes and struggles, and any questions you may have. We?re all here to help each other and speaking for myself this conversation has been a huge boost to my moral, achievements, set backs, and my recovery in general. I think others who have participated have gotten a lot out of it too. Best of luck to you. Please share your story, struggles, successes, and insight and advice if you feel up to it. I greatly appreciate all who have participated in this discussion. It?s very helpful to us all. Much love and respect to all who are struggling to fight this nightmare of an affliction. Thanks for posting. Take care!! ??????

 

[Scrillion]

Where you guys at? Hope everyone is doing well and making progress. I?ve struggled with this Sub taper over the last few weeks. I was super motivated to get it done super fast and was having some real tough days because I was just trying to decrease it too fast. I was doing anywhere from 2-3 days per daily dose, and it?s was just to quick for my body to have enough time to adjust to each dosage before dropping again. So luckily I have a very great Dr, who is in recovery himself (11+ years) and is very understanding, encouraging, non-judgemental and doesn?t treat me like some low life drug addict trying to manipulate him. I?m very grateful I found him. We were originally trying to do a 28 day rapid taper, but I?ve screwed it up a little a few times at these lower doses by trying to decreased to fast, just because I really really want to get it done. I went to see him today and was very understanding, encouraging, and generally just made me feel a lot better about things. The taper plan that I was originally started on called for a decrease in daily dose once every 6 days or so. For the last few weeks I was decreasing every 2-3 days, which proved to be just ineffective and somewhat counterproductive. So today he basically told me that there?s no point in pushing myself unessesarily hard just to get it over with as soon as possible. He explained to me that I have made a lot of progress in the last month, the lower doses tend to me more difficult, and it?s totakky fine if I take my time and go slower. It really doesn?t matter if I finish in 2 weeks or 2 months. It?s better to take myasaaa time to make it as easy as possible and do it right, than pushing to hard/fast and risking having several days of feeling terrible from dropping to fast and putting myself through unnecessary misery in which I could end up relapsing or doing something else dumb. So, starting the new plan with longer periods on each dose, like 5 or 6 days instead of 2 or 3, and I?m feeling really good about it. He made the point that I?m working a very solid recovery program in AA, which includes working the steps with a sponsor, going to 12 step meetings every day, having a home group, a service position, being in constant daily contact with friends in the program, excersizing, meditating, and keeping myself busy. I?m sober for 41days, and though i?m on prescribed medications, those substances don?t get me intoxicated and I?m doing all the right shit. I think hearing that from him is something I needed as a boost to my moral and my confidence that I?m doing what it takes to live a healthy, happy, sober life. My spirits are certainly a bazillion times better after that conversation. So!! Doing pretty well. Excited for the future and feel confident that I?m doing the things I need to do in order to live the life of sobriety and happiness that I want more than anything in the world. As I?ve said before, this blog/conversation has also been an incredibly useful tool in my journey and I greatly appreciate the discussion, feedback, stories of success and struggles, insight, advice, and experience, strength, and hope you all who have contributed have provided. I hope to keep it going and would love hear some more updates and such from you all. Thank you for being a helping hand in my recovery. You?re participation has helped me more than I can express. I just hope I?ve been able to help in some small way to others here as well. Much love! Stay strong! One day at a time my anonymous friends! Together we can do this!!!! Drugs, alcohol, food, sex, gambling...whatever addiction this world throws at us. We can do this with help. Not on our own. ???????????

 

[KraziKat]

Hi Scrillion! Just want to chime in and say I'm pulling for you, and it can be done! Like you, I struggled mightily with kratom, which I discovered long ago as a useful tool between oxy binges. And I also had the hardest time tapering it as well and opted for subs. Self-medicated, of course. I have not been to a proper doctor in years.

Well, I am happy to report today is day 5 of no subs. However, I did take a decent-sized dose of kratom yesterday as I was feeling real shaky with the sub WD. Over the month, I managed to taper from 4 mg to .5, then started skipping a day, then, lo and behold, I just sucked it up and jumped. But, alas, broke down and ate kratom yesterday, just once and not today. It doesn't appear to have set me back.

I think I'm done with the subs. Now I need to get used no maintenance substances during the day. I'm chipping away at some adderall right now, and using booze and a benzo here and there at night. That shit has to stop! Not doing myself any favors, but I am saying "one thing at a time." Let's kick the opiods/kratom first, then address the things i ingest to help sleep when I get home and the serious cravings hit.

Not sure why I resist cannabis. It truly takes away so much of the cravings.

As for your situation and struggle tapering, I'm sure you have done a of research... but maybe try very small drops in amounts?