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Detox Qutting kratom with stack of comfort meds - suggestions?

Sunyecho

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I will be quiting kratom 10 days from now. I took it for pain management and to be able to function. Plan was to start taking it, not exceed 20-25 grams, find a job I enjoy and then to stop kratom when the positive effects are not sufficient to justify the negative ones. Well, I have found a job, my life is going better generally and I'm at that time and place when kratom doesn't suffice. I was taking it for 4 months and my current dose is 20-25 grams in 4-5 devided doses. 10 days from now I'm going on vacation for one week and I want to kick. I can use kratom for few months and then I need a tolerance brake, like the one I intend to have now (at least 6 months of no kratom). I plan to quit and continue living with the momentum I gathered.

Now the part that I need help to figure out. I am prescribed:
-pregabalin 300mg daily (don't use it)
-clonazepam 6mg daily (I take 1-2 mg daily)
-zolpidem 10mg daily (using it rarely per need)
-tianeptin 37,5mg daily (just got the script)
-methylphenidate 36mg 1-2 capsules a day (I use it per need, not regularly)

I also have ~30 10mg memantine pills that I was given (not prescribed). All other usual suspects are in my medication/supplement cabinet also (loperamide, NSAIDs, melatonin, black seed oil, magnesium, multivitamins...).

That is a whole lot of "comfort meds". Only clonazepam is my daily med and others I use per need for pain and to function otherwise. I do not take more than I am scripted and have established a good self control and regulation. All this meds are prescribed by same psychiatrist and he is aware that my main issue is chronic pain which I cannot get treated by pain clinic (cause we tried all the things available in pain clinics and I have a history of addiction...so it is all buprenorphine and methadone I want but from another place and not a single other, less potent, opioid...). I have digressed to paint a picture for people who are reading my post for the first time. Sorry if Im annoyance to other people who have read my canonical works - "Mein issues through the years".

I want to use time and medications wisely. My main point is to be as able as I can at the end of the 7 days period cause I have to start working again. I have some medication that I never used before, like memantine and tianeptine and would like to get some nudge in the right direction. So khm khm @MsDiz , @chinup , @Pumpkin2021 (feel free to insert your name, I will only add @dalpat077 - the great voice of SA and PP 🤣). Love you all even if you do not want to be tagged. That's life...As Stones say "You can't always...". Talking about music I will also give a shout out to @n3ophy7e (sorry for not knowing when you are due and congrats if you have delivered :) ).

Baaack to the point...now you can see why I consider @dalpat077 a great friend that I never saw and possibly my alter ego in some other "refreshement" (parallel reality is so 2010s...). Ok, finishing this paragraph and rapping up. 🙄

Considering my goals what approaches can this great community give me? I need a take on memantine and tianeptine. I want to transfer as little withdrawal to 8th and ongoing days. But I also don't want to be on 4mg of clonazepam+300mg of pregabalin+37,5mg tianeptine+72 mg of methylphenidate either.
I have to pay the piper and am aware that I am actually doing a kind of a transfer taper, but want to do it better rather then worse. Main aim is no kratom and enough funcionality so I can continue with my (office) job. I need a pretty sharp mind to be able to do my job so I cant be on bunch of downers on day 8.

Sorry for torturing your eyes and thank you for your attention. I will most definitely keep this thread up even if no-one replies to hold myself accountable. Also this will be kind of a trip report with information about using (some of the) medication listed. I hope that someone will find this thread useful.

With that said I will post thread. :)
 

Pumpkin2021

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Hey there. Hard to say what I would recommend for comfort meds. I guess I would have to see how I felt once I quit. If I started to WD in say 6 hours I would pop 300 mgs of Lyrica. I would actually just use that ( personally ) until my WD was over. If I got real uncomfortable I would pop 600 at a time. I like Lyrica as it does a real good job on anxiety, depression, insomnia, mood.....whole bunch of things. Kinda like kratom does. I used to pop 600 at a time ( 2 of the red and white 300 mg ones ) and feel just fine. With nothing else at all. Just those. If the lyrica won't get you to where you need to be and you aren't sleeping there's always a low dose benzo for a few nights.

Have you ever quit before? Any idea on how you might feel? I hear for some it's not that bad and for some it's hell. This is just me but 25 grams a day is a pretty low dose. That's what I take and have for 2 years. But I have never quit so I don't know how I would feel.

If I were to quit I would want Lyrica, weed . and maybe 10 pills of a benzo ( for sleep only ) until I got over the hump. Maybe 5 to 7 days.

My issue would be that I would have to have a set number of all my quit meds and only take them for a short time. Otherwise I would replace the comfort meds for my daily mood lift instead of the kratom. And to me the kratom is the lesser of two evils for me. I'm not good with those pesky little scripted pills. When I have 'em I eat 'em so they are best kept at a distance from me.

Let us know when you quit and how you are feeling. You might get by okay. Some of those other meds you have in your comfort bag might not be a good idea like the tianeptine. Isn't that a fairly strong opioid. Stronger than mitragynine anyway. I wouldn't take that one as won't you just keep tickling those receptors?

Good luck to ya man. You for sure have plenty of meds to keep you comfy. I know you can do this fairly easily with what you have and you seem to have quantity so you are good to go. Keep us posted.
 

Nas47

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Hey there. Hard to say what I would recommend for comfort meds. I guess I would have to see how I felt once I quit. If I started to WD in say 6 hours I would pop 300 mgs of Lyrica. I would actually just use that ( personally ) until my WD was over. If I got real uncomfortable I would pop 600 at a time. I like Lyrica as it does a real good job on anxiety, depression, insomnia, mood.....whole bunch of things. Kinda like kratom does. I used to pop 600 at a time ( 2 of the red and white 300 mg ones ) and feel just fine. With nothing else at all. Just those. If the lyrica won't get you to where you need to be and you aren't sleeping there's always a low dose benzo for a few nights.

Have you ever quit before? Any idea on how you might feel? I hear for some it's not that bad and for some it's hell. This is just me but 25 grams a day is a pretty low dose. That's what I take and have for 2 years. But I have never quit so I don't know how I would feel.

If I were to quit I would want Lyrica, weed . and maybe 10 pills of a benzo ( for sleep only ) until I got over the hump. Maybe 5 to 7 days.

My issue would be that I would have to have a set number of all my quit meds and only take them for a short time. Otherwise I would replace the comfort meds for my daily mood lift instead of the kratom. And to me the kratom is the lesser of two evils for me. I'm not good with those pesky little scripted pills. When I have 'em I eat 'em so they are best kept at a distance from me.

Let us know when you quit and how you are feeling. You might get by okay. Some of those other meds you have in your comfort bag might not be a good idea like the tianeptine. Isn't that a fairly strong opioid. Stronger than mitragynine anyway. I wouldn't take that one as won't you just keep tickling those receptors?

Good luck to ya man. You for sure have plenty of meds to keep you comfy. I know you can do this fairly easily with what you have and you seem to have quantity so you are good to go. Keep us posted.
Thianeptine is used like AD with minor mu receptor agonism.Some say very addictive and really hard to quitt.In Russia and in other parts may be they shoot this with croc....dire consequences.Think other name was coaxil
 

Sunyecho

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Thank you for the support @Pumpkin2021 :) I kicked kratom several times and have come to an understanding that I can use
it for 3-4 months and then have to quit. After 6 months off I can repeat the cycle. If youre interested in my last kick here is the thread where I documented how easy it was to do it with enough pregabalin.

I agree that pregabalin is great for all the things you mentioned but as I have a very mentally (cognitively) taxing job now I would like to use less of it. If I was unemployed I would most definitely knock myself out with pregabalin and then tapper off. But with all the other options that I have now I am wondering if there is a better way. I never used memantine or tianeptine for withdrawal and I am wondering if taking pregabalin in lower doses from day 1-4 and combining it with memantine on days 2-4, than tapering pregabalin off and introducing prescribed dosages of tianeptine could make the process more smooth. 🤔

I am even considering using tianeptine for pain. It is an opioid after all... I have the box of 90 pills sitting home and can repeat the prescription as much as I want. I just don't know how useful it is in 3 x 12,5mg dosages. I don't actually to take it in higher dosages then prescribed...but if that could get me through the worst 5-7 days in a month I would consider it.

I have come to know myself and can be trusted with prescription medication. Street stimulants are my downfall as that is the class of drugs I really resonate with. So I stay away from them but I am ok with using prescribed medications. It is weird... I actually feel a responsibility and obligation not to lie to doctors that are actually willing to help me.

I have kicked oxycodone (twice) morphine (once), buprenorphine (once), tramadol (once) and kratom (several times) before. So I know it is not a big deal. But I am trying to find smooth landing here. That's why pregabalin only approach is not what I am so keen to do now. :)
 

Sunyecho

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Thianeptine is used like AD with minor mu receptor agonism.Some say very addictive and really hard to quitt.In Russia and in other parts may be they shoot this with croc....dire consequences.Think other name was coaxil
I know that, but I believe that much higher disages than those prescribed are needed. Also I said, if 4 x 60mg could get me through the most painful days I am open to possibility of using it as a painkillers like kratom for the worst of days. I am experimenting and looking for unorthodox ways of pain managment. Thank you for the info, cautious message and interest in helping me @Nas47 :)
 

chinup

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hey!!

good to have you back. i hope you get some good advice, i've never used kratom so can't specifically advise on that but your comfort med selection will certainly see you through the worst.

what i am concerned about is that your opiate receptors will be disregulated due to the kratom use. i think that with 4 months use you might be OK, but its possible that you'll get some withdrawal every time you use opiates for a while, so i'm not sure that using periodically is a good idea once you do your kick. i get that you are in a difficult situation given your chronic pain and you might get off scot free but i would just be careful to use as infrequently and as little as possible.

its great that you have a week off to do this. do you have any responsibilities in that week? i would try and taper as much as possible before you jump, it will make your ride much easier. sorry i can't be of much use, kicking opiates is something i've proven myself to be incredibly bad at!!
 

Sunyecho

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I know that I will pay for my each use of opioids as I have established tolerance but I have a choice - bad or worse. It's a balancing act and as long as I am away from potent opioids like methadone of buprenorphine I can do the show. We never get free rides in this universe as energy taken has to be given back. But I am really glad that I started kratom as I excelled in other dimensions of my life. I can deal with kratom, even with tapentadol (I wouldn't want to take a gamble with stronger opioids if not necessary) - stimulants are my weak spot. I never used opioids till my doctor prescribed and I never really craved opioids - I crave release of suffering that pain brings. That may be the reason why I can use opioids responsibly. At least now, after I learned how difficult the opioid dependence and withdrawal can be. I wish I could say that I will not touch opioids in the future, but that would be as dum as would be if I refused to take salbutamol when I need it. I can not explain it otherwise. Regarding tapering...it's not that difficult to kick kratom and I don't want to drag it out. I am just trying to find out how to approach the whole thing with the meds I have. Fortunately I have bo responsibilities in that week so I can suffer in peace. I actually am looking forward to it as my stomach is starting to reject kratom. Thanks for reply @chinup ! Having supportive responsevis always of use. 🙂
 

dalpat077

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Sunyecho

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Thanks @dalpat077 for the useful info and a terrible clothing advice. You made me laugh and that is as good as it gets in this subforum. Glad your man is going strog, but put out putin from the baby clothes. 🤣

P.S. I don't wan to go too much off topic in H&R but feel free to pull of some prank in other places. Use your alt and let @Pumpkin2021 deal with it now. 🙄
 

Pumpkin2021

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Thanks @dalpat077 for the useful info and a terrible clothing advice. You made me laugh and that is as good as it gets in this subforum. Glad your man is going strog, but put out putin from the baby clothes. 🤣

P.S. I don't wan to go too much off topic in H&R but feel free to pull of some prank in other places. Use your alt and let @Pumpkin2021 deal with it now. 🙄
1-800-Cocaine at your service.
 

dalpat077

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Thanks @dalpat077 for the useful info and a terrible clothing advice. You made me laugh and that is as good as it gets in this subforum. Glad your man is going strog, but put out putin from the baby clothes. 🤣

P.S. I don't wan to go too much off topic in H&R but feel free to pull of some prank in other places. Use your alt and let @Pumpkin2021 deal with it now. 🙄
I assure you it was not my intention to shit post or derail a HR thread. So I apologize.

I just didn’t know that somebody was pregnant and expecting.

So I posted bearing gifts! :ROFLMAO:
 

Pumpkin2021

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I assure you it was not my intention to shit post or derail a HR thread. So I apologize.

I just didn’t know that somebody was pregnant and expecting.

So I posted bearing gifts! :ROFLMAO:
Our lovely @n3ophy7e is about 6 or 7 months along and expecting a boy. Wonderful Mother she will make. Lucky, lucky chap.
 

Sunyecho

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Ok, now back to topic. Can we develope some "Suny recipe" for opioid withdrawal with memantine, tianeptine and pregabalin as main ingredients? That Thomas recipe for opioid withdrawal is out of date. And it has a lousy name... Like:

1) Memantine
2 days before start of detox take 5mg memantine to see how you react, day before take 10mg memantine, on day one take 30mg, days 2-4 take 60mg and, days 5-7 taper off 30, 20, 10

2) Pregabalin
Take as needed up to 600mg daily and taper off as soon as acute phase is over

3) Tianeptine
From week 2 take 3×15mg (therapeutic dosages) to help you deal with paws. Beware of stronger dosages as tianeptine is mu opioid agonis. Take with caution and stop after a month.

4) Loperamide
Take therapeutic dosages if it is necessary to stop the GI disturbance. Higher dosages need to be avoided. It is also an opioid that doesn't readily cross blood brain barier. Dont use it if other meds help sufficiently.

5) Benzodiazepines and Z drugs
Take with great caution for the acute phase and stop. Other meds should suffice but if they dont use it for sleep. Beware of mixing multiple sedatives

6) NSAIDs and paracetamol/acetaminophen for pain.

7) Suplements to help you bounce back like black seed oil, magnesium and multivitamins. Melatonin can be useful for sleep.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This is not an actual protocol verified by anybody. This is something I will try on myself and give feedback as a one case scenario.

I will actually start with memantine 5mg 7 days before kicking (on monday) and up the dose to 10mg 2 days before (Saturday) and then try it out as I wrote. I am open to suggestions @MsDiz , @plumbus-nine , @chinup , @sekio , @G_Chem -> sorry you all for tagging but I am doing this in my interest but we could have a case study and find out something useful. I have tagged the people that seem very knowledgeable about pharmacology.

IMPORTANT: I am asking for opinions not medical advice. Feel free to ignore this thread, but if you think that there is something of a value here than by all means - help me devise some updated "protocol".
 

chinup

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i think seeing how you react to the memantine before using it during withdrawals is a great idea.

my general approach to withdrawals is attempt not to take any comfort meds until i was absolutely desperate. which on reflection possibly contributed to me never once getting through a rattle while i was in the country. so i think your idea of anticipating the discomfort and not letting it get too bad before you go for the comfort meds is great.

i'd avoid lope if you possibly can, any opioid will draw out the withdrawals and i would find myself quite frustrated still sick on day 10, though able to be up and about and stuff, knowing full well i'd have been fine on day 7 if i hadn't have caved and used something.

and yes being wary of mixing multiple sedatives is helpful too.

you probably don't need telling this, but you are using some pretty addictive drugs, so cut them out ASAP. no point cross addicting.

and keep us updated. we are here for you and rooting for you!!
 

MsDiz

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Hey @Sunyecho nice to see you and thanks for the tag! I have absolutely no experience with kratom so I wouldn’t know where to begin other than say that pregabalin can be useful. I wonder do you have it as 300mg capsules? I assume you’re more likely to have 150mg capsules? If so you’d be better just to use the 150mg and see how you go. Taking the other 150mg at night.

I’m going to tag @negrogesic as he is very knowledgable in both Kratom and tianeptine.

From my research you really don’t want to be messing with tianeptine but @negrogesic can explain it better.

Sorry I haven’t been much help but I don’t want to give advice where I have no knowledge of the drug. You should get lots of replies though!

Missed ye and welcome back to the forums I know you took a bit of time off! ❤️
 

Sunyecho

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Thank both of my former eadd colleagues, I really appreciate it. I am aware of dangers that come with auch powerful substances. It is a good thing that I have a great record in past 5 years and am not abusing any prescription based medication. I know that pregabalin can be fun, but I never wanted to go above 600mg daily (and that was for a week to see how will it impact me). Tianeptine is also sitting on a shelf waiting to be properly used. In fact every substance I use this days are to improve my functioning and I don't want to blow it, that's for sure. My biggest itch is amps/coke but I am not scratching it as I know the path...and it is not pretty. Even methylphenidate is not something I abuse. I don't want to lie and act holier than thou - in last 2 years I have taken pregabalin few times just for fun. The same is true with methylphenidate. It may seem contradictory to previous statements but the reason I use those substances is not to let ego fatigue make me do more dangerous things. So it is therapeutical recreation. Or I am just rationalising...but it has been less than 10 times I used it that way.

I have pregabalin 75mg and 150mg capsules. But I also have emty capsules to properly tapper off pregabalin down to 25mg. I could kick kratom with using pregabalin only but I want to try memantine as it is non addictive and I have heard good things about it regarding tolerance reduction and withdrawal intensity suppression. Tianepetine is the only medication I havent tried in my quest for adequate pain managment.

To summarise - this is an experiment in which I am trying to find out is there a better way to go through opioid (short acting one) withdrawal than the ways I previously (successfully) used. I am not looking for a get away from jail free card. I'm not that deluded. I am experimenting with novel substances and am trying to do it as responsibly as I can.

I know that this is not my last tolerance break I must cope with chronic pain that has been a ruin for my life in last 5-10 years. I am still loking for a proper way of maximising my functionality in the long run. Kratom is controllable, as is tramadol and tapentadol. I want to make sure that I get as much for as long as I can from medications that I can or could possibly obtain. I don't want to go on buprenorphine or methadone again as they are just too hard to dose per need and take too long to kick. I guess that I am trying to go in a merry-go-round but in a proper way with avoiding addiction. If that merry-go-round means 3 months keatom/3 months off, 3 months tramadol/3 months off, (I wish) 3 months tapentadol/3 months...with pregabalin (and possibly tianeptine?) per need...well I can live with that. As long as I am taking care of my family and other aspects of my life. My life will never be perfect but I can make it worthwhile and that's my long term goal.

Sorry for digressing from "main subject" but after all that I went through things are really nit that simple. I am proud that in two years I have made plans, sticked to them, major ones are accomplished or somewhat modified. I have failed on some fronts but I am pleased. My lude is in a constant upwards trajectory. Finally. And I will not get complacent. That is the reason of semi-perminent tweaks and experiments. I hope that I can find stable plan A, B and C to follow through. That is my mission for next 3-5 years. Stability, stability and some semi-stability sprinkled in between.
 

0.o_LaCuNa_o.0

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Ok so OP, from what I understand is that you want to remain sharp at work and kratom is hindering that?
 

negrogesic

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I would avoid fooling around tianeptine at higher doses. The opioid properties become apparent after 100mg or so. At very high doses the opioid effects are unmistakable. I'd say 500mg of tianeptine is equal in strength to around 60mg of oxycodone. If you abuse it in such doses you are profound risk of becoming addicted.

The good thing about kratom withdrawal is that it is pretty short lived. The acute phase is over after 5 days. The depression and poor appetite can last a bit longer.

Not sure how well memantine works in practice, never tried it. I always recommend black seed oil however when it comes to kratom withdrawal. It really helps with the restlessness that comes with kratom withdrawal.
 

Sunyecho

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Ok so OP, from what I understand is that you want to remain sharp at work and kratom is hindering that?
Kratom actually helps, but only for 2-3 months and then I would have to up the dose over 30G or use extracts. So I have cycles of using and stopping it for 6 months or so. After "tolerance brake" I can use it again and have benefits. Now is the time to stop kratom and I am trying to find some new way that would be potentially better. I have meds that I never had before - memantine and tianeptine. This is an experiment. I saw people speaking how memantine works very well for lowering the tolerance and/or to help immensely with withdrawal from opioids in general. So I am trying to gather info before I proceed.

I would avoid fooling around tianeptine at higher doses. The opioid properties become apparent after 100mg or so. At very high doses the opioid effects are unmistakable. I'd say 500mg of tianeptine is equal in strength to around 60mg of oxycodone. If you abuse it in such doses you are profound risk of becoming addicted.

The good thing about kratom withdrawal is that it is pretty short lived. The acute phase is over after 5 days. The depression and poor appetite can last a bit longer.

Not sure how well memantine works in practice, never tried it. I always recommend black seed oil however when it comes to kratom withdrawal. It really helps with the restlessness that comes with kratom withdrawal.
I will not fool with the dosages of tianeptine that you have mentioned. Even if I wanted to I couldn't cause I am scripted 90 12.5mg pills monthly. Thats why I am considering it as an add on in the later part of the withdrawal. To smoothen the landing by using it as orescribed for a month. I am already taking black seed oil, I saw your posts about it and tried. I can not tell is it helping with tolerance cause I am taking it every day so it is hard to judge. It is great add on for me personally cause it helps me with allergies that are bothering me usually.

Thank you all for the responses. I have changed the plan and will be kicking kratom starting Tuesday. I cant get vacation the week that I thought I can but can get 4 days and weekend off next week. So I will start with 5mg memantine tomorrow and proceed as I feel. I will use 40-60mg of memantine in days 2-4 and take prefabaline as needed. I will document it here. It came sooner than I thought but I am ready. Just hope that pain will be tolerable when I stop cause I don't have a backup. If it starts to hurt too much I will reconsider further course of action. But that is 1-2 months after acute phase of withdrawal is over.

So game on!
 
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