Should I suggest to my estranged adult son that we drop some acid together and go for a long walk in the woods?

[Jabberwocky]

So I have a son in his early 20s from whom I have been totally estranged for about two years (his choice) and who was a problematic child from about 14 (when he came to live with me). OUr relationship such that it was consisted mainly in me attempting to give him practical advice for success in life and him blowing smoke up my ass or outright lying about everything as he failed school, turned to petty crime and drugs, and decided advice from anonymous right-wing and libertarian cranks on the internet was more reliable than anything he heard from me, other family members or his teachers. I thank god he never stumbled upon CEPS.

There were a number of traumatic experiences in his early childhood (stemming from family breakdown) that explain (but do not excuse) a lot of how his life has turned out. His mother did her best to cut him off from me and other family members on my side for about 10 years and during that time really poisoned has view of us and of Australia (she is from another country).

Recently, he contacted me in an attempt to open a door to building a bridge that might eventually lead to a healthier relationship. Previously he’s only contacted me once or twice a year asking for money and ignored all attempts by any family member to contact him. He is totally opposed to any kind of therapy or professional help.

I know he has tried a lot of drugs, including DMT and LSD, but primarily for shits and giggles. I also know he probably has Cannabis Use Disorder and long term damage from cannabis.

However, I often feel that a long day in nature together under the influence of LSD might shatter some barriers (on both sides) and be a transformative experience in terms of creating a healthy relationship between us.

Opinions?

 

[negrogesic]

Sounds like a bad idea. If anything, mushrooms would be a better choice. It has a far more familial aspect to it, LSD is such a self-focused drug.

Better off spending some actual unadulterated time together, the LSD will put a haze on things.

Do you feel uncomfortable at all around him?

Of course, I don't have kids so not qualified to advise. Despite my neuroticism I think I'd made a good father. Who knows though I'd certainly make a better father than a husband.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Sounds like a bad idea. If anything, mushrooms would be a better choice. It has a far more familial aspect to it, LSD is such a self-focused drug.

Better off spending some actual unadulterated time together, the LSD will put a haze on things.

Do you feel uncomfortable at all around him?

Of course, I don't have kids so not qualified to advise. Despite my neuroticism I think I'd made a good father. Who knows though I'd certainly make a better father than a husband.

One of the issues between us is that he adopts a tough guy persona when he interacts with me and both lies constantly and refuses to discuss anything that has any emotional content.

I find that persona pretty distasteful which in turn makes me uncomfortable associating with him. It’s hard to listen to some of the extreme bigotry he has towards different groups. Also hard to deal with how resistant he is to facts and reason.

(perhaps this explains why I get triggered elsewhere in BL by people presenting in a similar way).

I guess I want to believe that all that bravado and bigotry is just a hard shell and that the loving and beautiful 7 year old who was taken away from me by his mother is still inside somewhere and still reachable.

Facts and reason don’t work and neither does me and other men in my family being role models. So I sometimes wonder if an epiphany might be encouraged with psychedelics.

I credit them with making me more tolerant and less arrogant. But I also note around here psychedelic enthusiasts who are not all sweetness and light too…

 

[arrall]

There are a lot of factors here that determine my answer to the question.

decided advice from anonymous right-wing and libertarian cranks on the internet was more reliable than anything he heard from me, other family members or his teachers.

I'm about the same age as your son, and I fell in with those sorts of toxic communities ages 13-15 or so. I will say that it was around a period in my life when I was emotionally near/at rock bottom due to abuse, loneliness, and other factors. While I do not credit psychedelics directly with helping me get out, they opened my mind a bit which probably played a small part. My views slowly moderated towards the center, and then getting involved in local activism started my journey into the left. I wouldn't suggest getting your hopes up that psychedelics will help with this particular issue so much as sweep it to the side during the trip. For de radicalization, YouTube channels such as Contrapoints, Hbomberguy, and Philosophy Tube MAY be helpful.

I know he has tried a lot of drugs, including DMT and LSD, but primarily for shits and giggles. I also know he probably has Cannabis Use Disorder and long term damage from cannabis.

Some important details here: How does he react to psychedelics? How often has he done them? Is he open about them with you? Does your son know about your own psychedelic usage?

There were a number of traumatic experiences in his early childhood (stemming from family breakdown) that explain (but do not excuse) a lot of how his life has turned out.

Honestly, it sounds like MDMA may be a better option here than LSD or psilocybin. His personal psychedelic usage clearly doesn't seem to have dealt with this problem. Psychedelics generally just amplify already present mental states when left unguided so that's to be expected. MDMA tends to be much better for healing from trauma and repairing relationships, if your son is open to doing it.

I guess I want to believe that all that bravado and bigotry is just a hard shell and that the loving and beautiful 7 year old who was taken away from me by his mother is still inside somewhere and still reachable.

I would expect that the front he puts up is mostly that (a front), but that does not mean that it will be easy to break through it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

There are a lot of factors here that determine my answer to the question.

I'm about the same age as your son, and I fell in with those sorts of toxic communities ages 13-15 or so. I will say that it was around a period in my life when I was emotionally near/at rock bottom due to abuse, loneliness, and other factors. While I do not credit psychedelics directly with helping me get out, they opened my mind a bit which probably played a small part. My views slowly moderated towards the center, and then getting involved in local activism started my journey into the left. I wouldn't suggest getting your hopes up that psychedelics will help with this particular issue so much as sweep it to the side during the trip. For de radicalization, YouTube channels such as Contrapoints, Hbomberguy, and Philosophy Tube MAY be helpful.

Thanks @arrall. I really appreciate the person insight from your own experience you have provided here.

Some important details here: How does he react to psychedelics? How often has he done them? Is he open about them with you? Does your son know about your own psychedelic usage?

I don't know how he reacts to them. Although he seemed to be a bit in awe of their power -especially DMT when he mentioned his use to me a couple of years ago. He knows my drug history and mental illness history in a kind of general way as I have framed it all in the past tense when discussing it with him. However, we became aware I did IV stims 2 years ago when rifling my room for cash and valuables and stumbling across my tools and stash.

He was fairly shocked by that I think. And it may have actually helped him turn away from being so enthusiastic about drugs. It was difficicult to convince him that I'd only just gone into relapse after 5 straight years due to Covid pressures, relationship break down, plus the intense stress of continually bailing him out of juvie and listening to him lie constantly about everything.

Honestly, it sounds like MDMA may be a better option here than LSD or psilocybin. His personal psychedelic usage clearly doesn't seem to have dealt with this problem. Psychedelics generally just amplify already present mental states when left unguided so that's to be expected. MDMA tends to be much better for healing from trauma and repairing relationships, if your son is open to doing it.

You may well be right but unfortunately MDMA has almost zero effect on me at any dose. Something, I suspect, which is a side-effect of neuroplastic changes brought about by a few years on anti-psycxhotics and then 2 solid years of heavy stim use. Not to mention my general tolerance from 5 years on ADHD meds.

I would expect that the front he puts up is mostly that (a front), but that does not mean that it will be easy to break through it.

I hope you are right. I tend to believe that the 'inner child' stays with most people - even if they are not in touch with it...and he was a beautiful child.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

It sounds like it could be a good idea, possibly...I've had quite a few positive experiences using that class of drug to become closer with friends, girlfriends etc. Not family members but I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to that. I've smoked/grown weed with my parents before lol...but that's the only drug I've ever done with my folks. Generally my experience with drugs like LSD or psilocybin is highly positive and I've found that they strengthen interpersonal relationships...but it's hard to say with certainty if it's a good idea or not imo. Definitely worth considering though

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

One of the issues between us is that he adopts a tough guy persona when he interacts with me and both lies constantly and refuses to discuss anything that has any emotional content.

I find that persona pretty distasteful which in turn makes me uncomfortable associating with him. It’s hard to listen to some of the extreme bigotry he has towards different groups. Also hard to deal with how resistant he is to facts and reason.

(perhaps this explains why I get triggered elsewhere in BL by people presenting in a similar way).

I guess I want to believe that all that bravado and bigotry is just a hard shell and that the loving and beautiful 7 year old who was taken away from me by his mother is still inside somewhere and still reachable.

Facts and reason don’t work and neither does me and other men in my family being role models. So I sometimes wonder if an epiphany might be encouraged with psychedelics.

I credit them with making me more tolerant and less arrogant. But I also note around here psychedelic enthusiasts who are not all sweetness and light too…

What does he lie about? is it about stuff that's emotional that you want to talk about but he doesn't? or just straight up lies?

and what do you mean by "extreme bigotry" is he like borderline neo-nazi or is he just being a bit immature about others?

and you're right - not everybody is "trees, and grass, and flowers everywhere" just because they trip - but it's there, and i think he's gotta find it on his own, which he likely will, and i think the fact that he reached out to you to build on your relationship, that you should let him steer the ship....his arrogance and intolerance of others will most likely be addressed in life's lessons.....in the meantime, let him be him and don't try to change him unless he asks you to help him...you're right, it might be a shell but it might just be his defense mechanism....he'll alter and adjust that all in time and with life's lessons....

so i say, no - for now, don't offer him a hit of acid in hopes of tearing down some of that ego

 

[arrall]

@Perforated in that case here is my advice:

I don’t see a lot of downside in inviting him to trip with you, but that doesn’t mean that I’m right or that there is a huge chance of it significantly improving your relationship with your son.

I’m going to assume that negative external outcomes such as his mother finding out are not likely and/or not a concern here.

The biggest thing here is your intention with the trip. Are you hoping to repair your relationship with your son, or are you hoping to change him?

If your hope with this trip is just to repair your relationship (which I’m guessing that it is), then I think that doing LSD with him could go well and it would be worth asking him if he is interested in the idea. Just make sure to minimize/avoid being critical of him and/or attacking his behavior, even harmful things such as his bigoted right-wing views. I know that when I was in that phase of my life, I handled criticism particularly poorly.

Emphasize that you want to have a relationship with him and that you regret not having a close relationship with him in the past. Be honest with him about how you feel. That is the best way to repair your relationship with him, whether you are sober or under the influence of psychedelics.

If you’re trying to change him, change is something that he needs to want and that he will need to do on his own. You can only help him with it indirectly by being there for him and repairing your relationship.

 

[mr peabody]

The main thing is to express that your love for your son is above all and everything else to you. Baby steps, man.

 

[nznity]

Mdma would be more suitable bruvvvv I think.... @Perforated

 

[Mjäll]

what i would've wished is for my parents to face my opinions and hear me out. I don't want them to tacitly consider me bigoted and orchestrate interaction from that assumption. Opinions are very important for young men. They are the source and the expression of strength and vulnerability alike. It's a deep question of honesty, however factual or non-factual. I myself am right-leaning and have arrived at this through an outlier level of intellectual scrutiny, although i understand that for some people it may be a kneejerk reaction. Whatever the case with your son, i think his opinions need to be treated with sincere respect and curiosity. Either he can learn from you, or you can learn from him, or both.

Tripping together isn't necessarily a bad idea but in my view it shouldn't be the first step in reconciliation.

 

[axe battler]

It'd great that you wanna fix things with your son @Perforated, but as others have said the acid could be risky if you're not comfortable around eachother.

Obviously you know your son better than us, so if you think he'd be up for it then it could actually work brilliantly. Mushrooms and a few beers/smokes could be even better as long as you don't get super fucked up (obviously this would be a nightmare if both of you go really hard on the booze!)

Do you think he'd respond positively to the suggestion of camping alone, without necessarily tripping? Do you guys fish/hunt/hike/climb/kayak/etc?

I think you should go for it! And maybe let the tripping take a backseat and if it feels right, break out the trips, if not have a beer and a chat.

Good luck! My son is only little and I hate the thought of us growing apart. I'm seriously rooting for you guys.

 

[Jabberwocky]

It'd great that you wanna fix things with your son @Perforated, but as others have said the acid could be risky if you're not comfortable around eachother.

Obviously you know your son better than us, so if you think he'd be up for it then it could actually work brilliantly. Mushrooms and a few beers/smokes could be even better as long as you don't get super fucked up (obviously this would be a nightmare if both of you go really hard on the booze!)

Do you think he'd respond positively to the suggestion of camping alone, without necessarily tripping? Do you guys fish/hunt/hike/climb/kayak/etc?

I think you should go for it! And maybe let the tripping take a backseat and if it feels right, break out the trips, if not have a beer and a chat.

Good luck! My son is only little and I hate the thought of us growing apart. I'm seriously rooting for you guys.

Thanks man. He actually called me up out of the blue the other day. After talking to him for the first time in about a year, I think just going on a road trip for a few days down the coast and doing some spear fishing and photography might be the best option. He does not drink and neither do I so I think we could have a sober trip - though I’d have to accept that he would probably go for a walk each night to smoke his weed. He talked a lot about his interests in activities he knows I was really into when he was a little kid - so I think he is sending me a message he wants to do some stuff together he feels he missed out on.

 

[arrall]

I think just going on a road trip for a few days down the coast and doing some spear fishing and photography might be the best option.

so I think he is sending me a message he wants to do some stuff together he feels he missed out on

Glad to hear that you found a way to repair your relationship with your son. I think that the road trip idea is a far better option than anything involving psychedelics or other drugs.

Hope that everything goes well and that you and your son have a good road trip together.

 

[ResolvedCore]

Jabberwocky, I preface my opinion by writing that I do understand this is a complex situation and this snapshot I read severely biases and possibly misses some assumptions I am going to make in the chance it could help. It sounds like you and the mother had a pretty toxic relationship/marriage. I say this because it seems like you feel strongly that she was manipulative in trying to bias your son's views of you. If so, would it be fair to say that she was also manipulative to you as well? It's pretty frustrating when those dynamics happen. You mentioned that trauma spanning over many years due to family issues explain (but not excuse) your son's actions, yet it seems like you strongly are upset with your son over his past mistakes? Since this is an HR forum, it's pretty well known that medical and psychological conditions can eventually take over and cause people to do things they wouldn't normally. Diabetic's that choose to let that medical condition go untreated long enough, will eventually have psychological and other medical problems that are just flat out caused by the progression of the illness. It's not that it should be "good" to "excuse" negative effects of prolonged childhood trauma, but it's not necessarily bad either. Especially since there is a good explanation of it by your accounts.

Given that it sounds like you and your son are still communicating, then I don't think the damage has progressed to a point of no contact/relationship indefinitely. I would caution the use of any drugs with your son because it sounded like you both could still benefit from having some core breakthroughs and my gut feeling is that won't be a parent/young adult experience shared together without possibly facing some really "heightened" negative consequences. That's not to say that in time with consistent and responsible mutual effort that a trip couldn't be realized. I suppose oddly that it just has a feel of being a bandaid solution because you obviously really care about your son and likely know that trips are about losing control to achieve serenity and presence. A control that is still being lessened in time from everyone perhaps?

Edit for clarity: Kids test boundaries even without any trauma in life. It's very normal to have smoke blown up the ass of adults by snarky often intelligent kids. The triggering frustrations may exist more with behaviors that resemble or remind you of negative aspects of Mom.