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Heroin Starting methadone on monday and need advice!

negrogesic

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In my experience you can only increase every so many days anyway. Here it's usually 3-4 days (depending on the doctors decision). Other places might be weekly.

I'm not sure how quickly they let me go up but it seemed fast. They were expensive and it seemed like I could dictate my dose to a degree. The first day I was given 50mg which is a little higher starting dose than I've heard, then had to wait there for 2 hours. Then they asked me how i was and I said still not great (which was a half lie, I was fine) and was given 10mg more. My habit at entering was not too insane, 4-5 IV 100mg morphine pills a day, so I didn't need more. But I could I say I fine when i could have more. I was 20 years old. Somehow I got up to 380mg, but i struggle to remember how fast or incremental the dose increased from say 100mg to 200mg, I don't recall. I think the limit of 380mg was when they insisted I take a peak and trough blood test to see what was going on and I said nevermind. In my defense I would take 240mg in the morning and 140mg in the afternoon and still wake up in slight withdrawal, feeling cold, sweaty, uncomfortable. I would get pretty lit up though by noon when that 240mg kicked in, wonderful naps.

I once took 960mg in a single dose and fell asleep face forward in a bowl of cereal.

You should consider quiting at some point, although the methadone existence isn't terrible and at times I miss my blanket.
 

JessFR

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I'm not sure how quickly they let me go up but it seemed fast. They were expensive and it seemed like I could dictate my dose to a degree. The first day I was given 50mg which is a little higher starting dose than I've heard, then had to wait there for 2 hours. Then they asked me how i was and I said still not great (which was a half lie, I was fine) and was given 10mg more. My habit at entering was not too insane, 4-5 IV 100mg morphine pills a day, so I didn't need more. But I could I say I fine when i could have more. I was 20 years old. Somehow I got up to 380mg, but i struggle to remember how fast or incremental the dose increased from say 100mg to 200mg, I don't recall. I think the limit of 380mg was when they insisted I take a peak and trough blood test to see what was going on and I said nevermind. In my defense I would take 240mg in the morning and 140mg in the afternoon and still wake up in slight withdrawal, feeling cold, sweaty, uncomfortable. I would get pretty lit up though by noon when that 240mg kicked in, wonderful naps.

I once took 960mg in a single dose and fell asleep face forward in a bowl of cereal.

You should consider quiting at some point, although the methadone existence isn't terrible and at times I miss my blanket.

Honestly, that sounds really irresponsible on the part of your methadone provider.

I find it very hard to believe 500mg of morphine, if that's all you were on, would require anything like 300mg of methadone. Something doesn't seem to add up here.
I mean don't get me wrong, I wouldn't call 500mg of morphine IV a day a small habit, it's just that 380mg of methadone is so much.

Also methadone can cause heart arrhythmias, mainly long QT. It's not common and not everyone's equally susceptible, but at really high doses the risk does go up.

As for me quitting, I'll quit only when I feel confident I'm not likely to relapse onto heroin again. Otherwise I don't think it's worth the risk.
 

Ganjcat

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Messages
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here's a tip for anyone on methadone tell your pharmacist to always let you take your dose in the private consultation room so it looks like you have an appointment, that is if you don't want people to think your scum of the earth trust me shit like that travels unless of course your already well known in that case your better off taking it in public and opting for the sympathy vote please note I am talking about the uk but this may still apply if your a yank probably very similar system I think I dunno in fact I'm interested to know how different it is in America
 

JessFR

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here's a tip for anyone on methadone tell your pharmacist to always let you take your dose in the private consultation room so it looks like you have an appointment, that is if you don't want people to think your scum of the earth trust me shit like that travels unless of course your already well known in that case your better off taking it in public and opting for the sympathy vote please note I am talking about the uk but this may still apply if your a yank probably very similar system I think I dunno in fact I'm interested to know how different it is in America

Here in Australia, I get dosed at a pharmacy, and me and the other people who dose there dose in the public area.

I've never seen anyone cause any kind of am issue or even particularly pay any notice to us.

Honestly... I question what proportion of the other customers are even entirely aware of what's going on with us.

Could also be partly a result of the kinda area I live in. Wouldn't surprise me if attitudes would be different in Sydney, but I wouldn't really know cause I always dosed at a dedicated clinic there.

All the pharmacists and other staff are nice and polite though. A lot better than some staff I've seen in public clinics.

As for the US, I believe subuxone can be provided through pharmacies, but methadone can't be. So for methadone it's not applicable.
 
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Ganjcat

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Apr 13, 2013
Messages
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Here in Australia, I get dosed at a pharmacy, and me and the other people who dose there dose in the public area.

I've never seen anyone cause any kind of am issue or even particularly pay any notice to us.

Honestly... I question what proportion of the other customers are even entirely aware of what's going on with us.

Could also be partly a result of the kinda area I live in. Wouldn't surprise me if attitudes would be different in Sydney, but I wouldn't really know cause I always dosed at a dedicated clinic there.

All the pharmacists and other staff are nice and polite though. A lot better than some staff I've seen in public clinics.

As for the US, I believe subuxone can be provided through pharmacies, but methadone can't be. So for methadone it's not applicable.
Yeah that's cool jess but I'm a private person you know and most people are cool about it but some love to gossip or look at you like a scumbag even if they don't say it
 

Ganjcat

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Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
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Here in Australia, I get dosed at a pharmacy, and me and the other people who dose there dose in the public area.

I've never seen anyone cause any kind of am issue or even particularly pay any notice to us.

Honestly... I question what proportion of the other customers are even entirely aware of what's going on with us.

Could also be partly a result of the kinda area I live in. Wouldn't surprise me if attitudes would be different in Sydney, but I wouldn't really know cause I always dosed at a dedicated clinic there.

All the pharmacists and other staff are nice and polite though. A lot better than some staff I've seen in public clinics.

As for the US, I believe subuxone can be provided through pharmacies, but methadone can't be. So for methadone it's not applicable.
I thought you lived in the us don't know why just always thought you
 

JessFR

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Yeah that's cool jess but I'm a private person you know and most people are cool about it but some love to gossip or look at you like a scumbag even if they don't say it

I've seen no one look at me in a negative way either.

Personally I don't care. Anyone who'd judge me isn't anyone I want to know.

I thought you lived in the us don't know why just always thought you

I'm actually a dual citizen of the US and Australia, but cause I was raised in the US I still use American spelling out of habit. And my accent is much more American than it is Australian.
 

Keif' Richards

Moderator: BDD, OD, NSADD
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Messages
6,477
Location
Lowell/Charlestown, Massachusetts
I didn’t mean to hurt any bodies feelings I’m just sharing my experience, I said that from the beginning it just seems that a advocate for methadone maintenance took offense .

Ask 100 folks that are on methadone maintenance and I betcha the farmhouse that the overwhelming majority feel trapped by being on maintenance, and that again is simply me speaking from my experience ..YMMV

Hey man, we are not trying to gang up on you and chase you away, although I know it might feel that way. The issue here is not your opinion, it's speaking in an objective sense, casting an extremely wide net and in the process, devaluing and illegitimizing the progress that people have made. Your totally entitled to your opinion.

You're actually right. You are chained to the clinic when you get on Methadone maintenance. I'm in agreement there. Like Jess said though, does that mean that being chained to the clinic can't possibly be positive? In general, the idea of chaining an addict to something makes sense, because you're trying to teach them stability, continuity and responsibility. I'm sad to say that we are the kings and queens of the "Give an inch and they'll take a mile" fan club. Like I said, if you do the right things and try to clean up, you get take home medication. I can totally see how the situation would become dysphoric for the individual who keeps falling down, relapsing and not making progress. I really think for those who start the program with a fire in their belly for change find it to be a decidedly positive experience.

We just don't want you making absolute statements like "Abstinence is the only way... period". Just think about how that is worded for a moment. You make an absolute statement, followed by a confirming article at the end, just when your reader is taking time to contemplate the original statement. When they're thinking, "Man, I don't really feel that way..." they are hit by the "period", telling them that they are deluded for even considering a different answer.

Opinions are always allowed. Just please try to accept that people have opposing viewpoints and differing experiences. You can easily share your opinion as just that, an opinion. I guarantee you, 100% that this community will not attack you in any way for stating that you believe abstinence to be the only and best answer. They will probably debate you on the subject and share their own opinions, but that is what we are all about here. We are the definition of a egalitarian community. Everyone comes into our world the same. If it seems like we have a hierarchy here, people at the higher end of it are only those who people feel have trustworthy advice or have been helped by that person's advice.

Anybody can be a big part of this if they want to be. If I got on here today and said "Fentanyl cannot kill you. We are all eternal beings whose flame cannot be extinguished", I would probably lose my position as a moderator before independence day 2021.

I mean, it goes without saying that we are eternal beings... Thetans, if you will. Children of the atom by way of Lord Xenu's Hydrogen Holocaust. I know it wasn't all fun and games back in those days, but I challenge any Thetan reading this to honestly say that there wasn't at least one part of the "Super-Colossal 3-D Movie" that they enjoyed. Don't be dicks.
 

Keif' Richards

Moderator: BDD, OD, NSADD
Staff member
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
6,477
Location
Lowell/Charlestown, Massachusetts
I thought you lived in the us don't know why just always thought you

YAYAYA!! Congratulations @JessFR. Now, I can finally visualize you as a pink pony dressed like Crocodile Dundee, with a necklace made from Crocodile teeth, on a walkabout, with shrimp on the barbie???? I'm so pleased with myself right now. :D ;) I don't know about you, but I think you've definitely earned a G'day from me!

I tend to forget that this is how it's done outside of the United States. The Drug Enforcement Agency officially runs Methadone within the borders of the states. It makes more sense than say, doctors or some other randoms in charge doesn't it? Doctors here prescribe the medication of course, but they work within hard and fast guidelines assigned by the DEA and every milligram of juice must be accounted for.

Jess, what is the process for getting on the program? Do you get prescribed at a different place and are then allowed to choose a pharmacy local to you? Is it all pharmacies? What is take-home medication like for you? Back when I was on it, the rules were extremely rigid. You didn't get a single takehome til you'd been 100% clean for 3 months, then you got two a week after 6 months, every other day at 9 months and a week once you've reached a year with no slip-ups whatsoever in that time period.

My understanding was always that programs were much more lenient overseas? I know plenty of people now who were given weeklies at the two month mark in the midst of Covid. I think I already stated this, but the programs are planning a massive rewind and return to normalcy. I know the local clinic is going to let everyone who has them, keep them, provided they don't fuck up, but new folks might be subject to the original, ridid rules, albeit with what I suppodse are slightly more lenient rules.

A ton of people have been given takehomes of relatively speaking, extremely high dosages of Methaone, a straight up Mu agonist that kills all the time and there were apparently no spikes in Methadone-related deaths. This speaks to the incorrect philosophy believed by many : Doctors are the gatekeepers for addictive drugs and it is only by their shrewd prescription practices that not every man, woman and child is a dope fiend. My honest belief is that addicts are addicts and there are people with interests in life above and beyond drugs. I have no doubt that availability can cause problems, but the vast majority of folks who use drugs will use drugs regardless of the supply.

There are people who risk their lives, multiple times per day in Saudi just to sell dope and there are people who risk their heads every day buying it. What does that tell you about the nature of prohibition. (Drops the mic)
 
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Ganjcat

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Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
4,530
I've seen no one look at me in a negative way either.

Personally I don't care. Anyone who'd judge me isn't anyone I want to know.



I'm actually a dual citizen of the US and Australia, but cause I was raised in the US I still use American spelling out of habit. And my accent is much more American than it is Australian.
fair enough and I knew it ahah I can sense these things
 

darvocet21

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Joined
May 31, 2021
Messages
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Ok so me and my BF have decided to make the switch to methadone. We have been both using for 5 plus years on and off. We are to the point where we are both muscling it, it's the only way we can get well. We use BTH and it's just that time! We are both covered in abcesses all the time and it's just really getting old. So my question is about starting on methadone. I know they start you off low and go up from there. We both work and are worried about still being sick in the beginning until we can get up to our comfortable dose. Is it possible to still use after dosing for the first couple of days to get well to get through work? Is my big question. I know it's not recommended and I'm not looking for anyone to tell me it's not a good idea or it defects the purpose. I just want to know if it is possible and will help to get me well enough to get through my work day until I can get up to my right dose or tell it's bareable to make it through the day! If there is anyone that has personal experience with this and can help me out it would be greatly appreciated. I am not looking to be on methadone so I can continue to get high I'm just trying to make it through the first week and still be able to function because I work 2 jobs and can't offord to take time off without loosing my jobs. So if anyone has gone through this please let me know and if you have real advice on how to do it until I can get stable on my dose. I have already tried suboxone and it was he'll I was on 2 mg and still feeling sick! Iam really serious about getting off the stuff and doctors have already told us with the amount we use that suboxone is not the best option. Sorry if I'm rambling but if anyone has been able to do this and has advice on how to please respond back with understanding and no criticism. Thank you!
How are things after your first week?
 

Adnilem

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Joined
Jun 20, 2021
Messages
13
Location
Southeast Alaska
Maybe the person who said abstinence is the best way was talking about for people who don't shoot up and only smoke it..? Everyone who hears that someone does heroin assumes that they are going to overdose and die. But it's practically impossible to die from only smoking it. If its not that hard to OD smoking it then I want to know where you get your stuff, haha.

I can agree with the person saying abstinence is the best way because I don't want to replace my addiction with another. The plan was to get unaddicted. I know what the word treatment means and I know it is the best advice someone can give to someone who shoots up. Only because of the 99.9% chance they will relapse after quitting.

For those who don't shoot up and only smoke it. Abstinence sounds like a wonderful idea. But there are risks. Depending on your age you can even have a heart attack because your heart won't be able to handle the sudden changes in your body. Lots of other things could happen I imagine you could get seriously dehydrated and have to be hospitalized for that even. You have to have a plan.

You have to make your plan as solid as possible. You have to believe in it. You have to believe in yourself. You have to believe things will get better and be a lot better once you're through this.

I'm currently pretty hardcore addicted. To smoking it. I have never seriously tried quitting. But I have been developing my plan. What I'm going to do is make posters beforehand of everything that motivates me written in big print and hang them all over my walls. Things like any motivational quotes. Like literally anything that reminds me of why I need to quit, and why I want to. The posters will have lists of things to watch out for, like triggers. And I will have plans to avoid them.

Some people don't realize their addiction is also a habit. Something you've become accustom to doing everyday, like a ritual. When I was addicted to smoking oxy 80's they ran out in my tiny town and the only thing around were the unsmokable "football" 80's. My dude said only one person was buying them. Probably because everyone was actually addicted to the act of smoking it.

You can be addicted to the act of just going out to get it. Or addicted to spending money. You're going to need some supportful friends if you're trying to quit all by yourself. This might be where you realize all of your friends do drugs too. You're going to have to tell them beforehand that you're going to start trying to quit and which day. Because if they call you up needing your help getting something you're going to want to help them because they're your friend. And that will be a sudden trigger and probably justification to go get some "one more time".

When you're trying to quit and want support you might realize the only person you even interact with is your drug dealer. Part of your plan should include what happened between you and everyone who is important to you in your life and make plans to amend things. You can only do this once you've quit. You'll be a better person, guaranteed.

There are so many reasons I want to quit. I can't go on vacation because I will be sick once I get there and be sick the whole time. I can't go see a concert if I wanted to. I live in Alaska by the way. Going anywhere means going by plane. I'm always broke. I wish someone told me before I got addicted that I would be spending literally every dime to my name every chance I get for what could be the rest of my life. With a gram costing $250 here, I could have so much cool shit that I actually want. People would be impressed. I would be impressed, lol. I would still own all that stuff too! It wouldn't be smoked in less than 24 hours.

I haven't sought treatment of any kind because I'm afraid of it going on my permanent medical record. I'm afraid in the future when I need real painkillers possibly from even a car accident it will be really hard to get what I need. I've also heard that these things could go on another sort of record that potential employers could see. I just know sometimes it's hard for people to even get housing or a new job. I don't want to be in the future and have someone suddenly have doubts in me or completely not trust me over the way I was 10-20 years ago.

I can get suboxone for free from my doctor. They're use to people coming in needing help with this all the time. They wouldn't be surprised. But I am somewhat afraid of the being judges part also. I really don't want suboxone either because it has some side effects that are just as unbearable as cold turkey withdrawals. Either it doesn't make some things more manageable or it adds something like it use to be my legs were restless now it's my arms. And I feel like I can't stretch them enough. Like my bones are trying to get out of my skin. I don't think a methadone clinic exists here. You can be subscribed it but you have to have a referral specifically from a substance abuse councelor.

I will probably end up doing the suboxone program once I'm good and ready and finally hate smoking heroin with all my heart and soul and despise and can't stand it or the person I've become and when I finally can't stand spending every dime I have on literally nothing. Then I will probably end up on it because I'll be excited to do it correctly and taper off. I know someone who still does suboxone everyday just to get rid of the sniffles and probably some other aches and pains and stuff and it's been like 6 or 7 years since he's done heroin. That's not part of my plan.

What works for me coming down cold turkey is being in the bathtub. It's a pretty good distraction compared to anything else. I'll be in there for 15 or 20 minutes. Sometimes an hour or 2. But I'll be in there for 15-20 minutes like, 15 times a day. So part of my plan would be a shitload of new clean towels. Because I don't have the energy or strength to dry off when I get out I just get wrapped up and go straight back in bed. Theres no such thing as eating when I come down cold turkey but I know that if I made it to day 2 and 3 I would have to force myself to eat something. And definitely force myself to drink water. Even if it's just a spoonful of water in little sips while in the tub, or anything. Its crucial. Force yourself to do that if anything. You need to practice self discipline in little ways before your final quit day. Practice little things to remind yourself you can do anything you want to when you set your mind on it. My plan was to quit cigarettes first, because it would be easier than quitting heroin, in a way. Easier as in you don't get unbearably sick and want to put a gun to your head. It would just show me that I can do something that's important to me.

Another thing to think about is all the people who had to quit because they went to jail for a long period of time. Those people quit cold turkey. And if they stayed sober when they get out they might be pretty happy about how it all went down, looking back at it. I mean there will be suffering. But eventually it just gets better. "In about 2 weeks you'll actually start feeling like a human being again." I've heard that from someone who quit from being in jail for a year. They were someone who shot up.

I think I've said all I wanted to. Abstinence is actually my plan because it seems like the best and only way possible. As in way to get out of this addicted controlled going nowhere life I have. I've thought about this like, literally everyday.
 
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darvocet21

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Joined
May 31, 2021
Messages
4,112
Location
Greater Los Angeles
Maybe the person who said abstinence is the best way was talking about for people who don't shoot up and only smoke it..? Everyone who hears that someone does heroin assumes that they are going to overdose and die. But it's practically impossible to die from only smoking it. If its not that hard to OD smoking it then I want to know where you get your stuff, haha.

I can agree with the person saying abstinence is the best way because I don't want to replace my addiction with another. The plan was to get unaddicted. I know what the word treatment means and I know it is the best advice someone can give to someone who shoots up. Only because of the 99.9% chance they will relapse after quitting.

For those who don't shoot up and only smoke it. Abstinence sounds like a wonderful idea. But there are risks. Depending on your age you can even have a heart attack because your heart won't be able to handle the sudden changes in your body. Lots of other things could happen I imagine you could get seriously dehydrated and have to be hospitalized for that even. You have to have a plan.

You have to make your plan as solid as possible. You have to believe in it. You have to believe in yourself. You have to believe things will get better and be a lot better once you're through this.

I'm currently pretty hardcore addicted. To smoking it. I have never seriously tried quitting. But I have been developing my plan. What I'm going to do is make posters beforehand of everything that motivates me written in big print and hang them all over my walls. Things like any motivational quotes. Like literally anything that reminds me of why I need to quit, and why I want to. The posters will have lists of things to watch out for, like triggers. And I will have plans to avoid them.

Some people don't realize their addiction is also a habit. Something you've become accustom to doing everyday, like a ritual. When I was addicted to smoking oxy 80's they ran out in my tiny town and the only thing around were the unsmokable "football" 80's. My dude said only one person was buying them. Probably because everyone was actually addicted to the act of smoking it.

You can be addicted to the act of just going out to get it. Or addicted to spending money. You're going to need some supportful friends if you're trying to quit all by yourself. This might be where you realize all of your friends do drugs too. You're going to have to tell them beforehand that you're going to start trying to quit and which day. Because if they call you up needing your help getting something you're going to want to help them because they're your friend. And that will be a sudden trigger and probably justification to go get some "one more time".

When you're trying to quit and want support you might realize the only person you even interact with is your drug dealer. Part of your plan should include what happened between you and everyone who is important to you in your life and make plans to amend things. You can only do this once you've quit. You'll be a better person, guaranteed.

There are so many reasons I want to quit. I can't go on vacation because I will be sick once I get there and be sick the whole time. I can't go see a concert if I wanted to. I live in Alaska by the way. Going anywhere means going by plane. I'm always broke. I wish someone told me before I got addicted that I would be spending literally every dime to my name every chance I get for what could be the rest of my life. With a gram costing $250 here, I could have so much cool shit that I actually want. People would be impressed. I would be impressed, lol. I would still own all that stuff too! It wouldn't be smoked in less than 24 hours.

I haven't sought treatment of any kind because I'm afraid of it going on my permanent medical record. I'm afraid in the future when I need real painkillers possibly from even a car accident it will be really hard to get what I need. I've also heard that these things could go on another sort of record that potential employers could see. I just know sometimes it's hard for people to even get housing or a new job. I don't want to be in the future and have someone suddenly have doubts in me or completely not trust me over the way I was 10-20 years ago.

I can get suboxone for free from my doctor. They're use to people coming in needing help with this all the time. They wouldn't be surprised. But I am somewhat afraid of the being judges part also. I really don't want suboxone either because it has some side effects that are just as unbearable as cold turkey withdrawals. Either it doesn't make some things more manageable or it adds something like it use to be my legs were restless now it's my arms. And I feel like I can't stretch them enough. Like my bones are trying to get out of my skin. I don't think a methadone clinic exists here. You can be subscribed it but you have to have a referral specifically from a substance abuse councelor.

I will probably end up doing the suboxone program once I'm good and ready and finally hate smoking heroin with all my heart and soul and despise and can't stand it or the person I've become and when I finally can't stand spending every dime I have on literally nothing. Then I will probably end up on it because I'll be excited to do it correctly and taper off. I know someone who still does suboxone everyday just to get rid of the sniffles and probably some other aches and pains and stuff and it's been like 6 or 7 years since he's done heroin. That's not part of my plan.

What works for me coming down cold turkey is being in the bathtub. It's a pretty good distraction compared to anything else. I'll be in there for 15 or 20 minutes. Sometimes an hour or 2. But I'll be in there for 15-20 minutes like, 15 times a day. So part of my plan would be a shitload of new clean towels. Because I don't have the energy or strength to dry off when I get out I just get wrapped up and go straight back in bed. Theres no such thing as eating when I come down cold turkey but I know that if I made it to day 2 and 3 I would have to force myself to eat something. And definitely force myself to drink water. Even if it's just a spoonful of water in little sips while in the tub, or anything. Its crucial. Force yourself to do that if anything. You need to practice self discipline in little ways before your final quit day. Practice little things to remind yourself you can do anything you want to when you set your mind on it. My plan was to quit cigarettes first, because it would be easier than quitting heroin, in a way. Easier as in you don't get unbearably sick and want to put a gun to your head. It would just show me that I can do something that's important to me.

I think I've said all I wanted to. Abstinence is actually my plan because it seems like the best and only way possible. As in way to get out of this addicted controlled going nowhere life I have. I've thought about this like, literally everyday.
I've spent many an hour coming off strong opioids in the bath, I'm a veteran of bathtubs. Hot water is Heavensent. Yet another good reason I rcan't afford another hardcore habit is I don't have a bathtub, only a shower.
 
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