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Suboxone not taking withdrawals away!! Please help?

AztoCali

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 9, 2021
Messages
10
Hello, hopefully this is posted to right place if not my apologies I am pretty new here. I just got off of an 8 month long strong poppy tea daily usage. I just started suboxone about 24 hours ago. I was in FULL withdrawal and waited over 24 hours. The sub never made me feel worse just not better like I hadn’t even taken anything. I have used subs a LOT in the past including for a hefty black tar habit about 10 years ago and it AWAYS took away 100% of my withdrawals with 8 mg or less. In the last 24 hours I have gradually taken almost 16mg because the hot flushes and stomach pain and restlessness is torture and no matter how much I take those things do not go away. It is NOT precipitated withdrawal at all I am actually at work right now kind of functioning but also in a great amount of pain and sweating profusely while also being bone chilling cold and not able to sit still. Only thing sub took away was my runny nose. Was my tea stronger than heroin?!? Why aren’t subs working when they always have in the past for way harder drugs/habits. Please give me insight as to if and when the sub will take over my receptors and make me feel normal or will it just never work? This sucks going to take a little Kratom after work but that probably won’t help much either. What I am hoping is that in a day or 2 I’ll feel normal when I take my suboxone and not feel any withdrawal at all. Has anyone had this experience at all??? Thank you in advance!!
 

G_Chem

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
4,216
Hey welcome to BL.

So quick question, are you taking name brand strips or generic like Dr Reddy or Alvogen? I ask cuz both myself and others I know have noticed major differences between brand name and some of the generics. There’s actually quite a bit of anecdotal and research based info on this.

Otherwise… Subs for me never fully took away WD. They just made life bareable enough to quit. I was also shooting some pretty pure heroin and oxy for a number of years too but I remember first couple days feeling like WD just less intense.

-GC
 

negrogesic

Moderator: BDD, OD
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Messages
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Negronesia
Poppy seed tea or poppy pod tea? Not that it matters much.

The alkaloid profile in either is complex, so the spectrum of poppy withdrawal symptoms is much wider and more complex than other withdrawal syndromes. This means its harder to treat. When you are in poppy withdrawal you're in more than opioid withdrawal, you're in withdrawal from all the minor alkaloids as well which have a wide variety of action, antispasmodics, sigma agonists, dopamine agonists, all kinds of activities etc. This could be significantly contributing to the restlessness and stomach issues

So unfortunately, it may be that the buprenorphine won't fully cover it, at least not for a bit
 

AztoCali

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 9, 2021
Messages
10
Hey welcome to BL.

So quick question, are you taking name brand strips or generic like Dr Reddy or Alvogen? I ask cuz both myself and others I know have noticed major differences between brand name and some of the generics. There’s actually quite a bit of anecdotal and research based info on this.

Otherwise… Subs for me never fully took away WD. They just made life bareable enough to quit. I was also shooting some pretty pure heroin and oxy for a number of years too but I remember first couple days feeling like WD just less intense.

-GC
Holy crap you’re right I got the generic Dr Reddys and I have extreme hot flushes and cannot get comfortable I read the case study from Cambridge about this particular one just now and this is what’s happening I think. I just emailed my doctor and I pray she can switch out my script to brand name or subutex because today at work I took 4mg and got rapid heartbeat and thought I was going to legit die praying and everything. Suboxone has never done this before and I have 0 relief it’s like I’m getting the naloxone but no bupe it’s a sick twisted thing. I read it could be due to acidic saliva so maybe if I did salt water to raise ph first it would make the bupe active. I also heard to you extract the bupe from the naloxone not sure how to do that but I REALLY want to sleep tonight and cannot bare another repeat like today at work. Thank you so much for your reply.
 

G_Chem

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
4,216
Holy crap you’re right I got the generic Dr Reddys and I have extreme hot flushes and cannot get comfortable I read the case study from Cambridge about this particular one just now and this is what’s happening I think. I just emailed my doctor and I pray she can switch out my script to brand name or subutex because today at work I took 4mg and got rapid heartbeat and thought I was going to legit die praying and everything. Suboxone has never done this before and I have 0 relief it’s like I’m getting the naloxone but no bupe it’s a sick twisted thing. I read it could be due to acidic saliva so maybe if I did salt water to raise ph first it would make the bupe active. I also heard to you extract the bupe from the naloxone not sure how to do that but I REALLY want to sleep tonight and cannot bare another repeat like today at work. Thank you so much for your reply.

Yup exactly what happens to me, Dr Reddys is fucking poison and still surprised they have it on the market.. I don’t go through a doc at the moment but get them through a friend, he was having nasty symptoms but didn’t put it together that it was the generics. I sent him some anecdotal reports as well as a case study on some guy that started having WD symptoms after switching from brand name to generic. His doctor then was able to make his insurance cover name brand, which in turn helped me out.

Unfortunately I don’t know how to make them work well, I’m honestly not even sure it’s a naloxone issue. It could be impurities in the buprenorphine from shitty Indian labs or any number of things. I was going to try an extraction but since I’ve now got brand name I’ve decided not worth my trouble.

Do you get any weird head pressure or headaches? That’s what both me and my friend also dealt with, as well they just didn’t work right. I can take 4x the amount in generic and still not feel like it covers those bases we need covered as opiate users. Weird stuff.

I wish I had better answer than that, even if there were some extraction it probably wouldn’t be ready by tonight :/ You got any comfort meds like benzodiazepines or gabapentinoids? Anything to get through til your doc can help you out. I know every doc is different but I’ve had some that are open and willing to give and try different formulations.

Keep us updated on how it goes for ya!
-GC
 

negrogesic

Moderator: BDD, OD
Staff member
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Messages
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Location
Negronesia
Yup exactly what happens to me, Dr Reddys is fucking poison and still surprised they have it on the market.. I don’t go through a doc at the moment but get them through a friend, he was having nasty symptoms but didn’t put it together that it was the generics. I sent him some anecdotal reports as well as a case study on some guy that started having WD symptoms after switching from brand name to generic. His doctor then was able to make his insurance cover name brand, which in turn helped me out.

Unfortunately I don’t know how to make them work well, I’m honestly not even sure it’s a naloxone issue. It could be impurities in the buprenorphine from shitty Indian labs or any number of things. I was going to try an extraction but since I’ve now got brand name I’ve decided not worth my trouble.

Do you get any weird head pressure or headaches? That’s what both me and my friend also dealt with, as well they just didn’t work right. I can take 4x the amount in generic and still not feel like it covers those bases we need covered as opiate users. Weird stuff.

I wish I had better answer than that, even if there were some extraction it probably wouldn’t be ready by tonight :/ You got any comfort meds like benzodiazepines or gabapentinoids? Anything to get through til your doc can help you out. I know every doc is different but I’ve had some that are open and willing to give and try different formulations.

Keep us updated on how it goes for ya!
-GC

Out of curiosity any idea as to the origins of the differences in the generic quality? I have noticed alvogen making substandard drugs, but with their dextroamphetamine (they make a low quality dextroamphetamine). Don't have much experience with buprenorphine, not sure what makes for bad bupe beyond dosing.
 

G_Chem

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
4,216
Out of curiosity any idea as to the origins of the differences in the generic quality? I have noticed alvogen making substandard drugs, but with their dextroamphetamine (they make a low quality dextroamphetamine). Don't have much experience with buprenorphine, not sure what makes for bad bupe beyond dosing.

To be honest I’m not sure… I’ve noticed myself a difference between brand name Adderall and generic. I wasn’t even aware I’d been given the brand name one time recently and was surprised at how strong my normal 10mg dose was, thought my tolerance went down until my brother mentioned it was name brand and how he’d felt a difference too.

I wonder if maybe there’s a added ingredient many of these generics add that brand names know better than to add. When I looked at the ingredients list for Suboxone vs Dr Reddy generic there’s a large number of different or added compounds which could cause issues.

Or the brand name labs just produce better purity drugs..

For instance with generic buprenorphine I’ve tried I think 3-4 different brands and they ALL feel like they can’t hold a candle to Suboxone brand name. Each one varied in their shittyness and the only one that came close was Alvogen but still had the crappy side effects I hate.

Mainly with these generics I’ll feel muscle weakness, lack of motivation, hot flushes/chills, nasty pressure headache which usually hits hardest at the onset, pretty much like I’m in WD but yet I still have this heavy opiate like high just with none of the good stuff I actually use opiates for.

Id love to figure this out one day cuz I’ll bet quite a few folks have gone back dope with how shit these generics can be.

-GC
 

negrogesic

Moderator: BDD, OD
Staff member
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Messages
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Negronesia
To be honest I’m not sure… I’ve noticed myself a difference between brand name Adderall and generic. I wasn’t even aware I’d been given the brand name one time recently and was surprised at how strong my normal 10mg dose was, thought my tolerance went down until my brother mentioned it was name brand and how he’d felt a difference too.

I wonder if maybe there’s a added ingredient many of these generics add that brand names know better than to add. When I looked at the ingredients list for Suboxone vs Dr Reddy generic there’s a large number of different or added compounds which could cause issues.

Or the brand name labs just produce better purity drugs..

For instance with generic buprenorphine I’ve tried I think 3-4 different brands and they ALL feel like they can’t hold a candle to Suboxone brand name. Each one varied in their shittyness and the only one that came close was Alvogen but still had the crappy side effects I hate.

Mainly with these generics I’ll feel muscle weakness, lack of motivation, hot flushes/chills, nasty pressure headache which usually hits hardest at the onset, pretty much like I’m in WD but yet I still have this heavy opiate like high just with none of the good stuff I actually use opiates for.

Id love to figure this out one day cuz I’ll bet quite a few folks have gone back dope with how shit these generics can be.

-GC

Perhaps it's also a matter of synthesis impurities. You have two chances here, buprenorphine synthesis impurities and naloxone impurities. This describes some genotoxic traits of one of them:

"A 7-day dietary palatability study in rats, a subacute 28 day dietary toxicity study in rats and associated mutagenicity studies have also been completed in order to investigate the potential toxicity and genotoxicity of synthesis impurities and degradants of Suboxone. Synthesis impurity D (7,8-didehydronaloxone) present in naloxone was found clastogenic in vitro
studies with human lymphocytes. The proposed specification limit of 7,8-didehydronaloxone will result in exposure below the Threshold of Toxicological Concern (TTC) of 1.5 µg/day which is recommended for setting acceptable daily intake limits of genotoxic impurities by the EU Draft Guideline on the Limits of Genotoxic Impurities (CHMP/SWP/5199/02).
A series of other synthesis impurities and degradants was reviewed for structure-activity relationship and were reported to be devoid of structural alerts. However, the process used to determine alerting structures was not fully clear and needed further clarification.
"

I bet they were looking more for this sort of toxicity than than aberrant pharmacological activity (like say an orally active naloxone impurity). Given the potent nature of these bentley compounds perhaps some minor impurity has antagonistic properties in the microgram range.

Also this found 17 different impurities:


Sorry, not trying to derail the thread!
 

jamesBrown

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
2,711
For instance with generic buprenorphine I’ve tried I think 3-4 different brands and they ALL feel like they can’t hold a candle to Suboxone brand name. Each one varied in their shittyness and the only one that came close was Alvogen but still had the crappy side effects I hate.

Mainly with these generics I’ll feel muscle weakness, lack of motivation, hot flushes/chills, nasty pressure headache which usually hits hardest at the onset, pretty much like I’m in WD but yet I still have this heavy opiate like high just with none of the good stuff I actually use opiates for.

Id love to figure this out one day cuz I’ll bet quite a few folks have gone back dope with how shit these generics can be.

-GC

Hey I'm just starting to use Alvogen brand 8/2 strips today after being an H addict for many years(~ 1 g/day IV). I have an EXTREMELY high opioid tolerance... it's been years since I've gotten any kind of euphoria from anything. If I understand you correctly you're saying that Alvogen brand strips are, in your experience, the closest off-brand bupe strips to brand name suboxone in terms of quality/effectiveness?

Also, I am horrible at waiting 24+ hrs until I take my first bupe dose. It's been about 24-30 hrs since I last shot up H & about 12 hrs since I took 150 mgs tramadol. I just took 0.5 mgs bupe sublingual and am hoping to keep taking ~ 0.5 mgs every couple hrs until it starts helping my withdrawals while avoiding PW's. Do you think that will work?

It's been about 10 minutes since I took 0.5 mgs bupe and I feel no effect in any way. I'm still pretty sick.
 

VerbalTruist

Sr. Moderator: DC, H&R, MH
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You should take more than .5mgs. If your tolerance is huge try 4mg.
 

jamesBrown

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
2,711
You should take more than .5mgs. If your tolerance is huge try 4mg.
Were you replying to me? I'm guessing you are since the OP didn't mention taking only 0.5 mgs of bupe like I did.
The reason I planned on taking 0.5 mgs at a time every couple hours until relief was to prevent severe PW's. And I was hoping somebody would have some knowledge about that. I find it impossible to wait 24+ hrs to take my first bupe dose so I figured if I only take 0.2 - 0.5 mgs at a time it would ease me into my bupe induction and if I did end up having PW's they would be relatively minor and last a short period of time.
Any thoughts?
 

Livinclean

Greenlighter
Joined
Nov 5, 2021
Messages
1
This may sound crazy but it worked for me. Try Imodium!!!
I don’t mean a little to help with the stomach issues associated with WD’s, like take 5 at a time (10mg) & increase by 2-4mg until WD’s subside.
I was clean for 2 years & replaced on Roxi’s, I was snorting around 90mg day & had to get clean.
I used this method to help until I get into the Suboxone clinic which at the time couldn’t see me for like 5-6 days.
When I went to the clinic the doc almost didn’t believe me since I didn’t fail the drug screen for opiates & I wasn’t showing any WD symptoms.
Fortunately for me, I told him what I had been doing & he had heard of this before & he believed me.
Here is a link that may help. The 2nd link specifically discusses the Imodium trick.
Basically Imodium is a partial Antagonist sort of like Suboxone but not exactly. I never WD from Imodium like i did with Subs.


 
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