Hexagon Sun
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Negro, you probably know, but bpc157 and tb500 peptides, injected locally, are said to be almost a miracle healing for tendons/joints...
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SIED Moderators: Genetic Freak | Serotonin101
Taking testosterone for reasons other than getting bigger or stronger
- Thread starter negrogesic
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Yeah i heard bpc157 had some worrisome sides. Specifically worrisome are the reports of psychiatric side-effects, namely anxiety
Not familiar with tb500
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Worth noting that its now 3:44am and I haven't gotten wink of sleep, and it is absolutely due to that 100mg of testosterone i rubbed on my shoulders and balls.
And I have to be at a work related meeting at 8:00am this morning so i guess im not sleeping. I would imagine the insomnia will die down, plus i didn't lift today.
Granted i have terrible insomnia in general.
And I have to be at a work related meeting at 8:00am this morning so i guess im not sleeping. I would imagine the insomnia will die down, plus i didn't lift today.
Granted i have terrible insomnia in general.
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Two points, due to negative feedback its highly likely the effects will reduce over time, you may wish to consider the option of only using the gel intermittently, following the protocol ive mentioned previously around inhibiting CYP3A4. If used infrequently, only when absolutely necessary you may avoid negative feedback.
Yes, its also likely responsible for the insomnia, thats why concurrent use might not be your best option..
You have previously stated you have high blood plasma testosterone, if you are not experiencing positive benefits currently, I might be inclined to look at altering lifestyle factors... Inhibiting CYP3A4, and CYP19A1 would be a start...
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I might be inclined to think you have used too higher dose, and that a reduction could help.. Titrate the dose until insomnia is no longer present..
As previously stated, use only when necessary..
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Interesting idea. If I understand correctly do you mean using testosterone only occasionally on a as needed basis, accompanied by certain P450 inhibitors to prolong blood levels? I thought some P450 inhibitors like cimetidine were actually antiandrogenic (though perhaps induce upregulation at low doses, akin to low dose naltrexone)
By concurrent use do you mean daily use?
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In answer to your questions: Yes, only use when necessary, for anxiolytic/anti depressant effects, as you already have high testosterone.
Accompanied with dietary/lifestyle interventions to reduce only two P450 enzymes:
CYP3A4 (grapefruit, whole, not juice).. Reduce testosterone metabolism (breakdown)
CYP19A1 (reduce adipose tissue).. Reduce estrogen production..
Concurrent: Don't use every day as you could compromise your already high natural testosterone..
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Well I've been using it more.
Overall, not so sure it does a whole lot insofar as reducing my baseline anxiety. In fact, in some ways it increases anxiety. But in other ways it seems to decrease it, most notably in regard to social anxiety. It also seems to have a "fear" or apprehension reducing effect.
For example, I have these squirrels that come around my house, who I feed. Some of them trust me and I'm able to feed them by hand, but I've never tried to actually touch or pet them out of fear they wouldn't understand my intentions and bite me in self-defense. But the other day -- 2 hours after applying 100mg of testosterone to my scrotum -- after handing a squirrel a walnut, I suddenly reached out and pet the squirrel (which kind of surprised me since it was definitely unplanned and almost involuntary in a way, very spontaneous). Then I realized, "oh shit, it must be the testosterone gel i put on my balls".
I have mostly been applying the gel directly to my scrotum since I had read that this has vastly higher bioavailability than when applied to other areas. Supposedly when applying to the scrotum, testosterone gas close to 50% bioavailability according to some literature.
Problem is, the dose appeared to be too high when applied "trans-scrotally". Assuming 50% bioavailability, 100mg of testosterone gel on the scrotum could yield 50mg of systemic testosterone a day, which is a pretty high dose. Even worse, the enzyme (5a-reductase) that converts testosterone to the more potent androgen dihydrotestosterone is very prevalent in skin, particularly the skin of the scrotum, so my DHT levels were likely through the roof.
When I was applying 100mg/day to my balls I noticed a spike in blood pressure, decrease in sex drive and even some mild erectile dysfunction (in the form of weaker than normal erections). However when applied to the shoulders (as is directed) I notice the opposite. And when I was applying it to my balls, it made me irritable and impatient with my girlfriend. Yet when applied to my shoulders, I'm uncharacteristically nice and patient with her (moreso than I am normally).
Overall, the biggest problem is very noticeable hairloss, despite only a few weeks of time using it, which is distressing because, despite my naturally high testosterone throughout life, I have a pretty decent amount of hair (which suggests that my internal 5a-reductase activity must be fairly low and thus don't convert much of my endogenous testosterone to DHT). But when applied to the skin, exogenous testosterone converts to DHT at significantly higher rates than what is associated with IM testosterone. Thus if I continue with testosterone therapy it can't be in gel form.
So in short, testosterone doesn't seem to really reduce my anxiety much. In certain ways it increases it, especially when the dose is too high. However, I am considering continuing it for other reasons, most notably a very noticeable increase in energy, and perhaps a slight antidepressant effect.
Overall, not so sure it does a whole lot insofar as reducing my baseline anxiety. In fact, in some ways it increases anxiety. But in other ways it seems to decrease it, most notably in regard to social anxiety. It also seems to have a "fear" or apprehension reducing effect.
For example, I have these squirrels that come around my house, who I feed. Some of them trust me and I'm able to feed them by hand, but I've never tried to actually touch or pet them out of fear they wouldn't understand my intentions and bite me in self-defense. But the other day -- 2 hours after applying 100mg of testosterone to my scrotum -- after handing a squirrel a walnut, I suddenly reached out and pet the squirrel (which kind of surprised me since it was definitely unplanned and almost involuntary in a way, very spontaneous). Then I realized, "oh shit, it must be the testosterone gel i put on my balls".
I have mostly been applying the gel directly to my scrotum since I had read that this has vastly higher bioavailability than when applied to other areas. Supposedly when applying to the scrotum, testosterone gas close to 50% bioavailability according to some literature.
Problem is, the dose appeared to be too high when applied "trans-scrotally". Assuming 50% bioavailability, 100mg of testosterone gel on the scrotum could yield 50mg of systemic testosterone a day, which is a pretty high dose. Even worse, the enzyme (5a-reductase) that converts testosterone to the more potent androgen dihydrotestosterone is very prevalent in skin, particularly the skin of the scrotum, so my DHT levels were likely through the roof.
When I was applying 100mg/day to my balls I noticed a spike in blood pressure, decrease in sex drive and even some mild erectile dysfunction (in the form of weaker than normal erections). However when applied to the shoulders (as is directed) I notice the opposite. And when I was applying it to my balls, it made me irritable and impatient with my girlfriend. Yet when applied to my shoulders, I'm uncharacteristically nice and patient with her (moreso than I am normally).
Overall, the biggest problem is very noticeable hairloss, despite only a few weeks of time using it, which is distressing because, despite my naturally high testosterone throughout life, I have a pretty decent amount of hair (which suggests that my internal 5a-reductase activity must be fairly low and thus don't convert much of my endogenous testosterone to DHT). But when applied to the skin, exogenous testosterone converts to DHT at significantly higher rates than what is associated with IM testosterone. Thus if I continue with testosterone therapy it can't be in gel form.
So in short, testosterone doesn't seem to really reduce my anxiety much. In certain ways it increases it, especially when the dose is too high. However, I am considering continuing it for other reasons, most notably a very noticeable increase in energy, and perhaps a slight antidepressant effect.
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It's very subtle dosage wise - if you feel anxious then take less - inject a smaller amount every day or every other day. Then see how you feel for a week or two. Just carry on adjusting your dose till you hit the sweet spot.
But it's not a magic bullet - you are still the same you thinking the same thoughts. I think test does give you an extra hardiness or resistance to pressure tho.
And btw, 50mg a day is Mr Olympia type dosing. Try 5-10mg a day.
But it's not a magic bullet - you are still the same you thinking the same thoughts. I think test does give you an extra hardiness or resistance to pressure tho.
And btw, 50mg a day is Mr Olympia type dosing. Try 5-10mg a day.
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What symptoms have you noticed from too high a dose of testosterone? I seemed to feel a tightness in the chest, like symptoms of physical anxiety with 100mg applied to the scrotum.
Too high a dose is just unpleasant stimulation, so you cant sleep. It might not just be the effects of the test - taking big doses mean more will be test will be converted into eastrogen. Have you noticed your nipples getting hard?
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Two points: I was of the opinion testosterone cream when applied to the skin only has about 7% bioavailability..
DHT conversion via 5-alpha reductase primarily takes place in scalp, liver and prostate, this action of conversion takes place intracellularly, we know from the literature IM bioavailability exceeds transdermal by a large percentage. Therefore we might conclude your above statement is incorrect regards transdermal V IM conversion...
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"Disproportionate increases [compared to injection] in serum DHT are reported after administration of all transdermal testosterone products with the higher DHT/T ratio attributable to the strong expression of 5-alpha reductase in skin structures which foster the conversion of testosterone to DHT during transdermal passage. Furthermore androgens induce greater expression of the 5α reductase enzyme whereby administration of an androgen directly onto the skin creates a feed-forward (positive feedback) mechanism (Russell & Wilson, 1994; McNamara et al., 2013)."
Cardiovascular risks and elevation of serum DHT vary by route of testosterone administration: a systematic review and meta-analysis
Potential cardiovascular (CV) risks of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) are currently a topic of intense interest. However, no studies have addressed CV risk as a function of the route of administration of TRT.Two meta-analyses were conducted, one ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Transdermal testosterone therapy in the treatment of male hypogonadism - PubMed
Five hypogonadal men were treated with transdermal testosterone therapy, using a testosterone patch applied to the scrotal skin. Daily application of the patch, which contained 10 mg testosterone, produced an increase in serum testosterone concentrations from a pretreatment value of 45 +/- 12...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
About testosterone applied to the scrotum. There's more research than this on the subject, but in essence, testosterone applied to the scrotum has multifold absorption over the standard 8-14% associated with upper body application, requiring much smaller doses to produce a similar effect.
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In any event, I've decided I'm going to switch to intramuscular (I have a prescriber lined up now).
Will start at 150mg/week, divided into perhaps 3 doses.
The only thing I'm slightly sketched out about (with regard to the place I'm getting it from) is that they won't give you a script to fill at your local pharmacy. Instead it is shipped from a compounding pharmacy. I'd rather get a brand name vial from a standard pharmacy.
Oddly the thing I like about it wasn't what I aiming to get out of it: a significant energy boost. That and a sort of nootropic-like cognitive enhancement. Subtle but noticeable. I imagine things like an antidepressant and anxiolytic effect might be more apparent if you are starting from low or truly deficient testosterone levels, like 250ng/dl, etc.
Will start at 150mg/week, divided into perhaps 3 doses.
The only thing I'm slightly sketched out about (with regard to the place I'm getting it from) is that they won't give you a script to fill at your local pharmacy. Instead it is shipped from a compounding pharmacy. I'd rather get a brand name vial from a standard pharmacy.
Oddly the thing I like about it wasn't what I aiming to get out of it: a significant energy boost. That and a sort of nootropic-like cognitive enhancement. Subtle but noticeable. I imagine things like an antidepressant and anxiolytic effect might be more apparent if you are starting from low or truly deficient testosterone levels, like 250ng/dl, etc.
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Joey
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How do you go about getting something like this prescribed? I’m already on the upper end of average in testosterone levels, and I know how to maintain a proper diet and exercise. My motivation levels are okay, but I’d like a bit of oomph if you know what I mean. This is only semi-serious, just thinking out loud.
What do I do? Just family doc request?
Joey
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Interesting. It appears to be decent stuff and easy to source.
Are there any more holistic or herbal methods to boosting testosterone and energy levels you know of outside of the anabolic steroid class? I’m receptive to either or, in theory. Just wondering.
Conky
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I would say regular cardio and weight lifting 3-4 days a week plus avoiding opiates and meth binges would improve your energy levels and possibly testosterone but I doubt that. Usually guys your age that boost testosterone naturally were fat or obese then get to a healthy weight and build some muscle. There is also HCG which is a hormone women produce when pregnant. When men take it, it causes the testicles to produce testosterone and sperm even if taking tons of steroids.