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The Big and Dandy 4-HO-DMT Thread

Xorkoth

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This thread is for pure 4-HO-DMT (psilocin), NOT mushrooms. For mushrooms, go to The Big and Dandy Psilocybin Mushrooms Thread.




I know this stuff is on the market now. Has anyone started experimenting with it? When I obtain a sample soon, I'll post some trials.

If anyone has tried it yet, please post up something, no matter how little you have to say.
 
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PippUK

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Coming soon . . .

A good friend of mine has experimented with it over the weekend. He got hold of it himself and eyeballed it. (He couldn't wait to borrow my scales). He explained that he had judged the quantity by comparrison to a weighed quantity of 4AcO-DMT which I had previously weighed out for him. Only he wanted to go deeper so he put a 'little' more of the 4HO in his cuppa. His dose must have been at least 20+mg. Needless to say he was blown away and his experience has left him somewhat shaken. He had what he said was a wonderfull experience to start with, and then at the 5 hour mark he started getting jittery, with an uncomfortably high heart rate and the sensations of explosive rushes hitting him in his head and neck. After 6 hours he was back together again. He was so shaken that he has sworn off RCs for a good while.
The only upside to this is that I have now inherited his stash (I am swapping it for some greenery. This consists of just under a gram of Psilocin and a gram of AET. I have used neither of these before, so I am looking forward to giving them a go. I just feel sorry for my pal, but as I told him, discretion is the better part of valour, so I will be approaching both with caution. I will write a report once I have given it a go. My friend would only say that it was very 'different' to 4AcO, which may be partly on account of the unknowable dose he gave himself. . .
 

Jabberwocky

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the stuff that is available is the fumarate, so it will probably have a higher dosage than historically listed doses of psilocin (which probably weren't the fumarate?).

Leary, (and et. al, whoever that guy is, he's everywhere helping people) administered 60mg of psilocin to people for peak experiences.

edit - lest I be mistaken for endorsing 60mg doses, let me be clear, that this would probably be a HUGE psychological overdose for most people...I believe the best dosage to start with will be 8-12mg, perhaps higher if you are very comfortable with fourth position T's. I'll be careful with this one it probably definitely has the ability to ASS KICK.
 

Jabberwocky

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Oh...now I'm on a mission to find out what form the sandoz psilocin was in the 60s...bc possibly we could find the shelf life of it with that info...

The fumarate available will probably have a longer shelf life but how long is the question? One does not want this precious substance to degrade before being able to wrap a human brain around it.
 

PippUK

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I'm hoping that a glass vial in the deep freeze will help it keep for a little while, at least until I get a day off work when I've got a decent quantity of weed (My comfort blanket when going loco).
 

Morninggloryseed

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Should be fine. I have other 4-hydroxylated tryptamines that I've had stored in glass vials in the freezer for years now. Never any degrading...slight color change in some but no potency loss.
 

Jabberwocky

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cool, I may not be able to store it in freezer, you know about my paranoia (hence the burying of compounds on the north (shady) side of a mountain).
 

yoyoman

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at http://www.maps.org (was on the TV news, newspapers etc) the FDA approved study with psilocybin i think they used 30mg which gave 80% of the participants mystical experiences.

The one time (.. in this thread somewhere) I took 250mg 4-aco-dmt, "I" think "I" ceased to exist before any fear could come over me - just shut the lights off got in bed and ... never noticed a transition it came so fast.

I know with 4-AcO-DMT fumarate it was perfectly stable dissolved in a plastic water bottle w/water for days. Wierd that for example a little 4-AcO-MiPT HCl starts to turn brown in just a couple hours in a small amount of water, when I added more than enough NaOH (xxmg's dont remember, purposely like 4x more than enough to get rid of the acetoxy and the 2xfumarate's) to dh20 then mixed in maybe 30mg's 4-AcO-DMT it started turning blue slowly then more like a darkish blue/green. I let it get to that point then dumped it into some juice (acetic, stop the decomposition) drank it down (psilocin degration products outta that produced a wierd trip)

It would be interesting to take ... 20mg or so of this psilocin fumarate add it to a vial with distilled water and see what happens. Maybe the fumarate (i dont know how you'd say it, 1:1 , technically you'd only need one fumarate per 2 psilocin molecules, ..i think thats right) is .... just more stable but i dont know why?

Well anyway a test like that could sorta show whether its the fumarate salt thats making it so stable (my guess, 4-AcO-otherthings turn color in water fast) or the acetoxy really makes that much difference.
 

psood0nym

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4-ho-NMT and 4-ho-DMT

T+0: drink 10mg 4-ho-NMT in lemon juice
T+20min: Feel “off”
T+1hr: insufflate 5mg more of 4-ho-NMT
T+1:08: Definitely feel something, but only a generic tryptamine head buzz and nothing more.
T+1:30-1:45: insufflate 8mgs of pure white 4-ho-DMT over 15 minutes.
T+1:50: This is a hard-edged onset.
T+2hrs: A lot of manic energy. I get little bursts of goofy laughter and feel compulsions to move my arms and legs in strange jerky movements and roll my head (like the way one might feel compelled to yawn). Sparks could shoot out of me at any second. Slight tearing. This is a lot of fun.

I stopped keeping time at this point and watched a Twin Peaks episode. The material is powerfully empathetic. The terrifying parts of the episode are damn nearly traumatic; the sincere, spiritual stuff makes me tear up. I feel so touched at times my chest aches. It’s impossible to know how much influence the 4-ho-NMT (a possible metabolite of baeocystin) had on the 4-ho-DMT at this point, but the experince was wild.

The combination of the two together is similar in its effects to 4-AcO-DMT but significantly quicker, more wandering, and chaotic. If 4-AcO-DMT is like a whirlpool, fully capable of spinning me into the depths, but possessing a constant form and predictable flow that makes it navigable, then 4-ho-NMT/4-ho-DMT is like bounding between neighborhood pools--naked and screaming--making exhuberant swan dives, backflips, and canonballs into each one.

I was mostly down 2.5-3hrs after insufflation, but I was so charged with vital energy I couldn’t get to sleep for about 2hrs after I normally could have, even with the aid of sleeping pills. This is a wild one. Take it slow.
 
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yoyoman

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^^^ whoa i was waiting for a report with 4-ho-NMT...

was your balance off at all? well anyway i had hoped *-nmt in the very rare WILD (in a good way but deeper) mushrooms i've had a couple times was the reason (well partly). only 8mg 4-ho-DMT, hmm.. i'll shut up & wait for more info, maybe a little/big n dandy 4-ho-nmt thread will show up soon.
 

Jabberwocky

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perhaps the 4-ho-NMT will be tested somehow (other than bioassay of course). It is a tannish brown right now...I wonder if it has already degraded?
 

yoyoman

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morninggloryseed said:
I wonder if 4-Ho-NMT is really active at all...I'd have thought that dose would do more (since baeocystin is active at 10mg).

Well all we have to go on is "10mg is active" (or did he say fully active etc), doesn't really leave much to go on, dose probably too low (assuming the freebase) and "similar to psilocybin" (i forget how it was said just no real details),

If baeocystin is active on its own (4-phosphoryloxy-*) differently than the hydroxy, well i kinda guess that just like the acetoxy versions, the phosphoryloxy's are like different drugs too - i'm not sure i buy into the idea that 4-PO has to get changed into a 4-HO before its active.. whether scientific guesses this or that no way to know unless its tried. The 4-PO-N,N,N-TMT trimethyl ammonium salt supposedly impossible to be active / get into the brain, although Dr. Gartz (from experience) thinks otherwise - the mushrooms most different and unique, "special" happen to have more of the N,N,N-TMT compound in them (starts with an a.. cant think of it)

Could easily be tested using a little 4-AcO-DMT and simple chemistry/few hours (like 95% yield).
 

psood0nym

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yoyoman said:
Well all we have to go on is "10mg is active" (or did he say fully active etc), doesn't really leave much to go on, dose probably too low (assuming the freebase) and "similar to psilocybin" (i forget how it was said just no real details),
At 10mg oral + 5mg insufflated I felt a "generic tryptamine head buzz" from the 4-ho-NMT. There's really not much to say. I also noticed some distortions in the periphery of my vision, but none of this was like mushrooms at all. I do think there would be visuals for me at around 20mgs, but please start lower than that. Also, any links to baeocystin info would be appreciated. I only know of a vague blurb that suggests it's "entheogenic" at 10mg. Do you have information that suggests it's a fully fleshed out psychedelic alone?

Also, "only 8mg of 4-ho-DMT"? I was going off of Shulgin's dose in Tihkal where he describes 10mg orally as "a little frightening, almost too exciting, after the gentleness of other substances". I am guessing that 8mg insufflated is approximately equal in intensity to about 12mg oral (+50 percent), and that's on top of 15mg of 4-ho-NMT (btw mine is a light greyish tan). If my scale was off enough to so seriously over register the 4-ho-NMT I shouldn't have felt as much as I did when it came to the 4-ho-DMT, so I don't think that's the case.
 
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egor

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wow, this thread got a lot more interesting since I was on bl last a few days ago. I gotta check in more often.
 

MagickalKat777

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Can I ask why you insufflated them when, at least for psilocin, they're plenty active orally?

Either way, I want to see more reports on psilocin... Mushrooms quite frankly scare the crap out of me and every time I eat them, I feel like I'm poisoned for hours after the trip subsides... it would be interesting to take the pure substance and see how differently it agrees with me.
 

Jabberwocky

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Marquis Reactions

The 4-HO-DMT reacted with marquis reagent with a deep olive green/brown, which developed over 10 minutes into a forest green.

The 4-HO-NMT reacted with marquis reagent with a rusty (almost reddish) brown, which developed over 10 minutes toward a dark olive green/dark brown.

Stimulation results from 2mg oral ingestion of the 4-HO-DMT; a state that is not unlike low dose amphetamine.
 

MagickalKat777

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I understand that part Delsyd... but it just seems like its not really needed. And it modifies the experience, making comparisons to oral administration moot in most cases.
 
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