The Big & Dandy 1P-LSD Thread, Volume 1

[iLLCiD]

I'm surprised everyone jump right to prodrug speculation. I would assume that it would be metabolized into a hydroxyl group or maybe active on it's own, ether way I'd like to see 1 phosphoryl-LSD. It seems like a cool molecule.

 

[Doldrugs]

I would assume that it would be metabolized into a hydroxyl group or maybe active on it's own

Why?

 

[jason7]

First, The onset of LSD can be anything from 10 minutes to 1 hour, I've even tried up to 2 hours for real effects.
And duration can be anything between 6 and 12 hours, with varying batches.

Why this is so isn't to be discussed here, because this topic has its own threads (and everybody has their own opinions about it, from polymorphism to set and setting)

Point is, we can't extrapolate anything what so ever from Si ingwe having had a 10 min come up once.......

I think that what we will see with 1-P-LSD vs LSD, is the same phenomenon we've seen with 4-AcO-DMT vs 4-HO-DMT.
Some people will swear they are feeling distinct subjective differences in the trip, while other people will feel that they are virtually indistinguishable. This also seems to have been the case with ALD-52 in the 60'ies.

jason7, it would be nice if you could supply a source for your quote.

I did give the patent number. I figured poeople could search that out easily enough, but apparently a mod did that for the lazy people and added the link to the bottom of my post. You won't find the text exactly as I gave it unless you view scans of the original patent because the text versions are all OCR and have errors in them. I corrected the errors in the part that I quoted so it matches the text in the scans.

Regarding it being a prodrug for LSD, Hofmann didn't mention that in the patent. Though the propionylamide wasn't specifically mentioned either, it would seem to be entirely anaguous to the others mentioned. You would require either a strong alkali like sodium or potassium hydroxide at room temperature or a weak alkili like sodium carbonate with heat to hydrolyze it. Stomach acid apparently doesn't do it. It also appears that Nichols was simply wrong when he said it would be inactive because it doesn't fit the receptor. Nichols is not infallible, surprisingly enough.

 

[Incunabula]

In my experience with lysergic amides the form of dosing is extremely important for the onset time. With liquid dosage I usually come up withing 30 min, 45 max, while it takes me 1,5 - 2 h with blotters. Sugar cubes are somewhere in-between. With really high doses of LSD in solution (250-350 µg) I felt the first effects after 10 minutes! With 200 µg blotters it took at least 45...
.

I kind of agree with you there, but honestly, that's your experience, and other people are going to have other opinions/experiences. And as I said, there's other threads for that, so let us just let it end here so we can keep on topic. My point still stand, that we can't conclude anything on 1-P-LSD's pharmacology from SI Ingwes fast come up.

I don't think 1P-LSD is a prodrug. It shouldn't be compared to 4-AcO/4-HO tryptamines because esters are WAY WAY easier to hydrolyse in vivo than amides. Just think of the diethylamide moiety in the molecule! However, it's long action might be partially explainable by some degree of hydrolysis in the 1-position. Whichever it is, I would really love to give this one a try. It sounds very promising...

I wasn't comparing it to 4-AcO/HO-DMT pharmacologically/chemically you misunderstand me. I just had a look in my crystal ball, and what I saw was that some people aren't going to be able to tell this apart from LSD, while others are going to swear they can feel a difference. Just like with psilocin/psilacetin. But we'll see about that in the coming months I might be wrong.

What we won't "see" in the coming months though, is if this really is a prodrug of LSD or not. We'll probably never know for sure, so yeah, what ever. I'm not going to get into a pointless discussion on pharmacology, or about who is the more clueless scientist, Nichols or Hoffman.

 

[jason7]

The patent specifically states that ALD-52 (they didn't use that name, but the chemical name) is 1/10th as toxic as LSD and has 2.5 times as much SSRI effect and doesn't cause hyperthermia but actually cools you down. Obviously, none of those differences would have been noted if it had simply turned into LSD in the body. Since Sandoz chemists are not known to be outright liars or imbeciles, I have to conclude that the 1-alkylamides do not turn into LSD in the human body.

 

[Doldrugs]

The patent specifically states that ALD-52 (they didn't use that name, but the chemical name) is 1/10th as toxic as LSD and has 2.5 times as much SSRI effect and doesn't cause hyperthermia but actually cools you down. Obviously, none of those differences would have been noted if it had simply turned into LSD in the body. Since Sandoz chemists are not known to be outright liars or imbeciles, I have to conclude that the 1-allkylamides do not turn into LSD in the human body.

You're making a huge logical jump, though. You don't have enough information to come to that conclusion.

 

[Incunabula]

And that patent is from 1957, I would think science evolved a bit since then.

 

[jason7]

As I said, get the new miracle drug, everybody. It cools you down so you don't overheat when you're dancing, it has low toxicity so it may not make you feel ill at all (no shakes would be nice), it may act as a mild antidepressant and it may help with vascular diseases. It's the "Jesus Drug". It cures the lame and the overheated.

 

[Peacephrog1972]

Sounds tp good to be true....i think the big problem is people will for sure be selling this as acid

 

[Transform]

If it has the same safety profile is that a huge problem?

It's dishonest but it's doesn't seem like it would be dangerous.

It is likely that this will be distributed primarily on clearly marked blotter.

 

[iLLCiD]

Sounds tp good to be true....i think the big problem is people will for sure be selling this as acid

Of all the RCS out there that people sell as acid I see no problem getting this instead of LSD. Sure it a crappy unethical thing to do to sell drugs posing as something else but compared to N-Benzyl-PEAs this is a treat just as most RC lysergamines, not to mention the profit margin really isn't that high so I'd doubt it would happen anyways.

 

[weirdling]

I think that assumptions are being made about the safety profile of a compound that is so novel it doesn't even have a wikipedia page yet, and that doesn't seem so HR, does it?

That said, this 1P-LSD really does look like a fantastic idea, and the propionyl seems innocuous enough to this layman. Bravo! I was a bit concerned what's next for the RC lysergamides after the ban, since even LSZ seemed to be pushing it a bit, but this looks really great.

 

[headfuck123]

The blotter doesn't have the print of the chem name like other former legal lysergimides. They have a simple pastel coloured geometric design but this could maybe be the case for the first batch and maybe they might get some new blotter printed with 1p-lsd on it. Cant wait to try it but I'll wait a while for more trip reports to surface.

 

[Solipsis]

In say AL-LAD or PRO-LAD, the LAD refers to 6-nor-LSD (i.e. without a methyl) but with an ALlyl or PROpyl group instead of that methyl. However here with 1P-LSD (IMO would probably be called 1-Prop-LSD with most accurate nomenclature abbreviation) it is different. Cause it is the full LSD molecule that is propionylated.
Although granted both LSD and LAD are abbreviations for the same.
I don't think there are naming conventions to continue with, at least not necessarily. The interpretation is subjective, I guess even my own one just now.

 

[Boognish]

bwahaha!! Like 2-3 people have tried this, and now it's the 'Jesus drug' with a perfect safety profile lol!

 

[zombywoof]

it is good though the only downside was it made my stomach rumble and ping a lot but it was quite empty at the time so that may have just been me and as its so new no one knows how safe it is only time will answer that but apart from that i did think it was very good.

 

[Solipsis]

When I used LSD for the first time it also made my stomach rumble, I had to burp about every 20 seconds for quite a while. Am pretty sure it was the nerves, even if I wasn't exactly anxious at the time but more like excited.
So it might just be a fluke type of thing you felt it, or psychosomatic.. if it is more like a 5-HT3 agonism thing or a specific tickler of receptors in the nausea center of the brain so to speak, I think we will probably see a trend in following reports soon enough.

Jason's sarcasm aside, people do need to take a second to realize this is an unresearched substance. While ALD-52 may be the first to look at as far as analogous or approximating chemicals, 1P technically is novel. I wouldn't overreact about that either, because some kinds of novelty are a hell of a lot more scary than others... but still, take it easy and report.. for science ;D

 

[zombywoof]

Well i used to get it with lsd too but it would soon override everything and my tummy would be fine but i never got this on al-lad or lsz. As i said it could just be me and i only have tested it once 1p-LSD at 100ug and did most likely have tolerance from trip from other lysergamide 12 days earlier.And even at that its not really a problem and a spliff did seem to settle it a bit

 

[Toltec]

My tummy would, get upset, if I took 300ug plus of LSD on up... cannabis always helped ... with that..
with Al-Lad @ 200ug plus, I did not have any, tummy upset. just a bit of anxiety Coz it is new...

With 1p-LSD we will see....

 

[Solipsis]

When someone says 1p-LSD, I can't help but think "really really low resolution visuals" LSD.
;p