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Phenethylamines The Big & Dandy 2C-T-4 Thread


Moderator: PR.net
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Sep 5, 2010

Welcome to the Big & Dandy 2C-T-4 Thread


2C-T-4 = 2,5-dimethoxy-4-isopropylthiophenethylamine


External Information Links:

Erowid 2C-T-4 Vault (experience reports)
PIHKAL Entry for 2C-T-4
Wikipedia entry

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The Big and Dandy 2C-T-4 Thread

2c-e’s retarded half brother

To begin, 2c-t-4 was the only chemical I had sampled at the time that I really had no basis for what to expect what I was going to get from it. I had read all the 1st person reports I could find on Erowid, Lycaeum, Bluelight, and in Pihkal. The only common thread between all the reports was that the experience was not what was expected. I was a bit apprehensive to start due to the fact I had just learned that its close cousin, 2c-t-7 may have mao inhibiting properties. After several experiences with the substance at many dose levels and with many other psychoactives, I feel there is nothing particularly worthwhile to this drug. It truly is 2c-e's retarded half brother.

Here is a summary of my and my friend’s experiences with this rare eclectic chem.
1st trial- 6mg
We decided to play it safe, since all sources seemed to point to an exceedingly long duration of action. 6mg down the hatch on an empty stomach. I was without any effects for at least an hour before even getting a typical "there is a phenethylaimine in me" alert. The time passing seemed to almost stop. Every 15 mins seemed like an eternity (and this effect gets more intense as the dose increases). By the time the 2nd hour had past, and I felt as though I had reached the peak of the experience, and I was ready for it to be over. A bowl of cannabis was imbided to try to get more visual effects and to pass some time. The cannabis had no noticeable effect on the overall experience. We decided the drug reminded us more of dxm or ketamine than the phenethylamine family. We had marked trails and some minor patterning on the white walls, but there was no real change in cognitive function.
Approx. T+6 hours, 30 mg instant dissolve mirtazipine was used to terminate the experience. Sleep was attained within an hour.

2nd trial- 10mg
After the last totally unfulfilling experience at the low dose of 6mg, I decided to up the ante to about 10 mg a week later. The experience was remarkably similar to the 6mg trial, but there was more of a body load at this dose, and the time dilation was far more pronounced. I did not feel a major change in headspace, but had some trouble articulating my thoughts verbally. As with the last trial, 2c-t-4 is like being on a good 2c-e trip, without any visuals or introspection to be found.
I decided to smoke 5mg of 5-meo-dmt to see if any good synergy was to be found. After inhaling the smoke, I was instantly very ill and had to vomit. The 2c-t-4 was totally overwhelmed by the 5-meo-dmt for about 30 mins after the hit. The time spent in 5-meo-dmt space was a treat compared with the pointless stoning of 2c-t-4. After the 5-meo wore off, there was again no real visuals or headspace change, just time dilation and nausea.
There is a pronounced unpleasant body load with this one folks. Again, at about T+8 hours, I attempted to end the experience with 200mg diphenhydramine, but what followed was total delirium. It was if the entire world was rippling with waves, similar to what you see after a raindrop hits a pool. The ripples began at the center of my visual field, and spread out evenly from there. These waves were cool at first, but then I began to have strange audio hallucinations. I would hear low frequency mumbling, not coming from any particular direction. The audio effects kept me from being able to get to sleep until approx. T+ 15 hours since dosing.

3rd trial- 20mg
After 2 totally worthless trials with the compound, I decided to again up the dose to see if higher doses had anything to offer. I dosed 20 mg in a glass of distilled water. DO NOT DO THIS. The taste is one I will grugingly remember for the rest of my life. BITTER.
Within 45 mins, I was beginning to feel effects and thought this was a good sign. Damn, was I wrong. It seemed that whatever the dose was, the character of the experience never changed. There was such time dilation, it was almost punishing. I felt I had been tripping the entire night by T+ 3hours. I was also, once again, feeling quite nauseas. I had to vomit 2x that night. It was not a typical drug puke, either. I was getting some bad muscle spasms in my abdomen during the vomiting. I smoked some cannabis, which had no effect on the overall experience, but eased the stomach discomfort. I was in what can be described as one of the most useless psychedelic spaces I could even imagine. There were no visual effects to speak of, just trails. The headspace was very depressing and dark. I wanted so badly for it to end, but knew I had a while to go. The remainder of the night was spent watching tv, though nothing was able to keep me entertained, except one episode of Cowboy Bebop. I finally fell asleep about 20 hours after the dose.

After these 3 experiences, I decided 2c-t-4 was utterly useless on its own, and I decided a series of combination experiments in controlled conditions was in order. Here is a summary of those experiences.

10mg 2c-t-4, 10mg 4-ho-dipt.
I took the 2c-t-4 in a veggie cap on an empty stomach. I waited for the standard time dilation to present itself. After about 90 mins, I felt as if I had sufficient access to the space. 10 mg of 4-ho-dipt was ingested in another veggie cap. Within 20 mins, I was beginning to feel the entire character of the experience change for the better. I was beginning to feel the only euphoria I had gotten with 2c-t-4. I began to get some good morphing and twisting of objects around me, but only if I would force it through staring. Laughter came easily. There was some wall breathing. There was no tachardia or tinnitus to be noted. Mild nausea, but nothing severe. I was beginning to see some hope for this chem yet. This was short lived however, as the 4-ho-dipt began to wane after about 4 hours. By T+5 from ingestion of the 4-ho-dipt, I was back to miserable 2c-t-4 space. I spent another night wishing I could sleep.

12 inches of san pedro and 20mg 2c-t-4
I wanted to see if there was any way to get anything out of 2c-t-4. 12 inches of san pedro was de-spined, run through a blender. I took the cactus mush, and combined it with 20 oz of distilled water. The resulting cocktail was placed on the stove over low heat and allowed to simmer for 2 hours. I then filtered out the cactus mush with cheesecloth and discarded. I returned the juice to the stove for another 4 hours, and evaporated 90% of the water, leaving about 2oz of vile viscous cactus tea. The was taken as a shot. Might I just say “blech, disgusting, most foul liquid I have ever tasted” Within an hour, alerts were felt from the pedro, and 20mg of 2c-t-4 was eaten in a gelcap. The next hour was spent trying very hard not to vomit and ruin the experience. I began to suddenly get VERY high about 90 mins after eating the cap. I was beginning to get some of the most intense visual distortions I have ever gotten. I got nauseas from the amount of twisting and wall breathing going on around me. I, again, got the pleasure of a very bad vomit session. After the vomit, I began to feel much better, There was actually something to the trip this time. I was getting very crazy, borderline delusional trains of thought. I would explain further, but I don’t feel it is possible to do. The night was spent pondering random thoughts. The one thing that stands out the most was I , using my 3rd eye, was able to visualize whatever I tried to. Unfortunately, I began to get some alarming tremors in my legs. I layed down and left my corporeal body for quite some time. When I got back to reality, I found I was on the way back to baseline. I spent the night in awe of the oobe.

15mg 2c-t-4, 15mg 4-ho-dipt, repeated smoked 5-meo-dmt, cannabis and No2
This experience took place at a Flogging Molly concert. I took the 2c-t-4 and iprocin in a bottle of water and drank it as I walked from the hotel to the venue, about ½ mile away.
By the time I arrived, the iprocin was making its presence known. The first band to play was The Briggs, I am not a big fan, but they were ok. After the Briggs played their set, I was getting, once again, VERY HIGH. The Street Dogs came on stage next, and I was very impressed. I felt as though I had taken at least 750 mics of lsd. I spent some time in the pit to blow off excessive energy. By the time Flogging Molly finaly came onstage., I was floored. I got in the pit for Flogging Molly also, and talk about sensory overload. I had no idea what was really going on, but could not stop laughing. It was some of the most fun I have ever had. After the show, I stopped at a good times by the hotel and got a burger, as I was starving. Once in the hotel room, I smoked a joint and got out the bitch and 5-meo-dmt. I loaded about 10 mg of the freebase in the pipe. And put 3 whipits in a large balloon. I hit the 5-meo-dmt and blew the smoke into the balloon with the nitrous. I began to inhale from the balloon and was immediately the highest I have ever been. Classic +4 experience. Soon after returning to reality, there was a loud knock at the door. “FUCK, I am way to high to deal with this”, ran through my head. I immediately hid all the drugs in the room safe, turned out all the lights, and became silent. Soon after, the sun was coming up. I got in the car (I know, bad idea) and was on my way back home. I left whippits and god only knows what else still in the room. I got home an hour or so later and smoked cannabis until falling asleep.

Overall, I was not at all impressed with 2c-t-4. It is worth trying once, just due to the oddity of the experience, but not at all worthwhile. The character of the trip is very disassociative, which I have mentioned elsewhere, I believe. The only merit this one has is its synergy with iprocin and 5-meo-dmt. I gave away my remaining supply after these experiments, satisfied I had gotten all I could from 2c-t-4. The body load is also very numbing and unpleasant. Overall 3 out of 10
What do you on BL think of 2c-t-4??
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MY one experience (18mg) was very strong (in that I was at a full +3) but not at all fulfilling. I too was reminded more of a dissociative than a visionary phenethylamine. To sum up, my experience was very much as you describe 2C-T-4 (especially the extreme time-dilation and lack of visuals) but thankfully I was spared any significant bodyload. I did vomit (not surprising as 2C-T-2 and 2C-T-7 also make me vomit) but no unpleasant stimulation or dirty body-feeling like I get with 2C-T-2.

I still want to try this one again, but at 10mg-12mg just to see. Hopefully I can get something from it, but I am just as happy to keep it as a souvenir than an ally. It certainly is amazing how moving the position of one carbon can so radically change the nature of a molecule.

Here is my report...

I think it will better serve you as a trophy in your colection than as a psychoactive;)
Your report sounds very similar to my experiences indeed.
Also amazing is how most everyone reacts differently to research chemicals isn’t it?
This is my favorite PEA. I realize that’s a rare opinion. For me it’s a brilliant psychotherapeutic tool, which has become the only reason for me to take a phenethylamine anyway. I guess you probably didn’t approach it that way since you seem to focus on the bland visuals, extreme time dilation, body load, bitter taste, etc. It’s not something to party with. Lol.

The cognitive effects of this one don’t even begin to manifest (for me) until at least the fourth or fifth hour. The body has always felt fine but it is a long experience. Among other things it has allowed me to deal with the past (provides unrivalled, clear access to hazy and repressed memories) and focus on the future in constructive ways. Maybe you haven’t sought out this type of experience, maybe you don’t need to, but it works very well in this context.

I noticed you killed or altered your trips early. Set, setting and purpose is all I can say.
santadog said:
Also amazing is how most everyone reacts differently to research chemicals isn’t it?
This is my favorite PEA. I realize that’s a rare opinion. For me it’s a brilliant psychotherapeutic tool, which has become the only reason for me to take a phenethylamine anyway. I guess you probably didn’t approach it that way since you seem to focus on the bland visuals, extreme time dilation, body load, bitter taste, etc. It’s not something to party with. Lol.

The cognitive effects of this one don’t even begin to manifest (for me) until at least the fourth or fifth hour. The body has always felt fine but it is a long experience. Among other things it has allowed me to deal with the past (provides unrivalled, clear access to hazy and repressed memories) and focus on the future in constructive ways. Maybe you haven’t sought out this type of experience, maybe you don’t need to, but it works very well in this context.

I noticed you killed or altered your trips early. Set, setting and purpose is all I can say.

The effects I got were not at all what I was expecting going in to it. The only reason I aborted (or attempted to abort;)) several of the experiences is there was nothing good coming from the chemical I just did not get along with 2c-t-4 nearly as well as any of the other phens I have tried and loved. In my mind, it is a dud.
Hmmm, well what happened in my case then santadog? I certainly approached it as a therapuetic tool and had taken it for insights (took the day off work so I could be alone all day with my thoughts) but never got much as far as any insights. In general, it is pretty rare for me to take any psychedelic for recreation. With T4 my mind was cloudy....more trance-like and dreamy than the clear-head I associate with the other 2Cs.

But as I said, I am hopeful another try (at a lower dose) may show some value.
Maybe if more people contribute, we can take this 2c-t-4 thread and Big and Dandy'fy it. I am surprised there is not one already.
In the book Thanatos to Eros, there is a small bit on 2C-T-4.


2C-T-4, code name for 2,5-dimethoxy-4-(i)-propylthiophenethylamine, has characteristics quite similar to 2C-T-2 except that it is considerably longer acting. We have had it only twice, and our first experience with it was outstanding. We found it more benign than 2C-T-2, perhaps because lasting all day and evening, the intensity of the chemical grew more gradu ally and was easier to handle. We found it a superb way to put in a long day. Here is a report of our first trial:

Jean takes 8 m.g. and I take 9 m.g. of 2C-T-4. We have a marvelous ascent -- clean, gentle, and smooth. Our perception is heightened, and conversation is easy. We enjoy talking over many things for which we ordinarily don't take time.

I spend a good deal of time exploring inside, which is very rewarding. It is easy to explore questions and find answers. I strike a deep loneliness, which resolves as my love for myself grows. I focus on self-love until I finally break free with a substantial appreciation of myself. This is most fulfilling.

The experience grows in intensity over a three hour period, and stays at the peak for many hours afterward. It becomes a complete, profound, and thorough exploration. This is a remarkable substance, allowing me to look anywhere and explore any chosen subject. Bodywise, it is clean and clear. The experience remains smooth and gentle. Even exploring uncomfortable areas, there is still a good feeling tone. I see clearly into my own functioning, relationships, the dynamics of people I focus on, and general philosophical truths.

I find it best to let go and simply flow with the experience, following wherever it takes me. This leads to a growing euphoria, a feeling of clearing out body residues, and often culminates in profound insight. Thinking continues to grow in clarity throughout the day, and visual perception is crystal clear. The scenery is outstanding. Closeness and understanding with Jean develop steadily during the day. It is a most enjoyable time together.

A major problem I work on is the sluggish feelings that arise from time to time. I find it best to simply ride them through. As the day develops, it becomes easier to change my feelings by changing the focus of my thoughts. A major lesson is honesty, to simply be what I am with all of my idiosyncrasies, and stop trying to make things different. I achieve an exceptional state of peace and contentment with myself and the way things are.

Dancing to high energy dance music uncovers a lot of new, intense feelings, leading to some of the most profound realizations of the day. I strike a profound dichotomy: on the one hand, everyone is God and can resolve their own burdens, so I don't have to do anything. On the other hand, I am Christ and only by my being willing to lift the burden of others can the world be helped. [This is somewhat like a high level realization I experienced sometime later with my friend Gil (see Chapter 11), that the highest state of all is caring with all of your might, while simultaneously not caring with all of your might. Whoever comprehends this is well along the path!]

I see there is nothing wrong with having high standards, as long as I apply them to myself. I profoundly see the equality of everyone, and my proper relationship to others.

Persons on tight time schedules will have a hard time working in the occasion for 2C-T-4. Jean and I like setting aside a day for an experience, and that being the case, it might as well be a full one! This substance certainly offered us a rich, full, extremely rewarding day.

I hope it works for me that way at the lower level I intend to try. 18mg was just too much. Santa...what dosages do you prefer to work with?
I don’t know what happened in your case seedy, how would I? Depending on whose body you place them in these compounds just seem to affect people differently. I hope you try again someday though.

I love Stolaroff’s work by the way, thanks for including that text.

I’ve worked with dosages from 5 – 25mg. If I were to go again, which would probably be a long time from now, I’d reckon the sweet spot (for me) to be around 16mg. Being that I’m 5’10” 175lbs and a phen lightweight.

Glad we’re finally getting around to discussing this one :)
MGS, the person in your text seemed to have a much more enjoyably time with 2c-t-4 than I. It should be noted that my brother and friend B both explored 2c-t-4 at similar doses and found the character to be very much the same as me.

This one seems very variable, and yet very similar in action, though not in length.

Santadog, the closest thing I found to a sweet spot was during the course of other drugs during the 2c-t-4 trip. Alone it is almost as miserable as a-o, dms.
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guess I'm just lucky then! %)

Of course Stolaroff reported a big positive ++++ on 2CT8, too.
Maybe we’re just a bit, uh, odd. :-S
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Sounds like the beginning of a big and dandy thread.
santadog said:
I don’t know what happened in your case seedy, how would I?

Well I was being sarcastic because you were quick to find the cause of the OP's terrible time. I figured you would be able to answer for me as well. :)

Of course you would have no way of knowing why I found T4 to be such an anomaly.
I tried it twice - once at 5mg and once at 10mg. I got the dissociative feeling like crap feeling both times. When I got it there was not much info out there and I was expecting a different flavor of 2ct2 or 2ct7, but the wierd side effect and stoned feeling were really unpleasant and both times I was eager to end the trip. I have never tried any combinations since I didn't enjoy it on its own and figured that it would ruin the effect of the other molecule combined with it.
I planned on trying again, but there are so many better things available that it may be a while...
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I know its a very large dose, but Ive had one of themost visual experiances of my life on 2C-T-4. (38mg), a friend who took 30mg that night had a severe psychotic break, which ruined the trip.
Theres extreme nausea coming up on this amount, and overall the body discomfort isnt worth it, but Ill never forget seeing that ufo hovering outside my house....
Yeah I really like this one.At about 25mg I got stuck between my bathroom and closet door.I've had a few really opening experiences with it talking to my family and friends.
I had a very minimal visual experience each time I did 2c-t-4. I get almost as much visual effect from cannabis alone. The trails were basically the only visual manifestation of the chem.
I forgot to mention that I also combined 2c-t-4 with an A. perigrina snuff. The snuff totaly changed the nature of the trip within a minute. I went from a partially disassociated place to a full on visionary state. The 2c-t-4 seemed to mellow out the physical effects of the 5-ho-dmt. I still became very ill and purged, but the pressure was mostly lacking. The nature of the experience still has me wondering about an A. perigrina + DXM combo at some point.
This has been Big and Dandified! Let's start contributing!

Unfortunately, I can't, as I never managed to find this one.