• PD Moderators: arrall | Buzz Lightbeer | Cream Gravy? | Xorkoth

☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy Amanita Mushrooms Thread

ungelesene_bettlek

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
914
Location
Continental Europe/EU
Amanita pantherina

i've collected some Amanita pantherina last weekend and would like to trip with them. i know that they are much more potent than the fly agaric, but how much more exactly? so what would be the dosage? i have already experience with amanita muscaria, one medium trip with 12 g dry and one hard trip with 18 g dry...

are there chemical differences between the two species? there should be an alcaloid called pantherine in them, but this could also be only an synonyme for muscimol, not sure...
 

Tsukasa

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
1,871
It's really hard to OD on amanita's. They're pretty worthless, so don't expect a
"trip" or anything like that. Maybe some relaxation, euphoria, and mild dissoication at its best.

I say start with 10g's (dry) and work your way up.
 

egor

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
5,018
Location
former pangea
ungelesene_bettlek said:
i've collected some Amanita pantherina last weekend and would like to trip with them. i know that they are much more potent than the fly agaric, but how much more exactly? so what would be the dosage? i have already experience with amanita muscaria, one medium trip with 12 g dry and one hard trip with 18 g dry...

are there chemical differences between the two species? there should be an alcaloid called pantherine in them, but this could also be only an synonyme for muscimol, not sure...


Are you certain of the iderntity of the mushrooms?? There are poisonous amanitas with eerily similar appearances. Be careful
 

ungelesene_bettlek

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
914
Location
Continental Europe/EU
Tsukasa said:
It's really hard to OD on amanita's. They're pretty worthless, so don't expect a
"trip" or anything like that. Maybe some relaxation, euphoria, and mild dissoication at its best.
i have to object very hard! my trip on 18 g of amanita muscaria was perhaps my strongest psychedelic experience ever, complete with synesthesia, being god, complete ego loss, time travel, etc.

egor said:
Are you certain of the iderntity of the mushrooms?? There are poisonous amanitas with eerily similar appearances. Be careful
thank you for the warning! yes, i am certain that they are really amanita pantherina. nevertheless, which deadly amanitas are there that can be confused with it? i only know of Amanita rubescens, which is quite similar to Amanita pantherina, but not poisonous at all, but a very good mushroom for eating.
 
Last edited:

swilow

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
31,914
Location
Your double slit
Tsukasa said:
It's really hard to OD on amanita's. They're pretty worthless,
.


I have to disagree completely; particular with A. Pantherina. Fatalaties have indeed occurred from this species; whether its mixed up with A. Rubi...? or contains toxins that occurr seasonally who knows? It is very possible to die from amanitas; muscaria no, pantherina yes- then the amanita family just gets more toxic until we reach the dread Destroying Angel....
 

Amberthefrog

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
430
theres a few deadly amanita's

Most of the classic 'deadly' amanitas species look very different from panther caps. I think you should be more concerned that they themselves are poisonous! ;)
People have died from them, and whilst a 'normal' dose would cause no harm to a healthy adult they contain a much wider and nasty set of alkaloids than muscaria, i think the main thing is a lot more muscarine which is bad.

I have to disagree completely; particular with A. Pantherina. Fatalaties have indeed occurred from this species; whether its mixed up with A. Rubi...? or contains toxins that occurr seasonally who knows? It is very possible to die from amanitas; muscaria no, pantherina yes- then the amanita family just gets more toxic until we reach the dread Destroying Angel....

For the record muscaria can and has killed before, it is just very uncommon that it does so. ;)
 

ungelesene_bettlek

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
914
Location
Continental Europe/EU
Amberthefrog said:
I think you should be more concerned that they [panther caps] themselves are poisonous! ;)
People have died from them, and whilst a 'normal' dose would cause no harm to a healthy adult they contain a much wider and nasty set of alkaloids than muscaria, i think the main thing is a lot more muscarine which is bad.
this is exactly what i'm trying to figure out. which alcaloids are in the panther caps? is it true that they contain more muscarin than the fly agaric? i have also already read the contrary somewhere!
 

PsyGhost

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Messages
1,254
Location
USA
Amanita pantherina should not be toxic until you reach 100g of fresh mushrooms. Deaths have occured but may be from complications and not toxicity. It has trace amounts of muscarine, the main chemical toxins are ibotenic acid, muscimol, and muscazone.
 

ungelesene_bettlek

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
914
Location
Continental Europe/EU
thanks a lot for your answer, PsyGhost!

PsyGhost said:
Amanita pantherina should not be toxic until you reach 100g of fresh mushrooms. Deaths have occured but may be from complications and not toxicity. It has trace amounts of muscarine, the main chemical toxins are ibotenic acid, muscimol, and muscazone.
so its alkaloids are completely similar to Amanita muscaria? do you know if pantherine is another component, or if this is simply another name for muscimol? and how much more potent is it compared to the fly agaric?
 

egor

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
5,018
Location
former pangea
^^that will probably be dependant on the specific conditions in which the pantherinas grew and be V variable:\ There is just not enough verifiable info to be sure
 

Amberthefrog

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
430
so its alkaloids are completely similar to Amanita muscaria? do you know if pantherine is another component, or if this is simply another name for muscimol? and how much more potent is it compared to the fly agaric?

Muscimol = pantherine.
 

PsyGhost

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Messages
1,254
Location
USA
ungelesene_bettlek said:
thanks a lot for your answer, PsyGhost!


so its alkaloids are completely similar to Amanita muscaria? do you know if pantherine is another component, or if this is simply another name for muscimol? and how much more potent is it compared to the fly agaric?

I can't find any numbers or dosing information, only that pantherina is usually more potent and is supposed to have more pleasant effects and less negative side effects as muscaria. However since a good starting point with A. muscaria fresh is 1-3 mushrooms added to alcohol and steeped for a week, or 5-10g dried mushrooms eaten, I would go on the safe side and not eat over 10g of the dried mushroom.
 

Corky

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
11
I was very deeply into amanita's a few years ago. Hear are some posts from that time period...

> How does the experience compare to psilocybin?

Barely compares at all. On high doses there are visuals, but not
vivid-colorful like Psil's. I've had CEV's of falling leaves, tattered
tapastries, fizzly cobalt-blue energies that crunch/crumple themself
up into dissappearing balls. CEV's tend to be DXM like, (closest thing
I can compare them to) Most vivid visual I've had was an open eyed one
where the visual field would seem to get ripped off like a sticker,
then reapplied several times a second, kind of maddening, so I just
laid down and closed my eyes.

But the visuals aren't the main event, neither is the euphoria, which
is slight, if at all. Main attraction is the sleepy thought-life that
nods down into dream-language. That seems very MEANING-FULL, resolving
of deeply-set questions/conflicts, untill one wakes up a little and
examines them at arms length, at which point they seem like a bunch of
egnigmatic CRAZY-NONSENSE! But that's all a part of the fun! The stuff
is inclined towards sleep, and one will tend to fall asleep on a good
dose, and that's OK cause the dreams on this stuff are often the
BEST-PART, and have blown me away as compleatly as any-thing else I've
tried (which is a lot). They often seem so SIGNIFICANT as if one is
finaly being allowed to witness the unraveling of the MYSTERIES. And
one just gobbles up THE MEANING of it all. Upon awakening I'll laugh
out loud at the sheer NUT-BALL INSANITY of it all, and not have a clue
about what it's about, but again that's the fun of the stuff,
contained MADDNESS!!!

and...

Gob, I'm obsessing, you know, in the piscean age ( the one the occult
folks say were moving out of),in the Old World, there is all this
deep-dark-arcane stuff. The blood-letting, the sacrificial offering,
shaggy phophets talking to "god", meetings in the woods with drunken
"fools" spouting deep "truths" mixed with enigmatic nonsense. Who
knows what there talking about? Louts of God with some other points
besides the commenly given. These lousey shrooms with there
specific-content-containing delirium seem to capture the ambience of
these by-gone days. They are like a trip back through time. There
seems to be a light shining in the midst of these dark, foggy forests,
and a path out of town. They're dirty and quite loony and likely the
source of a lot of your gnostic, early christian, other Old World
religious/mystical stuff, as has often been suggested.

but wait, there's more...

Well the other morning when I was about to retire (Night-person) i
decided to take a small (about a gram) mushroom cap of some recently
received (JLF) Rocky Mountain Amanita Pantherina's. No big deal, I've
done this before as a sleep and dream inducer.

So I gobble down and lay back and funny, I feel a little nauseaus,
never happened before on such a small dose. But I fall asleep anyway
and start having the most bizzarly involving dreams, it seems at one
point within the dream I win some sort of "Weirdess Dream of the Year"
award that entitles me to a free trip to our sister planet (you know
the one we share caretakers with, mixed DNA, interstellar
experimentations in planet-seeding and culture) So the sweep of
interstellar space and the shifting of influences from our home planet
to this mystery planet as I arrive is awe-inspiring!

Then I wake up, my socks blown off by the intensity of the dreams, and
go to the bathroom to pee. As I'm sitting on the toilet (safer that
way) I look around and realize that I'm tripping balls, harder then 8
to 10 grams of other batches of Pantherina's I've had, even expensive
Japanese ones! All on just a gram, a gram and a half tops- Granted
this was the darkest cap of the batch, but still quite a surprise!
Everything I Look at gets pulled off from one corner like plastic
sticker, then reapplied (made visible) again, serveral times a second.
Kind of nerve-racking. So I flush and get back into bed and sleep to 5
in the afternoon, having tons of strange, wonderfull dreams, that seem
to be so packed with Meaning/Significance within the context of the
dream, but when I wake up it's like "what the fuck was that all
about!" Weird!

Since then I've sampled other caps from this bag, and found them no
where near as powerfull, just typical powerfull (from my experience)
So watch out for those flukes!!!

and...

I'm a fan of these. I guess I'm an anomaly, I don't sweat, salivate,
or get nauseas. They are not at all like P. mushrooms, Althou I do get
vivid CEV's on higher doses- earthy stuff like floating leaves, rock
textures/surfaces, textile patterns, dark-hued but vivid. On high-dose
trips I notice a separation of identity from the habits of mind that
normally contain it. Disassociation from the (being) within time to
the (being) without time. One can watch the "psyche" mechanically
"doing it's thing" from the perspective of the exteriorized "essence".
In this way it's easy to see how this stuff might have inspired the
Early Christians and Gnostics. - "I am in this world not of it"

Not too much euphoria, no colorfully dazzeled third eye, but a deeply
medatative state, if one can appreciate the flatness of it. Not much
"OH WOW", more "Yes of course, now I remember."

That said falling asleep and dreaming (on it) can have a great deal of
"OH WOW" factor- dreams (for me) tend to oscillate between dire themes
of martrydom (early christian stuff again?) and just plain crazy
spirit of Pan stuff- madcap/perverse humor shaping the symbolism.
These dream sequences can be EXTREAMLY INTENSE at times, other times
not much goes on there, I guess the astral is like the weather or
good/bad day's for fishing (in this aspect).

So that's it, I'm weird, I actually quite like Amanita's!

My god! when will it end... not yet.

Lately amanita's have become one of my favorite ethnobotanical pals.
Here's why.
Let me preface this by saying that amanita's vary widely in their
chemical make-up and effect. Good ones have more of the good stuff and
less of the bad stuff. I feel that Japanese pantherina's are the best.
these can be mail ordered and eaten as is with out any additional
fuss. However even the effect of the good one's will vary widely from
person to person. This is what makes them trickey. As far as dosage
goes, start low (3-4 grams) and work your way up slowly. Good
amanita's seem to like me (or my metabolism likes them) in that I
experience few negative side effects (no excessive salavation,
sweating, little or no nausea) YMMV. Amanita's aren't very involving
in low doses and in high doses they are too gooned out. Medium to
medium high doses are the most rewarding but again START LOW! The
experience is not very euphoric no glimps of heaven here. What it is
dark, not external world, not social. They're a look back, within, and
below. I like to take them alone at night, in the dark on the couch,
headphones on and off, music ambient, relaxing, trance inducing.
Biosphere, Robert Roach, Hypnos label stuff works great. First effect
is a funny body feeling. At first a little disturbing, than
comfortable. Then at some point I notice that my verbal thoughts have
shifted down into chunks of dream symblolism. This wakes me up and the
process of shifting down then repeats it's self. Sometimes insight
results form this tumbling over of the conscience into the
unconscience mind. Sometimes it's just interesting quirky nonsence. I
get a sort of bifocal view into the spirit and the beast. The beast
living confused with fear under time. The spirit clear, without fear,
outside of time. The gnostic principles governing which side I'm
identified with seem to be featured here. If I an feeling fear,
confusion I find it easy to correct that by identifing with the
fundemental tone of my essential whole well-being. And then I'm
hummming right along. AUM. On higher doses CEV'S become vivid. Very
earthy- organic- death,decay,regeneration stuff. A mushroom eyed point
of view. Floating Autumn leaves, birch bark, beetle shell, insect
wing, ancient wizard's bag tattered faded fabric beutifull embroidered
silver forest green. Frayed edges. Bursting seed/spore/pollen pods.
Poof poof poof.. the body-mind feels very well-grounded. Composting
into forest floor. From there I tend to slip off into dreams. These
dreams are wild vivid entertainingly nightmarish and seem to repeat
the mechanical theme of martyrdom. I've been both the victem and the
victemizer in these dreams and it is evident that neither of these
sides are wanted. That they are just the pieces that one get's stuck
with in this ancient game, played by who?!? Once I experienced myself
as the central vacumn tube of creation, crusified into the circuit
socket of reality. Stuck there so that the whole world can manifest
around me and should I be pulled out of that socket, Poof the whole
univerce blinks off like a light. A electronic dark night of the soul.
So that's it Amanita's deep, fascinating, occult, weird. Take em or
leave em.

Just one more, if you can stand it...

Jaguar have you ever heard the old addage "one man's mead is another
man's poisen"? There's a lot of truth to that. I for one can't bear
ayahuasca, even carefully obeying all the dietary regulations it just
makes all my nerves scream and feel like I'm on the verge of a stoke
if I get more than a entry level dose in me. <--EDIT I GREW PAST THIS- UPPING THE VINE AND ELIMINATING THE ROOT-BARK (LEAF ONLY) HELPED. THAT PLUS PRACTICE.-->END EDIT For you ayahuasca may be
THE KEY. I've used Amanita's both muscaria and pantherina and have
found that used properly (for me that means light out, alone on the
couch, maybe headphones on) they are a relaxing and fascinating
experience with very few toxic effects involved. Beautiful CEV's and a
quite dialog with the sub-conscience mind are common. And then there
are those wild dreams! What a cast of characters! Sure when I'm
walking back and forth from the john I feel retarded a bit, but that's
not where the experience is at (for me), sort of like ketamine and dxm
that way.
At any rate for me and alot of other people they are psychedelic, just
not for everyone aparently.
 

genaro

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 10, 2004
Messages
993
Location
France
dramamine is fucking dangerous (see my report somewhere on the forum: cardiovascular troubles with extreme vasoconstriction and arrhytmia)

I suggest you don't use dramamine at all, anyway, there are other similar medecines which are supposedly more safe and producing the exact same antichlinergic effects with little negative side effects (artane is one of these if I recall well, not sure)
Also note that all these medecine (including dramamaine) usually have some very strong depressant effect (can be very dangerous in combination with other drugs)

amanita on it self can produce pronouced overheating (fever) and dehydratation (heavy sweating). You have to drink plenty of fresh water during the trip (to be sure to avoid anything going bad from dehydratation)
 

Newmoonrecord

Bluelighter
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
1,030
Corky said:
I was very deeply into amanita's a few years ago. Hear are some posts from that time period...

> How does the experience compare to psilocybin?

.................
.................

But the visuals aren't the main event, neither is the euphoria, which
is slight, if at all. Main attraction is the sleepy thought-life that
nods down into dream-language.


Wow this is fucking sweet! (bumped so people can read your post) I like your style. I'm about to journey off on some psychedelic voyages with amanitas in the coming weeks and this post pretty much sums up exactly what I am looking to add to my "psychedelic repertoire", so to speak. It's rare that people appreciate that more mystical, unknown and unknowable dark side, especially given the propensity to seek euphoria and novelty that pervades a lot of the traditional psychedelic drug culture. Definitely the most valuable amanitas related post i've ever read.
 
Last edited:

Corky

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
11
Thanks!

I hope amanita works out well for you. It has a few hard-core fans, but to be honest, many people don't get much out of it...hope your one of the lucky ones!
 

The Wizard

Bluelighter
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
389
So I'm going to be acquiring 60 grams of Amanita Pantherina very soon and wanted to know what to expect effects wise? I hear people describe the effects as dissociating; is this an accurate assessment? While others I hear describe Amanita as alcohol or GHB-like.

Also, what dosage would be good for my first-time? I'm a veteran to many hallucinogens (L, Psilocybe, 2CE, MDxx, HBW, MG, K, DXM, DOx) and have been tripping on various things for 8 or so years now so I assume I'll require a higher dose than the average psychonaut. Is it true that Pantherina is much more potent than Amanita Muscaria?

Also, I wanted to know what drugs are fun to combine with Amanita? Say, for example L, HBW, MG, Syrian Rue, supplements and smart drugs?

I've heard a lot about dosage recommendations for Amanita muscaria but what other Pantherina? And if the potency can vary so much from batch to batch how am I to know what a good starting dose is? Would 5-10 grams be good for one's first time? How long do the effects take to manifest themselves and how long till the peak and then to get to baseline?

Lastly, is it safe to mix stimulants or smart drugs with Amanita Pantherina? I keep reading of how sleepy Amanita can make one and I'm naturally prone to sleepiness so I'm worried that the sleepiness of the Amanita will ruin the experience for me. So I was wondering if it would be safe to use something stimulating like Caffeine, Piracetam, DL-Phenylalanine, DMAE, Acetyl L-Carnitine or CoQ10 with the Pantherina?

Would it be wise or foolish for me to combine Pantherina with a Tryptamine (Psilocybe or Syrian Rue), Ergoline (HBW) or DXM?

Also, could you guys detail your preparation methods for Pantherina so I can compare and contrast them? I hear of all these different preparation methods and dont know which to use. And if the Pantherina is already in a dried form do I even need to bother heating it?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Damien

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
15,944
Location
714, CA, USA
I do not have any information regarding the fungi you speak of but I do know that
I assume I'll require a higher dose than the average psychonaut.
is probably not a safe assumption.
 
Top