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The Big & Dandy bk-MBDB (Butylone) Thread

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Funny thing is, when I dose or supplement one of the several stimulant research chemicals I'm currently sampling there have been quite a few times I get a little jolt of backache only moments after imbibing. The back sensation has appeared on a few other occasions (i.e. under influence but not immediately after dosing) but was always transient and very mild.
This, the vasoconstriction and general cardiovascular stress are often indicated at lower doses which mostly tells me what limit there is to using the substance, tolerance or no.

I recently had an experience with a little over 100 mg 4-FMP combined with 35 mg bk-MBDB and 10 mg 2C-B @ T=0:00 - It compounded my suspicion that bk-MBDB really shines in combo's as a primer or piggyback. I feel it opens op deep emotions, but at this lower dose not too powerfully but enough to add extra magic to the 4-FMP experience. I also added 2C-B at a lower dose (for me anyway) to open up some wonderful and malleable headspace. I think it totally worked, it was more profound than MDMA without that forcing drive - i would also label it more lucid, my mind exquisitely placid and serene, my emotions opened up and seriously augmented by that distinct bk-MBDB feeling about which I've said before I can imagine is easily misinterpreted as anxiety or general stimulation. Sure it can produce restlessness at times when 'unattended', but consciously channeling it let me access truly 'touching' sensations.
Some delicious hash boosted the experience nicely :)

Future investigations will have to point out how well bk-MBDB plays with psychedelics, the difficulty keeping the
remarkably weird energyflow in check will probably lead to an increased chance of anxiety or emotional confusion -
perhaps GHB can help to pave the way when necessary...
 
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Have been using this substance as a weekend regular for some months now. I absolutely love it. It's got a methylone feel to it, without peeking as instensely, less speedy but also has less craving. After heavy use I can still hold the dose under 200 mg in a (long) night.
Combination with 4-FMP has yielded great results for me also! 4-FMP being roomy but giving a great body feel, bk-MBDB bringing the euphoria.
I have experienced no harsh comedown or craving the following day, neither physical nor mental.
Seems less dopaminergic than M1, more serotonergic.
 
Did you find the feeling unilaterally stable or all over the place?
 
Solipsys said:
Did you find the feeling unilaterally stable or all over the place?
Click to expand...

Doesn't come as much in waves as methylone and practically all other stimulants except for 4-FMP and MDPV (imo). I would say stable, but I'm not sure if this is what you mean.
 
okay...so many people say that B1 is a tad to stimulating for their tastes...in what sense?
Too much selectivity for dopamine, a la m1? Too much activity at nor-epi'? Or too much adrenergic stimulation?

ebola
 
I have heard that this one acts primary as serotonin releaser, which is also the reason why it adds so well to methylone, which is primary a dopamine release - is that true?
 
Are you sure you're not confusing bk-MBDB with MBDB? I thought bk-MBDB was considerably dopaminergic; I may be wrong, though.
 
Well I suspect there is DA and NE activity, while methylone feels like the one primarily involved with serotonin... I don't know the actual affinities but it seems to me B1 provides a certain push while lacking in uniform positive direction, M1 has much warmth but is far from pushy. I'd appreciate someone elucidating the cause of the push I mentioned because it doesn't seem simply stimulating, I think that is a misinterpretation or secondary effect - the push provides noticable energy flow. MDMA is not only physically stimulating but gives a forceful push of energy while the direction of it is steered in a - most often - extremely positive direction which is why it is probably revered as such a complete euphoric empathogen. Again, the combination you mention is probably complete in this way too, lending all ingredients together...
Another thing that makes me believe this is 2C-B and B1 together make 2C-B just more driven, the forcefulness can be a bit overwhelming at times and when you combine B1 with nothing at all or a substance that also lacks steering power you are expected to drive it yourself which demands a certain mindfulness. Paying too little attention to it then creates an uncontrolled energy flow which can manifest in stuff like a way uncomfortable body load and something like an undifferentiated surge of emotional energy. This I find totally different from general stimulation.
Steering this energy and channeling it succesfully on the other hand is magical! So either learn a valuable thing like that or combine B1 with something positively glowing like M1, that is IMO where the promise lies of B1.
 
mmm...methylone happens to have a far higher DA:5HT ratio than MDMA...I don't know about NE or peripheral adrenergic agnoism though. . .and I REALLY wish that we yet had good data on the receptor affinities of bk-MBDB. This might shed a little light on the neural difference between the MDMA 'push' and the push of classical stimulants.

I also really wish to know if B1 shares the same pitfalls of M1.
 
what do you mean pitfalls? Reinforcing through multiple doses? Probably...
 
I'd also like to hear what you mean by pitfalls. For me the pitfalls of M1 are excessive stimulation, pushier and falser sense of empathy than MDMA, and I find the hangover worse than MDMA.
I often take B1 on the downslope of M1 and it feels good for a while but the excessive stimulation starts to really grate on my nerves and twice now have given some of the worst insomnia i've ever had. Last time I dosed:
100mg M1 @ 8pm on a saturday night
40mg M1 @T+1
40mg B1 @T+2.5
40mg B1 @T+4

Had a nice experience while the main effects were affecting, but after 4am i was still jittery, couldn't stop my mind from racing, tried kava, kratom, my usual comedown tricks, didn't get to sleep until 8pm sunday night and only after i decided enough was enough. I nearly never take xanax and only have a small bottle of 0.25mg tabs for emergencies and i was starting to think this was turning into one, swallowed 4 of them, hit the bed like a stone 45 minutes later, and didn't wake up again for 13 hours after that. Woke up 9am monday feeling incredibly groggy and when the groggyness lifted i felt quite sketched. E-mailed my boss telling her i couldn't make it and went in tuesday still feeling pretty shitty, by friday I was back to normal. I tried all my herbal tricks including 5-htp, SJW, kava, and a few others and they moderated the hangover but did not cure it.

I used to think M1/B1 were better and easier on the system than MDMA but now I must withdraw that view. I think M1 is okay for taking 100mg or so for a social lift when going to a get-together but never am i going to try to extend the experience by taking boosters no matter how small they are. I generally find 1 dose of MDMA lasts me long enough that boosters are not needed/desired and I find the empathic high more mellow and authentic (even though i don't find MDMA authentic compared to psychs, i just find it more authentic than M1/B1), AND the hangover is a LOT easier. One of the main reasons i find the MDMA hangover not that bad is that I usually have a nive afterglow effect with MDMA, even though i feel physical serotonin depletion, there is a mental/spiritual glow that carries me through the week. M1/B1 for me has the physical serotonin depletion without the glow. YMMV

Pharmalogically I definitely feel M1 has a much higher DA:5HT/NE:5HT ratio than MDMA, same goes for B1, but with B1 there is a Signifigantly higher NE activity which make me question whether i will take it again. If i do it will likely be in the middle of the day when I'm outside doing a lot of work/play, i sometimes use ephedrine for this purpose, B1 could very well end up as an ephedrine alternative for me :p
 
the pitfalls?

For me, the 'empathogen phase' is great...about as good as MDMA with minor differences (less pushy empathy), but it last but 45 minutes, and even a first and second redose do little to add to the empathogenesis. Now, I like some stimulants, but i find the M1 stimulation to be fiendy, listless, and jittery.

Is B1 like this?

ebola
 
^^^ Yep, sure is. But it has less of an "empathogen phase" than M1 i used to find B1 nice on the M1 comedown because i felt it brought be down slower and helped integration but i must withdraw that. All in all, less empathogenisis, definitely more undirected jitteriness that seems to hang around long after the euphoric effect is gone.
 
uniter said:
But it has less of an "empathogen phase" than M1
Click to expand...

What doses are we talking about with B1 here? I don't think it's fair to compare the subjective effects of b1, m1 and mdma without first determining a standard solid dose for each. From the reports I have read on B1, people generally have been dabbling in a series of smaller doses which in my opinion yields less positive effects compared with taking just one solid dose to begin with.

For example, recently I just had 220mg bk-mbdb orally, and had a solid but gentle 4 hour empathetic high, followed by a further 2-3 hours of residual stimulation. I must admit, even at 100mg nasally I have found this to have strong affinity for NE, hence my vulnerability for often experiencing a "panic" feeling(I'm naturally not prone to getting any anxiety). I get the feeling NE seems to amplify the fight or flight response, which certainly caused unpleasant moments. Thankfully I could shake of this anxiety without too much effort. Anyhow in saying that, I still found 220mg mild compared to MDMA in many ways, so I would be inclined to say 250mg orally would be a preferable dose to really bring out the empathetic quality. I know, 250mg may sound high, but really, I believe this is still not asking for a comedown, as long as you resist a redose.
 
My most recent use of B1 has mostly has a follow up of M1 but when i tried B1 for the first time i took a 150mg dose on it's own right off the bat. 150mg of M1 gives me full-blown effects so just so you know for me 150 is a "full" dose.

I find it has a pleasant effect for the first while but it can be "teasing". It feels like it's gonna break into a full empathic state like M1 but doesn't quite break the seal. The edginess feels giddy and pleasant for a while but when the giddy/happy-ness is gone, I'm left with all the edginess without the positive side of the edginess that was previously enjoyed.

FWIW I'm 125lb and 5'11" and naturally have a high catecholamine activity so I'm quite sensitive to the stimulating and jittery side of these types of drugs. I can't stand mushrooms for this reason. They are known for eliciting a strong NE release in the come-up which for me translates into a panic attack before the primary effects of the shrooms even manifest and consequently sends me straight into and anxiety-ridden bad trip. Other psychedelics don't do this to me, at least no where near the scale that mushrooms do. I'm just trying to explain why maybe I get different results due to my different body chemistry.
 
Cripes, I honestly can't remember. This looks bad I realise. I have an inclination that I read it on here from a reputable poster. It was a long time ago and it's just a piece of info that stuck with me because I agreed with it based on my own subjective experience.

For me the come-up of mushrooms is very anxious/panicky, it smooths out once i hit plateau but the first 1.5 hours is usually quite unpleasant and feels very much NE based. Other psychedelics do not do this to me, including other tryptamines which is strange because they have the same mechanisms of action.

I dunno whether it's some toxic reaction to something in the fungal body or what but I have a feeling it could be, I love chemically pure tryptamines, they give me fantastic effects. I haven't had a chance to try pure 4-HO-DMT or 4-ACO-DMT but they're on my to-do list for sure, curious to see if they give me the same reaction but i have a feeling they won't because other chemically pure tryps are smooth sailing for me.

It's funny that i get this reaction to mushrooms (and only mushrooms) when everyone else like them so much. I guess from now on I'm just gonna keep my mushroom racism to myself and stop spoiling everyone's fun :p

Sorry about the fact without citation, I'm sure i read it on here from a frequent and trustworthy poster.
 
uniter said:
My most recent use of B1 has mostly has a follow up of M1 but when i tried B1 for the first time i took a 150mg dose on it's own right off the bat. 150mg of M1 gives me full-blown effects so just so you know for me 150 is a "full" dose.
Click to expand...

Try 200mg, it sounds like you didn't break through, because you may of took slightly too less. My friend whom is very small and ultra sensitive (can get off on 40mg mdma orally) found 130mg to be a little on the mild side. I'm not sure how you can claim 150mg to be a full dose of b1 if you said it lacked the empathetic qualitys, you can't be sure that its a lack of quality for b1, rather than quantity until your tried a wide range of higher doses.
 
^^^ hmm usually with empathogens the higher the dose the more "speedy" effects get amplified. I once took 200 mg of M1 and while the peak was great i found it didn't have much more empathogenisis than 150, but it did have a stronger and more prolonged excess stimulation. The reason I don't want to take more than 150 of B1 is because 150 is jittery as hell, i most definitely don't want to get more jitters.

If I'm already at full bore jitters without much empathy, a higher dose is only going to create more jitters. Compare 150 of MDMA to 250. Does 250 really have that much more empathy than 150? not really (for me anyways). Does it have more excess stimulation and hangover?..Oh yeah. And i'm 120lb and 5'11" with a predisposition to jitters/anxiety when sober, so i'm pretty sensitive. 150 is the ceiling, that is my ideology, i know my body, more wont help.

I see B1 the way Solipsys does; as a good piggyback for combos around the 40mg mark, but I don't have much desire to take a full dose of it as a drug on it's own. Next time i try it in combo, i'll have to try smoking some herb to smooth the jitters and consciously channel the energy
 
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