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Nootropics The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread (Stack 2)

The thing with armodafinil is that it doesn't create any appreciable high or euphoria, and it's those sort of drugs I've often struggled to stop using. But it does create some kind of enthusiasm which my PAWS riddled brain clings to so we'll see how i go on my upcoming days off. I anticipate irritation and laziness....!

You guys that are taking noopept- what sort of dosing and are you just taking it orally? I'm reading about increased efficacy when taken sublingually...
 
I prefer noopept nasally, it only takes 10-20mg when taken that way and it has a noticeable light stimulant effect and clear nootropic activity. I find it works the best that way.

Anyone tried bromantane? I got some today, pretty hesitant given the speculation about Alzheimer's... But it sounds nice, an adaptogen with stimulant and anxiolytic properties. Anyone with experience with this compound?

I got bromantane once. I was also underwhelmed, not positive it was beyond placebo. I didn't take it daily though. I got prolintane once, and that stuff is a straight up stimulant. But not sure how related they are.

I got my selank amidate the other day, and some MK-677 (has several effects including increasing your body's production of growth hormone and IGF). Now that I can drive again I'm about to get back to the gym regularly. Haven't really noticed a lot with the MK-677 (I've only taken it 2 days though, this is the second day), however I have been feeling quite positive and stable. The selank is nice, very rapid effects, slightly stimulating, motivating, makes my vision look clearer. It reminds me of semax but more pronounced. I had a very stressful day today (all day was spent breaking through red tape to get my driver's license back, buy a car, and all the stuff along with that) and although it was annoying, I didn't really get anxious throughout the entire day. Which is noteworthy as I have been having anxiety a lot lately (SO much stuff going on in my life right now, I'm adulting pretty hard).

Hard to say for sure, but I'm liking these past 2 days (I started using both yesterday).
 
Fuck yea, Xorkoth! I'm glad you're liking them. Do keep us updated on the MK-677, I've not tried it nor read a bunch on it.

I think I'm on day 4 or 5 of using 100-150ug Adamax, 375-450ug NA Selank Amidate, and 1.5-2mg Noopept every morning, and I've been having the best days. Tons of energy, much lower stress and agitation, more ease and openness to life, and generally just better days.

Ah, regarding Noopept nasal dosage, either it's much more easily absorbed when in a spray, or the powders have fillers (apparently this is a common thing with peptides from China, they're cut with Mannitol) but the nasal spray dosage pretty much everywhere online is 1.5-3mg 3x a day.
 
You guys just inspired me to order some semax and selank ?

but the nasal spray dosage pretty much everywhere online is 1.5-3mg 3x a day.

it only takes 10-20mg when taken that way and it has a noticeable light stimulant effect and clear nootropic activity.

Quite a difference in the doses you guys are using...

I've got the 10mg caps, I hate snorting so will probably try sublingual... I wonder how hard making it a spray is?

It's really hard to figure out how noopept works. I'm tapering pregabalin and get concerned with some nootropics and purported glutaminergic effects of some of them. Not sure what the deal with noopept is in that sense but I've avoided taking fasoracetam because of the apparent GABA B effects.

On that note, any of you sexy folks taken fas?
 
Well the powder definitely seems like it has some chalkiness to it, I get some of it seeming to remain behind. Nasal spray is much better at absorbing I'm guessing.

When I was withdrawing from phenibut I tried fasoracetam, and I think it worsened the anxiety. I was reading conflicting reports. A lot of people say it helps after you're through withdrawal to upregulate he receptors faster. I haven't tried it because I'm still using phenibut once a week and I experience some rebound a lot of the time for a couple of days on the 2nd and 3rd days after.

I'm feeling really motivated to wake up tomorrow and go to the gym. MK-677 is said by many to produce a deeper, higher quality of sleep, which I hope is true because I tend to have more and more trouble sleeping deeply as I get older. I'm looking so much forward to getting back to the gym, I've missed it a lot and now I can finally drive myself there. My friend says he loves it, he used to inject human growth hormone IM and he says MK-677 is pretty similar in result but more subtle. He said it just made him feel good and healthy and strong, and sleep better and have a more even temperament. He's basically he reason why I'm giving it a shot. Give me a pep in my step to pull my shit together from all the crazy stuff that's been going on the past couple of years.
 
Epitalon apparently increases deep sleep by a ton. Though, I'm not sold that increasing telomeres - the main reason people take it - is necessarily a good thing.

ou guys just inspired me to order some semax and selank

Nice! Do be mindful of the versions you buy. There's Semax, NA Semax, NA Semax Amidate, and Adamax (NA Semax Amidate with an Adamantane moiety that further increases potency). And Selank, NA Selank, and NA Selank Amidate. The N-Acetyl versions are more potent, and the NA x Amidate versions are supposedly more anxiolytic. Adamax is 6-7x more potent than the other versions, and requires a dosage of only 100-300ug, though I can't imagine going higher than 150ug as that's pretty strong as is.
 
Off-topic but as someone with a similar proclivity for and usage frequency of ketamine as well as a familial history of Alzheimer's I have to throw this out there:
Damn, as if I needed another reason to be concerned about my ketamine use! :LOL: Thanks for that though, interesting stuff.


Also, since I brought it up in another thread, anyone else dabble in PRL-8-53?
I use it sporadically for a few weeks at a time. I do not believe that I've ever felt anything from it though, it's something I take or have taken more because of it's possible long term benefits (ie, improved memory) than because I'm expecting any acute effects (and to my knowledge, again, I've never felt any). As far as the memory effects go, I think I have a pretty good memory anyway but I've never tried to measure if PRL-8-53 has induced any improvements in any kind of scientific way.
 
What is PRL-8-53 supposed to do? Never heard of it.

I went back to the gym this morning for the first time in like 4-5 months. Now, I've stayed somewhat in shape because of being a musician, tons of hauling really heavy gear all the time. But I must say I fell right back into the groove and I feel great now. Seemed like I was able to pick up basically right where I left off, except with a little less stamina. I've been dividing a 20mg/day dose of MK-677 into 10mg in the morning, 10mg at night, and 200-300ug of selank amidate in the morning (will probably lower it though as it is quite effective and I'm not so sure more than 1-2 spritzes changes it much). Looking forward to seeing how it plays out. I bought some post-workout protein powder too, hoping to put back on some muscle I lost fairly rapidly and go from there. Get toned again and increase a little mass, that's all I want. :)
 
tl;dr Here's a heads up, a friend of mine just tested some isopropylphenidate that they just bought off of the clearnet, and it tested positive for fentanyl.

A friend texted me that they just purchased some IPPH from a clearnet vendor that in April 2018 was found to be selling IPPH contaminated with fentanyl. They only remembered this after finalizing the order. I urged them to test for fentanyl with some test strips. I reminded them to check the ratio if water to IPPH, because insufficiently dilute solutions might produce a false positive.

They ran three tests, with the last dilution less than 1mg/mL. All three tests indicate the presence of some amount of fentanyl. They ran a test using just water, which tested negative for fentanyl.

I just spoke with the Mitchell Gomez from DanceSafe on the topic, and he wanted to stress that:

A) some amount of fentanyl or fentanyl analog is definitely present

B) there may be enough to kill you, or there may be so little that you don't even feel it, especially if you have opioid tolerance.

That said, I'd presume the stuff isn't in there intentionally, so it's probably not evenly mixed. I imagine that means that you could potentially use the same stuff from the same bag a dozen times with no ill effect and overdose the thirteenth.
If you don't have fentanyl test strips, you might want to get some if you purchased IPPH this year. Might also be good to keep some naloxone around the house and try not to use alone, especially the first time.

Also, I wanted to test my previously tested batch of IPPH with different ratios to see if I could get a false positive at any concentration, but I'm out right now. If anyone has tested fentanyl-free IPPH and some test strips, it'd be helpful to see if there's a concentration where they can be made to produce a false positive like amphetamines can.

At the end of the day, I'm really disappointed that a vendor who had a known case of fentanyl adulterated IPPH would release more on the market 2+ years later without testing it first.

Edit: Also, my friend heard back from them regarding the positive tests for fentanyl, and they are sticking to the claim that there is no fentanyl present.

Link to photos of the test:
 
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Probably just shitty manufacturing practices, but COME ON! This already happened once before!
 
Update: So I finally found both my fentanyl test strips and my own batch of what I have always assumed to be IPPH. I had tested it before, but my test batch was more dilute than that which my friend used, probably too dilute.

I used 20mg IPPH in 10mL of water, and got a fent positive result. I further diluted to 20mg in 20mL and still got a positive result. If this is a false positive, and I suspect that it may be, then to my knowledge IPPH is generating a false positive at a greater dilution than any other substance tested by DanceSafe so far.

My friend is submitting their sample to Energy Control, so we should know for certain soon, but this puts me a little more at ease.

Link to photo of my test: https://giphy.com/gifs/YnMBTI4QPugPPoua90
 
I wonder why isopropylphenidate would cause a false positive for fentanyl? They're really not very similar molecules at all. Seems odd.
 
Well the powder definitely seems like it has some chalkiness to it, I get some of it seeming to remain behind. Nasal spray is much better at absorbing I'm guessing.

When I was withdrawing from phenibut I tried fasoracetam, and I think it worsened the anxiety. I was reading conflicting reports. A lot of people say it helps after you're through withdrawal to upregulate he receptors faster. I haven't tried it because I'm still using phenibut once a week and I experience some rebound a lot of the time for a couple of days on the 2nd and 3rd days after.

I'm feeling really motivated to wake up tomorrow and go to the gym. MK-677 is said by many to produce a deeper, higher quality of sleep, which I hope is true because I tend to have more and more trouble sleeping deeply as I get older. I'm looking so much forward to getting back to the gym, I've missed it a lot and now I can finally drive myself there. My friend says he loves it, he used to inject human growth hormone IM and he says MK-677 is pretty similar in result but more subtle. He said it just made him feel good and healthy and strong, and sleep better and have a more even temperament. He's basically he reason why I'm giving it a shot. Give me a pep in my step to pull my shit together from all the crazy stuff that's been going on the past couple of years.
I’ve used mk-677 for the past few months everyday except for when I forget to take it. I diluted 1 gram in 500 ml of vodka and water 50/50. I use between 10 and 20mg a day, I started with 10 and worked my way up, I don’t notice too much difference between doses. I now take around 12-15mg usually.
In the beginning taking it during the day would make me feel lethargic and hungry. I was going for the hunger because I’m trying to put on weight and muscle at the gym and I’m pretty sure our same friend told me it might help. The lethargy made me decide to eventually start to take it at night. My sleep did get better, I started to remember my dreams often even though I smoke weed. I haven’t put on weight but did lose fat and gain muscle, though I think that has more to do with working out and drinking less. I’m down to about 200mg, after that I’ll take a break for a month or two and hop back on. I like feeling hungry, growth hormone has mostly positive effects so why not?
 
I've been dividing the dose at 10mg at night and 10mg in the morning. I just started working out consistently again finally so we'll see how it goes.
 
Phenylpiracetam for me, thank you. Expression of D2 for 29% and D3 for 62% in substantia nigra and the striatum, good enough for me. 16006
 
Hey guys,

I'm in my early 30s and never really took any nootropics or other cognitive/physical enhancers outside of standard diet.
I now have a plan to build my own stack and would be nice to get some of your suggestions.
For now I'm sure to start with Aniracetam and some cholinergic. Initially I wanted to stack with Adrafinil, but I decided I don't really need an eugeroic that much and it would be less viable as a long-term everyday choice, so I plan to stack with a second racetam. My initial guesses for now are Coluracetam/Oxiracetam. Would it make sense? I will probably add either L-Tryptophan or 5-HTP in moderate dosages for mood boost and serotonin regeneration (as I recently had my 1st MDMA experience and plan to repeat maximum every 2,5-3 months). Also creatine, which has a very mild mental effect from what I know, but because it's very cheap and I also work out from time to time, I guess it will help.
In general, what I look for is #1) memory-based enhancement (as memory recall was always my weakest mental ability), #2) better concentration/focus/productivity, less distraction, #3) general cognitive/reasoning/analytic enhancement, #4) anxiolytic and socially relaxing effect/social flow (I know it may be slightly exclusive with #2), #5) wakefulness promotion (least important, if can be present without lessening the previous points, then it's welcome).

So my questions are:
1) Would citicoline or centrophenoxine be a better cholinergic to stack with racetams?
2) Which other racetam would stack best with Aniracetam, in your opinion/experience, for the specified goals?
3) PsychonautWiki lists Aniracetam to last on average 4h while Oxiracetam 3h. TripsitWiki says Ani 3h vs Oxi 5h. Which one is closer to reality?
4) What other additions to the stack would you suggest which are safe long-term, stack well with others from the list and have noticeable above placebo effects? I'm thinking of galantamine & ALCAR. Do AMPAkines (sunifiram, unifiram, IDRA-21), PRL-8-53, Dihexa, 9-me-bc, or herbs like rhodiola, ashwagandha, gotu kola have some use to them?
 
1) I like centrophenoxine, it has nootropic effects of it own in addition to providing a source of choline. Citicoline is just much more readily absorbed choline, I believe. So it's a great choline source but I'd probably prefer centrophenoxine. But I haven't had centrophenoxine in many years and I only had citilone recently. Centro used to be a part of my stack, when I had a stack.

2) I haven't tried a lot of them but honestly piracetam is a nice nootropic, I like it, it's my go-to because it's more well-studied and it works. But I find noopept to be about as good a nootropic as there is. It is slightly stimulating, and works very well to increase word recall, multitasking ability, speech and general quickness and ease of though. I like to snort it, though sublingual is better for your nose. But snorted it's way more effective, 10-15mg is a really nice boost and a great morning starter. Damn, I haven't had it in years, I think I'm gonna buy some.

3) Honestly I can't pinpoint an exact duration for most nootropics. The effects are very subtle, it's not like "oh man I came down". It's not the kind of effect you really notice that much unless you look for it, or look back and realize how easy it was to just solve a problem or get work done or whatever.

4) I have some suggestions. There are so many possibilities. First I'll say, galantamine is cool for increased dream recall but it does mess with my sleep, basically it makes me sleep so lightly that I sort of wake up a lot all night, which is the sort of sleep where I have the most vivid dreams by far. But I feel less well-rested, I think it must mess with your sleep cycle. I can't recommend a daily use of it. I have experience with ALCAR and found it nice. I can't remember specifically what effects it had, as it's been like 12 years since I have taken any. Honestly most of these ride the line of placebo, they have the kinds of effects that may be very noticeable if you're suffering from serious brain fog or something, but that are generally very subtle and extremely background. The ampakines are more drug-like than most things classed as nootropics. Sunifiram is a stimulant, moreso than phenylpiracetam. I don't think it's really very good for you.

I take L-theanine every day. L-theanine is an amino acid and completely safe to take, in fact some studies have shown it to demonstrate protective effects on the liver, specifically preventing some of the damage from acetaldehyde (alcohol's toxic metabolite which is responsible for most of its toxicity). It is used by the body as a precursor to GABA and dopamine. It is a safe relaxation aid, it helps you relax and sleep (but it doesn't make you tired), and it has a positive effect on mood. I find its effects more pronounced than most other supplements. It's a staple in my supplement supply.

Medicinal mushrooms - I get a powdered blend of 10 medicinal mushrooms fro my local food co-op, I can't remember all of them but they include Lion's Mane, Cordyceps sinesis, Turkey Tail, Reishi, and others. Some of these (like I think Turkey Tail) have demonstrated in research to shrink cancer tumors. Lion's Mane is very good at regenerating nerve cells. The benefits of medicinal mushrooms are quite amazing, really. I take 1 tsp of this mix once or twice a day. It is quite noticeable. I consider it probably the most important thing I consume.

Selank - there are more and less bioavailable forms, the best absorber is N-acetyl selank amidate (NA selank amidate), though it is less researched so it's probably safer to go with regular selank. Selank is a Russian-developed peptide, a complex protein that has various effects in the brain. Selank is quite noticeable and very nootropic. In addition to positive effects on brain functioning, it is very good against anxiety, both social anxiety and otherwise. It makes me feel motivation and mental stimulation kind of like an Adderall would, but not so strongly and without any physical effects really, and without a reinforcing nature or euphoria. it's more like an increased tendency towards well-being in your baseline state. Semax is another related compound that is stronger on the nootropic side but less good for anxiety.

I think people can tend to go overboard with their stacks. I used to have a stack of like 15 things, stacking a bunch of different nootropics. I think we should be careful, a lot of these things that come out have barely any or no history of human use, and we shouldn't assume they're all safe. These days I am not always taking a nootropic, as I find that after a good month or so of daily use I tend to need a reset for a while. And I don't know if it's ever good to introduce substances that alter he ways our brain function on a daily long-term basis without breaks for it to operate unaltered. An exception is supplements just providing additional building blocks for body to use to create more natural resources (like choline suppliers and amino acids). I think these can be taken daily long-germ to good effect, and safely. What I take these days, when I'm on a nootropic cycle, is a nootropic (piracetam or noopept generally), with 100-150mg of caffeine in the morning, plus some L-theanine with that and if I ever feel anxious or tense. I take the mushroom powder blend, a greens blend, and a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar in water. I take 5-HTP if I have taken a serotonin releaser recently. I take a choline provider usually when I'm on a nootropic. Recently I have been taking an ashwaghanda extract, to try it out. At night I take L-theanine (I tend to have trouble sleeping as I get older). If needed, I also take oleamide (a great and seemingly harmless relaxation/anxiety/sleep aid), and sometimes L-tryptophan and/or melatonin. That's about it.

There are a number of beneficial herbs, my friend swears by ashwaghanda, I haven't really gotten anything too noticeable from it but it is an adaptogen, which basically helps the body/mind to handle stress smoothly. Rhodiola is one, too, and I do find it pretty effective, also as a mood lifter. There are lots of herbs with effects. They tend to be subtle on the level of nootropics, as in, placebo can be as powerful (placebo is not to be underestimated, after all, placebo pills help depression a significant percentage of the time). However some are very noticeable. For example, valerian makes me drowsy and is a muscle relaxer. I will get tired and relaxed when I take it. There is way too much to herbs than I can or want to communicate in this post but do some research, I'd be happy to give my thoughts on specific ones.

God that took forever to write. 8(

Phenylpiracetam for me, thank you. Expression of D2 for 29% and D3 for 62% in substantia nigra and the striatum, good enough for me.

I have gone through a small tub of phenylpiracetam. It's definitely a mild stimulant. I didn't find it reinforcing or recreational though, it was pretty good for motivation, but probably less nootropic than regular piracetam. More of a stim, but not a stim to do for fun. I never bothered to get more though I might sometime.
 
To add on to what Xorkoth said...

Selank - there are more and less bioavailable forms, the best absorber is N-acetyl selank amidate (NA selank amidate), though it is less researched so it's probably safer to go with regular selank. Selank is a Russian-developed peptide, a complex protein that has various effects in the brain. Selank is quite noticeable and very nootropic. In addition to positive effects on brain functioning, it is very good against anxiety, both social anxiety and otherwise. It makes me feel motivation and mental stimulation kind of like an Adderall would, but not so strongly and without any physical effects really, and without a reinforcing nature or euphoria. it's more like an increased tendency towards well-being in your baseline state. Semax is another related compound that is stronger on the nootropic side but less good for anxiety.

Semax is much more a nootropic than Selank. The former has beneficial effects for stress management while also being a cognitive enhancer, and the latter, while still a nootropic, is generally recognized more for it's stress management. As Xorkoth said, the N-Acetyl Amidate version of Selank is the most potent (Adamax is the most for Semax, it's N-Acetyl Semax Amidate with an Adamantane moiety on one end which greatly improves potency), but also the least studied. The safest bet is the originals, but they're much less potent so much more expensive. Also, lots of people have better effects with different versions. I went with Adamax and NA Selank Amidate.

Also, these are both Russian peptides, yes. But, peptides are not complex proteins, they are complex amino acids. Meaning they are a chain of amino acids. The difference between proteins and peptides is simply size, whereas peptides are very small chains of amino acids, say 2-10 (I don't know the cutoff) different amino acids, proteins are much bigger. Like 10-40. Again, making up numbers. But peptides are very small, and proteins are pretty huge in comparison.

I think people can tend to go overboard with their stacks. I used to have a stack of like 15 things, stacking a bunch of different nootropics. I think we should be careful, a lot of these things that come out have barely any or no history of human use, and we shouldn't assume they're all safe.

This is very true. Don't go overboard. Also, be careful with your choline/acetylcholine systems. Lots of people induce depression by messing with choline too much (I did for the first time last year, it sucked for about a week). I now only take Lion's Mane, Cordyceps, and Red Reishi mushrooms, a really good multivitamin (Pure Encapsulations O.N.E. Multivitamin), extra Iodine, canned sardines (DHA is mega important for brain health, and seafood based sources are best, sardines are cheapest and healthiest), and when I'm doing a cycle, Adamax, NA Selank Amidate, and Noopept.


Also, re: Semax, Selank, and Noopept. Semax and Selank should be taken in 10-14 day cycles with a minimum of 10 days between cycles. In Russia, one cycle is usually all that is prescribed, and then more cycles are given if needed. The creator of Noopept suggested - I think - three months on and than 1-2 months off - I think. Double check. But there's recommended cycles for each.
 
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