Social The mentality and thinking in being a sex-worker - ?

[JohnBoy2000]

To be clear, this is not an attempt to hold sex-work in conventional light of them all being poor exploited women.

Or to villainize the industry as being entirely degenerative.

There's an emergent contemporary mentality, not least of all amongst law and policy makers that "sex work is work".

Upon browsing some reddit forums dedicated to this style of work, I've began to try and figure out the actually thinking within the work, mentality associated with doing it, its sustainability; naturally it's been historically controversial and there are emergent case reports of potential psychological issues emergent with some long term workers, especially resulting from their discontinuation from or conclusion with sex-work.

However, the reasons for it's controversy are not particularly well defined and I believe may be quite counter intuitive in nature:

- By example, women coming out of the work into regular jobs I have come to believe can begin to miss the excitement, easy money and sense of purpose associated with having been in that line of employment; resultantly it's not trauma sustained over the time of being a sex worker that negatively impacts them when it's time to conclude their affairs, but rather the trauma of the psychological shift to more conventional living - where an inadequate transition can bring about that potentially self-compromising end result.

 

[arrall]

You do realize that a massive portion of sex workers are NOT women?

- By example, women coming out of the work into regular jobs I have come to believe can begin to miss the excitement, easy money and sense of purpose associated with having been in that line of employment; resultantly it's not trauma sustained over the time of being a sex worker that negatively impacts them when it's time to conclude their affairs, but rather the trauma of the psychological shift to more conventional living - an inadequate transition that can bring about that potentially self-compromising end result.

Do you have any evidence or examples to support these claims? Any sex workers who have said they experienced this?

 

[JohnBoy2000]

You do realize that a massive portion of sex workers are NOT women?

Do you have any evidence or examples to support these claims? Any sex workers who have said they experienced this?

The primary rhetoric around the industry is largely untrue.

I mean, prostitutes might tell you lies; no prejudice but it wouldn't be unusual.

The point is a large portion of the contention surrounding the sex trade, reasons for doing it and how they got into it etc., can be either somewhat of a hypocrisy, or a downright oxymoron.

.......

In discussing the issue and exploring it from an almost physiological, social, cultural approach, I was intending to shine better light on it's genuine nature, genuine rationale, get through the typical myths and obscure conjecture.

........

And yes I have brushed shoulders with sex workers that laughed at me when I contended 90% of them were coerced and they hated every client etc., many concealing but also many simply telling me they had become addicted to the sex and provided their clients were reasonably attractive, would often experience pleasure (not this conventional image of aversion to every "filthy pig" that would pay to "use" their body - I think that is one of the biggest myths of sex work).

 

[Mjäll]

Makes for an interesting thought, though i am hesitant to draw conclusions.

I can imagine the basic outrage over prostitution is still about the old sexual moralism and social repercussions against violation of sacred bonds, with the modern women's rights angle just being a sugar coating of those less "progressive" instincts against prostitution.

I think people have a way easier time identifying with caring than actually caring, and a way easier time bashing outgroups than caring. I think the villainization of sex-buyers is a way bigger draw than any actual care about prostitutes and their mental health.

The big difference is nowadays we shame the buyers rather than the sellers, which are instead victimized.

What i'm pretty sure about is that if we are to try and have a civilized and realistically gender neutral society, prostitution itself should be legal and at baseline treated like other jobs. Of course we should not deny the reality of any horrible working conditions, but neither should we assume them.

 

[Mjäll]

You do realize that a massive portion of sex workers are NOT women?

Do you have any evidence or examples to support these claims? Any sex workers who have said they experienced this?

I think it can be easily argued that using your personal sexuality to earn money can feel like a more purpose-driven career than going into some random impersonal manual labor or service profession.

It's not perfect or pretty, but i can see it being a thing potentially.

It could be a bit like playing basketball or producing music rather than being an accountant. You get to make a living doing something you are somehow passionate about, and actually good at (beyond mere disposable effort). Well at least for me personally i think i'm good at sex and it wouldn't be surprising if some prostitutes felt like that too. Also, that career involves pleasing other people on a different level than most... Again, of course, it's neither pretty nor perfect

 

[nznity]

You do realize that a massive portion of sex workers are NOT women?

Do you have any evidence or examples to support these claims? Any sex workers who have said they experienced this?

What sex are they then?
I'm curious

 

[Mjäll]

What sex are they then?
I'm curious

Men i suppose. Men prostitutes.

 

[Atomic_Decay]

I would be extremely hesitant drawing large scale conclusions of any kind about sex workers. At the moment almost all my friends seem to be sex workers and I spend an inordinate amount of time with them doing all kinds of things - more often things other than sex.

For example in the last week I spent 70 % of my time guiding two of these friends through their first acid trip - for which I paid for some of the time but not all.

There is an incredible difference in the psychology of a caucasian heroin addict cum child abuse victim doing street work to get her next shot versus a single mother from Shanghai working in as Asian brothel in Sydney for three strategic years to secure her child’s sducational and tfinancial future and her responsibilities to her elderly parents.

There is similarly a difference between an smoking hot 28 year old independent $2000 a night escort who selects her own clents and sees only one or two a week versus a 40 year old woman from a non-english speaking background working in a back streets knock shop serving whoever turns up a 20 minute suck and fuck for $60 a go.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

What i'm pretty sure about is that if we are to try and have a civilized and realistically gender neutral society, prostitution itself should be legal and at baseline treated like other jobs. Of course we should not deny the reality of any horrible working conditions, but neither should we assume them.

My experience is seeing prostitution in living color is/was mainly in Thailand, Amsterdam and here in the UK.

Amsterdams setup blatantly facilitates independent work, the windows, and honestly the location being the city center, one of the most scenic and historic settings in Europe, they're doing okay.

Thailand is 3rd world so it's difficult to compare.

And in the UK it's conducted largely through online mediums and workers are based out of apartments etc.

But........ working conditions:



Not expecting anyone to watch that but my eyes were opened in doing so.

I genuinely don't know how much truth there is to it but if there is, it's literally a world away from the setup in their neighboring Amsterdam/Netherland.

So yeah, maybe good working conditions for sex workers is a luxury confined to (some, at least) first world countries.

.......

In terms of historical stigma and my contention that sex workers do it cause in some cases, the girls in question actually NEED to do it, it's pretty much who-they-are......... but the channels they need to take to get into the work and conditions may be questionable........

Even then, I know for some girls the "down and dirty" and "seedy" aspect of being a prostitute has real appeal, they're basically indulging their dirty side so, I guess more clarification is sought after.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

Doing something they know or believe they're good at:

- I think it can definitely lend itself to a sense of purpose and empowerment, give them an identity.

Establishing ones identity seems to be of critical important in attaining emotional stability, which is an essential part of living.

........

Naturally I'm somewhat brain-storming, but as with that above clip and as the other poster hinted at, why would they leave a form of work that pays better, is easy, they enjoy and can feel good doing, for a form of work that pays far less, is more difficult and in no way contributes to having an identity or defining who one is?

(I think some girls take a large sense of empowerment from being considered "nasty girls" or "sluts").

i.e. having emotional control over men (emotional translating to sexual, controlling their sexual gratification), I believe can lend itself to the sense of being purposeful.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

"Down and dirty" contact with clients can also be comforting and gratifying for them as well (contrary to popular belief, as the media would have us believe they consider all clients filthy pigs, borderline rapists).

 

[fromuponpoppyhill]

All industries are exploitative of people and their labour, regardless of whether or not it's sex work or flipping burgers. It also happens that sex work is incredibly profitable and platforms to produce it independently (there by reducing that exploitation because you're the one in control) are becoming more readily available.

 

[arrall]

I would be extremely hesitant drawing large scale conclusions of any kind about sex workers. At the moment almost all my friends seem to be sex workers and I spend an inordinate amount of time with them doing all kinds of things - more often things other than sex.

For example in the last week I spent 70 % of my time guiding two of these friends through their first acid trip - for which I paid for some of the time but not all.

There is an incredible difference in the psychology of a caucasian heroin addict cum child abuse victim doing street work to get her next shot versus a single mother from Shanghai working in as Asian brothel in Sydney for three strategic years to secure her child’s sducational and tfinancial future and her responsibilities to her elderly parents.

There is similarly a difference between an smoking hot 28 year old independent $2000 a night escort who selects her own clents and sees only one or two a week versus a 40 year old woman from a non-english speaking background working in a back streets knock shop serving whoever turns up a 20 minute suck and fuck for $60 a go.

100%. I do not necesarrilly disagree with some of @JohnBoy2000's points about sex work being empowering for some sex workers. The problems here are with the massive generalizations.

All industries are exploitative of people and their labour, regardless of whether or not it's sex work or flipping burgers. It also happens that sex work is incredibly profitable and platforms to produce it independently (there by reducing that exploitation because you're the one in control) are becoming more readily available.

I think that independent sex work such as OnlyFans is far less exploitative than a woman doing work (sexual or not) for a boss.

i.e. having emotional control over men (emotional translating to sexual, controlling their sexual gratification), I believe can lend itself to the sense of being purposeful.

We've told you many times to stop spouting this "all women are manipulative and have an emotional edge" bullshit on here.

What sex are they then?
I'm curious

There are cis male, cis female, trans male, trans female, non-binary, intersex, etc sex workers. Sex workers can be any sex or gender.

even if they're trannies they're still men for me.

Well trans men are men, so great to hear!

 

[Atomic_Decay]

We've told you many times to stop spouting this "all women are manipulative and have an emotional edge" bullshit on here.

Men making such ugly generalisations have always been a problem in Sex, Love and Relationships. Especially when the subject of sex work comes up.

The only times I have been potentially manipulated by a sex worker in recent years is when I forgot I was meeting somebody at their place of work and over-romanticised the situation. Then, I found myself spending many more hours with her than I would have otherwise and stopped seeing any of her colleagues.

But I brought this on myself because I valued the not strictly sexual parts of the time together more than the sexual. Her smile, just holding her, mutual non-sexual touching, the humour in us trying to communicate in each other’s language, sharing photos of our daughter’s who are the same age.

After 4 or 5 hours together doing that, and when my time was nearly up, she would often begin to be more sexual and I usually but not always extended. my visit by a few more hours.

A cynic would say she just preyed on my romantic/friendship fantasies because it was easy work or even barely work compared to fucking all the randoms she might have had to otherwise and then seduced me to extend the time because she had no other customers waiting. Thus me being manipulated.

Maybe.

I actually asked her, several other ladies, and the boss about this and the answer is something along these lines…

1. All women hated this job.
2. Lots of people hate their job in different industries - not just sex work
3. It is possible to have better days and worse days in sex work. Even pleasant days.
4. For some women, a visit from @Atomic_Decay is the best day because he is a kind and undemanding gentleman who likes to laugh more than he likes to fuck. And when he does fuck his attitude is ‘ladies first’ …always. These ladies will take @Atomic_Decay over any other customer. Some actually want to fuck him on occasion after he has brightened their day. Not always though, it is important to remember.,
5. For some women @Atomic_Decay is a difficult customer for precisely the same reason. Their job is to satisfy men sexually and he seems unconcerned about being satisfied or not in any way they can comprehend. Thus, they keep trying to get him off sexually even when he says it does not matter. This includes encouraging him to stay longer if he has not cum yet/enough.
7. At the end of the day, the need to max out money made for time worked trumps everything. Nobody would take a discounted hour with the best customer in preference to a full price hour with the worst customer. This confused me for a long long time when I thought preferences on customer type might influence price elasticity. It doesn’t. Although when there are no other customers it sometimes does.

 

[Eligiu]

Hey, so I'm actually a trans male sex worker. I used to do more conventional stuff, now I'm much more a higher class escort.

My initial foray into sex work was actually to pay for my testosterone while homeless. I had no welfare payments and I needed the prescription filled. I'd sort of always known there was significantly higher interest in trans rather than cis sex workers, but I never thought it would apply to me.

I didn't initially engage with it as I (correctly) feared it would create a vicious cycle. Eventually my drug use increased with my introduction to intravenous meth and temporary access to heroin and I started in earnest.

I advertised on Craigslist personal back when this was a thing, and I'd deliberately make myself sound disgusting. 'ftm tranny slut' and shit like that so I would be sure to get people contacting me. I needed the drugs. Problem was, there was a huge power imbalance and it was obvious from the start. I got paid between $50-$150 to have sex with men old enough to be my dad, who would often deliberately misgender me in anger when I refused to wear women's clothing, and demand I refer to myself often as a 'dirty little girl's or 'daddys princess'. Often they wouldn't even let me shower after they were done, they'd just throw the money at me telling me to walk home.

It actually fucked me up so much because my original childhood trauma was being intentionally misgendered by way of being sexually abused as an assigned female person and it was blow by blow living it over and over again.

But I couldn't go without the money. When I went to rehab in late 2017 my friend begged me to stop doing sex work when he found out that was how I afforded the drugs. He bluntly stated he could imagine it resulting in a relapse. I promptly agreed.

I did a bunch of work on this in therapy over the years and eventually dipped my toes back in but in a very different nature. Now it isn't my main source of income. If I see two people in a week or two in two months I'm unbothered. I don't meet pushy clients, nor ones that don't respect the hours I have set for being contacted. I do not enagage with people who demand additional pictures, as I'm very upfront about being discreet and ensuring that for my clients. I am unwavering that if they bring up me being trans at any stage during sexual activities that their money is forfeit and the session over - I'm aware it's a fetish, but I don't actually have to hear it. They can book a another seperate session if they are so interested in it. I have had to adhere to that rule twice in 2 years. I don't agree to see anyone who thinks my prices are steep or I'm asking too much. I am literally the sole trans male sex worker in the entire stage on the agency website. my price is the market price and what I say is valid goes. If they dont want to pay, they can go without. I don't see people who try to get a bargain or ask me to do a 15 minute session because they don't want to pay for the full 30. And I never see people who don't pay me upfront. Most of all, I won't do outcall to a new client until I have a decent read on them.

A lot of the time I don't actually spend having sex these days. Coffee dates and dinner dates, listening to clients rant about work, hearing about impending divorces. Basic bitch stuff. Going on walks. They want the partner experience and I can provide it. And it's lucrative money for me when I want some extra cash. Even the sex stuff isn't bad anymore. I have a couple of clients my age or younger who just have really specific kinks, like one submissive guy who just begged me to twist his nipples for 30 min then he nutted in my sink because he's not allowed to cum while having sex, apparently. Weird but who am I to judge. I just get paid.

However I say this with full force. Do not do sex work to pay for basic necessities or anything you are unable to live without. Do not do it out of necessity. It will ruin your life and more and strip your soul from your body. You will learn new ways to hate yourself. Sometimes I left seeing clients crying about only being paid $150 because if I had gotten double that I'd have been able to afford enough heroin to try and kill myself.

If it does that much damage to you and you also have a trauma connection like I do, take a very extended leave of absence from it. Completely. I am seriously not lying when I said I didn't do it in 5 years. Not one single thing. Then when I did, I flipped it on its head. I made it my choice, with my rules, for my money, and my boundaries. No questions asked, no second chances.

The only way I am able to do it now is that I also do not enagage with it to have extra money for drugs again. It's just nice stuff. The last thing I bought myself was a Nintendo switch.

Sex work *is* work. But it has to fully be free and consenting. I find it liberating to have all the power in the relationship now because I have want they want and they have nothing really that I need.

However, it is important to remember that I also am in a unique position being asexual for the most part. So every once in a while when my sex drive would get triggered I'd find some random off Grindr and hook up with them. And I'd think the whole time 'fuck this is boring and a chore he should really be paying me' until it dawned on me. I could fix the bi monthly asexual desire, and get paid. It's a chore to me anyway. Why not get $500 for an hour of work with someone who wants to worship my body.

In short, do not recommend if you need to do this to make ends meet.

However if you can establish good personal boundaries and have no moral issues it's very flexible and lucrative.

Also lol did some guy just say trannies are all men? I love when tramsphobic people are so stupid and ignorant they compliment me without meaning to. Thanks man. Wanna talk to me about my tranny penis now too? I reckon it's super cool when I donate $50 to some guys fundraiser to help out since he seems in a bad spot then he reveals himself to be a full transphobe. Really makes me feel like money well spent. Should have donated it to my local trans group. But ah well, he can live in peace being aggressively tramsphobic to people like me for zero reason while knowing a gross disgusting tranny was kind enough to donate to him. Funny now the world works hey.

 

[SoCalShordie]

To be clear, this is not an attempt to hold sex-work in conventional light of them all being poor exploited women.

Or to villainize the industry as being entirely degenerative.

There's an emergent contemporary mentality, not least of all amongst law and policy makers that "sex work is work".

Upon browsing some reddit forums dedicated to this style of work, I've began to try and figure out the actually thinking within the work, mentality associated with doing it, its sustainability; naturally it's been historically controversial and there are emergent case reports of potential psychological issues emergent with some long term workers, especially resulting from their discontinuation from or conclusion with sex-work.

However, the reasons for it's controversy are not particularly well defined and I believe may be quite counter intuitive in nature:

- By example, women coming out of the work into regular jobs I have come to believe can begin to miss the excitement, easy money and sense of purpose associated with having been in that line of employment; resultantly it's not trauma sustained over the time of being a sex worker that negatively impacts them when it's time to conclude their affairs, but rather the trauma of the psychological shift to more conventional living - where an inadequate transition can bring about that potentially self-compromising end result.

Sex work is work. I’m 29. I’ve been stripping off & on since I was 18. I was an A list porn star from 2011-2016. Nothing to do with trauma. All to do with cashing in & capitalizing on what other females can’t. Never any shame attached to it in any way.

 

[fromuponpoppyhill]

Also lol did some guy just say trannies are all men?

Damn shame that this guy has to rely on tranny money for his fundraiser... Must be kind of emasculating no?

I agree thanks for the compliment, kind of uncool to lump in our trans sisters with us though I don't think they'd like that much.

 

[Eligiu]

Damn shame that this guy has to rely on tranny money for his fundraiser... Must be kind of emasculating no?

I agree thanks for the compliment, kind of uncool to lump in our trans sisters with us though I don't think they'd like that much.

My favourite thing in the world is when transphobes get so caught up in hating trans women because if they think one is hot who has a penis that makes them GAY so they just make believe they're men instead they forget that other trans people exist.

Like I always get people assuming I'm a trans woman because I pass so well as a cis man.


Edit: I've actually just finished dming privately to the poster who was tramsphobic earlier and I have to say after some initial reflectance and defensiveness he has actually acknowledged being transphobic, completely apologised, and wants to correct his behaviour and learn from his mistakes. We aren't on bad terms and he has learnt about some of the worse transphobia I experience and is horrified to hear of of. I explained he isn't a transphobe, he just holds transphobic views due to being raised in a society such as this one. So be won't go around saying death to trans people but some of his opinions may be a bit off. But I explained that all we expect is that if a trans person calls him out, then apologising, admitting his error, and rectifying the mistake is a perfectly valid response. I don't want any further animosity towards him because I think he's done a fantastic job turning his bigotry into understanding and I'm really happy with how this turned out.

 

[Eligiu]

I would be extremely hesitant drawing large scale conclusions of any kind about sex workers. At the moment almost all my friends seem to be sex workers and I spend an inordinate amount of time with them doing all kinds of things - more often things other than sex.

For example in the last week I spent 70 % of my time guiding two of these friends through their first acid trip - for which I paid for some of the time but not all.

There is an incredible difference in the psychology of a caucasian heroin addict cum child abuse victim doing street work to get her next shot versus a single mother from Shanghai working in as Asian brothel in Sydney for three strategic years to secure her child’s sducational and tfinancial future and her responsibilities to her elderly parents.

There is similarly a difference between an smoking hot 28 year old independent $2000 a night escort who selects her own clents and sees only one or two a week versus a 40 year old woman from a non-english speaking background working in a back streets knock shop serving whoever turns up a 20 minute suck and fuck for $60 a go.

Double posting to basically just restate everything written in this comment.

When I did sex work for drug money I was being exploited by fetishing creepy old men and underpaid and abused.

Now? I make the rules.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

Sex work is work. I’m 29. I’ve been stripping off & on since I was 18. I was an A list porn star from 2011-2016. Nothing to do with trauma. All to do with cashing in & capitalizing on what other females can’t. Never any shame attached to it in any way.

Prostitution being the form of sex work in question, some girls would swear blind it's only a job and they hate every client, tolerate them etc.

Others claim if the client is nice typically they'll enjoy the sex.
Some have actually said their body begins to crave it during a holiday or time off etc.

As best I can tell, some girls are just very sexually driven and enjoy getting down and dirty for a living.