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The mentality and thinking in being a sex-worker - ?

JohnBoy2000

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Thrill/excitation of the hustle.

This is my revised opinion of the attraction of being a sex worker, after my amphetamine assisted self-applied psychotherapy.

They probably don't get fired up for the majority of their clients

But the hustle is fun, exciting, motivating.
 
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Atomic_Decay

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.
Before you get modded again…you are expressing something that potentially stereotypes sex workers as a hard fact for which you have no evidence.

If you expressed the same thing as an hypothesis it would jar less with people.

And speakng of evidence … there are several former sex workers who have commented in this thread with information that both potentially disproves and proves your hypothesis.
 
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JohnBoy2000

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Before you get modded again…you are expressing something that potentially stereotypes sex workers as a hard fact for which you have no evidence.

If you expressed the same thing as an hypothesis it would jar less with people.

And speakng of evidence … there are several former sex workers who have commented in this thread with information that both potentially disproves and proves your hypothesis.

Yeah actually, maybe erase that quote box?

What were the proofs/disproofs?

Amphetamine -> I've processed a vast quantity of backlogged information in a relatively compact timeframe.
 

Atomic_Decay

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Skorpio

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About to go walk the dog, but I will quickly provide a very simplified version of the current scientific knowledge (Which is admittedly rather primitive, as we don't understand nearly as much as we could) on how LSD works on the brain.

Through 5HT2A agonism, LSD and other psychedelics desynchronize the default mode network which is generally active when people are daydreaming/lost in thought. For people with disorders such as Alzheimer's, Autism Spectrum Disorder, ADHD, depression/bipolar, anxiety, Borderline Personality Disorder, dissociative disorders, etc. the DMN is often overactive and extremely dysfunctional. Deactivation of the DNM takes people out of this default state of being where they are excessively self-focused and lost in thought and puts them more in touch with the world around them, their bodies, and their emotions. This could be the mechanism responsible for ego dissolution.

Another mechanism for the neurological changes of psychedelics are the increased connections between many different parts of the brain that are not traditionally communicating with each other (in addition to doing the exact opposite to the default mode network as we just talked about.) This is likely responsible for the hyperemotionality and increased imagination that LSD seems to cause in most people. @Skorpio tends to know more about this stuff than I do, so he can correct me if I've made any missteps here.

While psychedelics CAN cause both muscle tightness/contractions and hypersexuality, I would guess that the effects @Atomic_Decay observed (or at least the intensity of said effects) were most likely due to the combination of LSD with methamphetamine.


Understandable. I believe I edited out the parts from your past few posts that I found to be violations of the rules. Just try to refrain from generalizations (particularly negative ones) about different groups from now on (e.g. 'Most women' or 'Women' or 'All women'). You should also present your ideas as your subjective opinions rather than objective fact. So 'I notice that some women may have a tendency to do _' instead of 'Women do _'. These discussions are very interesting to have, but it is important to make sure that we aren't prejudicing certain groups in the process.


Sounds about right. Always good to see a Robin Carhart-Harris paper cited. She does good work.
 

Kellsee

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I think my biggest problem is that I don't think I deserve any better because of how I've handled my life. And my interest in bad boys comes from empathy more then anything else. I can usually relate to a lot of what they've been through and can understand how they've became how they have. But the difference in what makes us work or not seems to come down to how they've allowed everything to shape their perception. They are always the victim. I've chose to be a survivor.
 

Kellsee

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Op might be a little biased. I feel you've possibly been hurt by a female and it's affected your understanding of us. I could be wrong tho
 

blistersinthedark

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I don't have any experience on either side of the trade but I did read King Kong Theory and found it to be a fascinating insight into the mind of a sex worker (in the 90s, mind you) with some excellent broader points about the capitalist world at large and its myriad oppressions. Wondering if anyone else is familiar with the text.
 

Atomic_Decay

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I don't have any experience on either side of the trade but I did read King Kong Theory and found it to be a fascinating insight into the mind of a sex worker (in the 90s, mind you) with some excellent broader points about the capitalist world at large and its myriad oppressions. Wondering if anyone else is familiar with the text.
I have not read it, but might now - thanks for the reference. I think the only book-length first-person account of being a sex worker was Christiane F. I read that at 14 years old which might have been a bit young.

I have a few times thought about doing my post-doctorql project on Asian meth-using sex workers in Australia: theoretically and historically anthropology deals with the social and cultural ‘other’ so it should not matter that I am a 50+ year old white man - but in the present academic climate I don’t think it would ever be approved on ideological grounds let alone ethical grounds - particularly if I proposed to do it with my friends as the subjects. Men are now actively discouraged from researching women here.

One thing I am really interested in doing is researching the differences between heroin-addicted sex workers (most often white historicaly here) funding their addiction and meth-using sex workers (now most commonly Asian) selling to and using meth with clients for different reasons but generaly focussed on amassing as much financial security as they in as short an amount of time as possible.
 

Eligiu

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I have not read it, but might now - thanks for the reference. I think the only book-length first-person account of being a sex worker was Christiane F. I read that at 14 years old which might have been a bit young.

I have a few times thought about doing my post-doctorql project on Asian meth-using sex workers in Australia: theoretically and historically anthropology deals with the social and cultural ‘other’ so it should not matter that I am a 50+ year old white man - but in the present academic climate I don’t think it would ever be approved on ideological grounds let alone ethical grounds - particularly if I proposed to do it with my friends as the subjects. Men are now actively discouraged from researching women here.

One thing I am really interested in doing is researching the differences between heroin-addicted sex workers (most often white historicaly here) funding their addiction and meth-using sex workers (now most commonly Asian) selling to and using meth with clients for different reasons but generaly focussed on amassing as much financial security as they in as short an amount of time as possible.

Hmm perhaps I can find you a case study in a meth and heroin addicted friend who was doing sex work to fund her gram a day (of both) habit.

In terms of the drugs specifically, I think heroin addicted sex workers would do it more out of a sense of desperation, more so than meth. Hard to say really. When I did sex work to buy drugs it was really ostensibly for heroin/opiates as that was what I was physically dependant on, meth just came as an afterthought with the bonus cash.

And the type of sex work I did, I had to *really* need the drug. I just don't have that drive with meth, I use it, but when I don't have money I never sell myself for it, I just wait a week or so until I have cash to spare.

Maybe part of it has to do with using the meth as part of the experience? A heroin addicted sex worker is likely to do the job(s) and scarper once they've got their payment, content to go and score then quickly get well.

A meth addicted sex worker? Well, many times meth is part of the booking, so I've learnt. It isn't unusual for either party to provide it. So they're obviously inclined to work more clients to get access to more meth.

I think my guess would be heroin addict workers would get whatever money is needed and not much more. Meth addict workers will continue and continue until they're stopped by some outside force
 

JohnBoy2000

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I'll round out my contribution to this discussion with my conclusion that:

Probably the foremost consideration in becoming a sex worker is that, a girl has enough "know how" and "x-factor" as it were, where she feels she can reliably turn on clients.

i.e. she feels she good enough at sex, where she can use it to make a living.

If she's good at it = probably going to enjoy it, which makes making a living off it, probably enjoyable as well in its own right.

.......

And the fact that someone can do something they feel they're good at, and enjoy, through which they can attain financial security and have a good quality of life - I'd imagine it feels empowering.

So for some, being a sex-worker probably feels like the obvious choice.
 

arrall

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I'll round out my contribution to this discussion with my conclusion that:

Probably the foremost consideration in becoming a sex worker is that, a girl has enough "know how" and "x-factor" as it were, where she feels she can reliably turn on clients.

i.e. she feels she good enough at sex, where she can use it to make a living.

If she's good at it = probably going to enjoy it, which makes making a living off it, probably enjoyable as well in its own right.

.......

And the fact that someone can do something they feel they're good at, and enjoy, through which they can attain financial security and have a good quality of life - I'd imagine it feels empowering.

So for some, being a sex-worker probably feels like the obvious choice.
I don't think that this is necessarily incorrect but I think that it is missing something. Remind me to explain in a day or two when I'll have the time.
 

JohnBoy2000

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I don't think that this is necessarily incorrect but I think that it is missing something. Remind me to explain in a day or two when I'll have the time.

I agree, there is something missing

- Using their body to make money, having that level of control and manipulation = a rush, empowering, can be addictive.

Edit: re-revised edition on 1st May - 2022.
 
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arrall

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I agree, there is something missing

- She enjoys sex, she’s good at = can use it to make a living = feels empowering.

Revised edition.
They also need to feel that sex work is the field that gives them the best balance of skill, ease, and income feasibility. In many cases, almost like they feel that their worth is greatest as a sexual object.

Which brings up some questions:
Is sex work really the best way that this person can add value to society?
What past experiences does a person have to go through to feel that their greatest value is in sex?
Are there ways in which we as a society allow/encourage this person to feel like they are primarily a sex object?


EDIT: Improved wording.
 
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Kellsee

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Im trying to understand so I can contribute to what you are pursuing with this thread but I am just so confused about your intentions with this topic.



Why do you care about the mentality of sex workers? You want to know why they do what they do?? Why??

You are wanting to exchange rhetoric on the philosophical nature of prostitutes?


It's the other words you also use.....they throw red flags for me. Tbh I don't like discussing topics of this nature with someone using words like exploiting...villianize....derogatory...empowering, etc.

Especially including trauma

Plus you are formatting it all like a pub med cheatsheet...like you are validating your own assumptions with scientific citations lol. Idk. Maybe I am just mentally retarded.

And not everything is about derived power

This left a bad taste in my mouth
 

Eligiu

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Im trying to understand so I can contribute to what you are pursuing with this thread but I am just so confused about your intentions with this topic.



Why do you care about the mentality of sex workers? You want to know why they do what they do?? Why??

You are wanting to exchange rhetoric on the philosophical nature of prostitutes?


It's the other words you also use.....they throw red flags for me. Tbh I don't like discussing topics of this nature with someone using words like exploiting...villianize....derogatory...empowering, etc.

Especially including trauma

Plus you are formatting it all like a pub med cheatsheet...like you are validating your own assumptions with scientific citations lol. Idk. Maybe I am just mentally retarded.

And not everything is about derived power

This left a bad taste in my mouth

I too, find the obsessive analysis upon the desires of people to engage in sex work unsettling.

Is there a function for this 'research'?

Are we honestly calling someone recalling their sexual experiences and a sex workers face flushing and eyes dilating during sex (which means notes cannot be accurately taken due to the current activities) and causing issues in memory recall and the high possibility of false recollection, especially considering a person who is engaging in sex likely wants to view themselves as providing pleasure to the other person.

I simply cannot accept you describing the times you had sex as actual research. I'm sorry.

You can say that it informs your information or opinion, or that it played a role in your assumptions.

But you cannot frame it as an objective reality.
 

Atomic_Decay

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I know that @JohnBoy2000 has a longstanding theoretical and applied interest in understanding human sexuality. He has maintained one of most extensive and regularly updated BL blogs for years dedicated to his thinking on these matters.

Personally I think it’s a good thing that he has made the move from compiling his own thoughts largely for himself in the blog and ventured into the main forums in an attempt to elicit the knowledge and opinions of other people and feed that into his project.

I kind of saw this thread as maybe ‘baby steps’, for want of a better term, in mainstreaming (in BL at least), his work.

That said, I have also thought there is an unacknowledged subtext in this thread regarding @JohnBoy2000 ’s experience with, and subequent feelings about, sex workers as paying customer. I did give him a prod earlier on to be more transparent about this. However, he indicated he is uncomfortable discussing such things in a public forum - which is not unreasonable.

My hypothesis, and it is a very loose one as I do not know @JohnBoy2000 very or much about his life, is that he has come to perceive women, specifically through the singular lens of their sexuality and sex-linked behaviour as a mysterious and possibly malevolent ‘unknowable other’.

I find this perspective, which is actually not that uncommon amongst BL members if you read through a few years of SLR posts, hard to understand as I am much more comfortable with women than I am with men and connect with them far more easily. I tend not to separate the world into males and females except when there is some pragmatic, practical, or common sense reason to do so (or it is a question of my own sexual interests).

So I’d kind of give @JohnBoy2000 a bit of credit for being up-front and fairly transparent about his prejudices. And further credit for making the quite brave and socially risky move of working through them in public and inviting others to participate.
 
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