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Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

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Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
675
I Just got popped for benzos in an urine analysis. About a month ago i told myh worker im having a great deal of problems with benzos. I managed to cold turkey a 3 week bender of ca. 10mg xanax per day. I felt like dying for a week and a half.

Then sutpidly i started again i'm almost in t exact same situation (this times it might be little less than 3 weeks but bot much). I've been using 1'0mg or more xanax per day + a lot of midazolam on top of it.

I immediately sold my 30 pcs of 1mg xannies to get rid of them but i was left with some 2mg clonazepam (Rivotril/Klonopin) tabs. I've had already 3 of them today and they barely hold me from the alprazolam withdrawals. It's a shitty situation and i don't know how to make this as bearable as possible for myself. I have a meeting tomorrow with my worker (im a patient in an opipoid maintenance clinic). I'm on buvidal (the european buprenorphine depote injection, not sublocade) weekly 32mg and i do not want my medication to be altered (like going back on 'xone or worse, methadone) or go to a detox. I'm positive i can tough it out myself even it's difficult, depressing and just shit. I guess i know more to morrow when i've talked to my worker. I still got 11 tabs of 2mg clonazepam left. It would ne nice to know di they expect my screening to be clean from benxos on next monday or the one after that. If it was the latter i could do a mini taper with my clonazepam which would be really helpfull but if not it¨s gonna becold turkey time. I'm depressed.
They are likely to retest you if you were positive last time. Did they give you a contract of some kind saying what would happen if you test positive?
It takes about four days to get benzos out of your system, I think so anyway, I've tested + for benzos after three days of not taking them, that was a little too soon. Drink plenty obvs.
If you're still positive at the next test, grovel. To keep your bupe.
I get 10mg bupe a week, trying to get down to 5mg a week, but I might give up on that idea, bupe is so functional to stay on.
Do they test for everything? Can you try kratom or something similar that won't show up in tests? I'm finding kratom useful now, bloody expensive though compared to my usual DOC.
 

LivingOnValium

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
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Location
Helsinki, Finland
They are likely to retest you if you were positive last time. Did they give you a contract of some kind saying what would happen if you test positive?
It takes about four days to get benzos out of your system, I think so anyway, I've tested + for benzos after three days of not taking them, that was a little too soon. Drink plenty obvs.
If you're still positive at the next test, grovel. To keep your bupe.
I get 10mg bupe a week, trying to get down to 5mg a week, but I might give up on that idea, bupe is so functional to stay on.
Do they test for everything? Can you try kratom or something similar that won't show up in tests? I'm finding kratom useful now, bloody expensive though compared to my usual DOC.
No there's no contract or ultimatum made yet. I know for a fact i will be placed in detox for 2 weeks in hospital if i don't want to get kicked out of the program (the other option will be switching to methadone, which i won't even concider. As why I will jus leave it to that just because i don't want to offend anyone on methadone. Besides it is the better medication for some people, which doesn't include me) I haven't really reached that point yet. I've been just told once what will happen if my relapses won't stop. Now its the 2nd time. I believe now it's the time it gets a bit more serious.

But the thing here is that i have been using clonzaepam as well, which is a long acting drug with a lengthy clearance time. It is not very realistic to assume all the clonazepam (detection time in urine time: 5-9 days but might be up to 30 days with excessive use) has left my system in a mere week if i tell them i've done it in huge doses. This isn't true however. I've used excessive amomunts of alprazolam (detection time in urine: 2-7 days) and some clonazepam on top of it. Also I have banged as much midazolam as I've got my hamds on. (very short acting, detection time 1-2 days)

Today i overheard the nurses talking about my screening. One asked if they want it lab tested (a computer operated HPLC-GC test that sees everything it's been programmed to detect). The other answered that just a quick test (the usual stick in a cup filled with pee) is ok and all they needed This might be because of i admitted my benzo use as soon as i was told i will be tested or not. So i know for fact they cannot differentiate between the benzos amount of metabolites detectable in the urine and/or are the amount of detectable metabolites going up or down. Essentially they have no reference points if they'll lab test me the next time.

The modern lab test (HPLC-GC) will detect everything it's been taught to detect. They only need to find about a new desinger drug (like 3-Me-PCP which actually isn't even new) run it's spectrum and save it on database. BOOM! Now it¨s available evereywhere nation wide. Kratom craze has been going on for at least 10 years now. They've know and been able to detect all the different kratom alkaloids years ago.

Edit: The detection times mentioned are the ones the Finnish National Health Care uses themselves.
 
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Bluelighter
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Feb 10, 2021
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675
No there's no contract or ultimatum made yet. I know for a fact i will be placed in detox for 2 weeks in hospital if i don't want to get kicked out of the program (the other option will be switching to methadone, which i won't even concider. As why I will jus leave it to that just because i don't want to offend anyone on methadone. Besides it is the better medication for some people, which doesn't include me) I haven't really reached that point yet. I've been just told once what will happen if my relapses won't stop. Now its the 2nd time. I believe now it's the time it gets a bit more serious.

But the thing here is that i have been using clonzaepam as well, which is a long acting drug with a lengthy clearance time. It is not very realistic to assume all the clonazepam (detection time in urine time: 5-9 days but might be up to 30 days with excessive use) has left my system in a mere week if i tell them i've done it in huge doses. This isn't true however. I've used excessive amomunts of alprazolam (detection time in urine: 2-7 days) and some clonazepam on top of it. Also I have banged as much midazolam as I've got my hamds on. (very short acting, detection time 1-2 days)

Today i overheard the nurses talking about my screening. One asked if they want it lab tested (a computer operated HPLC-GC test that sees everything it's been programmed to detect). The other answered that just a quick test (the usual stick in a cup filled with pee) is ok and all they needed This might be because of i admitted my benzo use as soon as i was told i will be tested or not. So i know for fact they cannot differentiate between the benzos amount of metabolites detectable in the urine and/or are the amount of detectable metabolites going up or down. Essentially they have no reference points if they'll lab test me the next time.

The modern lab test (HPLC-GC) will detect everything it's been taught to detect. They only need to find about a new desinger drug (like 3-Me-PCP which actually isn't even new) run it's spectrum and save it on database. BOOM! Now it¨s available evereywhere nation wide. Kratom craze has been going on for at least 10 years now. They've know and been able to detect all the different kratom alkaloids years ago.

Edit: The detection times mentioned are the ones the Finnish National Health Care uses themselves.
Real sorry they even test you for kratom :confused:
Best of luck, I hope they let you stay on the buvidal program.
 

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Bluelighter
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Feb 10, 2021
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Today is difficult.
I think I'll get out the kratom again. That's every day since I got it, along with bupe, it wasn't my intention to replace one drug with two substitutes.
My other meds might help now, or they might turn me into pacman. Time will tell.
I said I'd hold out until January, dunno if I can hold out until December.
I'm less likely to be stupid when stoned, also less likely to be useful, but I'll be calm.
Kratom first, then we'll see.
 

Nas47

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 29, 2021
Messages
688
Today is difficult.
I think I'll get out the kratom again. That's every day since I got it, along with bupe, it wasn't my intention to replace one drug with two substitutes.
My other meds might help now, or they might turn me into pacman. Time will tell.
I said I'd hold out until January, dunno if I can hold out until December.
I'm less likely to be stupid when stoned, also less likely to be useful, but I'll be calm.
Kratom first, then we'll see.
Dont you feel alrigh at subs?
 

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Bluelighter
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Dont you feel alrigh at subs?
Buprenorphine doesn't cover all the physical withdrawals and does nothing to cheer me up. I'm so used to being happy because I've got my DOC. Natural opium has 33 identified psychoactive alkaloids, last time I read about it. Morphine is one. Codeine is another, alongside 31 less famous siblings.
Pod tea, kompot, opium, anything unprocessed is different from pharma opioids.
To some it's a dirty high, to me it's perfect, every box ticked by those 33 alkaloids.
Problem comes when you try to replace it with something that only tackles the morphine withdrawal, like buprenorphine.
I'm still dealing with wd from all the other alkaloids that get lost in processing so aren't in pharma products like bupe, but yes, bupe is holding me 90% now.

Sixteen days and my husband thinks I'd be fine to go back to having it now and again. I don't think I could yet.

Anyway I've just had a nice green tea with 4g sugarleaves soaked in coconut oil. That should keep me contented.
 
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Nas47

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 29, 2021
Messages
688
Buprenorphine doesn't cover all the physical withdrawals and does nothing to cheer me up. I'm so used to being happy because I've got my DOC. Natural opium has 33 identified psychoactive alkaloids, last time I read about it. Morphine is one. Codeine is another, alongside 31 less famous siblings.
Pod tea, kompot, opium, anything unprocessed is different from pharma opioids.
To some it's a dirty high, to me it's perfect, every box ticked by those 33 alkaloids.
Problem comes when you try to replace it with something that only tackles the morphine withdrawal, like buprenorphine.
I'm still dealing with wd from all the other alkaloids that get lost in processing so aren't in pharma products, but yes, bupe is holding me 90% now.

Sixteen days and my husband thinks I'd be fine to go back to having it now and again. I don't think I could yet.

Anyway I've just had a nice green tea with 4g sugarleaves soaked in coconut oil. That should keep me contented.
My first quit of opiates was in the beginning of new millenium.10 years hooked on poppy tea+very often strong and pure smack(iv).Quitt in rehab(tough one) without even one paracetamol.Withdrawl last about 40 days-no sleep at all during this time.In the end just halucinated from weaknesss,sickness and insomnia.Took me another 3 months to feel like a human again-all this time hard working heavy physical job.Was then much younger about 30 and still remember that hell,that struggle.was completely alone,in different country,dont speak a native language at all,no money at all,all my relatives dead....was there in that place half year.Coming out clean,knowing the language,met my wife,have a child,have a busyness.Life was incredible.5 years sober fully.Sometime a beer after work and thats all.Long poppy intake gives a horrible long withdrawls.As you say theres too many alcaloids.Mental part is tricky.You need time.Bupre will cover your withdrawl for sure after some transfere period.Everyone is different,but also the same in many aspects.Keep tryin.Stay alive,stay safe...love
 

LivingOnValium

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
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Location
Helsinki, Finland
Real sorry they even test you for kratom :confused:
Best of luck, I hope they let you stay on the buvidal program.
Don't worry mate. Kratom was made illegal years ago here in Finland. So i wouldn't able source it domestically anyway. And international sourcing would be a nightmare due to customs, so kratom is out of the question anyway
 

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Bluelighter
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Don't worry mate. Kratom was made illegal years ago here in Finland. So i wouldn't able source it domestically anyway. And international sourcing would be a nightmare due to customs, so kratom is out of the question anyway
What did your case worker say? Are they giving you more time to get the relapses under control?
 

jerseyshark

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Messages
45
I'm down to 1 15 mg oxy per day for the next 14 days before I can get my refill. Is it ok to start a lopes regiment along with the one oxy per day? I was taking 6 oxy per day?
 

hylite

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
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I bumped up my low doses I think. Just a little bit.
I don't know why I dont know why.

I am still keeping it low though either way. Low doses.

I have been eyeballing the anti-diarrhea posts though. Thank gawwd.

But I don't know how to spell it.
 

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Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
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I'm down to 1 15 mg oxy per day for the next 14 days before I can get my refill. Is it ok to start a lopes regiment along with the one oxy per day? I was taking 6 oxy per day?
Sounds like loperamide would be good to have nearby, I imagine that reduction is going to hurt, what do you usually do?
 

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Bluelighter
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Messages
675
I bumped up my low doses I think. Just a little bit.
I don't know why I dont know why.

I am still keeping it low though either way. Low doses.

I have been eyeballing the anti-diarrhea posts though. Thank gawwd.

But I don't know how to spell it.
Low doses here too, more substances but less morphine.
I'm still getting my head around the way bupe is insignificant to me usually, I don't notice it when I've other opiates, but wiith no other opiates it suddenly becomes the most important med I have.
I don't know whether to tell the doctor I'm on the lower dose of bupe again or not.
I didn't like the higher dose of bupe because my libido suddenly up and left, which is definitely not what I want.
It isn't worth the effort of giving up opiates completely because I'm allowed them for pain relief, so I can hope for a lifetime supply.
I used to dream of having all the dope I could use, now they're offering and I'm thinking of asking for LESS?
Doesn't seem right to turn down what amounts to free dope!
 

hylite

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
3,972
Low doses here too,
I don't know whether to tell the doctor I'm on the lower dose of bupe again or not.
I had this pain management doctor that was so good at listening and anyone could tell him anything and he was there to help out with situations like this as in REAL LIFE. So he understood and was able to fit someone's needs. He had to leave.

Now they don't want to hear about it and get mad and yell about what you can and CAN NOT take. They won't seem too listen and just aren't allowed to listen and help anymore.
They just make sure everyone is vaxed and that's it.

It painful and CONFUSING. I feel shamed. It's backwards and unproductive. It seems right now.

I am having allots of problems because of it ALL.

Anyway.

Good Luck, Sincerely. ♡
 

howarethings

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 6, 2015
Messages
30
I am just checking in and will utilize this thread as a journal if I get no responses. I am totally off of the oxymorphone ER as I have run out, and now have 4 days of oxycodone only until I can gather my refill of my extended release medication. I experience no physical withdrawal at all when I take the oxy more frequently than recommended; however, they do not work that well on my pain, and I get no "high" or relief from depression or anxiety and that is fine with me.

Mr. Root: if you happen to read this, would you feel comfortable posting your taper experience off of your opioids? From what I read, it seems as if you had a posting schedule that allowed you to feel comfortable... did you by-pass the physical withdrawals completely? Were you able to sleep?
I am guessing the mental aspects of being totally clean were too uncomfortable so you will begin ORT shortly, is that right?

Anyone who has been able to taper off of opioids and avoided the physical w/d's... especially insomnia.... could you please share your schedule? I have read a lot of different articles/posts that suggest decreasing the daily amount you currently take by a certain percentage every few days or a week... but I have not read of anyone's actual experience. It does not make me feel hopeful; also, my own failures at tapering and holding at a low dosage do not make me feel hopeful either.
I know I’m years late to this, but I have discovered a method that works for me to be able to get on suboxone. Since one needs 24hrs (or as close to that as possible) clean before taking the subs, it can be very hard and most people will start to feel like complete shit long before then, esp depending on ROA. Anyway- I’ve learned that if you take some benzos (nothing too crazy- 1.5mg of clonopin and a 1/4 to 1/2 a Xanny bar, and a muscle relaxer (tizanidine, 4mg) before bed works WONDERS! Oh yeah don’t forget the Zofran or ondansetron for nausea if you deal with that too. Idk if you know but the benzos can help mask withdrawal symptoms, so it helps. Personally, right now, I’m at 18hrs since last use and am not puking constantly and have yawns and watery eyes (ill
Take that any day over puking). The ondansetron helps me to be able to eat and not puke for 12hrs straight. I thought it’d be much worse but he proved to be rather easy for far. I guess we shall see how I feel once the subs are in my system in about 2 hrs.
 

Nas47

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 29, 2021
Messages
688
Thanks bro. I'm sure it would help me over the hardest part but thing id¨s my clinic might want to retest me next monday, which means ishouldn't take any benzos at all anymore.
Here recently docs in methadone programs gives their patients clonazepam just like candies,as much as they want.Now is forbidden to take benzo,if you in program.Its a crime-they hooked a lot of people on strong benzos and now they throw away those with benzos in their urine.Fucking absurd.
 

LivingOnValium

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
2,767
Location
Helsinki, Finland
What did your case worker say? Are they giving you more time to get the relapses under control?
She was gonna do a teams-meeting (video call) with me the next day. I heard nothing from her and tried to call her. I was told she isn't able to work for the rest of this week and will return on next wendnesday.

I resoned since i've been using clonazepam (with aup to 9 days of detection time, sometimes even more if heavily abused) it would be unrealistic for them to expect me to test clean on the next monday. It's the monday after that which matters. So on a couple of days when i've felt especially rough i've take 1 or 2mg clonazepam and am generally in goof spirits. We'll see how this goes next week but it wouldn't make sense to test me straightaway, at least expect to not give dirty results. Since i realized thta i've been mostly chilling. I've abused IV midazolam a couple of times as well but that i'm not worried about (detection time 1-2 days). Thanks for caring. :heart3:
 

hylite

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
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I definitely have to start cutting my doses in half. Maybe just stick to my third of 10mg.
I am already sad. Beyond.

Hopefully I will be able to do this and will be helpful. And because I can nod teal bad on 5mg. now. 2.5 still helps me sleep.

This isn't life anymore. In the mean time I will try to stay positive.

God helped so much, I can't even explain it; now I need it again.
 

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Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
675
I definitely have to start cutting my doses in half. Maybe just stick to my third of 10mg.
I am already sad. Beyond.

Hopefully I will be able to do this and will be helpful. And because I can nod teal bad on 5mg. now. 2.5 still helps me sleep.

This isn't life anymore. In the mean time I will try to stay positive.

God helped so much, I can't even explain it; now I need it again.
Depression is a bigger killer than overdose, I can manage without drugs, but it's a different existance.

I'm more productive without drugs, let's face it our productivity is the reason why drugs are demonised, but now I'm approaching retirement, it doesn't matter if I'm less productive than when I was young and my disabilities hadn't become undeniable.

In the dark of winter, when the stress of christmas is looming, I keep focussed on springtime.
I pick a random date and imagine it's a sunny day, still a chill in the air, but everything looks and smells clean after the winter storms have passed. I breathe in the sharp cool air and relax as the sunshine sinks slowly into my skin. Even typing that relaxed me!

Yep, that and prozac, buprenorphine, gabapentin and weed keeps the daily sads at bay. I'm not poster material for clean living, lol.
I tried clean living for over 20 years, my kids deserved to have all of me for those years.
(Edit; I wish I were as altruistic as that sounds. In reality, it was a deep fear of social services that kept me clean until my youngest was six weeks off his 18th birthday. Then I relapsed, sigh. That was supposed to be a three day bit of fun, not years).

Glad I'm back to being less useful but more contented now I've my use under control and a script from the doctor.

Stay positive, stay alive.
 
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