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Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

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Squeaky said:
Wow, 10 years.
I sat down a while ago and realized I had been posting in this thread for 5 years, and my opiate use started a year before that. I thought I had some pretty strong seniority at 6 years.
I don’t want to do this for another 4 years.
Click to expand...
Please don't..
And, the amount of acetaminophen that I've taken that is ingredient with Norco is scary.
Acetaminophen is most people know is very toxic
 
Squeaky said:
I know that feeling all too well. Just getting in the car and driving somewhere important like the gym or grocery store is an absolute victory. During the first stage of withdrawals for me there is a long and tense moment where I argue with myself about whether I will actually die from a trip out of the house. ‘No way in hell I could actually go and work out, but wouldn’t it be a death sentence to even get into the car?’
Usually at some point I just get up and go. Mostly I got really good at pushing through the fear and straight up exhaustion that would have stopped me because I was constantly trying to hide my withdrawals. At some point around a year ago, I had been through the withdrawals so many times, so many months in a row, that it sort of became like a trip to the proctologist: I knew that it would be unbelievably uncomfortable but nobody ever died, and if I can just pretend to be strong when there are witnesses then I can come home and fall apart in privacy.
The other thing that I learned was that it’s a victory. Its such a small and seemingly insignificant victory to just get dressed, shave, teeth brushed, put on cologne, and get into the car. Then it’s a small victory to just start the car and idle down the street. And it doesn’t matter where I drive to, it takes all of my strength to keep focused and NOT think about how much less this would suck if I didn’t run out of pills. But when I get back home and change back into my pajamas and crawl back into bed, after telling my wife only that my back hurt (not about the wd’s), there is a moment when I am so damn proud of myself for manning-up and not choosing to pass on my responsibilities for that minute.
It doesn’t matter where I went. Work, grocery store, etc. It’s my fault I screwed my self, but I would feel like a slug if I cowered behind my withdrawals and made everyone else handle my responsibilities. “If I can make it through this trip to the grocery store then I have definitely earned a few hours of doing absolutely nothing” or “I just need to get to work. Today’s Friday and if I can make it through then I’ll have the whole weekend to lay around.”
Those very short and insignificant goals gave me something to focus on that was attainable and could provide me with some kind of satisfaction that I didn’t have to wait long to achieve. Thinking about how nice it will be when I have been off the pills for a month is absolutely murder, but feeling like I climbed Mount Everest by going to the grocery grocery for 5 minutes would always make me feel 10x less hopeless.

It’s also an effective way of using up a few minutes out of the day, and every minute spent is a minute earned when you’re in withdrawal.
Click to expand...
Keep on keeping on..
 
Update..
No sleep again...
Slid back on a few tramadol...
Trying to not beat myself up too bad.
I'm totally off Norco now and feel very good about that..

Spinal stuff, knee shot, and general arthritis is rough..

But began reaching for motrin instead..tricking my brain and addiction pattern ..
 
Dundermifflin8699 said:
Update..
No sleep again...
Slid back on a few tramadol...
Trying to not beat myself up too bad.
I'm totally off Norco now and feel very good about that..

Spinal stuff, knee shot, and general arthritis is rough..

But began reaching for motrin instead..tricking my brain and addiction pattern ..
Click to expand...
Everything is a step forward. Even a slip backwards on Tramadol can be a move forward if you can turn it into a learning experience.
 
Dundermifflin8699 said:
Please don't..
And, the amount of acetaminophen that I've taken that is ingredient with Norco is scary.
Acetaminophen is most people know is very toxic
Click to expand...
Numbers alone. A couple of thousand people every year in the US die from acetaminophen overdose, and it’s an absolute miserable death. The good news is that your liver can rebuild itself over time if it’s not too far gone.
 
hylite said:
I taper everyday. so I can survive.
I am doing a little better at a time.
I am getting better but should probably be in the depression thread also.
Click to expand...
Ironically for me, talking about being depressed makes me even more depressed. I know it’s a bad idea to avoid my problems but I have been depressed since childhood and the only way I made it to adulthood was by distracting myself and not thinking about it.
 
Squeaky said:
Ironically for me, talking about being depressed makes me even more depressed. I know it’s a bad idea to avoid my problems but I have been depressed since childhood and the only way I made it to adulthood was by distracting myself and not thinking about it.
Click to expand...
You know you are right ..
I grew up in a really down family that worried about everything and essentially drove everybody into a depression..

It's possible to reprogram and unlearn that BS..
Our speech and words we use thru out day is a real self defeating process.

This one course that I took about empowerment talked about writing down all the negative things coming out of my mouth
And then how to replace them with different words and I learned to definitely try not to use the word depression or "fine"

I learned some slogans and different words to use daily to not drag me into the pit..

"I'm getting better and stronger each day"
"Thank you for this great day today"
And
Keeping in touch with people and finding out how they are doing and people that need assistance and are sick having them in my thoughts and prayers..

When it's all about me I'm in trouble!
Me, me, me....

Most of the components of recovery programs are learning to help others in whatever way to get the focus off of me.

Thanks for sharing
 
Dundermifflin8699 said:
You know you are right ..
I grew up in a really down family that worried about everything and essentially drove everybody into a depression..

It's possible to reprogram and unlearn that BS..
Our speech and words we use thru out day is a real self defeating process.

This one course that I took about empowerment talked about writing down all the negative things coming out of my mouth
And then how to replace them with different words and I learned to definitely try not to use the word depression or "fine"

I learned some slogans and different words to use daily to not drag me into the pit..

"I'm getting better and stronger each day"
"Thank you for this great day today"
And
Keeping in touch with people and finding out how they are doing and people that need assistance and are sick having them in my thoughts and prayers..

When it's all about me I'm in trouble!
Me, me, me....

Most of the components of recovery programs are learning to help others in whatever way to get the focus off of me.

Thanks for sharing
Click to expand...
i'm catching up, you are trying to quit opiates right ?
i take it they did not give you any subs or methadone ?
 
Dundermifflin8699 said:
You know you are right ..
I grew up in a really down family that worried about everything and essentially drove everybody into a depression..

It's possible to reprogram and unlearn that BS..
Our speech and words we use thru out day is a real self defeating process.

This one course that I took about empowerment talked about writing down all the negative things coming out of my mouth
And then how to replace them with different words and I learned to definitely try not to use the word depression or "fine"

I learned some slogans and different words to use daily to not drag me into the pit..

"I'm getting better and stronger each day"
"Thank you for this great day today"
And
Keeping in touch with people and finding out how they are doing and people that need assistance and are sick having them in my thoughts and prayers..

When it's all about me I'm in trouble!
Me, me, me....

Most of the components of recovery programs are learning to help others in whatever way to get the focus off of me.

Thanks for sharing
Click to expand...
I grew up un the 80’s. Became an adult in the early 90’s. It was the age of Prozac and the whole f’ing country was talking about what their therapist said. At some point I wound up in treatment for depression, antidepressants and all. It was such a bunch of BS. What I really needed was for someone to give me a hammer or a shovel and kick my ass into doing something productive. All of that talking just made me spend 1/2 of my day thinking about being depressed.
(Not that therapy is bad, just not the fix-all solution that works for everyone).

I have had the exact same experience with withdrawals from oxy. It really helps sometimes to vent, ask questions, even answer questions and try to help someone else. However.... sometimes what I really need is to get off the internet and go outside. There have been plenty of times I just pushed myself to do anything productive, like washing the car or mowing the lawn. And it absolutely helps, even if it hurts. Even if all I accomplished was wasting a few hours, its way better than sitting around thinking about how long it’s been or how much longer it will be.
 
Dundermifflin8699 said:
Just trying to get away from the meds and all the sht that goes with it
Click to expand...
How have you been? I’m guessing you made it through the worst of the physical wd’s. Have you gotten to the point where it starts to feel like it’s getting better yet? Usually for me it feels like I’m going to die for a few days but after about 2 weeks its down to being generally exhausted and depressed. Somewhere around the 10-14 day mark I realize that it’s getting a little better each day. It still sucks but that little bit of hope makes a big difference.
 
Squeaky said:
How have you been? I’m guessing you made it through the worst of the physical wd’s. Have you gotten to the point where it starts to feel like it’s getting better yet? Usually for me it feels like I’m going to die for a few days but after about 2 weeks its down to being generally exhausted and depressed. Somewhere around the 10-14 day mark I realize that it’s getting a little better each day. It still sucks but that little bit of hope makes a big difference.
Click to expand...
Thank you for asking..

Update....
Slept last 2 nights....

I've had more activity and have gotten into a little bit of projects..

My pain level has hit 7-8 in last 2 days..
It's like my head's telling me that's why you're taking pain meds for all these years..

Have taken tramadol doses..
but waited till late in day...
Trying to not get all guilty regarding, as I'm off the Norco and have been now for a little bit.

Taking ibuprofen some now..
You know the behavior of taking pills is so deep and so ingrained just taking ibuprofen if thought of differently can satisfy a need to take something...

But ...
My attitude has gotten better and I'm more content and grateful for the things that I have in my life now...

I usually travel to another residence for 2 months each year...
I so much want to do that now without being a slave for these prescriptions..
 
Dundermifflin8699 said:
My pain level has hit 7-8 in last 2 days..
It's like my head's telling me that's why you're taking pain meds for all these days...
Click to expand...
Opioid induced Hyperalgesia. It’s absolutely real and it takes a long time to reset.
Its like walking barefoot for your whole life. You build up callouses and your feet never hurt. Then you get shoes and wear them for years(pills). When those are taken away your feet are going to be really tender until you get your callouses back. And the first stage is anger that someone took away your shoes.
At some point it stops hurting and you now have an understanding that if you could have worn shoes forever then it would have been fine, but if that’s not possible then you would have benefited from having that assistance for a short time and in short bursts when it was appropriate.

You absolutely will get back to a normal existence where it only hurts when it REALLY hurts, but an average day is just average.
 
About 2 years ago my surgeon told me to get off the pills. I didn’t listen. I was in pain every day so F him, I need the pain relief. A couple of months later another Dr in the same office brought up something he had just recently heard about: Opioid Induced Hyperalgesia. I listened but I had already researched it and decided that it probably didn’t apply to me since the majority of my pain started at my surgery and spread from there to the rest of my body, so clearly he was wrong.
Now, a couple of years later I decided that I can’t use the pills anymore. Within 24 hours of making the decision deep in my soul that the pills are evil, my general pain level dropped from a 6 to a 2. My back still hurt and I still have nerve pain in my legs sometimes off the chart, but the aches in my shoulders and neck basically disappeared. I’m not saying that it was all in my head, but clearly my attitude was amplifying my real problems. Combine that with withdrawals, which lead to insomnia/alcohol/fast food/etc.
I think the depression that came from all of that led to some really bad choices with junk food and blaming everyone and everything for my troubles. Trying to get through today and only focusing on the very short term solutions that cause long term problems was a recipe for disaster.
Today I am focused on making tomorrow better. And nobody can help me except me. So I’m eating better, getting better exercise. I’m allowing myself to be broken today with the hope that tomorrow will be my reward (before, I would focus on being tough today and the only way was to take more pills). And I’m giving myself the right to say ‘No’ if there’s something I’m just not able to do without hurting.
Ironically...... by saying “I can’t” instead of covering everything up with pills, I’m MORE capable of helping my friends and family. Mainly because my mind is clear and my life doesn’t revolve around my next refill. If I’m hurting or tired or just not feeling OK, I say ‘no’ and try to help out tomorrow. And I’m actually getting more stuff done.
 
Oh yeah, and there’s one other thing...... Time passes like fucking molasses when I’m in withdrawal and waiting for a pill, and even slower if I’m out of pills. I kick myself in the ass now and just get up and go to work. No thoughts about sticking to my prescribed dose or planning my pills so I don’t have to be suffering through dinner with my in-laws. No more looking at the calendar and seeing that Christmas falls 3 days before my next script, knowing that I will be out of pills for sure. Counting on myself to run out AT LEAST 4 days before, so that the worst withdrawals will be past when Santa comes to town. Planning on a great New Years Eve because I have never run out in 4 days. Man wasn’t meant to spend such a big portion if the day counting the hours, or days on the calendar.
 
Update...
Sleeping somewhat better...
Cravings for norco gone..
Still chipping on tramadol a bit....
But feel more energy than in long time..

The pain from spinal stuff, knee and shoulder is pretty significant...
Level 5-6 to 7-8..

I live in a neighborhood where I have a lot of overachievers as neighbors.
Consequently they're working on their house day and night...
I feel so far removed from that I can't even comprehend it..

Junk food junkie has gotten worse..
Today..eat better, limit trams..
Have gratitude and joy..help someone
 
Fortunately for me, I’m the jackass overachiever on my block. When I don’t spend any time outside it makes me look ‘normal’

Dundermifflin8699: I always crave the crap. Potato chips, Coke, Snickers, microwave popcorn... All of the stuff that probably causes cancer and birth defects. On a normal day we know that stuff isn’t good for us, but in withdrawal it’s enough to cause a relapse. The short term effects of MSG and high fructose corn syrup (and don’t get me started on aspartame-Diet Coke) are very similar to opiates, and with the high comes the low.
It’s exactly like alcohol: In withdrawal a few beers sounds like a great idea, and it really does make you feel better for a short while. Drink enough and you will sleep like a baby for a night. But tomorrow is going to hurt so much that you will be begging for your pills.

I’m not preaching here. I have a crappy diet. The inside of my arteries are lined with bacon and flowing with Dr Pepper. But the best way to beat the depression and exhaustion from the withdrawals is to replace the crappy convenience foods with fresh fruits, meat cooked with only salt & pepper, etc.
The big exception here would be chocolate. There’s a lot of science supporting the theory that chocolate triggers the same pleasure centers in the brain as sex, drugs, and rock & roll. You might gain a few pounds, but it would be worth it.
 
Thanks for reply..
Im smiling reading....
You have intellectual brain like me....
Keep it going....

Im a music affecionado, heavy 60s and 70s RR...
Can really change my state...

Thanks again...
 
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