Misc Treating major depression and anxiety with Kratom?

[TDO90]

Hello, it seems I still can't get any relief from antidepressants, private therapy or group therapy. I went though many antidepressants and other meds without any help at all. I still currently take 300mg of Effexor, vyvanse 30mg and I just recently started taking ginkgo, sam-e and many other herbs. However most effective herb has been Kratom White Bali and Green Malaysian. I take about 3-4 grams each of those. Does anyone have any experience that with herb? It seems it wears off after about 3-4 hours which means it's not enough to get through the day ;(
Would taking it three times a day build my tolerance even faster and what is recommended usual daily dose and absolute maximum? I also heard from many people online that CBD is the most effective treatment but I'm not sure if I should try it even thou it's legal in my state.
Any help, recommendations or guesses are greatly appreciated!!!

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

Kratom will work for a little while and although tolerance doesn?t seem to build as fast as other opiates it?ll still accumulate. The problems with kratom is it?s addictive and like you said you?re gonna need to keep redosing to get the desired effects.

I was using it as an antidepressant and while it did help for a time i was quick to find myself taking over 15 grams a day. At that point it really wasn?t working, when i?d take it i?d get a 20 minute buzz then basically a minute afterglow.

If you use kratom sparingly it can be helpful but you have to take breaks and not take it everyday. The nature of using a potentially recreational drug as an antidepressant will mean you?ll be at a higher risk of getting addicted to it, at least in my experience.

Although opiates can help with depression they have terrible consequences if used long term, i wouldn?t recommend them for this reason.

The treatment of depression is a highly personal experience, some people will be helped immensely by their first trial with an ssri and some will never experience relief after sifting through dozens of drugs plus therapy. I don?t think there is a universal answer to depression, in my opinion it?s an affliction that needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis. I?d love to help you but what works for me might be counterproductive for you.

Good luck, i sincerely hope you can find relief somewhere.

 

[TDO90]

Hey, thanks for the answer!!! I never had addiction problem in my life even when trying something that reliefs my depression. I always just stop after a while and I never did any hard drugs, not even marijuana. If you don't mind could you tell me what helped your depression?

 

[Pickledlemons]

I'm not using kratom for depression but for opiate addiction. I have to dose 3 times a day. Let me tell you, it loses effectiveness pretty fast. Switching between strains can slow this somewhat.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

I can?t say for sure what helped my depression. I want to say opiates because they were the one comfort i had for the worst years of my depression. It feels wrong to say that they had a great deal to do with my recovery.

Maybe it was my experiences with psilocybin mushrooms that opened my eyes for the first time to a world with no misery, i honestly can?t say for sure. I just know that i feel better today and i?m always vigilant for signs that my depression is coming back so i can snuff them anyway i can.

 

[TDO90]

I can?t say for sure what helped my depression. I want to say opiates because they were the one comfort i had for the worst years of my depression. It feels wrong to say that they had a great deal to do with my recovery.

Maybe it was my experiences with psilocybin mushrooms that opened my eyes for the first time to a world with no misery, i honestly can?t say for sure. I just know that i feel better today and i?m always vigilant for signs that my depression is coming back so i can snuff them anyway i can.

Most likely the mushrooms helped you. There is actually research being done on psilocybin mushrooms and data shows that it does help depression and anxiety. But you can't just buy them in U.S. I guess I'll have to look for something else. The only time I could see the world without misery and without cloudy mind is when I was a child.

 

[Scrofula]

I never had addiction problem in my life even when trying something that reliefs my depression. I always just stop after a while and I never did any hard drugs, not even marijuana.

Every addict has a first drug of choice. Even if you had experience with drugs, you can't predict what'll grab you.

You want to avoid risk of dependence as much as possible, and since Kratom has zero evidence supporting use as an antidepressant (doesn't mean it wouldn't work, there's just no studies at all) but plenty of support to show it's addictive, best advice would be avoid it as a treatment for depression.

CBD doesn't have the best evidence for treating anxiety, and I think no evidence for depression, but it's got no real risk of dependence, either. No major health risks (that I know of), fewer than for Gingko actually. It's only money at stake for trying CBD.

 

[KraziKat]

I'm not using kratom for depression but for opiate addiction. I have to dose 3 times a day. Let me tell you, it loses effectiveness pretty fast. Switching between strains can slow this somewhat.

Same here. Doesn't seem to be working like it used to. I want off of all daily opiods so badly! Miss my old life.

 

[truenamebrand]

I'm not using kratom for depression but for opiate addiction. I have to dose 3 times a day. Let me tell you, it loses effectiveness pretty fast. Switching between strains can slow this somewhat.

I use it for depression, have been for about two years, and while there certainly is some tolerance, it still works great for me.

That being said, I'm at the point now where I cannot sleep through the night without physical withdrawal symptoms beginning. This really fucking sucks, as I wake up every morning, super early, already feeling like absolute shit. During the day I have about 7-8 hours from last dose before I start getting symptoms -- Runny nose, watery eyes, fatigue, yawning, restless legs, anxiety, mood instability, etc etc. Despite this, the positives still outweigh the negatives for me. Kratom has been the ONLY effective antidepressant for me, and for that reason I have no plans of stopping.

OP, kratom certainly can be an effective antidepressant, but like you said, those effects wear off pretty quickly. As a result, you will need to dose throughout the day. If you're prepared to deal with the consequences I have described, and you'd see it as a net-positive as I do, it is effective IMO. Personally, I will take the negative of being physically dependent on kratom since I have SOME quality of life with it. Just as a chronic pain patient would say with rx opioids.

Best of luck to you, and if you have any questions feel free to PM me.

 

[Pickledlemons]

Thanks for sharing, I'm glad kratom is working for you. And really, it is still working for me in the sense of keeping W/Ds away, it just isnt giving me motivation like it did at first though. And same here, around 7 - 10 hours without it I start getting restless/watery eyed.

 

[Anonymous Dissident]

Without question, kratom can serve as a rapid acting anti-depressant. Within 30 minutes of a dose (generally ~7g loose powdered red horned maeng da for this purpose), I notice that my state of mind has changed drastically for the better. On an empty stomach, make it 10 minutes. Regardless of means of ingestion, within an hour, I am not happy exactly, but perfectly content. Not highly intoxicated, just the feeling that everything is right in the world and all my problems will will all be resolved to my satisfaction. On days I refrain from kratom, I feel no cravings or withdrawal. This seems to result from my 2 days on, 1 day off regimen.

There's real potential for high efficacy anti-depressant drugs from mitragynine derivatives. We just need to keep it legal so it can be given proper clinical study...

As an aside, I poorly tolerate traditional opiates and have never been addicted to them.

 

[Deemgd]

I wish I could try kratom. I think it would help my depression and drug abuse- which is mostly caused by me self medicating my depression. I think it could also help me get off all the opioid painkillers I'm on. I've heard a lot of good things about it in all those regards, but unfortunately it's illegal in my state now. ? I have friends who use it Anyway and order it through the mail, but I'm too paranoid that I'll have the feds show up at my house. It's interesting to me that it's not banned in every state, I'm not sure how each state comes up with their criteria of what to make illegal, but I know here it's a schedule 1- same penalties as being caught with heroin.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

It?s very helpful, i used it for depression and as a maintenance drug to get off painkillers. I still use painkillers a couple times a month but it?s helped me greatly reduce my usage.

 

[Scrofula]

On days I refrain from kratom, I feel no cravings or withdrawal. This seems to result from my 2 days on, 1 day off regimen.

There's real potential for high efficacy anti-depressant drugs from mitragynine derivatives. We just need to keep it legal so it can be given proper clinical study...

As an aside, I poorly tolerate traditional opiates and have never been addicted to them.

Whether the opiate is traditional or not, it's all the same MOA. 7-hydroxy mitragynine, found in Kratom, targets the same receptor as morphine, but seventeen times as potently. That doesn't scream out anti-depressant potential.

Plenty of people use very addictive things on a regular basis (but not really regular, cause that might be addiction) without appearing addicted, and plenty of power to them and you. It's just, the muffled wails of millions of last words, the famous kind, can be heard calling like dying geese on kazoos from your post.

Be careful, please.

 

[busted.produk]

Whether the opiate is traditional or not, it's all the same MOA. 7-hydroxy mitragynine, found in Kratom, targets the same receptor as morphine, but seventeen times as potently. That doesn't scream out anti-depressant potential.

Without promoting opiate/opioid use as an anti-depressant, id like to point out there actually is a fair amount of research stating as much.


I actually just made a post(in the N&P forum) the other day of an article(not the first ive read but its decently concise)i found on the topic....

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...led-quot-endorphin-mediated-pathologies-quot?

It has references to other articles spread over the past few decades.

Scro, if i misunderstood you, please accept my apology.

OP, pro/con ratios definitely should be taken into account and scrutinized when considering new routes of depression combat.
Research heavily and stay safe.

 

[Scrofula]

Probably not the best reference to stick in your Endnote. But, I figure I'll leave the post-mortem in your thread.

I'm not gonna take a stance on opiates as antidepressants cause this isn't the forum--that would be in P&S. There's no clinical data to favor it, but they can make you feel better. Just like meth, bourbon and fucking, in whatever order. I don't think any of those is a sin, each has different risks, but few people would say they make viable anti-depressants either. Why? Well that's a philosophical discuission and you know I already deleted a few thousand words in several drafts.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

It's interesting to me that it's not banned in every state, I'm not sure how each state comes up with their criteria of what to make illegal, but I know here it's a schedule 1- same penalties as being caught with heroin.

Some soccor mom that had too much free time on her hands gets elected (see Sarah Palin for example) gets bribes from drug rehab centers, private prisons and drug companies then she actually believes Jesus is telling her at night to make krstom illiegal to save the children from kratom which is causing massive overdose deaths and face eating among kids. Kratom becomes illegal. No scientists, doctors, addiction experts are consulted.

This is how kratom becomes illegal in states with no states rights except guns like Alabama.

 

[Scrofula]

I'd have to say the recovery industry wants kratom legal, the same way they need alcohol to stay legal. Their sustenance is family court spillover, and if Mom can't put down a glass of chablis/kratom to help with the homework, her retained counsel will suggest another hundred grand stint in Malibu to convince the judge of her dedication.


Edit: to counter our cynicism and avoid your SR issue, it could be simply because the FDA did briefly ban it. When poor states with opioid problems asked what the stuff was, they were told "like tea, made with Vicodin". Not nec. wrong, not really fear mongering either.

 

[cleosmith]

Kratom helps in may ways including anxiety and depressions. I start using kratom 2 years and it helps me well. But sady, fda (which I guess behind the big pharma) wants to wipe it.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Without promoting opiate/opioid use as an anti-depressant, id like to point out there actually is a fair amount of research stating as much.


I actually just made a post(in the N&P forum) the other day of an article(not the first ive read but its decently concise)i found on the topic....

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...led-quot-endorphin-mediated-pathologies-quot?

It has references to other articles spread over the past few decades.

thanks for sharing this article. I found it tp be a rather interesting read.