U.K. - Government urged to sell cocaine and ecstasy in pharmacies

phenethylo J

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I'm sorry, WHAT!? Did you just talk about how whenever someone buys cocaine, they fund barbaric blood cartels, and in the SAME message say you wish cocaine to CONTINUE to be illegal?

So you WANT to CONTINUE funding cartels?

making it legal would fund cartels even more. People don't want to admit that their cocaine usage has contributed to mass killings 100x worse than isis. It can only grow in south america.


The thing is coke is very popular in allot of different countries around the world and many of those are places were drugs will never be legal so that probably wouldn't hurt their business too much if coke was made legal in some western nations.
 

AutoTripper

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The very crucial point in all of this is that various governments, including the US, are basically running this global chain supply of cocaine, more than any other drug, heroin arguably a close second.

It is not exactly in their own interests to allow such a thing to happen.

And for cocaine to be legalised in UK, really it would have to be virtually worldwide.
 

FuckinAcidMan

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making it legal would fund cartels even more. People don't want to admit that their cocaine usage has contributed to mass killings 100x worse than isis. It can only grow in south america.
So your solution is for everyone to stop doing cocaine then?

I don't even like cocaine, I'm just curious as to what you would recommend we do about people and their lust for cocaine.

It's kinda hard to get rid of a popular drug.
 

AutoTripper

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making it legal would fund cartels even more. People don't want to admit that their cocaine usage has contributed to mass killings 100x worse than isis. It can only grow in south america.
I can see it growing in a giant dome on the moon one day, in my ideal "planet" vision.

But they say even that our moon is not even the actual, original moon, but an artificial replacement wheeled in in it's place some time ago.

Related I'm sure to the flat earth argument, which I actually keep my mind open to.

I don't firmly subscribe either way.

Let's hope the artificial, flat disc shape, illusory moon is still capable of housing a huge cocaine plant...or rather, not! Seeing as the consensus here seems to be that legal cocaine isn't exactly something to aspire towards, when we should be exploring alternative paths, treatments and therapies.

So your solution is for everyone to stop doing cocaine then?

I don't even like cocaine, I'm just curious as to what you would recommend we do about people and their lust for cocaine.

It's kinda hard to get rid of a popular drug.
Give them a daily but sufficient amount of organic coca leaves- say- get on with it guys. And offer treatments and therapies and support at the same time.

Cocaine is NOT physically addictive. On that ground alone, there is a much stronger arguable case for legalising heroin I would say.

I know this sounds like tough love.

But chronic, longterm cocaine use and psychological, viscious circle dependance, does not equate to happiness and contentment in life, in the longrun.

Even if freely available, I imagine it would still lead to the breakdown of family and friend relationships, which is essentially what should be reinforced to help people in these situation.

I am not at all ant-drugs btw.
 
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FuckinAcidMan

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Give them a daily but sufficient amount of organic coca leaves- say- get on with it guys. And offer treatments and therapies and support at the same time.

Cocaine is NOT physically addictive. On that ground alone, there is a much stronger arguable case for legalising heroin I would say.

I know this sounds like tough love.

But chronic, longterm cocaine use and psychological, viscious circle dependance, does not equate to happiness and contentment in life, in the longrun.

Even if freely available, I imagine it would still lead to the breakdown of family and friend relationships, which is essentially what should be reinforced to help people in these situation.

I am not at all ant-drugs btw.
Nah that seems reasonable, from what I can tell cocaine is bad news long term. Coca leaf tea is wonderful actually, its the only form of cocaine I've ever tried for personal choice reasons.

There are plenty of more therapeutic stimulants for those want a kick like youd get from refined cocaine hcl.
 

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Nah that seems reasonable, from what I can tell cocaine is bad news long term. Coca leaf tea is wonderful actually, its the only form of cocaine I've ever tried for personal choice reasons.

There are plenty of more therapeutic stimulants for those want a kick like youd get from refined cocaine hcl.
Exactly, I just feel the focus should be on actual positive, beneficial solutions and alternatives, rather than just redesigning the way the current problem and it's consequences- the unavoidable negative psychological effects, personality changes, and consequent relationship distruction for the end line chronic user.
 

FuckinAcidMan

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Exactly, I just feel the focus should be on actual positive, beneficial solutions and alternatives, rather than just redesigning the way the current problem and it's consequences- the unavoidable negative psychological effects, personality changes, and consequent relationship distruction for the end line chronic user.
Lol what's your take on tobacco and alcohol
 

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Lol what's your take on tobacco and alcohol
Well, no take really. I can't personally tolerate either, not even passive smoke, I became severely allergic to tobacco smoke when Lyme Disease struck in 2005.

I cannot enter a building or inside space where there is tobacco smoke in the air, for even 20 seconds, and I have to keep my distance at all times outdoors too.

But I guess I do have a few simple, logical, if not, outright obvious and sensical ideas.

First- ciggiarettes! No place on earth. 1000 times mote toxic. Tailored cigiarrettes are basically a weapon upon humanity in disguise.

Tobacco itself is a natural plant.

So let's start by banishing chemically laden, ultra-addictive, super polluting, and mega health damaging cigiarrettes.

Then, make all tobacco fully organic at least (could even be fair-trade stamped lol).

Then take the argument from there.

Alcohol- really truly try to scientifically determine the balance between arguable, and difinitely at least partly scientifically supported benefits of certain forms of alcohol, aka Red Wine, vs the toxicity and overall negative impacts on body, persons, and society.

But one thing for sure, again at the very least, let's suppose it was determined that only red wine made any sense going forwards...it must and should already be organic, and totally free from sulphites and sulphates.

So those are my feelings on those two, thinking purely practically.
 

Viraldrome

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ElXSAneUYAAC4al


There is Coca tea cafe in Vancouver now. This is the only form of it I would touch these days, my cocaine years are over. I never found it addictive though. That was the thing that really made me reject the DARE propaganda, which basically insinuated I would end up sucking cock and robbing old ladies to get it. Most of my friends were casual users too, I would be interested to know what percent of people who try it get addicted.
 

AutoTripper

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ElXSAneUYAAC4al


There is Coca tea cafe in Vancouver now. This is the only form of it I would touch these days, my cocaine years are over. I never found it addictive though. That was the thing that really made me reject the DARE propaganda, which basically insinuated I would end up sucking cock and robbing old ladies to get it. Most of my friends were casual users too, I would be interested to know what percent of people who try it get addicted.
Now that is the simple, basic way to go, if any.
 

S.J.B.

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Tobacco itself is a natural plant.

So let's start by banishing chemically laden, ultra-addictive, super polluting, and mega health damaging cigiarrettes.

Then, make all tobacco fully organic at least (could even be fair-trade stamped lol).
This is a common misconception. Inhalation of tobacco smoke is intrinsically carcinogenic. Nicotine is intrinsically addictive. Cigarettes are not only carcinogenic and addictive because of "added chemicals". There is, however, an argument to be made that pre-rolled cigarettes increase the addictiveness of tobacco due to how easy they make it to consume frequently.
 

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This is a common misconception. Inhalation of tobacco smoke is intrinsically carcinogenic. Nicotine is intrinsically addictive. Cigarettes are not only carcinogenic and addictive because of "added chemicals". There is, however, an argument to be made that pre-rolled cigarettes increase the addictiveness of tobacco due to how easy they make it to consume frequently.
I never disputed your first point, or suggested otherwise.

I simply made the point that tobacco itself, does grow naturally and come from nature.

I certainly eas not even hinting in any way that even the most natural, organic tobacco, is not carcinogenic and damaging to the lungs.

But it is surely the better choice for tobacco smokers.

There is such an enormous gulf of difference between rolling tobacco, organic or not, and tailored ciggiarettes, which I think are unquestionably more addictive, and infinitely more toxic and damaging on a relative scale.

With my own allergies, I am 100 times more severely allergic to pasdive ciggiarette smoke, than rolling tobacco.

Passive, windblown ciggiatette smoke effects me instantly and badly from hundreds of feet away.

I can get pretty close to outdoor rolling tobacco smoke, depending on garden size, air and wind conditions and direction.

I am not basing my above comments on that. It just serves as a marker how they really are effectively different substsnces.

I'm not saying at all- tobacco is natural and therefore okay. Perhaps you mistead my meaninh there? I just don't propose to be the knowledgable authority on whether the purest, most natural tobacco is justified for human consumption, weighing risks and negative impacts, against any proposed benefits or needs.
 

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@AutoTripper
Rolling tobacco is at least as toxic as regular cigarettes. Both can contain high levels of tobacco specific nitrosamines (known carcinogens) and both produce other toxic compounds when you smoke them.
IIRC there are also studies showing that rolled cigarettes actually produce more carbon monoxide (which is cardiotoxic) as well as more tar because the combustion is less efficient than in industrial cigarettes.


Maybe if you were to grow your own tobacco hydroponically or on non-polluted soil(the tobacco plant really likes to absorb all kinds of crap, including radioactive elements) and used some alternative fertilizers and drying techniques to reduce the formation of nistrosamines. It would still be toxic but maybe less so? Not sure.
 
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thegreenhand

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Personally i fully support this. Reduces the stigma for one so people that do need care can get it easier. As well as using the revenue for good purposes and not lining the pockets of cartels who essentially hold coca farmers hostage. I have slightly (though not much) more confidence that a first world government can fairly compensate farmers.
 

SunriseChampion

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Most of my friends were casual users too, I would be interested to know what percent of people who try it get addicted.

Super anecdotally: of all my friends who have/still use cocaine (including myself) exactly 1 out of 30-40 has ever had it become a problem. A serious psychotic break, schizophrenia diagnosis problem but still....1 out of 40 ish ain't bad.

As opposed to meth, as an example, which has caused serious problems for a significantly larger proportion of my friends.
 

cowcondum

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I actually read something about a Canadian doctor who was pushing for opiate vending machines to combat the opioid epidemic.
 

birdup.snaildown

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Aside from economic benefits, I'm not sure I agree with the legalization of cannabis let alone cocaine... and I like weed.

We are decades away from coke being legalized in the UK.

Opiate vending machines is insanely stupid. The doctor is a moron. If they legalize heroin, it obviously needs to be regulated like alcohol so children don't become addicted.
 

S.J.B.

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I actually read something about a Canadian doctor who was pushing for opiate vending machines to combat the opioid epidemic.
Yep, that is the case! We've discussed here in Drugs in the Media in the past:

Canada's fix to the opioid crisis: Vending machines that distribute opioids

Canada - Vancouver's drug-dispensing machine: Why it exists and how it works

Opiate vending machines is insanely stupid. The doctor is a moron. If they legalize heroin, it obviously needs to be regulated like alcohol so children don't become addicted.
The plan isn't just to put a vending machine on the street that anyone can buy pills from. It's a heavily-armored machine that is monitored by camera and can only be accessed via biometric scanner. The only people allowed to access it are those who have a prescription for the opioid being dispensed, and they are only given their daily limit at a time. It just bypasses having to go wait in a pharmacy every day. This is one of the essential tenets of harm reduction for people with severe and dysfunctional drug addictions: lowering the barrier for the acquisition of services increases uptake.
 

birdup.snaildown

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S.J.B. said:
The plan isn't just to put a vending machine on the street that anyone can buy pills from. It's a heavily-armored machine that is monitored by camera and can only be accessed via biometric scanner. The only people allowed to access it are those who have a prescription for the opioid being dispensed, and they are only given their daily limit at a time. It just bypasses having to go wait in a pharmacy every day. This is one of the essential tenets of harm reduction for people with severe and dysfunctional drug addictions: lowering the barrier for the acquisition of services increases uptake.

Well that makes more sense, but I still don't think it's a good idea. People have stolen entire ATM machines. Also people will be robbed for their gear as soon as it comes out of the slot or whatever, won't they?
 
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