☠ WARNING ☠ *WARNING* Chronic ketamine/dissociative use causes bladder/organ damage

GearoftheYear

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I wouldn't take ketamine without omeprazole. It really helps balance the gut and as I tend to eat more when on ketamine it helps with that too. 20mg in some cases 40mg daily when really going hard. Also probiotic yoghurt drinks are something to drink regularly throughout the session.

If developing ulcer style symptoms change to lansoprazole and cease use immediately or you'll be off your feet a few weeks. Strong indica weed also helps but I find is best for when coming down off the ketamine and taking a break due to how strong weed can feel when on lots of ketamine. E.g. after a 2 week binge stop taking ketamine, keep on omeprazole and smoke heavily if any k cramps occur. I tend to go flat out on the ketamine and not sleep for a few days, then when I want sleep or have stuff to do the next day I dose some RSO coconut oil in green tea and this helps too but wont prevent the k cramps, just makes you more functional and allows the body to rest and work itself out.

Ketamine in binge amounts will completely disrupt your digestive system, you can become very bloated and constipated similar to certain IBS symptoms and this will continue even after stopping for a while.

Cystisis/UTI symptoms when using ketamine tend to be due to not drinking enough water and green tea. If in contact with the person I recommend them to stop ketamine use entirely, work on diet but also drink lots of green tea - a few cups a day. The symptoms should clear up in a few weeks as long as they stay off the ket and other drugs. Ketamine definitely induces UTI symptoms when using regularly but I've never found it to stick around as long as you stop using and focus on health and green tea. If it is cystisis the green tea will do no harm either.

I've been keeping track more recently and notice that 3.5-7g over a few days shouldn't be too bad. But if you're using 7g a day for a week or more I tend to get the k cramps, seems to be the way it disrupts digestive system and the build up of ketamine in the system.
 

Economy

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I did like 1.2g over 5-6 days last week (small bumps/lines from moment I woke up till passing out daily) and I feel like shittttttt, cramps and organ pain every day and I' worried it's getting worse with time not better, definitely peeing more often/smaller amounts for the last few days, but no blood luckily... first binge ever (couple prior uses lasting 1-2 days over the last year), super worried I fucked myself up permanently & almost went to the hospital last night after discomfort got really intense but feel mostly better now after showering and taking a walk. I think I had a small flashback last night because my eyes had suddenly dilated and I felt very, very weird although I've just smoked weed the last 3 days. Now I'm afraid to ever do it again, but of course I really want to finish off my bag. If I just go ahead and get the robot bladder can I do as much k as I want?
 
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Chris Timothy

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That's a lot of complaints for 1g. If you minded hydration at all, you're apparently one of the outliers easily harmed by this class of substances. One gets the dead bladder by drawing the line at bladder pain. Tolerating pain of multiple organs will get you multiple dead organs..
 

jhjhsdi

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That's a lot of complaints for 1g. If you minded hydration at all, you're apparently one of the outliers easily harmed by this class of substances. One gets the dead bladder by drawing the line at bladder pain. Tolerating pain of multiple organs will get you multiple dead organs..
I thought that. Ive never heard of someone getting so many problems from 1.2g
Never heard of anyone making 1.2g last so long either

@Economy id wager a bet that unfortunately you are just not genetically designed to handle K. If your tolerance is naturally low enough for 1200mg to last a 6 day all day long binge and also give you that much pain, id just stay away, maybe you are allergic - it is possible.
Do you sneeze alot when you sniff it, really runny nose?
 

Economy

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I'm not sure how much I did honestly, I know I had two bags from two different ppl and I paid 80$ for one and 100$ for the other, I live in Brooklyn and have no prior relationship with plugs so I assumed I only got about a gram in each bag since 80$-100$/g seems like the high end of prices according to a reddit thread I found, and NYC tends to get the high end on prices for everything. One was tons of little crystals like sugar and one was huge crystals I had to break up, I mixed the two a bit but mostly did the small crystal/shard/sugar looking stuff last week.

I started Halloween night, the first 3 days were great, then US Election night (day 4 I think) I randomly threw up but attributed it to eating nothing but candy for 4 days and I was possibly having a panic attack. I kept going until last Friday, about 7 days in total, mostly because at some point I realised I felt like shit whenever I wasnt on K, by day 7 I only felt "normal" when I was on K, that was also when I started to feel some discomfort, not exactly pain but I could tell something wasnt right, and my tolerance was getting bad. I did not start spitting the drip until the very last day I was on it, and I was pretty bad about hydration during those 7 days, I smoked almost an Oz of sour diesel across like 20-25 spliffs and smoked tons of cigarettes, I drank a few glasses of water a day but not a lot and pretty much only ate chocolate, candy, microwave food and fast food the whole time. I could tell something was wrong once I came down that night, lots of discomfort in my lower stomach, I wouldnt use the word pain it didnt really hurt but anyway, I took a couple days off but pretty soon convinced myself I didnt feel *that* bad and doing a bit more damage was worth another good night so I did more last Sunday night, that night I had to pee like 3x every hour and definitely had a very noticable *feeling* in my bladder but wasnt pain. After I came down the stomach cramps came back and I had to pee like every hourish for a couple days, Sunday night was the last time I took any but by Wednesday night the cramps had got really really bad, the pain seemed to peak then, actually the only time I would said I had actual pain and not just discomfort, and it was mostly concentrated in my lower stomach just under my belly button. I drank some green tea and it seemed to help a ton. By Thursday pain had mostly gone away and discomfort had weakened and moved further down my stomach under my waistline.

Now I still have a bit of discomfort but I do feel a lot better than i did Wednesday and it's really just a sort of warm feeling/very minor cramp feeling, and I have been using the restroom a more normal amount only a few times a day, although still get the feeling like I didnt get it all out, hoping that it will go away completely with time...

I don't know what the f Is wrong with me, I was doing small lines like 1/3 the width of a pencil and less than one inch long, maybe 6-8 lines like that a day... The first time I did K I did most of one of these 80$ bags over like 3 days and felt fine, I only did a little more than that over 7 days because I was purposely avoiding the hole this time, I've done K like 4 times over the last 10 months that's all I've done my whole life, I've spent about 250$ in total and still have probably a bit more than a gram left.

Edit: I used to take a ton of RCs age 14-18, I took like 25 hits of DOC washing out a vial when I was 16, 4-AcO-DMT a few times, tons of 2C-E, some NBOMbs, a bunch of Bk-MDMA, Mcat a few times, a lot of different stuff, plus mushrooms, mdma/mda, meth twice.. lots of cough syrup, and tons of alcohol, weed, cigs, and hydrocodone, xanax, adderall, muscle relaxers, vyvanse, kpin, nitrous...

Idk maybe my insides were already just waiting for something to push em over the edge, but I'm 23 now and I have basically only smoked weed for the last 5-6 years before getting this K earlier this year...

I've never felt anything like this before as far as pain/discomfort inside my body but definitely do remember having this "didnt get it all out" feeling for a while as a teen, it persisted for months maybe over a year and I think the DOC brought it on but I could be wrong.

(Other edits attempting more clarity)

P.S. I really want to do more and *most* of what I was experiencing has gone now, only a bit of discomfort left, though took damn near a week to feel normal-ish again... how bad of an idea is that?
 
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Chris Timothy

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^ Great post and very true, particularly:
Yet again, an example of the deceptive nature of arylcyclohexylamines.

It took me a long time to accept that ketamine was doing me any real harm, for sure.

People do report benefits of course... I'll say honestly, I am actually always skeptical even of these and wonder if there are some elements of self delusion going on. I believe that ketamine can have therapeutic value - done properly - but I have strong doubts it's possible to self-medicate therapeutically, for the vast majority of people. Even with medical supervision of course, since ketamine's approval for medical use there seem to be a huge number of very very shady "ketamine clinics" that seen to just operate on a "one or 2 megadoses and done", policy, whereas the actual approval in the states (AFAIK) is for almost sub-perceptual microdoses administered at regular intervals for a set period of time.

Of course, ketamine is a pseudo-psychedelic and any powerful psychedelic experience has the potential to promote long term positive changes, but not reliably, and especially not without follow up care from trained psychiatric professionals, preferably those with some specialisation in psychedelic medicine. And of course, again... ketamine is addictive, unlike the traditional psychedelics, and as such even a single life-altering experience is liable to have it's benefits quickly undone by chasing that unique dissociated magic. Again, obviously this is especially true for those who are self-medicating, even those who initially DID benefit from it. If one experience did good, why not several? But, with this drug less is often more.


I know where you're coming from, @Vastness. You make a very valid point (though it's perhaps a bit ironic to suggest psychiatry instead of something unreliable, heh). But still there's something funny about calling dissociatives "pseudo-psychedelics". There's the underlying assumption there that the application is comparable. After all, a potato might be a pseudo-carrot, but if it's called a pseudo-hammer our presuppositions are off, you see?

Let's indeed explicitly acknowledge dissociatives are too harmful to be used as psychedelics. Let's at the same time not use demonization to abdicate responsibility. I've always been against such approach, not out of some warped sense of loyalty, but because it has always struck me that it's exactly an analysis that refuses to integrate the benefit component that sets up the pathological split situation of aversive rational stance versus approaching intuitive feeling. In the same way people with a sugar addiction do themselves a disservice by holding on to a limited model of how sugar works. The best behaviour towards nutrition is to be expected if one doesn't have the creeping feeling one's rational discourse about it is lacking.

And here's the trouble: why would a pseudo-psychedelic give moments or periods of greater clarity than a psychedelic? Well, let's look at the neurological mechanisms, and the subjective observations. Psychedelics add noise to the senses. Dissociatives shut off the senses. Granted, sustained shutting off of the senses in this fashion ruins one's health, and the added noise tends to propel one into previously inaccessible spaces. But if we, after declaring psychedelics good and dissociatives bad, still have the desire to return, and see the deceit in ceasing analysis, just calling it addiction/deception, and putting on the skeptical hat for the reported perks and be done with it right there, then there's the pithy explanation.

So let's logically continue that train of thought. Rather than adding noise, rather than shutting off senses through psychedelic DDOS, we'd rather simply shut off the senses. Doing this chemically is a great introduction to the principle. But for long-term, sustained practice it's necessary to do this physically. John C. Lilly devised a method for this.

Therefore I invite you to turn your conclusion upside down. Psychedelics are pseudo-dissociatives. And dissociatives are pseudo-flotation-tanks.
 

LucidSDreamr

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I'm not sure how much I did honestly, I know I had two bags from two different ppl and I paid 80$ for one and 100$ for the other, I live in Brooklyn and have no prior relationship with plugs so I assumed I only got about a gram in each bag since 80$-100$/g seems like the high end of prices according to a reddit thread I found, and NYC tends to get the high end on prices for everything. One was tons of little crystals like sugar and one was huge crystals I had to break up, I mixed the two a bit but mostly did the small crystal/shard/sugar looking stuff last week.

I started Halloween night, the first 3 days were great, then US Election night (day 4 I think) I randomly threw up but attributed it to eating nothing but candy for 4 days and I was possibly having a panic attack. I kept going until last Friday, about 7 days in total, mostly because at some point I realised I felt like shit whenever I wasnt on K, by day 7 I only felt "normal" when I was on K, that was also when I started to feel some discomfort, not exactly pain but I could tell something wasnt right, and my tolerance was getting bad. I did not start spitting the drip until the very last day I was on it, and I was pretty bad about hydration during those 7 days, I smoked almost an Oz of sour diesel across like 20-25 spliffs and smoked tons of cigarettes, I drank a few glasses of water a day but not a lot and pretty much only ate chocolate, candy, microwave food and fast food the whole time. I could tell something was wrong once I came down that night, lots of discomfort in my lower stomach, I wouldnt use the word pain it didnt really hurt but anyway, I took a couple days off but pretty soon convinced myself I didnt feel *that* bad and doing a bit more damage was worth another good night so I did more last Sunday night, that night I had to pee like 3x every hour and definitely had a very noticable *feeling* in my bladder but wasnt pain. After I came down the stomach cramps came back and I had to pee like every hourish for a couple days, Sunday night was the last time I took any but by Wednesday night the cramps had got really really bad, the pain seemed to peak then, actually the only time I would said I had actual pain and not just discomfort, and it was mostly concentrated in my lower stomach just under my belly button. I drank some green tea and it seemed to help a ton. By Thursday pain had mostly gone away and discomfort had weakened and moved further down my stomach under my waistline.

Now I still have a bit of discomfort but I do feel a lot better than i did Wednesday and it's really just a sort of warm feeling/very minor cramp feeling, and I have been using the restroom a more normal amount only a few times a day, although still get the feeling like I didnt get it all out, hoping that it will go away completely with time...

I don't know what the f Is wrong with me, I was doing small lines like 1/3 the width of a pencil and less than one inch long, maybe 6-8 lines like that a day... The first time I did K I did most of one of these 80$ bags over like 3 days and felt fine, I only did a little more than that over 7 days because I was purposely avoiding the hole this time, I've done K like 4 times over the last 10 months that's all I've done my whole life, I've spent about 250$ in total and still have probably a bit more than a gram left.

Edit: I used to take a ton of RCs age 14-18, I took like 25 hits of DOC washing out a vial when I was 16, 4-AcO-DMT a few times, tons of 2C-E, some NBOMbs, a bunch of Bk-MDMA, Mcat a few times, a lot of different stuff, plus mushrooms, mdma/mda, meth twice.. lots of cough syrup, and tons of alcohol, weed, cigs, and hydrocodone, xanax, adderall, muscle relaxers, vyvanse, kpin, nitrous...

Idk maybe my insides were already just waiting for something to push em over the edge, but I'm 23 now and I have basically only smoked weed for the last 5-6 years before getting this K earlier this year...

I've never felt anything like this before as far as pain/discomfort inside my body but definitely do remember having this "didnt get it all out" feeling for a while as a teen, it persisted for months maybe over a year and I think the DOC brought it on but I could be wrong.

(Other edits attempting more clarity)

P.S. I really want to do more and *most* of what I was experiencing has gone now, only a bit of discomfort left, though took damn near a week to feel normal-ish again... how bad of an idea is that?
It's a horrible idea. Just because your pain left does not mean the damage is not there anymore and your bladder has reset itself to being brand new.

What you are describing is exactly how it went down with me (the OP). Binges and mild pain that would last for a few days then be gone.

Until one day the pain just never left. 3 years later and still experiencing severe pain and symptoms.

Fuck around and find out the hard way or listen to your body now.
 

jhjhsdi

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I found some disturbing pictures on my laptop of what I was pissing out before rehab. Not sure if I'm going to upload them here or in a seperate thread.
If I do them into a separate thread I'll link it here.
Not yet though. Just woke up for a piss and going back to sleep
 

Economy

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It's a horrible idea. Just because your pain left does not mean the damage is not there anymore and your bladder has reset itself to being brand new.

What you are describing is exactly how it went down with me (the OP). Binges and mild pain that would last for a few days then be gone.

Until one day the pain just never left. 3 years later and still experiencing severe pain and symptoms.

Fuck around and find out the hard way or listen to your body now.

I did finish off what I had a few weeks ago, pain is only noticeable for me when laying on my stomach, I cant really sleep on my stomach anymore and if i do manage to pass out like that I wake up with some real discomfort, it has been ongoing since I ran out which isnt great but I dont notice it so much outside of when I'm trying to sleep. For whatever reason as long as lie on my back I feel mostly normal.

Piss is sometimes totally clear, sometimes cloudy/darker color sitting at the bottom of the pot. Havent figured out if this is based on hydration/diet or just going back and forth for some other reason, but It feels like it has been cloudy less and less often as time goes on. I don't plan on buying anymore k.

I've also noticed a bit of increased discomfort when smoking lots of cigarettes or joints, I'm thinking this is because they dehydrate me which may cause shriveling/contraction but not sure. Green tea does feel like it helps, I need to remember to drink it more often.

I have noticed I have possibly been having some difficulty breaking out or thinking outside the box of the thought patterns I was having during my trip. Not really any general issue "going outside the box" in a problem-solving sense, but like, for example I've been applying for a specific type of job recently, something I was thinking about wanting to pursue during my binge, and I have been anxious about not being able to find work in time to pay my rent by the end of the month, i havent heard back on most of my applications so I that was further adding to my anxiety, then someone suggested "well if you really need work just apply at Target." and that hadn't even occurred to me to do for the past couple weeks, the fact that I could take a job outside this sector I'm interested in if the need arose, I couldnt see any other plan or way forward besides continuing to apply for more of this one type of job. It definitely feels somewhat like the binge left me with kinda mental tunnel vision on many of the subjects I was thinking about during the binge, but abstract problems I have no issue examining from different angles.
 
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jhjhsdi

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I finally posted those pics.
Prepare to be grossed out
I thought they were probably better suited to the dark side forum than as a thread in PD. Could seriously ruin someones trip lol

 
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jhjhsdi

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Thanks for posting this, jhjhsdi
Not a problem I've wanted to post them for ages I thought I'd lost the photos, so glad I found them.
I hope that they can help some people.
Can you do that clever mod thing ive seen you do on trip reports where you hashtag them at the bottom so they easily come up in searches, say if I send you a list of words/phrase to # via pm? Ones I was searching myself at the time and not having any luck.
 

Xorkoth

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Well that system is something implemented in Trip Reports that is supposed to use a special search engine eventually. It uses coded text strings that the search engine will know to look for. But the functionality got broken once we upgraded the site software. It was never just a series of words or phrases.
 

jhjhsdi

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@Xorkoth
Ah i see. No worries! If i wrote a load of phrases at the bottom of the post like
Ketamine bladder syndrome
Pissing blood ketamine
Green lumps in urine ketamine
Blood in urine ketamine
Etc, things that I was searching myself back then..
That would help locate the post through something like google right? (and BLs search engine)
I really need to sleep now i need to be up in 4hrs ish but if it'll help people searching for help or advice I'll do it later on today 👍
 

Chris Timothy

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Magnesium should be mentioned in the context of ketamine harm reduction. It's doing some harm-reversing for what I suspect is the dissociative component for my tinnitus case. Considering that magnesium even significantly helps prevent tinnitus in general, even if not chemically induced, it should therefore help prevent ketamine ototoxicity in particular.

On form, bisglycinate is better than citrate is better than oxide. The first two bypass the absorption mechanism for inorganic matter, for which there's competition. And the first one gets more efficiently delivered to the brain in particular.

Since it's technically an NMDA-antagonist as well it certainly won't hinder the effects.
 

G_Chem

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Magnesium should be mentioned in the context of ketamine harm reduction. It's doing some harm-reversing for what I suspect is the dissociative component for my tinnitus case. Considering that magnesium even significantly helps prevent tinnitus in general, even if not chemically induced, it should therefore help prevent ketamine ototoxicity in particular.

On form, bisglycinate is better than citrate is better than oxide. The first two bypass the absorption mechanism for inorganic matter, for which there's competition. And the first one gets more efficiently delivered to the brain in particular.

Since it's technically an NMDA-antagonist as well it certainly won't hinder the effects.

I personally like magnesium l-threonate although it’s not cheap.

-GC
 

jhjhsdi

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@Chris Timothy
I take Magnesium tablets every night when I take the rest of my vitamins/supplements.
They're 600mg iirc. Had no idea they could be useful for k harm reduction.
I take it because I heard it can help with sleep, and also depression.
 

LucidSDreamr

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I thought they were probably better suited to the dark side forum than as a thread in PD. Could seriously ruin someones trip lol

Maybe a bad trip thining about health consequences is the trauma some people need to respect drugs often perceived as harmless compared to "hard" drugs.
 
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