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☠ WARNING ☠ *WARNING* Chronic ketamine/dissociative use causes bladder/organ damage

Shinji Ikari

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Yeah, probably the easy availability of low price K in some places led to use we haven't seen before but some are reporting issues with just a few ten grams over a few months. Once I used 25g of Darknet K over a few days and got an agony of K cramps pain which 15x the amount of 2F DCK didn't remotely. So I'd say norket is urotoxic but only slightly and we have similar but much more toxic compounds in there or metabolized out of some synth leftover.

Illicit K is considered pure when it has some 84-86% afaik. That's not really a good value and leaves space for God knows what not.
Bladder issues seem pretty widespread geographically with people around the world being affected. I don't know how to explain that unless the entire worlds supply of ketamine is coming from a single source (not that I know anything about the illicit ketamine supply chain, maybe it does come from a single source).

Most samples on drugs data just show ketamine and leftover precursor whatever that entails.

I'd be inclined to side with the hypothesis that people just take a lot more ketamine these days and that's led to more reports of this kind emerging. Compounded as you said by cheap easy access to the drug but also by the fact that everyone has broadband and smartphones so word spreads faster than 20 years ago. What else can we assume unless something weird and identifiably bladder melting shows up in a lab test?
 

Tramalala

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Didn't read through the whole thread but isn't it widely known that GreenTea helps a lot with protecting your bladder from ketamine damage? Or even restoring it. Once I started to pee more and it would sometimes leak when doing a lot of dissos I read about the greentea and I found a lot of relieve within a few days. 2-3 greentea cups a day and your bladder will feel like normal again soon.
 

plumbus-nine

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Didn't read through the whole thread but isn't it widely known that GreenTea helps a lot with protecting your bladder from ketamine damage? Or even restoring it. Once I started to pee more and it would sometimes leak when doing a lot of dissos I read about the greentea and I found a lot of relieve within a few days. 2-3 greentea cups a day and your bladder will feel like normal again soon.
Somehow I don't buy these natural-stuff-heals-all claims but maybe there's something into it. My gf drinks every day 3-6 cups of green tea and swears on its protective effects against all sorts of sicknesses but I guess she's just a healthy person and a bit addicted to caffeine... yet anything anti-inflammatory might help with ketamine use, as well it is essential to stay hydrated. Curious whether e.g. ibuprofen taken together with the ket could prevent the worst?

It doesn't have to be a single supply but the same synthesis route which is a lot more plausible, as many precursors to drugs are controlled and limited so people go for whatever's the easiest one to source (see meth, there's a bit more known about how it's cooked). It might be that some of the leftover precursors which will have similar structures to e.g. norketamine but maybe it's of potency like PCP at whatever binding site's responsible for the urotoxic effects.. it's not NMDA at least as far I know, so not related to the compound's potency as a dissociative. I used PCP only as an example. There are some uber potent arylcyclohexylamines like BTPC (maybe I spelled it wrong), which isn't a disso but a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Also I have some hunch that the arylcyclohexylamines or part of them are actually either direct or indirect agonists at steroid receptors. These are involved in inflammatory responses (see cortisol). Now cortisol is anti-inflammatory afaik(?) - imagine an extremely potent compound with the inverse effects of cortisol, which accumulates in the bladder as a terminal metabolite (that's significant amounts only occur in the bladder) and voila.
 

Tramalala

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Somehow I don't buy these natural-stuff-heals-all claims but maybe there's something into it. My gf drinks every day 3-6 cups of green tea and swears on its protective effects against all sorts of sicknesses but I guess she's just a healthy person and a bit addicted to caffeine... yet anything anti-inflammatory might help with ketamine use, as well it is essential to stay hydrated. Curious whether e.g. ibuprofen taken together with the ket could prevent the worst?

It doesn't have to be a single supply but the same synthesis route which is a lot more plausible, as many precursors to drugs are controlled and limited so people go for whatever's the easiest one to source (see meth, there's a bit more known about how it's cooked). It might be that some of the leftover precursors which will have similar structures to e.g. norketamine but maybe it's of potency like PCP at whatever binding site's responsible for the urotoxic effects.. it's not NMDA at least as far I know, so not related to the compound's potency as a dissociative. I used PCP only as an example. There are some uber potent arylcyclohexylamines like BTPC (maybe I spelled it wrong), which isn't a disso but a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Also I have some hunch that the arylcyclohexylamines or part of them are actually either direct or indirect agonists at steroid receptors. These are involved in inflammatory responses (see cortisol). Now cortisol is anti-inflammatory afaik(?) - imagine an extremely potent compound with the

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1879522615004157

It's a study on rats though so take that for what it's worth. In my personal experience it helps and I believe there is a big reddit thread on it too with people supposedly getting beneficial effects.
 

plumbus-nine

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https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1879522615004157

It's a study on rats though so take that for what it's worth. In my personal experience it helps and I believe there is a big reddit thread on it too with people supposedly getting beneficial effects.
Interesting, it can't hurt to drink some strong green tea alongside arylcyclohexylamine use but again, from my experiences I suspect that there's something different wrong than just ketamine metabolites but then again, when it's synth leftovers then they might have a similar structure/mode of action and thus green tea still help ...

It should be made easier for interested laymen to conduct experiments with cell lines etc. so that one could try whether this applies to humans too and what dosage/concentration of these catchines is necessary.
 

G_Chem

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The weird point remains that K has been around for long time and some used it for years on end without getting any bladder related discomfort (see John Lilly) - this makes me believe that we have it to do with some nasty synth leftover rather than the K itself. Arylcyclohexylamines are somewhat irritant to the bladder but this here is far far worse. Also the RCs (2-F and DCK) did only minorly irritate even after probably two-three years of multiple doses daily. It's not healthy for sure but nothing like what we see with current illicit ketamine.

I think your right Plumbus. I’ve talked about just how sensitive I am before, and I notice problems only with certain batches.

When we look at DrugsData we see much of the Ketamine contains at least 1 precursor of which they don’t identify. It’s rare to not find this precursor in modern Ketamine.

-GC
 

Shinji Ikari

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It's a scary thought. If it really is a synthesis change resulting in leftover precursor that's leading to these reports then no amount of ketamine usage can be assumed to be safe. How do you practice harm reduction when there are no reliable metrics for what degree of usage begins to cause damage? I wonder if it might be worth trying to contact someone from drugsdata to find out what 'precursor A' entails. For all we know it might be something new that wasn't appearing in earlier samples or it might just be that they didn't report leftover synth materials in earlier samples. I don't know.

It's a bummer as I've only just begun experimenting with dissociatives and have already had some fascinating experiences while in the hole. All of this just makes we want to steer clear completely.
 

Tramalala

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It's a scary thought. If it really is a synthesis change resulting in leftover precursor that's leading to these reports then no amount of ketamine usage can be assumed to be safe. How do you practice harm reduction when there are no reliable metrics for what degree of usage begins to cause damage? I wonder if it might be worth trying to contact someone from drugsdata to find out what 'precursor A' entails. For all we know it might be something new that wasn't appearing in earlier samples or it might just be that they didn't report leftover synth materials in earlier samples. I don't know.

It's a bummer as I've only just begun experimenting with dissociatives and have already had some fascinating experiences while in the hole. All of this just makes we want to steer clear completely.
I mean from reports I've read and my own experiences it doesn't look like suddenly you just started pissing out your bladder-lining. It will start slowly with pain, some incontinence etc. If you get any of those warning signs you should obviously quit for an extended period and it looks like your bladder will then heal itself, mostly. As long as you stay hydrated with water and green tea.

And this is only with heavy use. I doubt using ketamine or any of the currently more common dissos once or twice a month is going to do much damage. Ofcourse, there is always a risk. Some might be more susceptible to these side-effects than others. YMMV and be careful, listen to your body!
 

Shinji Ikari

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Ofcourse, there is always a risk. Some might be more susceptible to these side-effects than others. YMMV and be careful, listen to your body!
I get what you're saying, I'd just rather avoid getting to the point where I have to listen to my body. Prevention is better than cure and all that.

To be fair, I wasn't planning on using ketamine more than once or twice a month anyway as building a tolerance really would be waste, this compound has bought me to insightful and introspective states that I've not been able to replicate in any other way. All the same, It's kind of hard to push this kind of thing to the back of my mind even as a relatively modest user.
 

jhjhsdi

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If anyone was worried about their usage vis-a-vis bladder damage and needed a deterrent, these specimens have appeared on reddit over the last week or so. Graphics image warning close your eyes and scroll past if you don't want to see what happens when you cause so much damage you literally start pissing your bladder out:
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https://www.reddit.com/r/ketamine/comments/pcqufu
https://www.reddit.com/r/ketamine/comments/pcx4m1
For the sake of avoiding fear-mongering, it is worth noting that the people who posted these images were chronic users who had been abusing ketamine on a daily basis for over a year. This isn't something that would affect the majority of casual users.
Savage to see other people going through that shit. I been there pissing out that same exact shit and its fuckin horrible (check the first link in my sig)
Took a month of complete abstinence from K in IP rehab and co-amoxiclav plus oxybutyn for bladder spasms, and opiates and benzos 4 x daily for the pain until the snot and puss finally fucked off. That was over 5 years ago and my bladder still isnt back to normal - it'll never be.
Best of luck to anyone suffering like that - i wouldn't wish that shit on many people.
They need to STOP and NOW! The specialists told me i had 2 weeks to a month of continuing use before I would have had to have had my bladder removed.
 

Shinji Ikari

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Savage to see other people going through that shit. I been there pissing out that same exact shit and its fuckin horrible (check the first link in my sig)
Took a month of complete abstinence from K in IP rehab and co-amoxiclav plus oxybutyn for bladder spasms, and opiates and benzos 4 x daily for the pain until the snot and puss finally fucked off. That was over 5 years ago and my bladder still isnt back to normal - it'll never be.
Best of luck to anyone suffering like that - i wouldn't wish that shit on many people.
They need to STOP and NOW! The specialists told me i had 2 weeks to a month of continuing use before I would have had to have had my bladder removed.
I'm so sorry you had to go through all that but at the same time congratulations on how far you've come and thank you for being so open about your story, I really think seeing this kind of will help a lot of people who are on the same tracks you were. Sometimes this kind of thing doesn't seem real when you're just hearing about it, but seeing it up close is something else entirely.

Also, Urology Department, lol.
 

plumbus-nine

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I mean from reports I've read and my own experiences it doesn't look like suddenly you just started pissing out your bladder-lining. It will start slowly with pain, some incontinence etc. If you get any of those warning signs you should obviously quit for an extended period and it looks like your bladder will then heal itself, mostly. As long as you stay hydrated with water and green tea.
It's a bummer as I've only just begun experimenting with dissociatives and have already had some fascinating experiences while in the hole. All of this just makes we want to steer clear completely.

Yeah, I see it this way, that current illicit K is the physically most dangerous dissociative out there. I got an agony of spasm pain from as little as 25g ket over maybe 5 days while I used shitloads of the deschlorinated RCs with next to no adverse effects besides one contaiminated batch which caused excessive vascoconstriction and maybe a heart attack or something which looks and feels like one (ugh. But I don't want to scare monger, it was my own fault, I wanted to buy cheap and went darknet / shady China vendors instead of so-called trusted ones, and without the destructive mindset I had at that time I had stopped before, there were solid symptoms which pointed to toxicity but I didn't listen).

So, if you can, get 2F or DCK from one of these vendors with good reviews. Some actually test their shit or buy from others which tested, of course you should never really believe what they say and if you can, get a test yourself, you have only one single body and health, no drug is worth to ruin it for. Unfortunately even the better drug test corps seem to be unable to identify synth leftovers they don't have a reference for, which makes it impossible to discriminate between harmless and harmful impurities but if they show up to be whatever lactose, MSG etc then you know that it'll hopefully be safe.
 

HearWhalesLaugh

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After a recent 3 day mini binge of ketalogues (I only say mini cuz I kept it functional and wasn’t holing etc) my bladder has a “presence” lol ... I think I better to treat larger dose dissociatives like ket, dck and 2F like ayahuasca and only do once a year in large amounts. The PCx class can hold me with it’s smaller doses if I need my medicine to make my 🖼. (I have severe adhd and dissociatives help me 1000x more than amphets)
 

plumbus-nine

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After a recent 3 day mini binge of ketalogues (I only say mini cuz I kept it functional and wasn’t holing etc) my bladder has a “presence” lol ... I think I better to treat larger dose dissociatives like ket, dck and 2F like ayahuasca and only do once a year in large amounts. The PCx class can hold me with it’s smaller doses if I need my medicine to make my 🖼. (I have severe adhd and dissociatives help me 1000x more than amphets)
Did you care for staying well hydrated? In my experience that's crucial, dissociatives disconnect you from your basic instincts and masks the feelings of hunger and specially thirst which causes the urine to be heavily concentrated and gives rise to whatever toxicity the compounds in it want to cause. Also my limited bladder volume which I began to have after severely abusing ketalogues healed completely during maybe 6-9 months and I got dehydrated fairly often what ketamine itself (or maybe that illicit synth-wrecked shit currently going around as such - I fully believe it's from the same labs but what the more reputable shops turn down to sell - the RC market is huge at least I guess so, that it's much bigger than I or many would estimate) wouldn't have let me get away with.
 

jhjhsdi

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I think I better to treat larger dose dissociatives like ket, dck and 2F like ayahuasca and only do once a year in large amounts.
This is how I wish i had thought back when i first tried k/mxe etc
The PCx class can hold me with it’s smaller doses if I need my medicine to make my 🖼.
Hmmmm. Favorite? Mildest?
Which is the least, you know, 'not-sleep-blackout-and-eat-the-rest-of-the-stash-and-get-all-psychosis-y' ?
 

HearWhalesLaugh

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This is how I wish i had thought back when i first tried k/mxe etc

Hmmmm. Favorite? Mildest?
Which is the least, you know, 'not-sleep-blackout-and-eat-the-rest-of-the-stash-and-get-all-psychosis-y' ?
3-ho-pce is the only one I have tried, and it’s about as manic as DMXE , and I am terrified of blacking out so never dose that high. It’s fairly mild from what I’ve read about the others PCx homies, although I do have a tiny sample of the 3-F-pcp to try someday (scared of pcp blackouts)
 

HearWhalesLaugh

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Did you care for staying well hydrated? In my experience that's crucial, dissociatives disconnect you from your basic instincts and masks the feelings of hunger and specially thirst which causes the urine to be heavily concentrated and gives rise to whatever toxicity the compounds in it want to cause. Also my limited bladder volume which I began to have after severely abusing ketalogues healed completely during maybe 6-9 months and I got dehydrated fairly often what ketamine itself (or maybe that illicit synth-wrecked shit currently going around as such - I fully believe it's from the same labs but what the more reputable shops turn down to sell - the RC market is huge at least I guess so, that it's much bigger than I or many would estimate) wouldn't have let me get away with.
Yeah this time i definitely could have had more water. I drank about a gallon in 12 hours, should probably double that. And also I’m gonna fuck off with the dissos for a while, I’m too damn fat for these hoes and I’m sure my blood pressure is terrifying when I’m holing.

not tryna stroke out mid-hole lol.
So I’m starting my diet today dammit! And this time it’s not for my health or to attract the partners , but I’m losing weight so I don’t pop a neural blood vessel from my “High-G Burns” (I watch too much The Expanse on dissos lol)
 

G_Chem

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Yeah this time i definitely could have had more water. I drank about a gallon in 12 hours, should probably double that. And also I’m gonna fuck off with the dissos for a while, I’m too damn fat for these hoes and I’m sure my blood pressure is terrifying when I’m holing.

not tryna stroke out mid-hole lol.
So I’m starting my diet today dammit! And this time it’s not for my health or to attract the partners , but I’m losing weight so I don’t pop a neural blood vessel from my “High-G Burns” (I watch too much The Expanse on dissos lol)

One huge reason I eat healthy and exercise so much is so I can continue my drug use :) In my opinion it’s impossible to keep a long relationship with certain substances unless one does so, in my case MDMA.

-GC
 

jhjhsdi

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(scared of pcp blackouts)
Same here mate lol ive had load of blackouts on MXE and a fair few on MXP and diphenidine, and they were not good lol. Btw yes u need to drink more water.
One huge reason I eat healthy and exercise so much is so I can continue my drug use
Yeah I'm with you on that one. If you eat healthy go gym and don't binge, drink fuck loads of water and take the right supplements you can just about get away with doing weekly k lol
 

HearWhalesLaugh

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Same here mate lol ive had load of blackouts on MXE and a fair few on MXP and diphenidine, and they were not good lol. Btw yes u need to drink more water.

Yeah I'm with you on that one. If you eat healthy go gym and don't binge, drink fuck loads of water and take the right supplements you can just about get away with doing weekly k lol
Yeah that’s quite the motivator. I can’t believe when I was young how
I would shovel k into my nose while
On a bunch of dirty pressies and chain smoke cheap cigarettes , then go eat McDonald’s in the morning...omg my poor heart lol
 
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