Treatment Week 5 on Methadone

[mhansen43]

Hey guys! So I started on methadone about 5 weeks ago and I'm up to 90mg (I had a 5-7 bundle a day habit and for those who don't know a bundle is 10 bags) I'm kinda ok at this dose but sometimes I still feel the withdraw especially when I'm rounding up on time to go get my next dose it's like it doesn't last the full 24 hours but I don't want to go any higher, I didn't want to go this high, I didn't want to go on methadone but I couldn't get the amount of time needed to go back on subs, the shit I get has fentanyl in it and I threw myself into precipitated withdraw too many times and that's the absolute worst and I wanted to get off junk so badly I decided to go on methadone. My question about it is when I was on subs I felt great I had energy I was happy my life was really good but I don't feel that way on methadone. I have absolutely no energy I don't care about anything I just want to lay in bed all day I'm so depressed I have the "fuck it's" 24/7 and I feel weird all the time. Is this how it is on methadone? Because I am not going to keep doing it if that's the case what's the point ya know! I mean 90mg is a lot right or could it be because I'm not at the right dose? Idk what to do but I feel like shit all the time and I'm already depressed and adding to my depression is not good of you know what I mean. What is your experience with methadone did you feel like this until you reached the right dose or is methadone not for me? I feel like I made the worst decision ever by getting on this and now I feel like I'm going to feel like this forever.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

You are on waaayyy too high of a dose imo.

There is 0 way you were doing 50-70 legit bags a day. 50 bags from me? From the block? Your middle man dealer down the street? Or from a high end dealer that only sells in mass bulk. Very bad way to measure dope usage and means nothing in regard to methadone dosage.

It doesn't matter what dose you go to, tolerance will always creep. Waking up sick is normal. But you're not really sick. It's really just an uncomfortable feeling since dose levels are low. Takes about 3 days of no methadone to really start the sickness.

The difference with methadone is you are dosing once a day. Subs you would dose once a day also? Or a couple times a day?

Things like nicotine, liquor, hep c, poor eating will make your dose run through you faster. Same as taking on empty stomach.

Split dosing your takehomes once you get them may help.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

I would get your blood checked too. Make sure all your levels are OK. Could be an underlying issue. However what you are describing is not normal. 90mg is a pretty large dose (I wouldn't get too tied up on the methadone number since all methadones are different). But that dose should be sufficient. Waking up "feeling" ill is quite normal. And how people end up on such high doses. Raising that dose would solve it, only for a short time, until tolerance begins to creep again. And would suggest not blowing your receptors out from methadone dosing next.

Additionally, other drugs and medication can affect you. If you touched fent even in the last 30 days, that is enough to completely throw you off.

Withdrawals you have been through over the years will affect you.

Underlying conditions such as anxiety, depression, ocd, other mental illness, etc can all affect you. Your brain may being actively looking for symptoms. Or your body may actually be throwing you symptoms but they are being covered up by the methadone, and your thought its opiate withdrawal. Even a vitamin deficiency can mimic opiate withdrawal in an opiate addicts mind.

In short, stop looking at the methadone since not your issue. Something else is going on with your health.

 

[JessFR]

I would get your blood checked too. Make sure all your levels are OK. Could be an underlying issue. However what you are describing is not normal. 90mg is a pretty large dose (I wouldn't get too tied up on the methadone number since all methadones are different). But that dose should be sufficient. Waking up "feeling" ill is quite normal. And how people end up on such high doses. Raising that dose would solve it, only for a short time, until tolerance begins to creep again. And would suggest not blowing your receptors out from methadone dosing next.

Sorry but I don't agree. I'm on 80mg of methadone, and I don't wake up in withdrawal. Not at all. And I've been on it 3 years. I don't get what I would call sick until about 36 hours after my last dose on the early side.

Now I don't wanna act like everyone's the same and my experience should be everyone's, but my only conclusion here is that 90mg really isn't enough.

It would be uncommon, but with a high enough habit it can happen.

Unfortunately this doesn't answer the lethargy problem. Methadone is certainly a sedating opioid and it's by no means unusual to feel sedated after taking it, but it shouldn't be overpowering or make life feel not worth it.

Of course it's conceivable different people have different reactions. There could also be metabolic differences.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

You can certainly make your own opinion without "disagreeing".

Everyone has different metabolism. OP needs a peak and trough test, not an increase.

More drugs is not always the answer. Its actually never the answer.

 

[somnilicious]

This is a tough one as you need to work with the doctors and tell them how you feel. I also don't agree that 90mg is way to high of a dose. Regardless of how cut or light your bundles were that is still a lot of dope and 90mg would have been on the higher dosing end but now that heroin is not heroin the bar has been raised.

It's going to take some time to stabilize but you should not be waking up sick. A peak trough test will only provide half the picture as it will only tell you how fast your body is metabolizing your dose. It however won't tell you anything about your current tolerance or how much methadone your body needs in order to stay out of withdrawal.

It actually does sound like your dose is too low. If you are waking up in withdrawal then you are probably not getting restful sleep and when you do dose again your body is going from methadone levels that are too low to a morning peak which combined with poor sleep would cause one to want to lay in bed all day. This is actually exactly how I felt when I was in rehab and they started rapid tapering me off methadone. My dose began wearing off and disrupting my sleep and then when I dosed in the morning while sick I actually started feeling the methadone more than I had the entire 3yrs I was on the program. This however made me feel lazy, depressed and like I wanted to lay in bed all day exactly as you describe.

 

[JessFR]

You can certainly make your own opinion without "disagreeing".

Everyone has different metabolism. OP needs a peak and trough test, not an increase.

More drugs is not always the answer. Its actually never the answer.

There isn't an answer. The whole idea of there being an answer is misguided.

If there were an answer, it would mean there's this thing you can do and you'll never use drugs again. There isn't.

There are only options to improve the quality and functioning of life. Substitution therapy is one option, one of the most effective ones statistically speaking. Sobriety is another.

Neither are an answer. Because it is entirely likely you'll use again at some point with either.

Though with sobriety when you do it's more likely to result in death. Of course substitution therapy has its own downsides.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

I'm so depressed I have the "fuck it's" 24/7 and I feel weird all the time.

I would not give more drugs. Sounds like its amplifying everything.

Methadone is not for everyone also. And walking zonbie doses suck more.

You will never feel better than sobriety. And yeah I have relapsed tons. Have more OD's than I like to admit. And no doubt since I have had lots of sobriety. But they were all my own fault. Don't use. And if you use be very careful. You do everything to yourself. And if you want to take another drug instead, sure. But you are still on drugs. The opposite of what you want to do if you want to feel good as possible.

Some people do need it for pain and dependency they cannot get rid of. But methadone itself is not always tolerable. I know many people that just stopped taking it and never took it again even though they use plenty of opiates. I personally don't like being on it much either. Its a shitty cycle. But I have no pain. Would imagine if I had serious pain and the methadone was helping lots, I would view it differently. To me its just an opiate cycle. You are 2 different people at 4 hours post dose, and 2 hours pre dose in different levels of an opiate high, wear off, and pre sickness. Kinda gets old fast. When you are sober, you are the same person always.

 

[cowboycurtis]

Ya I would definitely have to disagree with 90 mg being too high a dose for most people. I'm pretty sure 80-90 mg is where the receptor saturation effect of methadone starts to become really pronounced. Anything lower and I think a good number of people still experience cravings and, on top of that, can still get somewhat high. Certainly most physical withdrawal symptoms are held at bay by about 30-40 mg, but it takes time and multiple doses to build up to an acceptable effect. I know that's what has gotten me in the past: staying low to avoid having to come off such a high dose but still fighting cravings and using on top. It completely defeats the purpose of being on methadone IMO. The point is to stabilize you so you can function in the real world without having to worry about cravings or getting well. Most people really shouldn't have to worry about waking up sick either if they've been dosing for at least a week. I think a lot of that might just be the anticipation of dosing. I know methadone held me at least 36 hrs and often times 48+. With that being said, everyone is different and it's all about finding the right dose for you. So use the resources available to you and get there.

 

[Ganjcat]

The OP has other issues. Its not related to the dose, I am certain. If he is saying methadone makes him feel "weird", why on earth would you think more methadone would help? He has underlying issues. Sounds like a blown out liver to me. But a peak and trough test will show. Methadone should make you feel calm and relaxed. Jumping straight from that much using onto 90mg without proper doctor intervention is insane. I would bet this guy couldn't tell you his liver enzyme count if you had a gun pointed to his head. But lets give him more drugs

Either way. Methadone is still an opiate. Opiates have tolerance. Doesn't matter what dose you are on, its an opiate. Tolerance will come. 60mg same as 90mg after being on it for ~6-12 months. I know people that have been on it 20+ years on doses near 200mg and still use, still are scratching on the door 5 minutes before the clinic opens. Dose is irrelevant. Its all about behavior. Giving someone a fat dose of methadone so they are blitzed out in an opiate haze is only going to work until that haze fades off. Then they will need more, and more, and more. And now you just created a dependency from hell. Likely 10-20x worse than when you started.

Talk to anyone that has been on it for 10 years and ask them why they are still on it. Because they cannot get off. If you thought you had issues before methadone, just wait until you dose 80mg+ for years and years. Its unlikely you will ever recover from that.

And lets not forget about the fact methadone is hard on the liver, the heart, causes weight gain, GI tract issues, etc. Along with impotence in men, lowered testosterone. The whole works.

High dose maintenance is a flawed concept. It only benefits the clinics since the clinic is a business. Does not benefit the patient. Only destroys their brain and health. And creates a worse dependence.

They say most lifers die via heart attack taking a shit. Its the truth.

Best to get on that stuff, work your shit out, and get the fuck off. If you literally cannot stay clean, then you need help (different help than taking more drugs, as that isn't help. Its just a bridge to take you out of active addiction, not the solution).

And if you look to the future, you are going to be 1000x better being clean, than being on methadone. People taking that stuff for years and years don't even look human any longer. Pale skin, sunken eyes. Weight issues. Poor health. Of course, that shit is terrible for your health, and makes you lazy.

Surely better then stealing and clucking everyday I know it is for me but I am still using so you have a point their I usually get two bags of top quality in the morning or one bag of average then chill for a bit and go to Chemist late afternoon then I'm high all day anyway once I've the chemist the methadone adds to my high perfectly if I didn't have the methadone I would just be craving another bag now I crave another bag only a tiny but I will have another bag today or other days if I manage to get more of course I will but most importantly if don't manage to get more thanks to the methadone I won't be freaking out that I haven't got none in fact I won't care

 

[cowboycurtis]

@TheInvisibleStoner
Dose is variable, but certainly not irrelevant. A dose that's too high or too low can be worse than not doing methadone at all and is not conducive to a setting of recovery.

You're right though. The most important part is your intention/behavior/mindset going into it. No amount of methadone, or any other drug for that matter, will help you if you can't or won't begin to help yourself. On the same token though, some people need to be on maintenance indefinitely. If they continue to work a program and remain honest with themselves about why they're really on the methadone there's nothing wrong with lifetime maintenance. If you're dosing to get high or taking benzos on top of it then yeah, that's unhealthy physically, mentally, and spiritually. However if you are staying at an appropriate dose for your physical chemistry and remaining clean of other hard drugs, I think that's an amazing accomplishment and although being totally clean is probably ideal for most people, it might not be realistic for everyone. Everyone's body is different and there's no wrong approach to recovery.