What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[G_Chem]

Yeah MDA gives me no issues for dancing, even when I'm rocked on that shit, which is weird… I can take Sassy no problem, but her sister Molly will have me tipsy on the floor. Molly wants to talk more than dance most times, which is why, to me, MDMA is best taken at a house party where conversation is facilitated. LSD, 2C-B, Colour, Allylescaline, et al. are for going to clubs, raves & festivals (small to moderate doses). And K-holes are for the afterparty.


I think that's because Sasha insisted that they all taste it as a part of the experience. He wanted people to taste the compound in order to better know it, so to speak. I know Darrell Lemaire had machined his own single-punch rotary tablet press machine at some point, though. You know, Shulgin didn't actually make every one of those compounds in PiHKAL and TiHKAL. That was the story of course, and he certainly did synthesize some of the compounds, and dreamt up others, but he had quiet lab partners who couldn't take any credit for anything legally, so they kept all under Shulgin's name and his special agreement license with the Bureau of Narcotics and then the DEA which replaced that Bureau.

If the compound in question took a little bit of time, agitation, and surface area to dissolve in H₂O I might be more inclined to agree here. But that's not the case. Most MDMA hydrochloride will dissolve rapidly and readily in water with little to no agitation. Perhaps with pressed tablets, this might not be the case as much, but all the same. For me, I roll hardest on a nearly empty stomach and after having had a spoonful of baking soda in water or a few antacids or something else to make my pH high and increase bioavailability.


But dancing is almost literally "riding the music" when you're on LSD. Just give it a shot. Not talking about whilst tripping balls to the wall, just a nice one or two tabs kinda trip. It is magnífico

Lol so funny I’m complete opposite.. MDA will have me get lost in a conversation where next thing I know it’s been a couple hours and I missed all the good sets MDMA much more a dance drug. But they both are amazing for connecting with people in their own way. MDA also is hit or miss with dancing in that I might just melt to the ground.

-GC

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Well... I can imagine dancing wile your on X, but dancing on acid ? No, On acid I would just be sitting there listening to the music. Or "Riding the Music".

You would surely change your mind given right place, music and dose. If you love dancing on emphatogens you would almost certainly learn to love dancing on psychedelics.

Yeah MDA gives me no issues for dancing, even when I'm rocked on that shit, which is weird… I can take Sassy no problem, but her sister Molly will have me tipsy on the floor. Molly wants to talk more than dance most times, which is why, to me, MDMA is best taken at a house party where conversation is facilitated. LSD, 2C-B, Colour, Allylescaline, et al. are for going to clubs, raves & festivals (small to moderate doses). And K-holes are for the afterparty.


I think that's because Sasha insisted that they all taste it as a part of the experience. He wanted people to taste the compound in order to better know it, so to speak. I know Darrell Lemaire had machined his own single-punch rotary tablet press machine at some point, though. You know, Shulgin didn't actually make every one of those compounds in PiHKAL and TiHKAL. That was the story of course, and he certainly did synthesize some of the compounds, and dreamt up others, but he had quiet lab partners who couldn't take any credit for anything legally, so they kept all under Shulgin's name and his special agreement license with the Bureau of Narcotics and then the DEA which replaced that Bureau.

If the compound in question took a little bit of time, agitation, and surface area to dissolve in H₂O I might be more inclined to agree here. But that's not the case. Most MDMA hydrochloride will dissolve rapidly and readily in water with little to no agitation. Perhaps with pressed tablets, this might not be the case as much, but all the same. For me, I roll hardest on a nearly empty stomach and after having had a spoonful of baking soda in water or a few antacids or something else to make my pH high and increase bioavailability.

Ever tried MDMA with a bit of caffeine or amphetamine? Just a tiny bit is usually enough to make it dancey for me. But in fact so does combo with opiates or a bit booze. Ofc adding psychedelics changes experience totally unlike tiny dose of mentioned, sure not everyones cup of tea. I too find MDMA, especially dosed high a lot on the relaxing & melting & connecting but I ain’t a huge raver so that too is ofc personal preference.

As for Shulgin, yeah I know that. I still think using drug that’s already dissolved, even pure MDMA or equivalent in speed of dissolving in water can make a change, ofc not nearly as change of ROA but minutes can play a difference. As for pills, I won’t say I’m positive but almost that very hard presses compared to loose/chalky make some difference. I’ve noticed that very high dosed pills, usual in some parts of Europe tend to be very hard pills while “normal” about 120mg pills are usually not that hard. Tho if that’s intended or simply to be able to make 225mg pill about same size and weight (or at least not double) of one with 120mg of active stuff or there might be more to it. At some level again I won’t say I’m positive but again almost, you can bet that inactive ingredients in pill do make difference as they do with pharmaceuticals and make some people think some generic brand is stronger or better when in fact just absorbs at a bit different rate.

But what I was really aiming at with my previous statement is that MDMA of as low as 65% purity isn’t unknown on the market as xtals and less so in pills. Usually anything beyond 85% is considered very good stuff. Stuff that’s really in high 90% is more of a rarity than a common thing. Stated is correct for some periods and some places but I’m pretty sure stuff of exceptional purity still isn’t a norm in most places outside specific, not so big circles. With that in mind I assumed that purity of xtal can be low enough to really influence absorption.

I’ll conclude this by repeating that I’m yet to encounter mehDMA that can’t be purified enough to become fire stuff. I’ll admit that sometimes it seems that fire still can have a different flavour but that comes to fact that MDMA in a mix with other MDxx is not that rare either OR possibly even more common, MDxx is sold as MDMA. MDxx sometimes potentially being closer to it than MDA or MDEA etc. And to clarify that I don’t claim a bunch of MDMA is something close not real stuff but rare occasions I encountered mehDMA turned to fire with a bit of different flavour was usually the case. On occasion or two with xtals I had that confirmed, like once being a mix of MDMA and MDEA, and MDA is surely more common “cut”. I’m also open to that in unconfirmed MDxx maybe additional purification would remove “flavour” but usually 98 -99% is enough for any MDMA to be considered fire by everyone.

 

[user666]

...but usually 98 -99% is enough for any MDMA to be considered fire by everyone.

...unless the remaining 1% is Lofentanil.

 

[unodelacosa]

Ever tried MDMA with caffeine or amphetamine?

Sometimes MDMA is already mixed w/caffeine, just look at pill report websites. Caffeine potentiates MDMA but also adds to the neurotoxicity and cardiotoxicity, so I avoid combining the two if I can.

• Caffeine provokes adverse interactions with 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, ‘ecstasy’) and related psychostimulants: mechanisms and mediators
• Association of caffeine to MDMA does not increase antinociception but potentiates adverse effects of this recreational drug
• Caffeine promotes hyperthermia and serotonergic loss following co-administration of the substituted amphetamines, MDMA ("Ecstasy") and MDA ("Love")
• Neurochemical and Neurotoxic Effects of MDMA (Ecstasy) and Caffeine After Chronic Combined Administration in Mice

Amphetamine has a similar effect, and I don't like to mix amps with rolls anyway – the amp tends to take over and I feel like I wasted the roll. The times I've tried either though, they didn't affect my coordination much if at all. And mind you, I'm still able to dance when I'm rolling, I'm just not as smooth and I feel off-balance a bit, though again, not enough to make me stop dancing if I want to dance. Really it kinda comes down to how hard I'm rolling which really boils down to dosage for yours truly. YMMV of course.

…combo with opiates or a bit booze.

Yeah they don't do much for me. I mean, different strokes & all that, but I'm not a big fan of drinking or recreational opiates, just a personal preference. Booze gives me headaches. Opiates constipate me. To modify MDMA's effects, I'd rather go w/GHB, PCP, or a key bump of K if a better disso isn't nearby.

I too find MDMA, especially dosed high a lot on the relaxing & melting & connecting but I ain’t a huge raver so that too is ofc personal preference.

I don't think you have to be a raver to experience that. But yeah MDMA's effects can seem paradoxical at times.

I still think using drug that’s already dissolved, even pure MDMA or equivalent in speed of dissolving in water can make a change, ofc not nearly as change of ROA but minutes can play a difference.

I agree that "minutes can play a difference". Certainly it can't hurt to dissolve your drug before ingestion. I know ppl who chew up their pills and claim it hits faster, but as pointed out: can't rule out placebo yet.

very hard presses compared to loose/chalky make some difference. I’ve noticed that very high dosed pills, usual in some parts of Europe tend to be very hard pills while “normal” about 120mg pills are usually not that hard…

It's easier to obtain micro-crystalline cellulose (MCC) in EU than it is in the US. MCC as a bonding agent + stearic acid as a lubricant + active ingredient + milling → single punch rotary tablet press = excellent tablets. So US clandestine chemists often resort to other, inferior bonding agents with lower compression ratios of inactive-to-active ingredients. This results in large, crumbly pills and the emergence of so-called "double-stack" and "triple-stack" pressies during the late 90s / early 2000s.

inactive ingredients in pill do make difference as they do with pharmaceuticals and make some people think some generic brand is stronger or better when in fact just absorbs at a bit different rate.

In theory, regulators are supposed to catch discrepancies between a pharmaceutical drug product and its generics. They specifically look at this portion of it as it's often different from the original product in an effort to shave a few more cents off of each dose. In reality, I'm sure this process is far from perfect and probably has an appreciable fault tolerance.

MDMA of as low as 65% purity isn’t unknown on the market as xtals and less so in pills. Usually anything beyond 85% is considered very good stuff. Stuff that’s really in high 90% is more of a rarity than a common thing.
Stated is correct for some periods and some places but I’m pretty sure stuff of exceptional purity still isn’t a norm in most places outside specific, not so big circles. With that in mind I assumed that purity of xtal can be low enough to really influence absorption.

I think you're making a lot of assumptions here.

MDxx sometimes potentially being closer to it than MDA or MDEA etc.

Idk about this statement.

On occasion or two with xtals I had that confirmed, like once being a mix of MDMA and MDEA, and MDA is surely more common “cut”.

Again, this is a lot of speculation. I doubt anyone thinks of—or uses—MDA as a "cut".

 

[unodelacosa]

Here's a story in The Gothamist about a 23-year-old who overdosed at a nightclub in Brooklyn two years ago. What's notable is that she dissolved her drugs into a water bottle and consumed it that way. The story reminded me of this discussion.

Sad story in the middle of a bunch of night club drama ☞ https://gothamist.com/news/a-23-year-old-odd-at-the-brooklyn-mirage-in-2021-it-wasnt-reported-to-regulators

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I think you're making a lot of assumptions here.

I’m just stating my experience and experience of people I know who tested quite a few batches of crystal and pills. As for MDA I personally never saw it as crystal with MDMA but there were a few pills that were mix of two. I did have crystal that was mix of MDMA and MDEA, don’t think that was any kind of mistake but someones practice of mixing up things a bit to refresh experience for people.

 

[unodelacosa]

I’m just stating my experience and experience of people I know who tested quite a few batches of crystal and pills. As for MDA I personally never saw it as crystal with MDMA but there were a few pills that were mix of two. I did have crystal that was mix of MDMA and MDEA, don’t think that was any kind of mistake but someones practice of mixing up things a bit to refresh experience for people.

Yeah although it's speculative. Another possibility is that this person had access to, say, a mixture of nitromethane and nitroethane, but didn't want to risk fractional vacuum distilling them to separate, so they aminated their ketone with it like a boss all the same. No, you're probably right.

Many moons ago (20+ yrs) I made a batch of MDE, or MDEA if you prefer (I cringe at the "DEA" portion of that acronym), simply bc I had a simple in situ method for producing ethylamine from nitroethane subbed in for nitromethane, and why not? It's an interesting compound. Back then I was younger and immature and I just thought that MDE was a dicktease compared to MDMA. Years later, looking back and considering the harsh hangovers I get from MDMA now… I probably didn't fully appreciate MDE for what it is. Sometimes you don't want the experience to be but so intense, ya know?

MDMA + MDA together really kick my ass. That's going HAAM

 

[vash445]

You would surely change your mind given right place, music and dose. If you love dancing on emphatogens you would almost certainly learn to love dancing on psychedelics.

Ever tried MDMA with a bit of caffeine or amphetamine? Just a tiny bit is usually enough to make it dancey for me. But in fact so does combo with opiates or a bit booze. Ofc adding psychedelics changes experience totally unlike tiny dose of mentioned, sure not everyones cup of tea. I too find MDMA, especially dosed high a lot on the relaxing & melting & connecting but I ain’t a huge raver so that too is ofc personal preference.

As for Shulgin, yeah I know that. I still think using drug that’s already dissolved, even pure MDMA or equivalent in speed of dissolving in water can make a change, ofc not nearly as change of ROA but minutes can play a difference. As for pills, I won’t say I’m positive but almost that very hard presses compared to loose/chalky make some difference. I’ve noticed that very high dosed pills, usual in some parts of Europe tend to be very hard pills while “normal” about 120mg pills are usually not that hard. Tho if that’s intended or simply to be able to make 225mg pill about same size and weight (or at least not double) of one with 120mg of active stuff or there might be more to it. At some level again I won’t say I’m positive but again almost, you can bet that inactive ingredients in pill do make difference as they do with pharmaceuticals and make some people think some generic brand is stronger or better when in fact just absorbs at a bit different rate.

But what I was really aiming at with my previous statement is that MDMA of as low as 65% purity isn’t unknown on the market as xtals and less so in pills. Usually anything beyond 85% is considered very good stuff. Stuff that’s really in high 90% is more of a rarity than a common thing. Stated is correct for some periods and some places but I’m pretty sure stuff of exceptional purity still isn’t a norm in most places outside specific, not so big circles. With that in mind I assumed that purity of xtal can be low enough to really influence absorption.

I’ll conclude this by repeating that I’m yet to encounter mehDMA that can’t be purified enough to become fire stuff. I’ll admit that sometimes it seems that fire still can have a different flavour but that comes to fact that MDMA in a mix with other MDxx is not that rare either OR possibly even more common, MDxx is sold as MDMA. MDxx sometimes potentially being closer to it than MDA or MDEA etc. And to clarify that I don’t claim a bunch of MDMA is something close not real stuff but rare occasions I encountered mehDMA turned to fire with a bit of different flavour was usually the case. On occasion or two with xtals I had that confirmed, like once being a mix of MDMA and MDEA, and MDA is surely more common “cut”. I’m also open to that in unconfirmed MDxx maybe additional purification would remove “flavour” but usually 98 -99% is enough for any MDMA to be considered fire by everyone.

I’ll conclude this by repeating that I’m yet to encounter mehDMA that can’t be purified enough to become fire stuff

Well me personally. I had a meh/okish batch...

Recrystalized from dh20 2-3 times . clear and thin as fragile as glass this mdma looked. It became even more MEH then before.

What solvent were you Recrystalizing from

 

[vash445]

I’m just stating my experience and experience of people I know who tested quite a few batches of crystal and pills. As for MDA I personally never saw it as crystal with MDMA but there were a few pills that were mix of two. I did have crystal that was mix of MDMA and MDEA, don’t think that was any kind of mistake but someones practice of mixing up things a bit to refresh experience for people.

Lab test WITHOUT NMR is pointless..

Gm/ms, FTIR AND RAMEN and paperspray mass spec is missing something.. all of those can't tell the difference between fxe and can ket a meo analog of fxe