What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[moonyham]

I

It's irrelevant anyway, since second-hand reports are unreliable, but you gave her just 60mg of this MDMA. You say she didn't experience what you think she should have experienced, and you concluded there must be a problem and it must be 'today's MDMA'.

You decided this from one dose of one batch: the world's MDMA is defective now.

I've seen the same leap taken repeatedly, and it is an incredibly flawed path. You cannot draw any conclusion from an assumption.

I ended up taking multiple doses over a few weeks. The effects barely changed even going to 150mg. And the gf is tiny. 60mg for her is definitely 100mg+ to the average adult.

And I then bought some again from a different guy. Different stuff, looks a lot lighter. Same bullshit meh experience.

I talk to friends, they tell me of the same shit.

But yes, just my one experience. Just the one experience of many thousands of users across many years on the site. Got it.

Your guys keep taking your bullshit 'mdma'. Go hard.

 

[Kaden_Nite]

I ended up taking multiple doses over a few weeks. The effects barely changed even going to 150mg.

Yes, I read your posts. You decided either straight after or even during your first dose in 10 years, that the MDMA is now riddled with issues.

And I then bought some again from a different guy. Different stuff, looks a lot lighter. Same bullshit meh experience

Uh-huh..

Sounds like you're the common denominator then.

 

[unodelacosa]

Sorry do you think you are enlightened by having no confidence in anything?

Yes, until that thing is confirmed through a proven and reliable system, such as, oh I don't know, modern, peer-reviewed science. And even then a touch of skepticism is a good thing.

You keep going on about data yet completely dismiss the only data rolling in, peoples experiences.

I want to be clear here, and also mention @indigoaura because you both seem to be taking it personally, and it's not my intention to hurt anyone's feelings on this subject or have them think that I'm casually dismissing all the time and effort—and money on the dime of @indigoaura, something that again I'd like to express gratitude, and in all humility thank you, again IA, you rock for that—and but all that collective energy that has gone into this epic discussion thread, all the trip reports, all the reflections and deep ponderings. To me, this data has value that goes beyond just answering the question at hand here in the way it's inspired and shaped thoughts, feelings, and possibly behaviors in the future. However—and I think you'll agree with me here, @indigoaura in light of the reality that International Energy Control is not a reliable data source—if we want real answers with proof of the cause, we need more than just these anecdotes to finish connecting the proverbial dots.

And no, in my break from mdma/drugs all I did was smoke a bit of weed. Great investigatory skills, Watson.

This is a snarky, bitch-ass thing to say, you know that? Why don't you try dropping the shitty attitude before you reply next time? The discussion would be a lot more pleasant. No one digs these kinda vibes and it brings out harsh responses from yours truly and it bothers me.

I know you understand. Cheers.

 

[unodelacosa]

Then around 2015, I acquired some of that so called 'champagne' crystal and was looking forward to it immensely.

You know, I just noticed this and thought about it… in the U.S. around 2015, the so-called “champagne MDMA” turned out to in fact be methylone. While I'm sure that's not always the case, the market had a lot of fake MDMA in it around that time. Less than a couple years later, the real deal Holyfield MDMA was back around again. Have you not tried any MDMA in the last seven years then?

 

[psy997]

This is a snarky, bitch-ass thing to say, you know that? Why don't you try dropping the shitty attitude before you reply next time? The discussion would be a lot more pleasant. No one digs these kinda vibes and it brings out harsh responses from yours truly and it bothers me.

I know you understand. Cheers.

I don't personally take offense at your manner of contribution any longer, but in all seriousness, you do not make it easy for others to stay calm and collected in discussion with you. There are many times in this thread that you could have altered your communication to make things more pleasant.

 

[Frazzled1990]

I personally don't see the point in having personal squabbles over the effectiveness of drugs. There are so many factors at play that will alter the experiences for each individual. Ultimately the only thing that matters is that the person using said drug gets personal enjoyment out of the experience, regardless of how it effects them.

 

[unodelacosa]

And here we go. Everyone's a critic I guess.

I don't personally take offense at your manner of contribution any longer,

Well I certainly hope not. It's not meant to be personal and taking offense is pointless here. But "any longer"? So at one point I was offending you, too? Jesus Christ. I'm glad you stopped taking offense, but what changed?

but in all seriousness,

“In all seriousness”? So was your previous statement about taking offense a joke then? Something tells me you were not joking.

you do not make it easy for others to stay calm and collected in discussion with you. There are many times in this thread that you could have altered your communication to make things more pleasant.

Ok I appreciate your feedback, even if it's an unsolicited public call out where if you really wanted to discuss this off-topic subject and personal matter, you could've messaged me. Regardless, I've been reflecting on this. I want to accept your logic, but there's a part of me that doesn't see it the way you do.
Let me remind you and quote what was said to me:

‘You are honestly like a really bad defense attorney. Slinging shit hoping something will stick. Who do you work for, the Chinese? The Mexican cartels? Your reply is so unbelievably naive it comes across like a shill from the makers of this bullshit "mdma".’

And this was said in all earnest AFAIK though it's possible I'm being deftly trolled by people who are very dedicated and committed to their characters… When I tell you I hold back ~95% of the actual vitriol I would like to spit at these comments, I am not bluffing or exaggerating. But I guess I'm probably a little too sensitive on the topic of disrespect at times. I shouldn't care. This person doesn't know me, and I don't know this person. I don't really care, but it's probably a proverbial chip on my shoulder. I guess it just irks me to spend time and effort crafting and editing info-filled responses on threads such as this for months now, ongoing, and participating avidly in the discussion only to then have some joker come in and accuse me of shilling for the cartels and the Chinese just because I want people to avoid jumping to conclusions in a foolish and well known logic failure. [EDIT: and yes I realize they've been on this site for a decade, and frankly I was disappointed at their butt-hurt reply to me).

So if I occasionally fire back, don't be too surprised and try to understand. People shouldn't dish out what they can't take. Lastly, regarding your accusation that I make the thread less pleasant…

1. I can't please everyone and I'm not gonna try
2. my ratio of reaction score to posts speaks for itself – if I didn't add value to the site, I would not have these numbers, so I dare say not everyone finds my posts so unpleasant
3. moreover, I actually take the time to respond, rewrite, edit, highlight/embolden my replies and genuinely attempt to post useful knowledge
4. and while I'm not saying I'm some altruist here, I take the time to do these things to help the community of recreational drug users worldwide, no other reason

I don't expect any gratitude for my efforts, but I'd also like it if random du…[EDIT: sorry, anger management moment, my bad]

 

[indigoaura]

@unodelacosa Like I said earlier, I appreciate your chemistry posts and your contributions. You have a lot of valuable knowledge. I have no interest in arguing or bickering, but just trying to point out that sometimes your writing style/tone comes across in such a way that shuts people down. There have been a lot of back and forth arguments that have diminished the overall vibe of this thread that I think were unnecessary. It is a bummer, man. I say this respectfully.

I 100% recognize that anecdotes and case studies cannot move the conversation into the realm of proven science. I also, unfortunately and sadly, recognize that none of us are equipped (financially, professionally, or otherwise) to conduct the level of research needed to actually establish what is going on here conclusively. There are very few labs that even have a license to accept drugs like MDMA for research studies.

That is not to say that I do not see the value of the conversation though, because we are raising awareness and gathering information. We can read published studies and connect the dots. We can share new research that we find.

When someone shares their experience and their opinion based on their own experience, I am appreciative that they are coming to the thread and contributing. People can form their own opinions based on their observations, that is natural. No, it is not peer reviewed science, but I don't think anyone is claiming that it is. You can actually form a hypothesis BEFORE the data collection occurs, based on observation or other previously published research. You can't PROVE that hypothesis without conducting research and having that research peer reviewed, but you can develop your research questions and hypotheses.

So, when someone shares their experience and their resulting opinion, I think that is okay. I realize you want to emphasize that their opinion is not peer reviewed science, but isn't that obvious? Isn't it more important that people feel welcome and comfortable sharing within the thread?

 

[indigoaura]

I think the more likely candidate is adulteration – something you had previously ruled out based on bad intel from IEC.

I hope it is clear from my initial summary posts in this thread that adulteration was not something that was ever ruled out. I have long suspected and advocated that the labs were missing something. I thought it was more likely they were missing a synthesis byproduct of some type that was interfering.

Now, what I did previously assume was that the labs were at least capable of differentiating well known compounds from each other, such as MDA vs. MDMA. However, that appears to now be in question, which does throw everything out the window somewhat.

 

[indigoaura]

But I guess I'm probably a little too sensitive on the topic of disrespect at times. I shouldn't care. This person doesn't know me, and I don't know this person. I don't really care, but it's probably a proverbial chip on my shoulder. I guess it just irks me to spend time and effort crafting and editing info-filled responses on threads such as this for months now, ongoing, and participating avidly in the discussion only to then have some joker come in and accuse me of shilling for the cartels and the Chinese just because I want people to avoid jumping to conclusions in a foolish and well known logic failure.

The reality is that voice and tone can be very difficult to convey through written text. This happens even amongst family who know each other who are communicating via text messaging instead of regular conversation, and in that scenario (at the very least) the people involved know what the real voices of the other people sound like.

We all use words to try to convey a concept, but our intent does not always perfectly align with what we create. If you have ever taken the time to analyze and unpack the great literary works, you will discover that even the most advanced literary scholars do not agree with each other on how to interpret words and meaning. Author's intent is often left to the imagination.

Sorry to get a bit heady and off topic here, but...

You are able to understand and grasp that you personally put a lot of time and effort into the thread, and the words of others can hurt you. Yet, you seem unable to understand that the reverse is also true, and that people are reading your words and sometimes finding them hurtful or dismissive. You excuse your own reactions to others, because you know they come from a place of feeling hurt. Yet, @moonyham also was writing from a place of feeling dismissed and hurt by you.

As another example, it did not feel very good to me to come back after a long absence and share an article I was excited about (the MAPS synthesis) and then have my choice of the word "recipe" policed/nitpicked, when that was never the point of my post or even a relevant aspect of what I was trying to convey. Why? To what end?

I can obviously see the time you put into your posts, and the volume of contribution you have made. But, from the outside looking in, I can also see a "tit for tat" post/response pattern that has developed. It just feels unnecessarily stressful.

Can we establish some guidelines of conduct, perhaps, to help guide the thread in the principles of PLUR?

 

[unodelacosa]

Can we establish some guidelines of conduct, perhaps, to help guide the thread in the principles of PLUR?

This is frustrating, holy shit. WhyTF is everyone coming down on me like it’s all my fault and no one else said or did anything wrong, rude, uncalled for, instigating, fucked up, or out of line? Like I’m solely to blame while everyone else was just being a perfect fucking saint, right?

I’m an oldschool raver well versed in PLUR, but that doesn’t mean I’m gonna let someone talk cash money shit to me while I try to pretend I respect their ridiculous ideas, lack of understanding, and shit-poor attitude. Take it up with the person accusing others of shilling and having nefarious, ulterior motives. Those who want respect, give respect.

That is not to say that I do not see the value of the conversation though, because we are raising awareness and gathering information. We can read published studies and connect the dots. We can share new research that we find

I‘ve already said all of this, you know, thanked you for your time, effort, and money spent on this quest and have praised the awareness raising aspects as well. I’m not this heartless fucking monster, nor some callous troll, another insult your friend threw at me, and yet I’m seen as the hostile uncivilized one by those who’ve responded so far, @Kaden_Nite notwithstanding and whose replies seriously made me day, b/c: 1. “brevity is the sole of wit”, and 2. GODDAMN was that ever a complete shutdown. Kudos again, and thanks for getting it, @Kaden_Nite.

I don’t see where I said anything to warrant baseless accusations of shilling for transnational criminal organizations and being naive to MDMA. And granted these are just words, but I don’t like the attitude as much as I dislike the misinformation spread. Moreover, it’s not a matter of us having differing opinions; something I’ve always been fine with is agreeing to disagree. Rather, it’s the judge-y attitude, cocksure manner of absolute certainty they already know an answer which, as you’ve pointed out, @indigoaura, cannot yet be known, coupled with fucked-up, unnecessary shit-talking.

And it’s not so much that my feelings are hurt by someone like this, who’s either having some weird emotional shit in their lives and their anger is actually misplaced, or just isn’t someone worth worrying about when they get bent out of shape. It’s actually more upsetting to me when someone whose opinion and attitude I respect, such as yourself, defends someone who baselessly attacked my character and slandered me for pointing out the flaws in their logic.

 

[indigoaura]

This is frustrating, holy shit. WhyTF is everyone coming down on me like it’s all my fault and no one else said or did anything wrong, rude, uncalled for, instigating, fucked up, or out of line? Like I’m solely to blame while everyone else was just being a perfect fucking saint, right?

I’m an oldschool raver well versed in PLUR, but that doesn’t mean I’m gonna let someone talk cash money shit to me while I try to pretend I respect their ridiculous ideas, lack of understanding, and shit-poor attitude. Take it up with the person accusing others of shilling and having nefarious, ulterior motives. Those who want respect, give respect.


I‘ve already said all of this, you know, thanked you for your time, effort, and money spent on this quest and have praised the awareness raising aspects as well. I’m not this heartless fucking monster, nor some callous troll, another insult your friend threw at me, and yet I’m seen as the hostile uncivilized one by those who’ve responded so far, @Kaden_Nite notwithstanding and whose replies seriously made me day, b/c: 1. “brevity is the sole of wit”, and 2. GODDAMN was that ever a complete shutdown. Kudos again, and thanks for getting it, @Kaden_Nite.

I don’t see where I said anything to warrant baseless accusations of shilling for transnational criminal organizations and being naive to MDMA. And granted these are just words, but I don’t like the attitude as much as I dislike the misinformation spread. Moreover, it’s not a matter of us having differing opinions; something I’ve always been fine with is agreeing to disagree. Rather, it’s the judge-y attitude, cocksure manner of absolute certainty they already know an answer which, as you’ve pointed out, @indigoaura, cannot yet be known, coupled with fucked-up, unnecessary shit-talking.

And it’s not so much that my feelings are hurt by someone like this, who’s either having some weird emotional shit in their lives and their anger is actually misplaced, or just isn’t someone worth worrying about when they get bent out of shape. It’s actually more upsetting to me when someone whose opinion and attitude I respect, such as yourself, defends someone who baselessly attacked my character and slandered me for pointing out the flaws in their logic.

I am not implying that the guidelines would only be for you. I am talking about the whole thread. Over the last six years, I have frequently seen the thread slide into pointless back and forth between people that detracts from the primary objectives of the thread and distracts from the purpose. In my opinion, things like name calling have no place here. Telling people to fuck off has no place here. I see no reason why the thread cannot be one of professionalism and respect from everyone.

I can tell that you are taking these comments personally and feeling attacked. I am sorry to hear that. My intent is not to attack anyone. But, like you, I am not going to back down from stating my thoughts simply because someone else in a forum has a different viewpoint.

I did not see anything wrong with the original post from @moonyham. He shared a personal opinion based on a personal experience. I felt like your response came down hard and shut him down. Instead of being defensive about that, if you genuinely have any respect for me in this thread, maybe just pause for a second and try to hear what is being said. I have not called you any names or said you were a monster or anything of the kind. All I said was that tone can come across differently from intent, and sometimes the tone of your posts seems to shut people down, (or triggers a debate that may not have otherwise occurred). Do with that information what you will, or do nothing.

But I believe the overall quality of the thread would improve if EVERYONE could refrain from name calling and personal attacks. Share links. Share experiences. Share opinions. We are all here for similar reasons. Keep the conversation moving forward.

Apologies if I am coming across in an accusatory fashion. Part of my real life profession involves linguistics and the analysis of tone in writing, so it is hard to not notice these pointless waves of conflict as they ripple through the thread.

 

[moonyham]

Hey @moonyham – what are your thoughts on this comment? Is @Frazzled1990 now working for the Yakuza, the Triads, and the MehDMA Mafia now too, or what? HAHAHAHAHA, you're one funny motherfucker @moonyham. Better watch out or the North Koreans will get you force you to take MehDMA; I should know; I work for them, MWAHAHAHA! It's all part of my evil scheme! [thunder cracks; lightning strikes; dramatic music plays] Shoulda called yourself “hammyham”, @moonyham with all this dramatic hamming it up you like to do. I dig that conspiracy, though. Lol, like that's what I do with my time is shill bad MDMA on motherfucking Bluelight, hahahahahahaha. I like how you think that someone would really bother to do that. That is fucking HILARIOUS. You're a gem. Thank you for the good laugh. I needed that.

Yeesh.

Maybe look in the mirror a little bit. To see someone get this upset over that comment.. Hmm. Yeah, totally normal reaction buddy. Really ticking all the boxes of a guilty man.

You are basically just here to say to anyone proposing any theories "YEAH BUT YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT". Your contribution to this thread would really be no different if you went back and edited all your comments to that statement.

The whole town is talking about the man in the red shirt who set the forest on fire. The shop keeper is a witness to selling him matches. There were hikers who saw him. There was a forest ranger who caught him with burns on his fingers. His girlfriend confirms he's a pyromaniac.

But old wise skeptical uno says 'BUT YOU CAN'T PROVE IT' and smugly folds his arms. Case closed.

 

[unodelacosa]

Yeesh.

Maybe look in the mirror a little bit. To see someone get this upset over that comment.. Hmm. Yeah, totally normal reaction buddy. Really ticking all the boxes of a guilty man.

You are basically just here to say to anyone proposing any theories "YEAH BUT YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT". Your contribution to this thread would really be no different if you went back and edited all your comments to that statement.

The whole town is talking about the man in the red shirt who set the forest on fire. The shop keeper is a witness to selling him matches. There were hikers who saw him. There was a forest ranger who caught him with burns on his fingers. His girlfriend confirms he's a pyromaniac.

But old wise skeptical uno says 'BUT YOU CAN'T PROVE IT' and smugly folds his arms. Case closed.

I like how you have no response to @Kaden_Nite … real quiet on that tip, huh champ?

See? There’s nothing substantial to your claim much like there’s nothing substantial to the delusional claim “THEY messed with the MDMA”. ☜(See how I put that back on topic?)

Care to comment on that topic, or just more angry talk and troll-ish attempts to provoke emotional responses from me?

To see someone get this upset over that comment..

What do you mean? You haven’t seen me at all, so I find this allegorical speech to be revealing. You’re projecting shit I never said or did onto me, and moreover I’m not upset. Just disappointed and a little butt hurt but we’ll both be ok. Times are tough all over, Pony Boy. Haha, sorry, I’m coming down from some ALD-52 and I don’t want to take this seriously but you seem genuinely upset.

Frankly all of this right here is a bad look for everyone involved, so let’s turn this around for each other… And as I sit here reflecting, I realize I do feel badly I’ve drawn this sort of anger and response out of you. … Perhaps I should be kinder when speaking (or writing) to others, and I realize I have a tendency to come down hard on people in debates. I’m aiming toward catharsis in letting my previous words stand, but no one deserves to feel attacked on here. I realize I could’ve just feigned ignorance a while back and stopped trying to teach the Internet the same shit over and over, ad infinitum.

It’s one love, baby. I can do this all day, but it’s nice afuera and I propose we stop this bitch-ass personal squabbling. Between Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the Johnny Depp / Amber Heard trial, I’d say the globe already has its fill of this drivel. Ok, well so I’m going to attempt to say something positive to counterbalance some of the criticisms I’ve leveled… your username makes me smile; I genuinely like the surname “Moonyham” @moonyham … it reminds me of when I was growing up, my dad would take us out to Denny’s and order this breakfast they have called “Moons Over My Hammy” which is a bad pun for “moon over Miami” and this always embarrassed my brother for some reason and I never understood, I mean it’s not like Dad wrote that corny pun… Anyway if you know the chains I’m referencing here, Denny’s, IHOP, Waffle House, Shoney’s – have a favorite?

Sorry I know that isn’t much, but please consider it an olive branch.

EDIT: maybe good call; perhaps I am getting too emotionally wrapped up. Idk, I lost someone close to me recently, and I’m probably unduly lashing out at people. I’m not dealing with the five grieving states very well, I guess, and I’m sorry. I will do better. I’m angry and hurt over it, but perhaps it’s spilling over, and no one deserves that. I’m trying to work my way over to acceptance, but goddamn … it’s not easy, as you may know if you’ve ever lost someone close to you.

Anyway I’d like to think I’m not doing this, but judging by reactions, I should probably just shut the fuck up b/c, as you pointed out: my contribution to this thread would really be no different if I went back and edited all my comments to the reductionist “YEAH BUT YOU CAN’T PROVE THAT”.

That was a very unfair and unkind thing to say, but I suppose you felt I deserved it, so I hope it did something for you that was important and maybe we can move on now?

 

[AutoTripper]

I’m coming down from some ALD-52

Don't see people saying this commonly, but I hope you enjoyed it much as I did.

Magical mystical stuff IME as far as Lysergamides go.

And too right man. Don't take things too seriously is best, hard at times as we all feel, incl feeling patronised, belittled, wrongly accused, or plain misunderstood in cases

You and I had a couple right broilers ourselves lol.

My younger arrogant prick self to blame there stirring that pot.

It stressed us both out. But how quick did we maturely sort it out, under bridge.

I can't see us ever going there again, simply maintaining mature respectful discussion.

I know you are a decent clean man, lots knowledge and passion, well meaning always.

I know you get frustrated too.

It's a stupidly stressful time atm. Things, people are tense, and touchy.


Sorry for you losing close friend/relative too man.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Have you not tried any MDMA in the last seven years then?

Fuckin shitloads mate. Most of it shite, with a few notable exceptions which I have banged on about incessantly...

 

[unodelacosa]

I am not implying that the guidelines would only be for you.

Obviously. You didn’t think I thought you were implying that, did you?

I am talking about the whole thread. Over the last six years, I have frequently seen the thread slide into pointless back and forth between people that detracts from the primary objectives of the thread and distracts from the purpose. In my opinion, things like name calling have no place here. Telling people to fuck off has no place here. I see no reason why the thread cannot be one of professionalism and respect from everyone.

Wait, what? Who said “fuck off”? I missed that part. What’re you talking about? I can’t find that utterance in this conversation when I search for it. And I don’t think or seem to recall any significant name-calling either. But to your point, I’m letting ego get in the way. I don’t need to do this, what should I care?

I can tell that you are taking these comments personally and feeling attacked.

Well the comments being thrown at me are in fact personal and not of a friendly nature let’s just say. But if everyone else says I’m being a dick, I guess I’m being a dick.

I am sorry to hear that.

I appreciate your sympathy, but I assure you I’m not as upset as you seem to think I am. Just mildly frustrated and disappointed. Guess I should check my expectations.

My intent is not to attack anyone.

Uh oh, this should be good… I get the feeling you’re about to lay all of the blame on me for this current petty squabble, even though I think it’s pretty obvious who’s trying to antagonize whom. Just look for the ALLCAPS statements. I’m not the one flipping out…

But, like you, I am not going to back down from stating my thoughts simply because someone else in a forum has a different viewpoint.

And yet… is this not what you’re buttering me up to do? “Back down from stating my thoughts because someone else in a forum has a different viewpoint”?

I did not see anything wrong with the original post from @moonyham. He shared a personal opinion based on a personal experience.

No? Not seeing any flawed logic? People can have opinions and anecdotes, and you’re right, they stated an opinion. And I happen to have an opinion of that opinion, and I’m just sharing my observations as well.

"who might aswell just be afflicted by permatolerance or aging brains."

Na man, I made a post here a while ago about my gf, a virgin to mdma, only smoked weed twice in her life. She had a meh experience, as did I. Our pupils didn't fully dilate and she fell asleep 2-3hrs after consumption, something that should not be possible on real mdma. It tested positive for mdma on a regent test.

As I and others have pointed out, there’s so much flawed logic here it’s astounding.

I didn't even know about mehdma when I took it, after around a 10 year break from party drugs. So I didn't go into it and psyche myself out or something.

Everything about my experience lines up with others though, which to me, given I didn't know shit about the topic, says that it isn't a brain aging situation or perma tolerance. It's the drug. They've fucked with it.

See I guess it’s that last line that gets to me. “They’re fucked with it.” Have you ever dealt with somebody going through drug-induced psychosis, like someone who it turns out doesn’t handle stimulants so well and begins seeing the ITF (Invisible Task Force) everywhere? I have had some nightmarish experiences involving hours of trying to help someone through a schizotypal personality disorder episode. I’ve seen it get ugly too. “They’ve fucked with it” and the bold confidence with which this is proclaimed reminds me of these times … But you’re right: what right have I to come down on someone for holding an opinion, no matter what I think of its inner logic?

I felt like your response came down hard and shut him down.

I guess you’re right. @moonyham I owe you an apology. I’m sorry; I hope you accept my sincere apology. I overreacted and set off a chain of events for which I will take the blame.

Instead of being defensive about that, if you genuinely have any respect for me in this thread, maybe just pause for a second and try to hear what is being said.

Done and done. Thank you for the mediation, kind words, and levelheadedness (I’m 95% sure that’s a word).

I too have asked the same thing, btw, that others actually read what I’m posting instead of putting words in my mouth, and then think about what I’ve written.

All I said was that tone can come across differently from intent, and sometimes the tone of your posts seems to shut people down, (or triggers a debate that may not have otherwise occurred). Do with that information what you will, or do nothing.

You know, I’ve seen you get irked on this thread in the past when people would continuously post the wrong data and you’d be chiding them and insisting that the discussion is meant to reduced its scope to those MDMA samples that had already been sent in to IEC or similar for testing and had come back as containing nothing but MDMA. I’ve seen it throughout this post, people reminding others of how they need to read the thread before they wind up posting the same goddamn flawed arguments over and over. I guess I lost my patience for a moment there and let it come out in the form of sarcasm; my guess is the “tone conveyed” was set when I sarcastically /rhetorically asked if they knew that this opinion didn’t prove anything before pointing out the logic fallacy that’s been around since at least the times of the ancient Greeks.

But I believe the overall quality of the thread would improve if EVERYONE could refrain from name calling and personal attacks. Share links. Share experiences. Share opinions. We are all here for similar reasons. Keep the conversation moving forward.

I guess I get caught up in seeking the truth and I sometimes forget to consider the emotional states of others, maybe or probably or something on account of me being a bit “spectrum-y” if you will. I don’t carry malice in my heart though, and I do care about the feelings of others. You know, I’m just a kind of person who is better at things like mathematics, playing the piano, writing code, and creating meaningful visualizations for people from data objects… better at that than I am guessing how tone conveyance might be lost on an Internet forum.

Apologies if I am coming across in an accusatory fashion. Part of my real life profession involves linguistics and the analysis of tone in writing, so it is hard to not notice these pointless waves of conflict as they ripple through the thread.

That’s funny, bc I’m a little obsessed with linguistics, personally. Like I can seriously nerd out on some Noam Chomsky and I can endlessly rattle off etymologies I find fascinating. Many years ago I had a full academic scholarship to an arts school on the U.S. east coast. Despite being given advice not to do so, I stupidly majored in Music Composition before becoming disillusioned to the formal academic study of music (though it was fun to study jazz, having been trained classically from the time I was 6), and I changed my major to business administration and then again to a dual major in computer science and biochemistry (so I had something absurd like ~162 credit hours by the time I graduated). I don’t remember my point now… oh yeah, I often wonder what would’ve happened if I majored in linguistics instead, but someone told me I couldn’t do anything with a linguistics degree but teach, and thus stuck with me, however, at the time I saw no reason not to major in music comp despite it being an even worse choice for a major than linguistics…

I’m rambling. This has been tiring and the ALD-52 is worn off from my system. Crashing imminently. Peace, love, unity, and respect to all you guys. Sorry I’m a dick and a sperglord. One love.

 

[psy997]

unodelacosa,

I am not malevolently criticizing. I am giving what is intended to be helpful feedback.

As to why you are getting it and no-one else is, in this moment... It is because I respect you enough to believe you have the capacity to hear what I am saying, eg. you are worth the time of pointing at what I see as an unnecessary behavior pattern.

I 100% understand the frustration you must feel receiving not only criticism and feedback here, but presumptive and harsh accusations, given all of the time, energy, and information you have shared in this thread. I would feel the same way, I am sorry that you're going through it here, and it is for that reason that I shared what I did. I truly believe you could avoid 99% of the vitriol you receive in this thread if you tempered the tone of your responses, and took a more distanced perspective on the personal attacks and disrespect that you do receive.

 

[unodelacosa]

I do have to get this part off my chest: it did get on my nerves being called a shill for fake MDMA after I spent—without getting into too many details—over six years in U.S. Federal prison specifically for manufacturing very pure MDMA, MDA, MDE and a variety of related phenethylamines near the turn of last century in a clandestine lab I owned and operated alone. I had three charges but agreed to plea guilty (to save the court the expense of a jury trial I would surely lose but it’s costly to the govt.) to just the MDMA in exchange for dropping the other charges for manufacture of MDA and methamphetamine This was not an easy thing to accomplish – setting up and running the lab successfully for a few years—nor was it easy taking that sentence over the head when I was in my very young 20s. But I kept my mouth shut, had zero codefendants, did my time, and went home.

So yeah, I guess I do feel disrespected. It’s like telling a wounded war veteran and former U.S. Marine with honorable discharge not just that they don’t love their country, but that they don’t even love their fellow Marines and would quickly sell them out on some “Simper Bye” type shit. Zero regards to how this might affect me, everything is justifiable because of a perceived slight that was never intended in the first place. I’m willing to accept my blame in this if others are willing to concede that I’m not alone in guilt on this. Everyone wants me to be the one who de-escalates, yet it’s fine for others to talk cash money shit to my face on here, and no one says jack shit about it.

I’m grateful to the friends I’ve made on here who have showed some support and love, but I wish someone had my back, bc it’s alienating and bemusing. I guess I’m no stranger to feeling misunderstood though.

Idk, I feel I’m spinning my wheels and writing messages to a brick wall. It’s like Kurt Cobain said: Oh well whatever. Never mind.

 

[unodelacosa]

Don't see people saying this commonly, but I hope you enjoyed it much as I did.

Magical mystical stuff IME as far as Lysergamides go.

And too right man. Don't take things too seriously is best, hard at times as we all feel, incl feeling patronised, belittled, wrongly accused, or plain misunderstood in cases

You and I had a couple right broilers ourselves lol.

My younger arrogant prick self to blame there stirring that pot.

It stressed us both out. But how quick did we maturely sort it out, under bridge.

I can't see us ever going there again, simply maintaining mature respectful discussion.

I know you are a decent clean man, lots knowledge and passion, well meaning always.

I know you get frustrated too.

It's a stupidly stressful time atm. Things, people are tense, and touchy.

It’s so true. I’ve seen it all over since COVID-19…

Sorry for you losing close friend/relative too man.

Thanks. I appreciate your kind words and friendship. And yeah it really blows feeling misunderstood, but I remind myself that the feeling isn’t uncommon and others also feel misunderstood.

Re: ALD-52, yeah it’s super clean, even if it’s mainly a prodrug to LSD-25, it’s one clean way to get LSD in your system if the drug’s effects themselves aren’t not noticeably unique. I want to say they are, but I have a hard time ruling out placebo effect. Regardless, my mind seems to think it’s cleaner and has a slightly more positive note to sing on, if that makes sense. ETH-LAD is probs my fave lysergamide thus far.

But so it’s important to be aware of our own confirmation biases as much as one can reasonably do so. This is why I’m not ruling out placebo, or as I’m told, my single contribution on this thread is to state: “YEAH BUT YOU CAN’T PROVE IT” and then I guess I cross my arms smugly, whatever that means. The point I’m making here is that, in further attempts to get back on topic, I recommend others stay as skeptical as well on the topic of MDMA contamination guesswork,

I’m heading over to Reddit now. The Chinese are paying me to shill their brand new Meh-thamphetamine and the Mexicans need a fentanyl shill I’m told… So here I go shilling it up. Just call me Shill Shilverstein. I write and illustrate children’s stories about how great fake MDMA is. [camera cuts over to pterodactyl dishwasher]: rawk! it‘s a living! [shrugs]