Who maintains on Kratom?

[emkee_reinvented]

Never used high enough amounts of codeine but I prefer kratom to tramadol. Although, regarding pain control even going one place up the opioid scale to tapentadol kratom can't compete. Morphine and oxycodone are in the league of their own of course.

o-DSMT is f arrest I have gone.

The itchiness was annoying. Something Kratom misses by some sort of chemistry

 

[Las Veghost grower]

If something is more potent than morphine it doesn't mean a thing on its own. Bioavalability, can it easily cross blood brain barier, how it interacts with other alkaloids, is it full or partial agonist, mechanism of opioid action (G-protein-coupled vs beta arestin)...there are many known and much unknown things that contribute to effect of some substance. Especially if we are talking about plant and not a single molecule. Pregabalin is a single molecule but it is still a mystery to a great degree even to those who tweaked it. I love kratom, and believe that it contaons alkalods that act as opioid agonist, partial agonists and antagonists. It sure can't hold a candle to classical opium poppy derived opioids, but exactly of that built in mechanism regarding opioid effects and complexity of the other effects (adrenergic, serotonergic, dopaminergic...) it is a great tool for multiple things.

I agree for the most part, unfortunately I have a tendency to push things, and from my experience last night it was on par with dope, obviously everyone’s different and some people stay on subs forever, kratom is prolly better then sub but for people who want to get clean fully kratom is playing with fire

 

[Pickledlemons]

Never used high enough amounts of codeine but I prefer kratom to tramadol. Although, regarding pain control even going one place up the opioid scale to tapentadol kratom can't compete. Morphine and oxycodone are in the league of their own of course.

Oh really? I find tapentadol and tramadol to be very similar but if I had to pick one it'd be tramadol. and kratom is better than both, ime.

 

[bingey]

I think even propoxyphene is more recreational than kratom.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Oh really? I find tapentadol and tramadol to be very similar but if I had to pick one it'd be tramadol. and kratom is better than both, ime.

We have very different needs or biochemistry. Tapentadol is much strong pain killer than kratom in my experience. It also much more potent as an opioid than kratom. At least that's how it affects me.

And 150mg of tapentadol is much stronger than whatever dose of tramadol I took. Could be that I'm lacking enzymes to covert tramadol to O-desmethyltramadol...

 

[simstim]

I maintained on kratom for years. Eventually buying a kilo every 10 days got burdensome financially and so many times withdrawing due to shipping times or lack of availability. I had to quit.

 

[RCmelkor]

I did maintain on it for 10 years, but (and I may be an outlier here-just my experience) Kratom was super addictive to me and I ended up on 100gpd, and after about 30 relapses I just wound up on suboxone for kratom. Back full circle haha. Kratom's short half life is a real pain, my first day of subs was my first full sleep in god knows how many years, and I'm still getting my eating habits back on track now that I am not constantly worried about making sure my dose is effective every 3 hours.

That said, if you can actually keep your dosing under control, it does work! Still great HR vs street or most (if not all) RC opioids.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I did maintain on it for 10 years, but (and I may be an outlier here-just my experience) Kratom was super addictive to me and I ended up on 100gpd, and after about 30 relapses I just wound up on suboxone for kratom. Back full circle haha. Kratom's short half life is a real pain, my first day of subs was my first full sleep in god knows how many years, and I'm still getting my eating habits back on track now that I am not constantly worried about making sure my dose is effective every 3 hours.

That said, if you can actually keep your dosing under control, it does work! Still great HR vs street or most (if not all) RC opioids.

Agree with that last line of yours and congrats on finally getting off of the hamster wheel of kratom and getting well with the subs. Good on you.

Kratom can only do it's intended job with doses under 20 , or 30 at the most, gpd and anything over that seems to invoke more negative feelings than good. Compulsive re-dosing becomes the norm and then we start back with our old addictive tendencies.

I would never be able to afford extracts but one is on my bucket list. Have just done plain leaf only for the last 26 months at roughly 22 gpd but I have never really gotten a buzz, so to speak, and I hear you can get one from an extract.

Again, congrats on getting well and stable.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yesterday morning I would have agreed with you, but this morning I think mit can be right there with those stonger opioids…I think maybe the plant has a built in safe guard with the alkaloid profile making it a little harder to get that high, but I’m about 95% sure somewhat pure mit crystals which I think are 13x more potent than morphine? are just as bad as heroin, I’m sure this isn’t a popular opinion but we got to call a spade a spade

Nah, pure mitragynine is a partial agonist so it will never be at the level of heroin or any full agonist either in terms of maximum strength (it has a ceiling even in pure form), nor in terms of danger (it does not cause appreciable breathing depression which is the reason full agonists can overdose you). Certainly a good dose of pure M is stronger and nicer than raw leaf though, but it's never going to be anything like morphine or heroin.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Nah, pure mitragynine is a partial agonist so it will never be at the level of heroin or any full agonist either in terms of maximum strength (it has a ceiling even in pure form), nor in terms of danger (it does not cause appreciable breathing depression which is the reason full agonists can overdose you). Certainly a good dose of pure M is stronger and nicer than raw leaf though, but it's never going to be anything like morphine or heroin.

I hear you, maybe cause I’m clean atm is why it felt so strong, but I did do a bunch of extract and leaf powder

 

[RCmelkor]

Agree with that last line of yours and congrats on finally getting off of the hamster wheel of kratom and getting well with the subs. Good on you.

Kratom can only do it's intended job with doses under 20 , or 30 at the most, gpd and anything over that seems to invoke more negative feelings than good. Compulsive re-dosing becomes the norm and then we start back with our old addictive tendencies.

I would never be able to afford extracts but one is on my bucket list. Have just done plain leaf only for the last 26 months at roughly 22 gpd but I have never really gotten a buzz, so to speak, and I hear you can get one from an extract.

Again, congrats on getting well and stable.

Thanks! I found when I was able to keep it under 10gpd it was manageable (once I was deep in the back and forth of use and abstinence), but due to kindling more than 1 day in a row, or 10gpd would lead to immediate tolerance and withdrawals the following day. If I took more than 2 months break sometimes it would take 3 days to get there, but more often than not all it took was two subsequent days of daily dosing.

I used extracts sometimes but to be honest, I found them disappointing and it always took a week of higher-than-normal dose plain leaf to even begin to feel plain leaf again. Plain leaf is better, always in my books. Although I doubt I tried any of the really good fancy extracts.

Odd that you don't get a buzz - even following heroin, once I climatized to it I was always able to get a solid buzz off kratom. It always felt similar to oxy, but with an edge and more complex/social. It really is a nice buzz haha, I wish I could use it. I've tried to convince myself I can but (although I have the willpower for many other things) I just can't control it.

I appreciate the kind words! Been coupling the subs with good ol' therapy and the occasional psychedelic and I feel much more alive than I was while on Kratom/opioids.

 

[Skippwiggins]

I've known you from posts for at least a year now, since you first got sober(this time).

I went from methadone to Suboxone to sobriety to kratom, and ultimately back to Suboxone. Kratom is great for a few weeks or months but eventually had some side effects, for me it was mostly constant bowel movements(20+ per day), inability to sleep. I really think most of the side effects are from heavy metals and not from kratom. There's a sub reddit with 100k+ people, who are certain there long term kratom use caused heavy metal poisoning.

I'd say 3g equals 10-12.5mg oxycodone. At my worse I took 30g a day. The withdrawals were pretty bad. But not methadone or H bad.

I used kratom to drop my sub dose from 8mg to 2mg, and it's been a few weeks now and don't have the side effects I had prior. I really trust my source and feel this kratom to have less contaminants.

Then you read of the people who use it for 10 years with zero probs. I personally would try to maintain on kratom, and worst case get on 2mg of buprenorphine or 20mg of methadone(def prefer bupe in this situation.)

As the above said, we use psychedelic therapy 2-4x monthly, coupled with microdoses of psylocybin, Mescaline, LSD. It's def easy to keep opie usage lower and be lucid and mindful with the psychedelics.