Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

[Nurse Ratched]

Did I say giving up bupe was no problem?
Last night I lay awake all night after stupidly vaping a gram of bud early on in the evening so I ran out of sleepy weed before bedtime, but I still had some other weed, wide-awake weed of various types from the back of the drawer.
So as I lay awake thinking I'm going to hate tomorrow unless I get some sleep, all I wanted to do was slap on a high strength bupe patch or two. Or have my morning dose early. Or just grabbing the vodka and finishing that. I lay there considering every one of the meds I have stashed here and there, but I stayed in bed with the lights out listening to snoring, which I find comforting.
I don't know what to do about it, I'd like to do something, but nothing too difficult, so that's back to doing nothing about it.

What I'm taking is a lot more fun than bupe, but this waking up feeling like I've been pummelled in the lower back by an angry gorilla who then climbed down my throat and won't stop churning my guts is getting old again quickly. And that's if I even get to sleep.

What are you taking that gives you that angry gorilla feeling ?

Ar you on the bupe for recovery reasons or pain? Or both? Are you trying to get off of the bupe?

You might have answered that already but was just trying to get an idea of what you are struggling with.

 

[papercuts]

What are you taking that gives you that angry gorilla feeling ?

Ar you on the bupe for recovery reasons or pain? Or both? Are you trying to get off of the bupe?

You might have answered that already but was just trying to get an idea of what you are struggling with.

I dunno why, but I'm embarrassed that I'm addicted to opium, it's like one twentieth the strength of black tar. If I could get that again it'd be game over and I'd sink forever. So I feel I ought to not have a problem with just plain old opium. Silly.

I used to have a reason to stay clean, I was raising kids, now my terror of having them taken away is gone, they're all fantastically cool and ambitious adults now and I'm proud of the part I had in that as their mum. I stayed clean 24 years, but now I'm bored.

I need something for pain, I like opium and that is what I eat every morning and sometimes vape a bit, sometimes have some later, sometimes let it sit in my mouth and dissolve (that's even better than vaping imo), sometimes make a hot drink with it. It's very versatile, lol. I worry about pesticides a bit, but if it looks dirty I dissolve and strain it through about 40 micron mesh, the good stuff is all soluble. It's worth dissolving at least the top layer and filtering. I don't know how soluble the pesticides are.
I've been weighing it to keep track of how much I need/use

Then there's the bupe. My own doctor won't give me opiates, no doctor who's ever met me will give me opiates but I try not to take it personally.

During lockdown, I was in pain and running out of opium. I couldn't see a doctor but one spoke on the phone to me, I asked for bupe and codeine for pain and got it.
My plan was to quit opium and just use bupe eventually and no other meds.
It didn't go that way because the world opened up, I replenished my supplies and here we are again.

In other words I can't manage to pin down what I want at all, it's different every day and will be until I do something about it. I'm eating gabapentin like M&Ms too.

In order to stop myself I'd need to clear everything out of the house, lock away my phone and white knuckle it.

However, a bit like Squeaky and Hylite, I need genuine pain relief for a genuine medical condition (I pretend everything's due to that condition or menopause, covers most side effects). So there isn't any point in that.

I'd like to be more in control of it I guess. I worry.
I'd like to be sober for 24 hours to remember what it's like.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I dunno why, but I'm embarrassed that I'm addicted to opium, it's like one twentieth the strength of black tar. If I could get that again it'd be game over and I'd sink forever. So I feel I ought to not have a problem with just plain old opium. Silly.

I used to have a reason to stay clean, I was raising kids, now my terror of having them taken away is gone, they're all fantastically cool and ambitious adults now and I'm proud of the part I had in that as their mum. I stayed clean 24 years, but now I'm bored.

I need something for pain, I like opium and that is what I eat every morning and sometimes vape a bit, sometimes have some later, sometimes let it sit in my mouth and dissolve (that's even better than vaping imo), sometimes make a hot drink with it. It's very versatile, lol. I worry about pesticides a bit, but if it looks dirty I dissolve and strain it through about 40 micron mesh, the good stuff is all soluble. It's worth dissolving at least the top layer and filtering. I don't know how soluble the pesticides are.
I've been weighing it to keep track of how much I need/use

Then there's the bupe. My own doctor won't give me opiates, no doctor who's ever met me will give me opiates but I try not to take it personally.

During lockdown, I was in pain and running out of opium. I couldn't see a doctor but one spoke on the phone to me, I asked for bupe and codeine for pain and got it.
My plan was to quit opium and just use bupe eventually and no other meds.
It didn't go that way because the world opened up, I replenished my supplies and here we are again.

In other words I can't manage to pin down what I want at all, it's different every day and will be until I do something about it. I'm eating gabapentin like M&Ms too.

In order to stop myself I'd need to clear everything out of the house, lock away my phone and white knuckle it.

However, a bit like Squeaky and Hylite, I need genuine pain relief for a genuine medical condition (I pretend everything's due to that condition or menopause, covers most side effects). So there isn't any point in that.

I'd like to be more in control of it I guess. I worry.
I'd like to be sober for 24 hours to remember what it's like.

Thanks for your post. It puts things in perspective. Never knew anyone that did opium so I can't relate. I'm assuming since it's pretty obscure that you source it on the internet. So in other words, if you have money you can replenish your product. I only know opium from the dens that are depicted in movies. Like "From Hell" with Johnny Depp. Is it the latex off of poppy plants?

Sounds like you are just trying to feel better like the rest of us. I know you wish the bube could hold you and you could just use the codeine for pain. I was a lot like you. Ate opies for 30 years self medicating anxiety and depression until I realized that the opies were causing it and not fixing it. Addiction is such a personal affliction. We all use for different reasons and quit for different reasons.

Stay safe and maybe someday soon you can learn to dislike it more than you like it. Is the angry gorilla thing WD? From the opium?

 

[papercuts]

Thanks for your post. It puts things in perspective. Never knew anyone that did opium so I can't relate. I'm assuming since it's pretty obscure that you source it on the internet. So in other words, if you have money you can replenish your product. I only know opium from the dens that are depicted in movies. Like "From Hell" with Johnny Depp. Is it the latex off of poppy plants?

Sounds like you are just trying to feel better like the rest of us. I know you wish the bube could hold you and you could just use the codeine for pain. I was a lot like you. Ate opies for 30 years self medicating anxiety and depression until I realized that the opies were causing it and not fixing it. Addiction is such a personal affliction. We all use for different reasons and quit for different reasons.

Stay safe and maybe someday soon you can learn to dislike it more than you like it. Is the angry gorilla thing WD? From the opium?

Yeah, the angry gorilla is opium wd, I get it most mornings, then a piece dissolving in my mouth travels from there throughout my body, gently tingling away the pain and it's gone. Couldn't be coincidence, lol.

 

[Squeaky]

Yeah, the angry gorilla is opium wd, I get it most mornings, then a piece dissolving in my mouth travels from there throughout my body, gently tingling away the pain and it's gone. Couldn't be coincidence, lol.

My experience is this:
Oxy is for pain, but it does a bunch of other crap too. Makes me happy, confident, reduces my appetite, makes my whole body feel great, constipated, great sleep, time flys, etc. SO when I stop talking it I expect my pain to return but I also get anxiety, diarrhea, insomnia, sweating, and time moves so fucking slow. It sucks but the withdrawals are basically the opposite of all of the great stuff that the pills provide.

The same goes for nicotine, alcohol, caffeine, cheese, french fries, etc...etc. And the thing that totally screws with me is that I can’t really fathom how long I have been under the influence of all of those chemicals so the wd’s last about 10x longer than my mind can understand. In between I still have a life: work, family, pets, house..... I can’t be in wd without losing so much that I always give up. The idea that a day or a week of abstinence can reset all of those effects is ludicrous, but I still get surprised every time.

I remember being in my early 20’s. Working out every day, eating healthy, drinking mostly water, almost no alcohol, zero nicotine, and only seeing a Dr about once every 2 or 3 years. My worst experience was a hangover occasionally. I didn’t even know what ‘normal’ meant but I guess that was it. Now the idea of getting back to ‘normal’ sounds like heaven and my brain tells me to quit all of it and get my life back, BUT it will take months or years to unscrew the mess I’m in and I always give up. I know that if I just announced to my wife, kids, and boss that I need a month to lay in bed and get straight..... there’s no way I would still have a life when it’s over. Lose my job, home, etc.

So I just give up. light a cigarette. Pour a cocktail. Have some pills. Get stoned. Try to do better tomorrow and prey that someday I’ll be strong enough to stop hurting myself with all of these chemicals. That day is so far out in the future that I get depressed and I want anything to make it not feel so hopeless. And in the middle of it all my back really hurts unless I’m ingesting all of that crap every day.

I post my experiences on BL and try not lose everything I care about. At least I quit cigarettes and switched to vaping.

 

[Dundermifflin8699]

I used to tell myself that. ‘Just enough so I won’t be sick’. And I’m a pretty smart person. Somehow I ALWAYS got down to a very low level and it sounded so nice to have a little extra “this one time”. “I earned it” “It’s the weekend” “If I take a little extra before lunch I can relax”.

There’s a component of opiate use that I have never seen addressed. It hijacks my sense of rationalism. I know I’m screwing myself by using too much. I suffered through wd’s every month for two years. I was so miserable and I swore I wouldn’t do it again, but I didn’t even wait to get home from the pharmacy to take triple my prescribed dose. I made the same exact plan to NOT get into trouble every month, and I failed in the exact same way every time.

“INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER BUT EXPECTING A DIFFERENT OUTCOME.”

Opiates make us insane. At least a drunk can blame it on being drunk. I would be past the withdrawals and stone sober when I would get my script filled. Somehow I made the exact same decision as I had every month for a couple of years and I was convinced that this month would be different. That’s why I didn’t make any progress until I made it somebody else’s responsibility to make those decisions for me. I think the drugs actually rob us of our sanity in a very subtle but undeniable way.

Yes, agree to all.
Groundhog Day...
----------------------------
Getting the script filled
Ramping up
2 weeks of good doses
Last week or 10 days tapering down
Last four days , breaking tabs in halves restlessness and insomnia..

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Yes, agree to all.
Groundhog Day...
----------------------------
Getting the script filled
Ramping up
2 weeks of good doses
Last week or 10 days tapering down
Last four days , breaking tabs in halves restlessness and insomnia..

The good thing is that you are at least making them last for the month. Most on here ( and me as well in my old life ) were lucky to make the whole bottle last 10 days. Then we had 20 days with nothing.

And you are a veteran with legit pain issues, aren't you? I know it's a struggle battling needing pain relief and being ball and anchored to a pill bottle but I think you are doing pretty well.

Have a good weekend.

 

[Dundermifflin8699]

The good thing is that you are at least making them last for the month. Most on here ( and me as well in my old life ) were lucky to make the whole bottle last 10 days. Then we had 20 days with nothing.

And you are a veteran with legit pain issues, aren't you? I know it's a struggle battling needing pain relief and being ball and anchored to a pill bottle but I think you are doing pretty well.

Have a good weekend.

Thank you for the kind words...
Most appreciated..

 

[Squeaky]

Yes, agree to all.
Groundhog Day...
----------------------------
Getting the script filled
Ramping up
2 weeks of good doses
Last week or 10 days tapering down
Last four days , breaking tabs in halves restlessness and insomnia..

I have done that sooooo many times. I remember clearly once doing the taper so I wouldn’t run out completely. It was a 30 day prescription but my Dr appointments were always 4 weeks apart. I knew that I would get my pills 2 days early every time and I had it planned out how I had 2 days of ‘extra’ pills. That just meant that I would overuse them and desperately taper down to not be out completely and in withdrawal at the Dr appt.

I was down to 2 pills per day, then 1, then 1/2..... I had tapered down to my last 1/4 pill. I used it just before my appointment to stop my wd’s. Got my prescription (old school paper) and headed to the pharmacy. THEY WERE OUT OF MY PILLS!!. I went to about 8 or 9 pharmacies. I got some pretty awful attitude from several children who claimed to be pharmacists. My script was for 90 oxy 30’s and a lot of places just straight up judged me and said ‘No’. By now it was 5:00 on a Friday and I was terrified that I would have to wait until the weekend was past. Federal law says they cannot confirm or deny stock of narcotics over the phone so I have to show up at every pharmacy and hand them my prescription just to find out they don’t have it. I’m sweating, sitting in my car, staring at my phone trying to find another pharmacy, praying I could get through this.

I finally found a place that had it, didn’t give me attitude, and didn’t care my 30 day script was getting filled on day 28. I sat there for an hour, in full withdrawal, right in front of the pharmacist, determined to fake it and look like I was in pain but not in wd.

I walked out of there so grateful to be alive. This was before I discovered loperamide and Kratom, so being out of pills meant guaranteed withdrawals. I promised myself I would never get into that kind of trouble again. And then I made the same promise every month afterwards until I had to change and promise to stop promising.

Needless to say I have been loyal to that pharmacy ever since. Theres 5 major pharmacies within a mile of my house and I drive 30 minutes every month to go there.

 

[Squeaky]

I took my last 4 Percocet’s this morning. Believe it or not, this is the best I have ever done. I’m using a lot but the Tylenol scares me into using less, and dosing less frequently. I have less to use now so I run out before it becomes a bigger problem. This round I got a whole week of pain relief with very little stress.

The irony here is that I want more, a lot more, but I can see that my life is better with less. Falling asleep in the middle of dinner and slurring at work is bad. These last two months since I switched from 100mg per day of oxy to 60 mg per day of Percocet have been the best and most hopeful I have had in a couple of years. It was really nice to be on the wagon for a couple of months, but it sucked being in pain with no hope of relief. I am obviously using 3-4 times my prescription but it’s working pretty well. My wd’s are not too bad and I’m still using a lot of Kratom in between prescriptions. I’m sleeping, pooping, and getting my responsibilities handled now (not great but a year ago I wasn’t doing any of those things barely at all).

Im not delusional. I know I’m addicted and I sound like a junkie. But the fear that my pain will last forever and I can’t get any relief, ever, was driving me insane. This has given me some much-needed hope. And since I’m limited to a week on and 3 weeks off I hope to be less dependent than when I never ran out.

I’m going to try this for a few months and see how it goes. I’m sure that by Christmas I will have decided it was a mistake but for now it’s kind of working.

 

[papercuts]

I took my last 4 Percocet’s this morning. Believe it or not, this is the best I have ever done. I’m using a lot but the Tylenol scares me into using less, and dosing less frequently. I have less to use now so I run out before it becomes a bigger problem. This round I got a whole week of pain relief with very little stress.

The irony here is that I want more, a lot more, but I can see that my life is better with less. Falling asleep in the middle of dinner and slurring at work is bad. These last two months since I switched from 100mg per day of oxy to 60 mg per day of Percocet have been the best and most hopeful I have had in a couple of years. It was really nice to be on the wagon for a couple of months, but it sucked being in pain with no hope of relief. I am obviously using 3-4 times my prescription but it’s working pretty well. My wd’s are not too bad and I’m still using a lot of Kratom in between prescriptions. I’m sleeping, pooping, and getting my responsibilities handled now (not great but a year ago I wasn’t doing any of those things barely at all).

Im not delusional. I know I’m addicted and I sound like a junkie. But the fear that my pain will last forever and I can’t get any relief, ever, was driving me insane. This has given me some much-needed hope. And since I’m limited to a week on and 3 weeks off I hope to be less dependent than when I never ran out.

I’m going to try this for a few months and see how it goes. I’m sure that by Christmas I will have decided it was a mistake but for now it’s kind of working.

Good luck. It sounds like as good a plan as any other. Having something to look forward to, or a day to hang on until, should help.

 

[Dundermifflin8699]

Good luck. It sounds like as good a plan as any other. Having something to look forward to, or a day to hang on until, should help.

 

[papercuts]

I've switched back to buprenorphine.
I put a patch on last night and woke up feeling OK.
I looked it up and my patch seems to equate to just over 20mg oxy a day for comparison, so basically I'm a big woose for not being able to go lower. At least I can go to the loo now!
Oral opium lasts ages, it's one reason I like it, so I won't know how I do without it yet.
I've a few rolled up pieces, dried pea sized, to taper more slowly if needed. All else is out of reach.
I'm think I'm not stable enough in my head to keep doing this, yet I keep going back and forth like it's a compulsion.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I've switched back to buprenorphine.
I put a patch on last night and woke up feeling OK.
I looked it up and my patch seems to equate to just over 20mg oxy a day for comparison, so basically I'm a big woose for not being able to go lower. At least I can go to the loo now!
Oral opium lasts ages, it's one reason I like it, so I won't know how I do without it yet.
I've a few rolled up pieces, dried pea sized, to taper more slowly if needed. All else is out of reach.
I'm think I'm not stable enough in my head to keep doing this, yet I keep going back and forth like it's a compulsion.

It is a compulsion. I was the same way. Every single day, every single minute I obsessed about my drugs. I spent so much time doing that , nothing else got done. Well, stuff got done when I had my drugs but that was only because I didn't know how to do those things sober.

I had to reinvent myself when I quit. My whole lifestyle revolved around getting...and taking...drugs. I had no idea how to act or what to feel without a substance in me. I was like " Who am i , really? " It's been a little over 2 years that I turned my back on addiction and I still have compulsions to use. I used to get triggered like a mf'er when I read BL ( and sometimes I still do ) but I can control the cravings and the compulsions now so I guess I am safe. But I'm not sure a prior addict is ever safe. It's like we have to be on guard 24/ 7.

 

[Squeaky]

Good luck. It sounds like as good a plan as any other. Having something to look forward to, or a day to hang on

I've switched back to buprenorphine.
I put a patch on last night and woke up feeling OK.
I looked it up and my patch seems to equate to just over 20mg oxy a day for comparison, so basically I'm a big woose for not being able to go lower. At least I can go to the loo now!
Oral opium lasts ages, it's one reason I like it, so I won't know how I do without it yet.
I've a few rolled up pieces, dried pea sized, to taper more slowly if needed. All else is out of reach.
I'm think I'm not stable enough in my head to keep doing this, yet I keep going back and forth like it's a compulsion.

Biggest problem I have with giving up anything is my routine. Sometimes I can’t stop doing something just because that’s what I do every day, even if it’s something I actually hate.

 

[Squeaky]

I have been taking 20+ Percocet’s per day for a week. A little Kratom at night just so I’m not on oxy 24/7. Forget about the potential liver damage. I never got a buzz and I am having zero withdrawals. I have had the same pills from the same pharmacy before so I’m sure they’re legit. I did enjoy the relief from my aches and pains, but before I found Kratom that prescription would have lasted at least 2 weeks and I know I would have taken too much because it felt very nice, more than just pain relief.

I am still getting Kratom withdrawals. Originally I started using Kratom to cover my oxy wd’s. Then it became my pain reliever. Soooo strange but now I feel like oxy or Percocet really only stop my Kratom wd’s because right now I’m back to dealing with Kratom wd’s.

Either way I feel like I’m immune to the euphoria from oxy. Kratom has probably created some sort of scar tissue around my opiate receptors. I’m still trying to decide if it’s a blessing or a curse. I’m not able to actively be addicted to my DOC, so that’s probably good. BUT there’s no substantial pain relief in my future. I’m sad I can’t enjoy those pills anymore, but also hopeful this is the beginning of the end of my struggle.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I have been taking 20+ Percocet’s per day for a week. A little Kratom at night just so I’m not on oxy 24/7. Forget about the potential liver damage. I never got a buzz and I am having zero withdrawals. I have had the same pills from the same pharmacy before so I’m sure they’re legit. I did enjoy the relief from my aches and pains, but before I found Kratom that prescription would have lasted at least 2 weeks and I know I would have taken too much because it felt very nice, more than just pain relief.

I am still getting Kratom withdrawals. Originally I started using Kratom to cover my oxy wd’s. Then it became my pain reliever. Soooo strange but now I feel like oxy or Percocet really only stop my Kratom wd’s because right now I’m back to dealing with Kratom wd’s.

Either way I feel like I’m immune to the euphoria from oxy. Kratom has probably created some sort of scar tissue around my opiate receptors. I’m still trying to decide if it’s a blessing or a curse. I’m not able to actively be addicted to my DOC, so that’s probably good. BUT there’s no substantial pain relief in my future. I’m sad I can’t enjoy those pills anymore, but also hopeful this is the beginning of the end of my struggle.

Kratom is a curse in active addiction because it competes with our pills. But it is a blessing when we quit because it keeps us sane.

 

[Squeaky]

had a pretty aggressive weekend opiate wise (2000 mg of ODMST in 48 hours) 24 hours off now - already regretting it. Was not dependent on opiates before but for sure have kindled those receptors - next 2 days are probably not going to be fun.

I also have a head cold on top of it - so feeling pretty shit today.

The restless feelings in your limbs is something that opiates seem to really produce more so than other drugs. A uniquely frustrating sensation.

About to take 5g of kratom, hoping it will cut through this fishbowl feeling better than the cold medicine and weed did.

Good luck. Kratom has always helped me, but in much larger doses

 

[Squeaky]

I

Good luck. Kratom has always helped me, but in much larger doses

Isn’t it funny (or stupid)? The same thing happens every time:
Drugs come in. Promises are made to not overdo it, make it last. At some point you say ‘Fuck it! Tomorrow’s going to suck anyway, so I might as well enjoy tonight!’ We just figure that no matter how difficult tomorrow is, it will be worth it.

Then tomorrow comes and it is clear that it was NOT worth it. It hurts 3x more than we remember, and lasts 2x as long as we expected. I always kick myself for being so stupid, but them I do exactly the same thing next time.

I think a big part of growing up is recognizing how immature I really am. Or maybe it’s just what the voices in my head are telling me.

 

[papercuts]

I think a big part of growing up is recognizing how immature I really am. Or maybe it’s just what the voices in my head are telling me.

I've been told that inner immaturity has a lot to do with addiction. Everyone has immature aspects to their personality, interactions we can't manage maturely or impulses carrying us away in the moment.
I keep crying, I feel bereft without my DOC, but bupe is keeping me pain free so far. I think this might not last.