What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[moonyham]

"who might aswell just be afflicted by permatolerance or aging brains."

Na man, I made a post here a while ago about my gf, a virgin to mdma, only smoked weed twice in her life. She had a meh experience, as did I. Our pupils didn't fully dilate and she fell asleep 2-3hrs after consumption, something that should not be possible on real mdma. It tested positive for mdma on a regent test.

I didn't even know about mehdma when I took it, after around a 10 year break from party drugs. So I didn't go into it and psyche myself out or something.

Everything about my experience lines up with others though, which to me, given I didn't know shit about the topic, says that it isn't a brain aging situation or perma tolerance. It's the drug. They've fucked with it.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I didn't even know about mehdma when I took it, after around a 10 year break from party drugs. So I didn't go into it and psyche myself out or something.

Same here. I had a good 10 year break from MDMA after doing many excellent pills during the 90s and early naughties.

Then around 2015, I acquired some of that so called 'champagne' crystal and was looking forward to it immensely. Took a good solid dose and spent 3 hours slumped over the kitchen table thinking WTF is this?

 

[unodelacosa]

"who might aswell just be afflicted by permatolerance or aging brains."

Na man, I made a post here a while ago about my gf, a virgin to mdma, only smoked weed twice in her life. She had a meh experience, as did I.

You know this doesn’t prove a single thing, right? You don’t have a sample size large enough to draw conclusions, and you’re not even close to this being any kind of blind/double-blind study. The subject could easily be biased by the researcher or any number of different factors. Yet ppl who makes similar claims expect everyone else to be as swayed as they are by their own biases. I understand the temptation to do this, and I appreciate how convincing these experiences can be toward drawing the wrong conclusions, so don’t sweat it. Just be open to the idea that perhaps not a single one of us has guessed correctly what’s up with this shit, or even that I’m dead wrong and you indeed have it right. IMHO, no one can rule out much of anything, despite this thread’s original post‘s claims.

Our pupils didn't fully dilate and she fell asleep 2-3hrs after consumption,

Again, two test subjects (you & the GF) who react to a drug in an unsatisfactory way to you—do not make for a convincing argument. I‘m not aiming to be a contrarian dick here, either, nor am I judging anyone for these beliefs. It’s easy to slip into this logical fallacy.

something that should not be possible on real mdma.

You’re making a false assumption here. Of course that’s possible on MDMA. Go look at the wide range of reactions that just about every drug on the market experiences during clinical trials. They range in side-effects, sometimes exhibiting paradoxical effects even, other times being indistinguishable from placebo, and yet still other times leading to unpleasant experiences not anticipated by subject or researcher. Hence: the testing.

It tested positive for mdma on a regent test.

All this means is that the drug mixture probably contains MDMA, but says nothing about quantity, quality, impurities and/or present, or potentially dangerous, cuts. You’d need quantifiable data (and its interpretation) from something like GC-MS performed by a competent, properly equipped testing lab. People place too much faith in simple-ass, presumptive, reagent testing.

I didn't even know about mehdma when I took it, after around a 10 year break from party drugs. So I didn't go into it and psyche myself out or something.

Ok great, but this is all anecdotal experience that still doesn’t conclusively answer anything. We’ve already established that people are reporting this experience after having ample time to lose all traces of tolerance. It still doesn’t rule out many other explanations.

I noticed you say you took a “10 year break from party drugs” and the modifier “party” attached to “drugs” might imply that during this 10-year hiatus perhaps you took pharmaceutical drugs (read: ”non-party drugs“) or a ℞ of some sort. Are you on any medications? In your mind, have you abandoned alternative theories here?

Everything about my experience lines up with others though, which to me, given I didn't know shit about the topic, says that it isn't a brain aging situation or perma tolerance. It's the drug. They've fucked with it.

Man, this thread just goes in endless circles. I’m not taking a stance like I know what causes this phenomenon, because I don’t. What I am saying is: neither does anyone else at this point in time. You might think you know, but most of us our experts at lying to ourselves on top of being vulnerable to confirmation bias; I’m no exception.

Everyone who’s so cocksure they know what’s causing this phenomenon, making unjustifiably emboldened statements like, “It’s the drug. They’ve fucked with it,” does not have enough data to draw these conclusions with any accuracy and is lying to themselves about their own ability to perceive a highly subjective experience in a scientifically objective manner. And sure, maybe anecdotes inform scientists where to look for anomalies, but that only applies when said scientists have the proper tools to continue investigating…

 

[moonyham]

You know this doesn’t prove a single thing, right? You don’t have a sample size large enough to draw conclusions, and you’re not even close to this being any kind of blind/double-blind study. The subject could easily be biased by the researcher or any number of different factors. Yet ppl who makes similar claims expect everyone else to be as swayed as they are by their own biases. I understand the temptation to do this, and I appreciate how convincing these experiences can be toward drawing the wrong conclusions, so don’t sweat it. Just be open to the idea that perhaps not a single one of us has guessed correctly what’s up with this shit, or even that I’m dead wrong and you indeed have it right. IMHO, no one can rule out much of anything, despite this thread’s original post‘s claims.


Again, two test subjects (you & the GF) who react to a drug in an unsatisfactory way to you—do not make for a convincing argument. I‘m not aiming to be a contrarian dick here, either, nor am I judging anyone for these beliefs. It’s easy to slip into this logical fallacy.

You’re making a false assumption here. Of course that’s possible on MDMA. Go look at the wide range of reactions that just about every drug on the market experiences during clinical trials. They range in side-effects, sometimes exhibiting paradoxical effects even, other times being indistinguishable from placebo, and yet still other times leading to unpleasant experiences not anticipated by subject or researcher. Hence: the testing.

All this means is that the drug mixture probably contains MDMA, but says nothing about quantity, quality, impurities and/or present, or potentially dangerous, cuts. You’d need quantifiable data (and its interpretation) from something like GC-MS performed by a competent, properly equipped testing lab. People place too much faith in simple-ass, presumptive, reagent testing.


Ok great, but this is all anecdotal experience that still doesn’t conclusively answer anything. We’ve already established that people are reporting this experience after having ample time to lose all traces of tolerance. It still doesn’t rule out many other explanations.

I noticed you say you took a “10 year break from party drugs” and the modifier “party” attached to “drugs” might imply that during this 10-year hiatus perhaps you took pharmaceutical drugs (read: ”non-party drugs“) or a ℞ of some sort. Are you on any medications? In your mind, have you abandoned alternative theories here?


Man, this thread just goes in endless circles. I’m not taking a stance like I know what causes this phenomenon, because I don’t. What I am saying is: neither does anyone else at this point in time. You might think you know, but most of us our experts at lying to ourselves on top of being vulnerable to confirmation bias; I’m no exception.

Everyone who’s so cocksure they know what’s causing this phenomenon, making unjustifiably emboldened statements like, “It’s the drug. They’ve fucked with it,” does not have enough data to draw these conclusions with any accuracy and is lying to themselves about their own ability to perceive a highly subjective experience in a scientifically objective manner. And sure, maybe anecdotes inform scientists where to look for anomalies, but that only applies when said scientists have the proper tools to continue investigating…

Sorry do you think you are enlightened by having no confidence in anything?

You keep going on about data yet completely dismiss the only data rolling in, peoples experiences.

And no, in my break from mdma/drugs all I did was smoke a bit of weed. Great investigatory skills, Watson.

You say how falling asleep on mdma after 2-3hrs is 'possible' and to direct my attention to how many different reactions exist? Lol wtf. I've rolled with hundreds, done this shit countless times. All back in the day. Guess how many people were falling asleep within 2-3hrs of dropping, oh what's the ZERO?? WOW. And considering how sensitive first time users generally are, for THEM to fall asleep? Lol bro.

You are honestly like a really bad defense attorney. Slinging shit hoping something will stick. Who do you work for, the Chinese? The Mexican cartels? Your reply is so unbelievably naive it comes across like a shill from the makers of this bullshit "mdma".

 

[moonyham]

By the way, ruling out theories is part of how we get to the bottom of this.. Maybe myself and gf experience doesn't mean much by itself but if lots of people have the same experience then it does mean something.

I didn't feel my experience really proved anything besides it not being a tolerance/brain thing. Which apparently is just so so controversial to you.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Furthermore (just to continue this exercise in tail chasing futility), it's not the many, many people who confirm the phenomenon of MehDMA that are at fault, it's those who deny its existence.

The latter fall into two camps:

1. Those who are fortunate enough to have access to consistently good product

2. Those who have never had the good shit

 

[moonyham]

Furthermore (just to continue this exercise in tail chasing futility), it's not the many, many people who confirm the phenomenon of MehDMA that are at fault, it's those who deny its existence.

The latter fall into two camps:

1. Those who are fortunate enough to have access to consistently good product

2. Those who have never had the good shit

I think this probably sums it up pretty well.

Some regions/circles might still get a good supply but for the most part it seems the drug is dead as it was originally.

Interestingly I saw a post about meth and how it's changed and even though you get more 'pure' shit now the buzz is different. Something about p2p or whatever. I've smoked what is almost like two completely different drugs, both meth.. And I think it's the same for mdma. I only tasted that good stuff once out of a dozen or two smokes.

 

[indigoaura]

It is not just @moonyham who has posted about being with virgin users who had little to no effect. I have seen that as well. Another husband and wife posted the same thing in the early iteration of the thread, as well as others.

When long time users post, we are told that we have tolerance; we have lost the magic.

When a long time user posts who has observed a MDMA naïve subject/virgin user also have little to no effect, that should resolve the tolerance argument. A virgin user should be able to experience the full effects of the drug. There are not that many people out there who are immune to the effects of MDMA from a genetic standpoint.

Observational studies are valid in the field of psychology. Case studies are valid in the field of psychology. Not everything is a double blind experiment, although that is certainly the gold standard. Case studies and observational studies pave the way for double blind experiments to occur later.

You can't just dismiss case studies and observational studies as being irrelevant. Any psychology textbook or research methodology textbook will confirm the necessity of these types of early observations. How do you think researchers develop hypotheses for more advanced studies? Usually, on the shoulders of case studies and observational data.

I have tried to gather as much objective data as possible by sending samples to labs, finding published and peer reviewed research that backs up the interfering qualities of contaminants, etc.

I have literally spent thousands of dollars on lab testing, and I am not even kidding about that.

But at this point, I think the lab testing is a fucking joke.

Here is a fun story for you - sent a sample to IEC recently. They told me it was 90% MDMA. Not according to a brand new bottle of Simon's reagent though. Simon's did not turn blue, so Simon's clearly indicated MDA. I took it. It was OBVIOUSLY MDA and not MDMA. I had closed and open eyed visuals and other trippy effects that I do not experience on MDMA.

So, the lab was just straight up wrong. I don't know how we are supposed to have faith in anything we are consuming if the labs can't even be trusted to distinguish between MDA and MDMA.

@unodelacosa, you make valuable chemistry contributions to the thread, but I really think you should try to be a bit less dismissive of the people reporting observational data. It is probably not your intent, but you come across like you are being dismissive and shutting people down. This thread was started based on observational data, and there are YEARS of history of people sharing observational data here. People have the right to share their observations without being shut down.

 

[psy997]

Big news for those of us interested in making the entirety of this and the last thread more easily accessible for the purposes of organizing and presenting the data collected! I was able to scrape the entirety of both threads, and now have .csv files for both that I am going to be using to tag posts describing Meh experiences, Magic experiences, all presented theories and hypotheses, and more! If anyone has any ideas for columns, eg. tags to add to the spreadsheet, please let me know! There's about 5,150 posts, so it's going to take a while, and I'm not sure how best to store and present the data once at least the first passthrough has been completed - I'm also open to ideas on that - but woohoo! I've been wanting to scrape every post for tagging and organizing for a few years now, and it's finally happened!

 

[unodelacosa]

It is not just @moonyham who has posted about being with virgin users who had little to no effect. I have seen that as well. Another husband and wife posted the same thing in the early iteration of the thread, as well as others.

Well then why didn't you say so sooner? Someone call the FDA and let them know.

When long time users post, we are told that we have tolerance; we have lost the magic.

I don't tell you this; this is just a possibility that some people bring up. I think the more likely candidate is adulteration – something you had previously ruled out based on bad intel from IEC.

When a long time user posts who has observed a MDMA naïve subject/virgin user also have little to no effect, that should resolve the tolerance argument.

Just that one instance alone? I know what you're driving at, but that's not how things are proven scientifically.

A virgin user should be able to experience the full effects of the drug. There are not that many people out there who are immune to the effects of MDMA from a genetic standpoint.

I'm not dismissing anecdotal evidence. I'm saying its value is limited. Anyone who wants to debate that and claim that anecdotes have limitless value to scientific discovery is clearly either delusional or a troll. I'm not disputing that the phenomenon occurs; I've never disputed that. All I've done is rebutted ideas that have obvious logic flaws. To be clear, @F.U.B.A.R., I am not denying the existence of the phenomenon. People are acting like they have deduced what's going on through sheer discussion, logic, confirmation bias and groupthink, and motherfuck real science. I mean it's whatever, I'm just trying to get people to wake up to all the possibilities and understand why it's impossible to draw meaningful conclusions right now with respect to scientific discovery. I'd like to see a world where less misinformation is so widely disseminated, but I guess that's why propaganda is so effective.

Sorry if everyone reads my tone wrong and thinks I'm a condescending know-it-all prick. @moonyham seems particularly upset and eager to throw something personally insulting at me, which is a shame. Yeah bro, I'm a shill for the Chinese, you fuckin' genius, you. What an acerbic wit on you, buddy boy. Some real zingers you were throwing at me there. Gotta watch this one. Feisty

Observational studies are valid in the field of psychology. Case studies are valid in the field of psychology. Not everything is a double blind experiment, although that is certainly the gold standard. Case studies and observational studies pave the way for double blind experiments to occur later.

At what point though does a study reach a point of anecdotal saturation? Sure, keep data coming in, why not? But at some point we will have exhausted the limit of what this can provide and we need to develop real tests with real industry-standard tools to gain any new insights. If I sound a little cheesed off, it's because I've been frustrated by the global drug prohibition policies and their hampering effect on research for fucking years now, and it gets tedious trying to explain what the scientific method is and how it works in this context and why it's a remarkably unhelpful act of hubris to assume one can just rely on their own nervous system 100% in identifying various mind-altering drugs to any fine delineating degree.

You can't just dismiss case studies and observational studies as being irrelevant. Any psychology textbook or research methodology textbook will confirm the necessity of these types of early observations. How do you think researchers develop hypotheses for more advanced studies? Usually, on the shoulders of case studies and observational data.

When the f… ? Why do I have to keep explaining this? @indigoaura you of all people on this thread know that I know my shit. You know I'm not outright dismissing anecdotal evidence, and especially not case studies. That's putting words in my mouth I never said. FFS, could everyone please stop and just think about what I'm saying and quit being so defensive? All I'm saying is we still don't know what's causing the MehDMA phenomenon.

I have tried to gather as much objective data as possible by sending samples to labs, finding published and peer reviewed research that backs up the interfering qualities of contaminants, etc.

I have literally spent thousands of dollars on lab testing, and I am not even kidding about that.

Oh I know, and I salute you for that and I'm grateful to have made some discoveries through your efforts, not the least of which is the uncharming, near-useless info factory quasi-con artistry that is International Energy Control, Spain. (Consumer beware).

But at this point, I think the lab testing is a fucking joke.

Yeah and that's a real shame, bc it feels like they're taking advantage of people who are trying to do the right thing and be safe.

Here is a fun story for you - sent a sample to IEC recently. They told me it was 90% MDMA. Not according to a brand new bottle of Simon's reagent though. Simon's did not turn blue, so Simon's clearly indicated MDA. I took it. It was OBVIOUSLY MDA and not MDMA. I had closed and open eyed visuals and other trippy effects that I do not experience on MDMA.

It's like they're just taking people's money and making shit up without consequence… And this misinformation has been behind quite a bit of squabbling on here, because assumption were made based on the strength of this testing falsely leading to the conclusion that the MehDMA sample tests as pure MDMA with no adulterations.

Removing this false conclusion returns us to the possibility that for several years now, various batches have shown up in different locations that appear to be MDMA with heavy contamination from other distantly related phenethylamine compounds thought to be from the research chemical market. It's just my own conjecture here, but this leads me to believe the imposter MDMA is likely a mixture of a serotonergic cathinone/entactogen primarily, plus some MDMA to throw off reagent tests, caffeine /which will catalyze the psychoactive substances, and possibly something like meth here and there. Totally a guess, and most of the other postulated ideas are also viable, from MDDMA/MDTMA contamination (this is an excellent theory, btw, @indigoaura; whether correct, I was very impressed with your conjecture here) to bath salts.

So, the lab was just straight up wrong. I don't know how we are supposed to have faith in anything we are consuming if the labs can't even be trusted to distinguish between MDA and MDMA.

Yeah, it's frustrating and upsetting. But I think we know what to do now, and what to ask out of any future testing facilities. It's also not impossible to get one's hands on the proper equipment, obtain the standards, and run their own tests. It wouldn't be very cheap though, and it could incur some risks potentially depending on various factors.

@unodelacosa, you make valuable chemistry contributions to the thread, but I really think you should try to be a bit less dismissive of the people reporting observational data. It is probably not your intent, but you come across like you are being dismissive and shutting people down. This thread was started based on observational data, and there are YEARS of history of people sharing observational data here. People have the right to share their observations without being shut down.

Sorry but I'm going to point out bad logic when I see it. It's not a dismissal and I can only sugar-coat my words but so much. I know there are people on here who really fucking hate me and can't stand anything I post. That's fine. I'm not trying to please everyone. But I do seek, and tell, the truth. Sometimes people can't deal with that. But they'll be okay. I just urge people to keep an open mind until the truth is actually revealed and, until then, resist the urge to jump to false conclusions. Or fuck, what do I care? Jump to false conclusions all you want, anyone who thinks they've got the answer to what's behind "MehDMA". Share your conclusions with all the world, too, and don't bother giving a fuck about the truth. Just don't expect me to be onboard. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Selah.

 

[unodelacosa]

Your reply is so unbelievably naive it comes across like a shill from the makers of this bullshit "mdma".

Do me a big favor and take a couple minutes, glance through my posts I've put on here, and then tell me if you really actually think I'm a shill. Seriously, if you do that, and still are convinced I'm a shill, then I'll accept that. But if not, I'd like an apology for this accusation, please.

Hell, maybe I'm asking too much of you. Let me just say that my reaction score speaks for itself. Try not to be such a dick to people who are genuinely trying to help out.

 

[moonyham]

Do me a big favor and take a couple minutes, glance through my posts I've put on here, and then tell me if you really actually think I'm a shill. Seriously, if you do that, and still are convinced I'm a shill, then I'll accept that. But if not, I'd like an apology for this accusation, please.

Hell, maybe I'm asking too much of you. Let me just say that my reaction score speaks for itself. Try not to be such a dick to people who are genuinely trying to help out.

I think at best you are a troll and at worst you actively try to shut down online conversation of MehDMA as you stand to lose money or are part of that industry somehow.

You seem so unwilling to accept what many people have experienced. You cast so much doubt it's like you think *we* are part of a conspiracy. How can this be? There is no way I would ever see a thread like this but let's say it's heroin, or meth, or some other drug and there's reports dating years of people having this weird meh experience with shit testing as what it's supposed to be, and then be like NO WAY! YOU ARE ALL WRONG! I KNOW CHEMISTRY! Even if I had never had the same experience, at some point you have to accept there is overwhelming evidence in the form of trip reports that something is off *with the drug*. Not the people.

 

[AussieJoe]

Some will say its good some will not
Some labs make it good some dont....dosent all come from 1 place.Who knows exactly why this phenonomen exists...good batches bad batches...its all relative.Plenty folk notice a difference that cannot be ignored...impurities?fkd if I know ...but this keeps just going around and around.Dosent matter how much chemistry one may know ...if ppl are whinging about it ...they not imagining different experiences....if ppl from different countries around the world are saying the same story ..must be some truth to it ...just my 1.5 cents worth.

 

[unodelacosa]

I think at best you are a troll and at worst you actively try to shut down online conversation of MehDMA as you stand to lose money or are part of that industry somehow.

Are you fucking kidding me? Are you really this ignorant? So that's what you actually think!? Ahahahahahahahahaha! I'm DYING laughing over this. OMG, wow. Just wow.

You seem so unwilling to accept what many people have experienced.

I've already stated many times that I believe the phenomenon is real. What in the actual fuck are you even talking about?

You cast so much doubt it's like you think *we* are part of a conspiracy. How can this be? There is no way I would ever see a thread like this but let's say it's heroin, or meth, or some other drug and there's reports dating years of people having this weird meh experience with shit testing as what it's supposed to be, and then be like NO WAY! YOU ARE ALL WRONG! I KNOW CHEMISTRY! Even if I had never had the same experience, at some point you have to accept there is overwhelming evidence in the form of trip reports that something is off *with the drug*. Not the people.

Oh Jesus Christ, you've got to be fucking with me. There is no way you're serious about these statements. Once again, as I've stated over and over, I don't doubt the phenomenon is real, okay? And we've got lots of good guesses as to what its cause is. What we don't have though is conclusive evidence of exactly which guess is the right guess. Now what the fuck are you talking about saying that I'm making claims to the contrary? Try bringing something to the table next time before you try to attack me with brainless insults. Or better yet, try actually reading what I'm posting.

 

[unodelacosa]

Don't believe everything that you read. Skepticism is a virtue. If you think blindly believing in things is wiser than questioning every assumption, we're not probably gonna get along much. Also, you're probably not gonna be much help getting to the bottom of the MehDMA mystery with the blind faith approach, just FYI. Try not to freak out and project all your fears and hatreds on to me for being the bearer of truth here, or i.e. don't shoot the messenger. I'm not happy about these facts either. Res ipsa loquitur.

 

[Frazzled1990]

You say how falling asleep on mdma after 2-3hrs is 'possible' and to direct my attention to how many different reactions exist? Lol wtf. I've rolled with hundreds, done this shit countless times. All back in the day. Guess how many people were falling asleep within 2-3hrs of dropping, oh what's the ZERO?? WOW. And considering how sensitive first time users generally are, for THEM to fall asleep? Lol bro.

The situation a person is in when they take MDMA matters greatly. Taking MDMA in a club setting for example can be a drastically different experience than taking MDMA alone at home.

MDMA boosts Serotonin levels and in a lively setting, it remains as Serotonin creating powerful anti-depressant and anti-anxiety effects. Giving the user all the confidence in the world to just walk up and talk to complete strangers about anything and everything without a care in the world.

On the other hand. If a person is sitting at home alone chilled out on the couch, their brain and body is in wind down mode and all of that excess Serotonin is converted into Melatonin. Which can quite easily send a person to sleep after 2-3 hours. I've personally had this experience with MDMA myself. It was my first experience as well, so certainly not a tolerance issue.

 

[Frazzled1990]

I'm referring to proper MDMA here BTW. Not the shit that makes you clench your jaw and squeeze a thousand words into a sentence. Proper MDMA shouldn't feel anything like a speed overdose.

Real MDMA is a relaxing yet enlightening experience. All of your troubles and insecurities melt away and you feel deeply connected to those around you. Everything feels, sounds, looks, smells and tastes better. All of your characteristics feel enhanced.

Where as speed just turns you into an annoying blubbering teeth grinding idiot.

 

[unodelacosa]

The situation a person is in when they take MDMA matters greatly. Taking MDMA in a club setting for example can be a drastically different experience than taking MDMA alone at home.

MDMA boosts Serotonin levels and in a lively setting, it remains as Serotonin creating powerful anti-depressant and anti-anxiety effects. Giving the user all the confidence in the world to just walk up and talk to complete strangers about anything and everything without a care in the world.

On the other hand. If a person is sitting at home alone chilled out on the couch, their brain and body is in wind down mode and all of that excess Serotonin is converted into Melatonin. Which can quite easily send a person to sleep after 2-3 hours. I've personally had this experience with MDMA myself. It was my first experience as well, so certainly not a tolerance issue.

Hey @moonyham – what are your thoughts on this comment? Is @Frazzled1990 now working for the Yakuza, the Triads, and the MehDMA Mafia now too, or what? HAHAHAHAHA, you're one funny motherfucker @moonyham. Better watch out or the North Koreans will get you force you to take MehDMA; I should know; I work for them, MWAHAHAHA! It's all part of my evil scheme! [thunder cracks; lightning strikes; dramatic music plays] Shoulda called yourself “hammyham”, @moonyham with all this dramatic hamming it up you like to do. I dig that conspiracy, though. Lol, like that's what I do with my time is shill bad MDMA on motherfucking Bluelight, hahahahahahaha. I like how you think that someone would really bother to do that. That is fucking HILARIOUS. You're a gem. Thank you for the good laugh. I needed that.

 

[Frazzled1990]

Is @Frazzled1990 now working for the Yakuza, the Triads, and the MehDMA Mafia now too, or what?

 

[Kaden_Nite]

I think at best you are a troll and at worst you actively try to shut down online conversation of MehDMA as you stand to lose money or are part of that industry somehow.

You seem so unwilling to accept what many people have experienced. You cast so much doubt it's like you think *we* are part of a conspiracy. How can this be? There is no way I would ever see a thread like this but let's say it's heroin, or meth, or some other drug and there's reports dating years of people having this weird meh experience with shit testing as what it's supposed to be, and then be like NO WAY! YOU ARE ALL WRONG! I KNOW CHEMISTRY! Even if I had never had the same experience, at some point you have to accept there is overwhelming evidence in the form of trip reports that something is off *with the drug*. Not the people.

It's irrelevant anyway, since second-hand reports are unreliable, but you gave her just 60mg of this MDMA. You say she didn't experience what you think she should have experienced, and you concluded there must be a problem and it must be 'today's MDMA'.

You decided this from one dose of one batch: the world's MDMA is defective now.

I've seen the same leap taken repeatedly, and it is an incredibly flawed path. You cannot draw any conclusion from an assumption.