Stimulants Clobenzorex, any experiences?

[LongTimeViwer]

So after reading this site sporadically for years (a lot of years!) this is the thread that finally got me to make an account. There's been so much interest in this stuff because of the various adderall and related shortages that I did my best to gather as much actual scholarly research data as I could on the stuff and compile it. If you want the full rundown check this reddit post (not recreating that!):

Basically the big things I found (and I'm breaking this down differently than I did in the more through lit review above are (a) the duration for a single dose (of the IR formulation of the pro-drug, weird I know) is anywhere from 7-15 hours which is a pretty wide range to say the least. It's metabolized in gut/kidneys so unlike vyvanse (which is metabolized in blood) partially this is the effect of classic GI factors; (b) it really is a weight loss drug; it has more pronounced effects on things which benefit weight loss (fat burning and appetite suppression for example); the parent compound and non-amp metabolites have effects in this area --- unlike amp, clob is highly lipophilic and therapeutically (i.e. as a weigh loss drug) this is supposedly helpful as while the main effects suppress appetite it would start burning through fat cells and releasing more compound; (c) as indicated in b, the parent compound and metabolites do indeed have their own active properties (unlike in vyvanse or spansules theoretically.) Outside of the weight loss stuff these seem to be primarily a very, very strange effect (especially for a stimulant) where those will actually lower cortisol levels at some point, for example, which is just strange for a stimulant. Looking at the data I pulled, it seems like you'd probably have a period (pretty fast) where d-amp effects predominate followed by a period in which this more calming effect predominates. The most recent paper I found also looked at specific characteristic of clob (again this is nothing like amp as far as I can tell) that have similar anti-depressant qualities to a bunch of other largely non-stim compounds (this is actually the most recent research I found, from this year, and its really hard to parse); (d) studies and straight up package inserts in various languages cite the serotonergic effect as part of its mechanism (again for weigh loss this apparently increases feelings of satiety.) Also the rx directions for "IR' are b.i.d (2x a day) one upon waking and one at lunch which makes me thing that there's some kind of median experience of about... 6-9 hours?

I'm curious to hear about more personal experiences. I tried to keep that lit review as 'objective' as possible. One other thing to note: safety profile actually seems pretty good all things considered. It was pulled from markets for abuse potential not for health problems and almost all toxic reports are insane polydrug combos (and there's really only a few.) Seems to have similar, possibly better safety profile than regular old d-amp. Finally, the dosing in terms of amounts in studies waaaaay above the rx levels. (This is not that uncommon fwiw but usually you find super high doses in like early trial phases. I am seeing some of the high dose studies in the most recent lit.) Like studies using 90, 120, and even higher amounts. I think the dosing guidelines are partially a reaction to it being pulled for subjective addiction effects balanced with some kind of baseline to get the actual intended weightloss effects but that is pure speculation. If you want to see the more thorough (and rather unique) scientific breakdowns (which again I admit despite some background as being pretty far above my working knowledge) check out the link above. Again, posting here (a) to share as much real info as one can glean as far as I can tell for harm reduction and general info; (b) to see how this stacks up against people's subjective experiences?

 

[Lady Codone]

Subjectively I've used this stuff daily since Summer 2022 and in pretty big doses (7-10 pills per day). Yeah, not proud but as stated I'm a long-term stim user with a tolerance. I also have a 20mg/day Adderall script. The Adderall by far makes me feel more jumpy and sketchy and despite being ER, it wears off MUCH faster. Kinda feels like caffeine compared to this.

I get urine tested for the Addy and I know my clobenz isn't contaminated because it only shows up as amphetamine, not meth or anything sketchy. (I've had some false-positives in the office that were sent off to the lab only to be confirmed "clean". Probably one of the many many other supplements or meds I take). Sometimes my heart rate is in tachycardia (over 100) but sometimes not. This happened on 4-FA, 2-FMA and other Stims so it's nothing new. It's usually in the 70s-80s when I'm home & relaxed. And my blood pressure is usually normal though IDK how. I also use kratom and occasionally codeine when I can get it (alternating between the two).

I am, however, concerned because Itravil appears to be unavailable completely at the moment & for the last few days. Getting redirected to an unrelated product. Will be VERY sad if it's gone forever. Still don't like the lingering doubts about 5HT2b agonism that online tweaks keep putting in my head & wish we knew for sure that, IF it causes PAH/cardiomyopathy/cardiac fibrosis, whether it falls closer to the lorcaserin/oxymetazoline end of the spectrum or by deadly fenfluramine. (i.e. how strong the agonism/receptor binding is).

Here's a handy wheel containing the various drugs suspected of causing this effect on the heart and/or lungs:



Might have switch to smtg cheaper like fenproporex or amfepramone, though I also have no clue how those measure up in the 5ht2b department. I know of NO ONE who's tried them and don't think subjective effects tell us much about that anyway.

 

[negrogesic]

Subjectively I've used this stuff daily since Summer 2022 and in pretty big doses (7-10 pills per day). Yeah, not proud but as stated I'm a long-term stim user with a tolerance. I also have a 20mg/day Adderall script. The Adderall by far makes me feel more jumpy and sketchy and despite being ER, it wears off MUCH faster. Kinda feels like caffeine compared to this.

I get urine tested for the Addy and I know my clobenz isn't contaminated because it only shows up as amphetamine, not meth or anything sketchy. (I've had some false-positives in the office that were sent off to the lab only to be confirmed "clean". Probably one of the many many other supplements or meds I take). Sometimes my heart rate is in tachycardia (over 100) but sometimes not. This happened on 4-FA, 2-FMA and other Stims so it's nothing new. It's usually in the 70s-80s when I'm home & relaxed. And my blood pressure is usually normal though IDK how. I also use kratom and occasionally codeine when I can get it (alternating between the two).

I am, however, concerned because Itravil appears to be unavailable completely at the moment & for the last few days. Getting redirected to an unrelated product. Will be VERY sad if it's gone forever. Still don't like the lingering doubts about 5HT2b agonism that online tweaks keep putting in my head & wish we knew for sure that, IF it causes PAH/cardiomyopathy/cardiac fibrosis, whether it falls closer to the lorcaserin/oxymetazoline end of the spectrum or by deadly fenfluramine. (i.e. how strong the agonism/receptor binding is).

Here's a handy wheel containing the various drugs suspected of causing this effect on the heart and/or lungs:



Might have switch to smtg cheaper like fenproporex or amfepramone, though I also have no clue how those measure up in the 5ht2b department. I know of NO ONE who's tried them and don't think subjective effects tell us much about that anyway.

I have had a very similar experience as you. I don't take it every day (I mainly rely on it when I run out of my 30mg/day dexedrine script -- I would actually prefer adderall but obtaining it during the shortage was too difficult so I switched to dex).

So you've been taking 7 to 10 clobenzorex capsules everyday with the adderall? I've probably take 10 clobenzorex capsules during a day, but it's usually been 5 to 8, but generally not with dexedrine (though I have mixed them to some degree).

I also have similar concerns with it. Despite having continued to consume it regularly (along with my girlfriend, who consumes less, perhaps 1 to 2 per day, 5 to 6 days a week), I still worry about the unclear long-term effects (like pulmonary hypertension, or possible agonism 5-HT2B and associated heart valve damage, etc.). The problem is, the countries where clobenzorex is used (like Mexico) are terrible at connecting the dots if in fact there is a clear association with clobenzorex and negative health outcomes (there have been a few cases reports but other than that very little data). My hope is that it's no more toxic than amphetamine, but it remains unknown.

And yes, similar to you, my most recent order of clobenzorex is in limbo, so I'm not sure what the issue is. If it were to become unavailable, that would suck (it would mean that I'd need to make my dexedrine script last a full month), but it would probably impact my girlfriend more since she doesn't have a dexedrine script to fall back on. That said, there was once a supply issue with this stuff, where it was temporarily unavailable, so perhaps that's the case right now (I imagine we get it from the same place). But perhaps in the long run it would be a good thing if it were to become unavailable. Even if clobenzorex isn't any more toxic than dextroamphetamine, it's probably not healthy for us to be using these stimulants as heavily as we are. In theory, our ADHD scripts should suffice. That said, as long as it remains available, I'm sure I'll keep buying it.